GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Feb 13, 2007 9:59:21 GMT -5
consequences of THE BUMP 1. beilein jersey grab ---> 2. ewing hand slap ---> 3. causes a ruckus ---> 4. georgetown scoring drought 5. 2 ticky tack fouls on hibbert as the refs try to regain control sending him to the bench 6. negative news coverage of hoyas which detracts from our victory and the image jtiii has worked so hard to build 7. we win by only 18 instead of 30+, adding to the bad taste in the pollsters mouth from seeing all the negative coverage from #6, will this cost us 1 or 2 spots in the polls just because the pollsters are human? theres got to be a better way to send a message and accomplish the same ends. either that, or lets invade iraq again. now im really going to bed. You left out the fact that it was 48-24 when this happened...eight minutes later it was 67-37. The "scoring drought" you mention had us going up by 30 eight minutes after all this happened. So how exactly do you blame us only winning by 18 on this particular incident? It weaves perfectly into his previous quote: "i cant argue the stats as i dont feel like looking them up. but i bet those stats understate the problem given that they include a ton of end of game heaves as teams tried to catch up. if you were to look at our 3pt defense in the 1st half, i think it would tell a far different story. a number of teams (cincy, sju, louisville) were on fire against us from 3 when they werent desperation shots. im seriously. " Well WVU finished 9-26 split this way: 3-18 until garbage time 6-8 after the game was long since over. It must have been more aggressive shooting and not garbage time defense...seriously.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Feb 13, 2007 10:01:58 GMT -5
I didn't think it was that big a deal on either side. I agree that PEjr should have "swept the leg, Johnnie" on a subsequent play to send a message rather then what he did. Beilein's reaction was not that big a deal. He should go to the refs but so what. Bottom line is they were frustrated about getting wiped off the court and Alexander made an overly aggressive play that could have hurt JW. The follow up by Ewing was stupid when he got the tech. BTW, the refs were a little charge happy last night but it was pretty even.
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DrumsGoBang
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Post by DrumsGoBang on Feb 13, 2007 10:14:59 GMT -5
Did anyone notice how Beilein was talking to JTIII and the refs after that play and started to touch JT III on the back. Almost like a man-hug. JTIII was not liking the physical contact.
Also earlier in the game, Beilein should have gotten a T for yelling at the refs for nothing.
Final Thought: Worst Hoya Rival Reel ever. I guess you can't make fun of WV without the whole state getting upset deleted
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Post by Coast2CoastHoya on Feb 13, 2007 10:16:49 GMT -5
The refs made the right call. What happened is part of basketball. Tempers flared, but the actual physiciality of the reactions by both Pat and BeeLine did not rise to the level of an egregious offense. Let's not blow this out of proportion.
Frankly, I (and the Hoyas around me, and the WVU guy in the box behind me) all thought that the worst part of that exchange was Alexander's clip on Jon that the refs didn't see. Pat's reaction was emotional and maybe dumb, but he was also backing up his PG. BeeLine was a little out of line, but neither one of them was trying to hurt or being reckless about hurting someone -- it could be argued that Alexander was. But reasonable people can disagree. The Duke fan to my left thought Jon was "ball guarding" -- aparently that's bad in the ACC(?), but I thought that's what guards are supposed to do.
All that said, an opposing coach should never touch a player except in the most necessary circumstance (i.e. to protect the safety of another). This was not such a case. Either way, no T's was the right call. Like CHH just said, other than a lot of charging calls and a couple non-calls, the refs called a fine game.
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HoyaSox04
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Post by HoyaSox04 on Feb 13, 2007 10:23:56 GMT -5
I've somehow decided to read through this entire thread this morning, and I would now like to petition the board to give me that 45 minutes of my life back.
I just cant fathom how this is being made out to be this earth-shattering moment for our Hoyas. PEJ gets mountains of respect from me, and Beilein was out of line in touching him, but seemed sincere in his apology to JT3.
End of story.
Unsubscribe.
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VelvetElvis
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pka MrPathetic
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Post by VelvetElvis on Feb 13, 2007 10:25:23 GMT -5
burn
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HealyHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Victory!!!
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Post by HealyHoya on Feb 13, 2007 10:39:38 GMT -5
Ewing's play just isn't that big of a deal...
This board and thread reads like he tore off his jersey, threw it at Bee Line, dove into the WVU bench and started throwing haymakers...and, once he was done, refused to share ANY of his milkshake with the Mountaineers...
I've seen Ewing, Sr., Deke, 'Zo, Reggie and countless other Hoyas poke, punch, elbow, kick, claw and scratch much, much, much worse than anything Ewing, Jr. did out there last night...
It's a team. They stand up for each other. It happens all the time.
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Post by IlladelpHoya on Feb 13, 2007 11:07:24 GMT -5
I love that on these boards, you can't say pi$$ed, but pussified gets through without a problem.
JTIII lit into Patrick on the sidelines after the technical. I was surprised coach let him get back into the game during garbage time. I love PEJr ... one thing I don't want to see is him getting into situations where he has to come out of the game. Passion is great, but Ewing has too much talent to waste it on the bench. I guess it's fine when you're up 20 against a bunch of zeroes from WVU, but the only statement I want to make against Pitt is the one that keeps us in 1st place in the Big East. I'd rather PEJr. stand up for his players and make a statement while the clock is moving. Big block, huge dunk, hard foul ... stuff like that.
The Beilein/Ewing thing is getting a lot of attention, but I noticed something else during the game too ... what was it?? ... oh, yeah.
We are just like Homer Simpson's thesauras .... really, really, really ... good.
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Post by utraquehoya on Feb 13, 2007 11:13:50 GMT -5
I don't want to make a big deal about what Ewing did; I'm just surprised that people are defending the act. It was a stupid act. Minor, yes; unsurprising given the emotions of the game, yes. So, yes, it's not a big deal. But, dumb, also yes. He didn't accomplish anything by it. A lot of people here read it as an act of team loyality, protecting one's own, sending a signal, etc.
I'm all for protecting Hoyas, on court and off, but I doubt that Ewing accomplished anything in the way of defending Jon Wallace, even on a symbolic level.
So, I guess I'm with the minority on this board: it was a dumb act that served no good purpose.
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theexorcist
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Post by theexorcist on Feb 13, 2007 11:16:55 GMT -5
A few more clarifications...
1. I still disagree with Beilein's "it takes a village". Coaches really shouldn't be part of any altercations on the court. There is a difference between players and coaches.
2. I actually think that Jessie is the most emotional player on the team (this may simply because he's on the court more). Most of this is good emotion on defense - aggressive defending. Some of this emotion hurts on offense when he tries a bad shot rather than pass it out.
3. The hit wasn't because of PE Jr or who he is as a player. I could see most any of our players - or basically any player on any team at any level - doing this, especially as WVU was throwing some hard fouls. That doesn't mean that retaliating is best - especially when you get suspended for the game. It's a teaching moment - learn that, even when your opponents are trying to rile you up, keeping your cool is better in the long run.
4. The entire situation caused a minor WVU run. Once again, teaching moment - GU calmed down and adjusted.
5. If you think that the "Fear is Next" thing refers to retaliation, you're wrong. Beilein talked about WVU not being on Georgetown's level.
Imagine walking into a hostile arena (which Verizon is - slowly - becoming). Imagine knowing that every shot will be contested (Beilein mentioned this, too). Imagine knowing that the defense and offense will be well-executed. Imagine knowing that you're playing a team that's toyed with two consecutive top 25 teams. Imagine knowing that, since Georgetown's ranked, Sportscenter is going to show the highlights - and that they keep on having highlights where Georgetown shreds teams.
THAT is the fear.
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Post by theEDGEfactor on Feb 13, 2007 11:24:35 GMT -5
i for one was kind of proud of patrick. this team needs some energy, and he brings it. he was being a true team player, standing up for wallace after the slide into the benches just shortly earlier. personally, thanks pe2, from this accident, we know you have your teammates backs.
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YB
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by YB on Feb 13, 2007 11:29:31 GMT -5
The incident was not that big a deal. I like that PE2 stood up for his teammate; I disliked that Bee-lame tried to punish PE2 for it. It looked like both lost their cool, but for the Coach to do so is worse, IMHO.
On the topic of WVU and their very classless fans... whatever. I was in a suite (first time) last night. Near the WVU fans. There were quite a few really bad ones- some of my colleagues had to shield their kids' ears from these classless WVU bumpkins. And not everyone in WV is a redneck. WV is the 3rd most beautiful state in the country, with some very nice and decent people. But many of WVU's fans are real losers, classless drunks that really bring shame to their state and school. And they should know that.
WV Hoya, it's not a reflection on you. But you have to admit, a lot of the WVU fans really are rednecks in the worst sense.
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EasyEd
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by EasyEd on Feb 13, 2007 11:30:09 GMT -5
I also have waisted 45 minutes of my life reading the 10 pages of this thread. I offer two new things: (1) I don't have a replay so I'm not sure of this but I think it's questionable that the foul on Wallace occurred in what would have been a backcourt violation. When it happened I was unsure if WVU hadn't touched the ball as it headed backcourt. Maybe someone can revisit it. (2) I think Ewing's shove was uncalled for and JTIII should have immediately taken him out of the game to cool off, thereby preventing further problems (like the T on Ewing).
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PopeJohn2
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Post by PopeJohn2 on Feb 13, 2007 11:38:30 GMT -5
You left out the fact that it was 48-24 when this happened...eight minutes later it was 67-37. The "scoring drought" you mention had us going up by 30 eight minutes after all this happened. So how exactly do you blame us only winning by 18 on this particular incident? It weaves perfectly into his previous quote: "i cant argue the stats as i dont feel like looking them up. but i bet those stats understate the problem given that they include a ton of end of game heaves as teams tried to catch up. if you were to look at our 3pt defense in the 1st half, i think it would tell a far different story. a number of teams (cincy, sju, louisville) were on fire against us from 3 when they werent desperation shots. im seriously. " Well WVU finished 9-26 split this way: 3-18 until garbage time 6-8 after the game was long since over. It must have been more aggressive shooting and not garbage time defense...seriously. sheesh. if you really want me to back up my point, try to follow along. facts: halftime score 37-20 time of The Bump around ~16 min mark of 2nd half score at the time of The Bump 48-24 hibbert usually plays majority of 2nd half unless there foul trouble hibbert benched with 3 fouls at 14:23 mark of 2nd half hibbert returns off the bench ~ 10 minute mark of 2nd half score when hibbert is benched 48-24 score when hibbert returns 52-30 Garbage Time ~ 4 minute mark of 2nd half score at start of Garbage Time 67-40 so when hibbert was in the game in the 2nd half pre-The Bump Distraction, the hoyas scored 11 points in 4 minutes. wvu score 4 points in those 4 minutes. in the 4.5 minutes hibbert sat, the hoyas scored 4 points. wvu scored 6 points. so with hibbert out, the hoyas score at ~32% of the rate as with him in. and they allow ~1.33x as many points. if you extrapolate this ROUGH rates of points scored and points allowed for the entire ~12 minutes that were remaining before Garbage Time, the score at Garbage time would have been around 81-38, a lead of 43 points. instead it was 67-40, a lead of 23 points. assuming the same scoring in garbage time, the final score would have been 85-51, a 34 point victory. yes of course i know this makes a lot of assumptions, but what is irrefuatable is that The Bump really stahled our offense for 5 minutes. If you were watching the game you would have felt the same thing without having to look at the stats. We were scoring at will and wvu could barely hit the side of a barn. And at the time of The Bump, wvu was tired and totally demoralized. The Bump pumped adrenaline into their systems and they got a boost. If anything, without The Bump, we probably could have increased the rate of our scoring and decreased the rate of theirs if we wanted so the difference would have been even huger. But im sure given the type of guy JTIII is, he would have started garbage time a lot sooner. He is such a good coach. Im glad to hear he was not happy with ewing and let him know as much. even though it may not seem like a big deal to some boaders here, it is. discipline is key, maybe even more important than talent. green, hibbert and wallace were not the most talented players out of high school, but with the right coach and discipline, are now awesome. discipline problems can spread across a team if not addressed firmly and immediately. if coach hadnt been upset, other guys on the team might start emulating bad habits. coach has been been working with ewing on this all year and he has come a long long way. just more work to do. i think we will see a different ewing emerge out of all of this. that is the silver lining. IM SERIOUSLY!
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Post by Coast2CoastHoya on Feb 13, 2007 11:53:27 GMT -5
I'm kinda surprised there are 10 pages on this topic (even though I posted in it ... oh well), when our team is performing at the highest levels of the season, we're on an 8 game winning streak, we have 8 big east wins out of 9 in double digits (when was the last time that happened?), every member of our rotation has improved, III has once again shown his teaching ability, and -- above all else -- the coaching staff will deal with it.
Let's put this one to bed and move on.
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PopeJohn2
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by PopeJohn2 on Feb 13, 2007 11:56:07 GMT -5
I'm kinda surprised there are 10 pages on this topic (even though I posted in it ... oh well), when our team is performing at the highest levels of the season, we're on an 8 game winning streak, we have 8 big east wins out of 9 in double digits (when was the last time that happened?), every member of our rotation has improved, III has once again shown his teaching ability, and -- above all else -- the coaching staff will deal with it. Let's put this one to bed and move on. if people stop taking swipes at me ill be happy to keep my pie hole shut.
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by guru on Feb 13, 2007 11:58:40 GMT -5
Someone has to say it, so I will.
Pope. Shut up.
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HoyaSox04
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by HoyaSox04 on Feb 13, 2007 12:05:46 GMT -5
I'm kinda surprised there are 10 pages on this topic (even though I posted in it ... oh well), when our team is performing at the highest levels of the season, we're on an 8 game winning streak, we have 8 big east wins out of 9 in double digits (when was the last time that happened?), every member of our rotation has improved, III has once again shown his teaching ability, and -- above all else -- the coaching staff will deal with it. Let's put this one to bed and move on. I agree, 110%. And let's face it - the most egregious misplay on anyone's part last night was Coast2Coast not winning the Hoya Dance Contest after emulating the Hulkster and having the entire student section cheering for him. Someone needs to look into that, for sure.
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RDF
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Post by RDF on Feb 13, 2007 12:05:55 GMT -5
This is unreal--did some of you people actually WATCH Hoya/Big East basketball prior to this decade? If you did, last night's "atrocity" would rate as a love tap compared to what used to happen. It's not a big deal. I view issue as something that happens and some things I feel come out of the "incident"
1. Joe Alexander made a mistake and was playing hard basketball--it wasn't a smart play in terms of WVU perspective, but Alexander has an edge to his game and I respect him as a player--very talented/tough kid. He didn't punk out after the nudge PE JR gave him-he threw down on Jeff and gave a glance to Jeff after. He plays hard and is going to be a very good player in the league.
2. Beilein seemed a bit on edge last night--far before the incident happened. I have no idea why either--he's usually very much in control but last night he was going nuts over some really odd things--and it might have just caused him to overreact last night. Either way--great coach, shouldn't have touched PE JR, but seemed to be genuine in his remorse after he did grab Pat and he was just trying to tell Pat that he was taking care of it and not to do that to his player--defending his guy. From his perspective he was upset that Alexander gave up possession and wasn't initially thinking of what happened to Wallace.
3. PE JR did exactly what he is known to do--whether it was ill timed or not--teammates appreciate this much more then fans ever realize. Was timing right? No. Was it worse thing ever as some people think? HELL NO!
4. Whether some fans want to acknowledge it or not, PE JR and Summers have brought their energy/attitude to this team and it's what has made this a better team. For all of the talk of PE not being able to "control his emotions"--he sparked team in their comeback at Pitt to make game respectable, he provides a lift and Summers has same kind of swagger. It's carried over to Jeff's play as well. PE and DaJuan are always getting in Jeff's face after a big play/dead ball/timeout and letting him know about it in a positive way. They are emotional players and why try to be something they aren't? It's not like Hoyas are taunting people after every play or something? I LOVE the attitude and it's what has taken this team up a level this year--and hope it is staple of this program. You point out this one incident, but most of Pat and DaJuan's attitude is getting their teammates fired up and not getting in face of opposing team. The thing I'm loving about GU hoops now is when someone on our team goes down--notice how everyone SPRINTS to go help their teammate up? Notice how after Wallace's board/putback, he was immediately picked up by a teammate and they sprinted back? That is something this program has lacked for a LONG time and it's about time we got this back? That is Hoya Basketball--TEAM oriented, TOUGH, and RELENTLESS--no matter who is on court.
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Feb 13, 2007 12:12:41 GMT -5
RDF absolutely correct. Hoya Paranoia is an honorific term from the 1980s not something to shrink from. A big part of the Georgetown's history and tradition.
Given their handshake post-game, Beilein and Ewing have put it behind them. So should everyone else .
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