edstimes
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 186
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Post by edstimes on Feb 25, 2007 23:25:58 GMT -5
I couldn't agree more with the title of the thread. I couldn't agree less with the reason it was posted at the time. People get way too into short-term results. Compare the early season results of Esh's last year to the early season results of this year. Going by the short-sightedness expressed in this thread, you'd come to the conclusion that Esherick had the better team, and since (according to the topic starter) a team is a reflection of its coach, Esherick was a better coach than JTIII. Agreed. And, as we all know, Esherick is vastly inferior to JT III.
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Feb 26, 2007 0:28:31 GMT -5
I couldn't agree more with the title of the thread. I couldn't agree less with the reason it was posted at the time. People get way too into short-term results. Compare the early season results of Esh's last year to the early season results of this year. Going by the short-sightedness expressed in this thread, you'd come to the conclusion that Esherick had the better team, and since (according to the topic starter) a team is a reflection of its coach, Esherick was a better coach than JTIII. Agreed. And, as we all know, Esherick is vastly inferior to JT III. Whatever, that was clearly not your opinion earlier this year. But that's reflective of the fact that fans are fickle - especially the ones who post on message boards (its a rather self-selecting group from what I can tell ...) - if those people want to change their minds now and jump on the bandwagon that's cool with me. Also, I love how this year has been such a throwback to Hoya Paranoia part I - we freak out everytime we lose, we are generally hated by other teams in the Big East (with the slight difference that only some of the fans who cheer against us will admit that calling us "thugs" and "criminals" has something to do with the color of skin of most of our players and coaches), and we are on top of the Big East. Addressing your point more generally ed - yes III is a better coach in terms of talent development, recruiting, late game coaching, offensive strategy, half-time adjustments, time out management and pretty much anyother facet of the game you want to name - that's not a knock on Esh - that's a comment on how good III is as a coach and how lucky we are to have him in our program.
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
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Post by RDF on Feb 26, 2007 1:43:32 GMT -5
RDF is a great Hoya fan, but those posts were absurd and definitely tainted his credibility. So glad he was so wrong Well, I guess we can go back many times and throw stuff in people's face, but I still stand by much of what was said and I credit the Staff/Players for proving me wrong on other points--but at that point--I stick by what I was seeing. I still feel that as good as this year's team is, that next year's team has potential to be far superior--you are adding 2 McDonald's All Americans to the Backcourt--and my post was prior to the announcement of the team--which most assumed Austin would make but many doubted Chris would make. They will take this team up another level and only make it stronger. If Jeff Green sticks around--what about next year's team is not stronger overall? I am pleased to death with this year's team and am not looking ahead, but don't see where that comment has been proven wrong? We'll see. I think Hoyas could improve on this year's record next year and I LOVE how this year's team has come along and possibilities, so let's deal with the now and worry about next year--then. As far as my comments on the team at the time, I will stand by the fact this team needed to: 1. Have players play on instinct and know when to take over the game--that has happened--at that point--it hadn't. 2. Recognize the strength of the team and go to it/attack opposing teams using the strength--which MANY other fans also thought at time and rightfully so. 3. Get more aggressive--which I've stated numerous times during the year--and since the improvement has been key to the improvement. Aggression/passion on the court. Many laughed at the posts I was making--but since the team has gotten some attitude and aggression--it's taken off to another level. Pops even mentioned it--the guys have to get after it and not react--just get after it. It's gotten better, but has room for more improvement. 4. Wallace has been beyond what I expected. He's proved me wrong. I hope he continues to do so as well. His play in First Half of Pitt game was as important as Jeff's finish down the stretch. He's expanded his game and it's something Jersey Hoya had mentioned to me about his mid range/drive/floater game in Summer League. Said Jon was working on it and had improved a great deal--so kudos to Jersey and others who saw it. 5. To be honest--I think I deserve more heat for criticizing Roy's defense back a few weeks ago--the past 2 games--he's done some things I didn't know if he'd ever pick up while a Hoya and it's a credit to him--he's reacting on instinct as a trailer on defense and altering/swatting shots and getting some rebounds out of his "area" which he was unable to do the previous seasons. My passion is why I'm a fan--and after a miserable Duke game, I was irritated beyond belief. Can't really say "game" because I liked the First Half--thought team played good ball and in 2nd was thinking far too much. I just hate to see guys thinking about sets, plays, and not playing ball and from reading III's comments he seems to agree. "Told the guys to JUST RELAX and PLAY". This comes from Saturday's game against Pitt--it's what the sport is about and what makes for great basketball no matter what style of play you are trying to utilize. Realize that mistakes/learning periods will be needed for any team as you always are getting new players/finding a rhythm, but passing up open, quality shots, and not utilizing your bigs or having your best players play with aggression isn't something I enjoy watching and if you look at when it was posted, I'll stand by it. Thank goodness for III/Coaching Staff and Players for getting things done on court and I look forward to seeing how far they can take it this year and in future. If it means having to go back to days when I was critical and having people throw something in my face--so be it--as long as the team is playing as well as possible, and improving, I'll be supportive. If they aren't--this is the place to vent for all of us--and that doesn't mean you just come to praise--sometimes you need to let off some steam. I just tend to do it a bit more often then others.
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edstimes
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 186
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Post by edstimes on Feb 26, 2007 8:07:49 GMT -5
Agreed. And, as we all know, Esherick is vastly inferior to JT III. Whatever, that was clearly not your opinion earlier this year. But that's reflective of the fact that fans are fickle - especially the ones who post on message boards (its a rather self-selecting group from what I can tell ...) - if those people want to change their minds now and jump on the bandwagon that's cool with me. Also, I love how this year has been such a throwback to Hoya Paranoia part I - we freak out everytime we lose, we are generally hated by other teams in the Big East (with the slight difference that only some of the fans who cheer against us will admit that calling us "thugs" and "criminals" has something to do with the color of skin of most of our players and coaches), and we are on top of the Big East. Addressing your point more generally ed - yes III is a better coach in terms of talent development, recruiting, late game coaching, offensive strategy, half-time adjustments, time out management and pretty much anyother facet of the game you want to name - that's not a knock on Esh - that's a comment on how good III is as a coach and how lucky we are to have him in our program. That was not my opinion earlier this year? No one on this board, with the possible exception of PBR, has more impeccable and consistent anti-Esherick credentials than me **
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hoyainspirit
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
When life puts that voodoo on me, music is my gris-gris.
Posts: 8,398
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Post by hoyainspirit on Feb 26, 2007 8:33:36 GMT -5
^^^ How about YB? He organized the "Fire Esh" rally! ;D
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,652
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Post by guru on Feb 26, 2007 8:34:14 GMT -5
Fair enough, RDF. I'll stop bringing up your early season analysis. I guess I was lucky that I was away for my anniversary for the Duke game and so was spared watching it. I probably would have been just as (well nearly as) despondent as you were. The team looks great now, and as for next year's team being better, well, we are in the middle of an incredible, unprecented win streak that will not likely be duplicated. In any case, the future looks bright indeed, and the Duke game seems like a long, long, long time ago!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Feb 26, 2007 9:50:58 GMT -5
RDF is a great Hoya fan, but those posts were absurd and definitely tainted his credibility. So glad he was so wrong Well, I guess we can go back many times and throw stuff in people's face, but I still stand by much of what was said and I credit the Staff/Players for proving me wrong on other points--but at that point--I stick by what I was seeing. I still feel that as good as this year's team is, that next year's team has potential to be far superior--you are adding 2 McDonald's All Americans to the Backcourt--and my post was prior to the announcement of the team--which most assumed Austin would make but many doubted Chris would make. They will take this team up another level and only make it stronger. If Jeff Green sticks around--what about next year's team is not stronger overall? I am pleased to death with this year's team and am not looking ahead, but don't see where that comment has been proven wrong? We'll see. I think Hoyas could improve on this year's record next year and I LOVE how this year's team has come along and possibilities, so let's deal with the now and worry about next year--then. As far as my comments on the team at the time, I will stand by the fact this team needed to: 1. Have players play on instinct and know when to take over the game--that has happened--at that point--it hadn't. 2. Recognize the strength of the team and go to it/attack opposing teams using the strength--which MANY other fans also thought at time and rightfully so. 3. Get more aggressive--which I've stated numerous times during the year--and since the improvement has been key to the improvement. Aggression/passion on the court. Many laughed at the posts I was making--but since the team has gotten some attitude and aggression--it's taken off to another level. Pops even mentioned it--the guys have to get after it and not react--just get after it. It's gotten better, but has room for more improvement. 4. Wallace has been beyond what I expected. He's proved me wrong. I hope he continues to do so as well. His play in First Half of Pitt game was as important as Jeff's finish down the stretch. He's expanded his game and it's something Jersey Hoya had mentioned to me about his mid range/drive/floater game in Summer League. Said Jon was working on it and had improved a great deal--so kudos to Jersey and others who saw it. 5. To be honest--I think I deserve more heat for criticizing Roy's defense back a few weeks ago--the past 2 games--he's done some things I didn't know if he'd ever pick up while a Hoya and it's a credit to him--he's reacting on instinct as a trailer on defense and altering/swatting shots and getting some rebounds out of his "area" which he was unable to do the previous seasons. My passion is why I'm a fan--and after a miserable Duke game, I was irritated beyond belief. Can't really say "game" because I liked the First Half--thought team played good ball and in 2nd was thinking far too much. I just hate to see guys thinking about sets, plays, and not playing ball and from reading III's comments he seems to agree. "Told the guys to JUST RELAX and PLAY". This comes from Saturday's game against Pitt--it's what the sport is about and what makes for great basketball no matter what style of play you are trying to utilize. Realize that mistakes/learning periods will be needed for any team as you always are getting new players/finding a rhythm, but passing up open, quality shots, and not utilizing your bigs or having your best players play with aggression isn't something I enjoy watching and if you look at when it was posted, I'll stand by it. Thank goodness for III/Coaching Staff and Players for getting things done on court and I look forward to seeing how far they can take it this year and in future. If it means having to go back to days when I was critical and having people throw something in my face--so be it--as long as the team is playing as well as possible, and improving, I'll be supportive. If they aren't--this is the place to vent for all of us--and that doesn't mean you just come to praise--sometimes you need to let off some steam. I just tend to do it a bit more often then others. Hi!! I don't think you have to apologize for anything. If you post a lot and your posts are extensive, some of your points are going to be incorrect. I feel that most of your points were correct back then and are still correct. Of course some were wrong and you have acknowledged that. I can still remember how majority of this board, did NOT want JT3 as the Georgetown Coach 3 years ago. On the other hand, I am "rarely" wrong. But then again, I rarely post.
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