Oh My!
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 938
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Post by Oh My! on Nov 30, 2006 13:02:37 GMT -5
Some of you guys don't get it--we'll see how this team does and when Wright/Freeman come next year and you can tell me which team is better--I've said it, will say it, and know it--next year's team will be far superior to this year's and III knows it. Why do you think the man has told everyone that would listen "Have you seen our guards?" and why did he say that? It was in response to the lofty status in preseason and hype we were getting. What position did he aggressively recruit? Freeman, Wright, Wattad, and Clark is one of our '08 commits. I'm sorry but that speaks more volumes then any HS stats. Scoring is different than shooting--and Wright, Freeman, Wattad can SHOOT. Freeman plays on a team that is sending numerous guys to D1 and is a CHAMPIONSHIP TEAM. Chris Wright led a team of numerous stars to 3 Championships--against his peer group--which will also be playing at the D1 level, and he's a guy who can SHOOT THE BALL--that is skill that Sapp--who is a scorer and guy I'm very fond of as a player--isn't nearly as good at. Rivers is a Bobby Winston style of guard--and that is important, but it's not a help to this team-he's a shaky shooter. Summers played in post on his HS team. Spann is someone who I think could help--but obviously he's not earned time because III doesn't play him. Crawford is sick/recovering--maybe he'll help but until he does, I can't count on him. Some of you guys act like this team is loaded--and it has more talent then past, but basketball is easiest sport to spot talent and find what is needed/missing--it's a SKILL sport and we lack a major skill that is required on this team that is championship caliber--perimeter shooting. I think you might see a Wright, Freeman, Sapp backcourt or Wallace, Wright, Freeman backcourt with two bigs at a lot of times simply to free up bigs down low and give team spacing. The threat of someone's ability to shoot is as important as being able to shoot--if the other team doesn't care if you shoot, then you struggle to score-ala Joey Brown era, and Pops teams--which this team resembles more in personnel. The mention of Derek Fisher playing for Lakers in NBA is just so silly I'll reply with this--that is the NBA--BEST PLAYERS IN WORLD and did you know FISHER LED COUNTRY IN SCORING HIS SENIOR YEAR and was a great outside shooter for Lakers? He opened court up and hit numerous shots when open--which is the threat you need--it's not about talent of players overall, it's about roles/skill they bring and Wright/Freeman can shoot the ball--if you don't know this by now, you will. I'm not saying they can help this year, I'm saying this team needs to tweak it's approach to fit what the current roster CAN DO--which is play a different style of game then what we've seen in III's tenure and will see in future when we have shooters. I don't disagree with ALL of your points. I, too, think next year's TEAM will be better; I'm just saying there is no guarantee. Many thought this year's team would be better than last year's, but that notion has proven questionable at best. As for Summers in HS, he was FAR from a post player. In the 4-5 games I saw of him at McDonough, he was much more of a wing player, averaging 8-10 3-pt attempts per game. Maybe he idolized Kevin Pittsnogle?
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,899
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 30, 2006 13:44:18 GMT -5
Some of you guys don't get it--we'll see how this team does and when Wright/Freeman come next year and you can tell me which team is better--I've said it, will say it, and know it--next year's team will be far superior to this year's and III knows it. Why do you think the man has told everyone that would listen "Have you seen our guards?" and why did he say that? It was in response to the lofty status in preseason and hype we were getting. What position did he aggressively recruit? Freeman, Wright, Wattad, and Clark is one of our '08 commits. I'm sorry but that speaks more volumes then any HS stats. Scoring is different than shooting--and Wright, Freeman, Wattad can SHOOT. Freeman plays on a team that is sending numerous guys to D1 and is a CHAMPIONSHIP TEAM. Chris Wright led a team of numerous stars to 3 Championships--against his peer group--which will also be playing at the D1 level, and he's a guy who can SHOOT THE BALL--that is skill that Sapp--who is a scorer and guy I'm very fond of as a player--isn't nearly as good at. Rivers is a Bobby Winston style of guard--and that is important, but it's not a help to this team-he's a shaky shooter. Summers played in post on his HS team. Spann is someone who I think could help--but obviously he's not earned time because III doesn't play him. Crawford is sick/recovering--maybe he'll help but until he does, I can't count on him. Some of you guys act like this team is loaded--and it has more talent then past, but basketball is easiest sport to spot talent and find what is needed/missing--it's a SKILL sport and we lack a major skill that is required on this team that is championship caliber--perimeter shooting. I think you might see a Wright, Freeman, Sapp backcourt or Wallace, Wright, Freeman backcourt with two bigs at a lot of times simply to free up bigs down low and give team spacing. The threat of someone's ability to shoot is as important as being able to shoot--if the other team doesn't care if you shoot, then you struggle to score-ala Joey Brown era, and Pops teams--which this team resembles more in personnel. The mention of Derek Fisher playing for Lakers in NBA is just so silly I'll reply with this--that is the NBA--BEST PLAYERS IN WORLD and did you know FISHER LED COUNTRY IN SCORING HIS SENIOR YEAR and was a great outside shooter for Lakers? He opened court up and hit numerous shots when open--which is the threat you need--it's not about talent of players overall, it's about roles/skill they bring and Wright/Freeman can shoot the ball--if you don't know this by now, you will. I'm not saying they can help this year, I'm saying this team needs to tweak it's approach to fit what the current roster CAN DO--which is play a different style of game then what we've seen in III's tenure and will see in future when we have shooters. The idea that we lost to Oregon because of perimeter shooting is a joke. Freeman and Wright will help next year. But you are acting as if this CANNOT perform better than it did last night because we don't have great perimeter shooters. This team's strength failed them. End of story.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,899
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 30, 2006 13:53:23 GMT -5
Once again, it's mindblowing how you can fail to see the point of the post. lol this is funny. Trent Dilfer played on a team with arguably the best defensive unit ever. Umm, that was my point. If Baltimore had given up 55 points in the Super Bowl, would you have blamed Trent Dilfer? No, that team won and lost on its defense and it is silly to ask Dilfer to win a shoot out. Jeff and Roy are our Ed Reed and Ray Lewis. Blaming our perimeter play when they fail is stupid. Again, my point. If Kobe and Shaq went 1-26, and LA lost, and Derek Fisher only scored 10, would you blame Fisher for losing the NBA Finals? Sure, he's less talented, but the stars wet the bed. Again, my point. If Melo and Co. had played poorly, would you have blamed Duany? My point is that plenty of championship teams -- teams better in their sports than Georgetown is now -- won lots of games despite being weak at key positions because their strengths made up for them.
Moreso, to blame the weakness when the strength fails is silly and pointless.Played pretty well, actually. Jon was very good, and Marc played well as well. If Jeff and Roy had shown, we'd have won. We're better shooters than you think. But no, it isn't likely to change. That still doesn't mean we should lose every game. It means our strengths need to play well and carry us.Better on that night. Not more talented. We laid an egg effort-wise in both games. We lost to inferior teams. Who's talking about these teams? I'm just saying we're better than ODU and particularly Oregon, who will be at best be a bubble team. Every team is flawed. If Georgetown's players put forward some effort (not get outrebounded, actually take a shot), we'd look a lot better. There is definite work to do. How does this disagree with anything I said. You're the one that seems to say that our guards are so weak we can't beat Oregon.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,899
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 30, 2006 14:01:19 GMT -5
RDF,
To respond to two particular points:
My point in highlighting Fisher or the other players was to simply say that even Championship teams are flawed. No team is perfect.
Every team requires that their strengths make up for their weaknesses.
Which is why I find the focus on guardplay after this game -- a game you didn't watch -- maddening.
Jon and Marc played well. Our strength -- our Kobe and Shaq, our Ray Lewis, our whatever you want to say -- played like junk.
Austin and Chris will help. But a team without their talent at guard could have easily beaten Oregon yesterday if its froncourt shows up.
What do you suggest?
-We got the ball to Roy down low a lot. He failed to deliver. -We got the ball to Jeff a lot. He seemed uninterested in even trying to deliver. -Only Marc seemed interested in fast breaking. The rest lolly-gagged up court. -We should be great at rebounding, but no one really seemed into it. -Jon did a fine job of penetrating, but no one moved when he did -- no cuts to the basket with him or movement to an open spot.
Your solution seems to be to run, run, run. Well, to do that, the team needs to a) want to run and b) defensive rebound. They were interested in doing neither yesterday.
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Oh My!
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 938
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Post by Oh My! on Nov 30, 2006 15:38:40 GMT -5
Excellent concise post.
Part 2 of the post only.
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zxhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,718
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Post by zxhoya on Nov 30, 2006 15:58:13 GMT -5
The theme of this post is disturbing. AGREED! Calm down everyone. It takes time to build a program and a lot of building was needed. We have a lot of young players who need time to develop and learn a complicated offense. There's no other coach I would rather have than JTIII! You cant recruit a team in 1 season. Look at the players coming in next year, great perimeter players who will blend in well with existing players who will have a year under thier belt. Everyone take a pill and calm down. Patience is required.
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lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
Posts: 17,443
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Post by lichoya68 on Dec 1, 2006 23:54:53 GMT -5
leave coach alone and i agree we need to MOVE cut and run and hustle especially on offense and need to rebound rebound rebound go hoyas lets get er moving NOW BEAT DUKE ;D
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Dec 2, 2006 9:24:32 GMT -5
JTIII's attitude in not showing up his players and being a cerebral coach has some effect on his players. I think that is one of the reasons that Green fits so well into his system - he is JTIII's ideal player because he is so cerebral and unselfish. These things are also Jeff's biggest downfall when not managed right - he can become to cerebral - thinking things through too much and become tenative when he's playing against inferior competition - I'm sorry Jeff should have 25 against Aaron Brooks any day - not 2 points. Jeff can also be too much of a team player and this really shows up when Jeff lacks confidence - a number of times he passed up the opportunity to drive or take someone off the dribble and shoot his jump shot and just kicked the ball out for us to run the offense again - that's being too unselfish. If he had hit his first two shots like he did against Vandy this year that wouldn't happen.
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MassHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,786
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Post by MassHoya on Dec 2, 2006 11:01:09 GMT -5
Since JT III has come on board, I wonder how much ink and how much space on this board (and perhaps how much emphasis by the staff) has been devoted to the Princetown Offense vs. defense? We need some old school Hoya defense from this point forward for the rest of the season, with no let ups, along with improved execution on O.
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RDF
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 8,835
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Post by RDF on Dec 2, 2006 11:08:56 GMT -5
Being "Cerebral" on a basketball court doesn't require thinking--it's an instinctual/reactionary thing. Great players don't think, they do what comes natural. The "thinking/learning" aspect should come at Practice--otherwise, go out and play and make plays--it's a game most of these young men have played all of their lives and know how to play--quit thinking and start PLAYING BALL!
As for the "need for old school Hoya defense"--you can't do that when you lack foot speed at certain positions--you will get beat off dribble, then bigs come over to help and they pick up fouls or leave someone open for easy hoop-for all of Roy's talents, lateral quickness is not one of them and he can be exploited. I'd rather see Hoyas use some Cuse defense--and zone--they have size and smart enough players, not to mention if you zone with Sapp/Rivers--you have two excellent defensive guards who are strong in anticipating/playing passing lanes. Wallace for all of his leadership, lacks footspeed and is abused on defensive end, so he's got more of a shot in a zone as well.
We'll get to see what happens tonight, but that is why III is where he is and I'm a fan--so hopefully we'll see him come up with answers.
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Post by StPetersburgHoya (Inactive) on Dec 2, 2006 13:02:44 GMT -5
As for the "need for old school Hoya defense"--you can't do that when you lack foot speed at certain positions--you will get beat off dribble, then bigs come over to help and they pick up fouls or leave someone open for easy hoop-for all of Roy's talents, lateral quickness is not one of them and he can be exploited. I'd rather see Hoyas use some Cuse defense--and zone--they have size and smart enough players, not to mention if you zone with Sapp/Rivers--you have two excellent defensive guards who are strong in anticipating/playing passing lanes. Wallace for all of his leadership, lacks footspeed and is abused on defensive end, so he's got more of a shot in a zone as well. Amen. This worked well in the Oregon and Ball State games and I can not figure out why we didn't stick with it. It also leaves Roy in a position where he can rebound instead of getting drawn out to the top of the paint.
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dreamhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,259
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Post by dreamhoya on Dec 2, 2006 23:42:56 GMT -5
no, being cerebral and instinctive are two different things. cerebral requires thought, analysis no matter how quick. instinctive is innate and creative. only rivers seem to have it so far - like Mike Sweetney.
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hoyanick
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
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Post by hoyanick on Feb 25, 2007 15:51:57 GMT -5
Remember these sentiments?
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kchoya
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Enter your message here...
Posts: 9,934
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Post by kchoya on Feb 25, 2007 16:26:25 GMT -5
If RDF's argument that "next year's team will be far superior to this year's and III knows it." comes true, we're going to go undefeated next year
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The Stig
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,844
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Post by The Stig on Feb 25, 2007 16:29:54 GMT -5
I couldn't agree more with the title of the thread.
I couldn't agree less with the reason it was posted at the time. People get way too into short-term results. Compare the early season results of Esh's last year to the early season results of this year. Going by the short-sightedness expressed in this thread, you'd come to the conclusion that Esherick had the better team, and since (according to the topic starter) a team is a reflection of its coach, Esherick was a better coach than JTIII.
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Post by ZackMorrisHoya on Feb 25, 2007 17:52:29 GMT -5
Hey come on, fix that title. This is Georgetown! A team is a reflection of "ITS" coach...pshh
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,652
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Post by guru on Feb 25, 2007 17:57:41 GMT -5
RDF is a great Hoya fan, but those posts were absurd and definitely tainted his credibility. So glad he was so wrong
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bubbrubbhoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
We are the intuitive minds that plot the course. Woo-WOOO!
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Post by bubbrubbhoya on Feb 25, 2007 18:57:58 GMT -5
Hey come on, fix that title. This is Georgetown! A team is a reflection of "ITS" coach...pshh Zach, you're in high school, so maybe you are having a hard time grasping the subtlety of the fundamentals of grammar. "Team," I believe, is a collective noun, and as such it can be treated as either a singular or a plural. In this case you are correct, but so is the original title of the thread. This is Georgetown, Zachary; get your stuff together! - Mr. B. P.S. Everything else about this thread is terrible. You should all be retroactively ashamed of yourselves.
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Post by albertogonzales on Feb 25, 2007 20:00:03 GMT -5
Zach, you're in high school so maybe you are having a hard time grasping the subtlety of the fundamentals of grammar. "Team," I believe, is a collective noun, and as such it can be treated as either a singular or a plural. In this case you are correct, but so is the original title of the thread. This is Georgetown, Zachary; get your stuff together! - Mr. B. P.S. Everything else about this thread is terrible. You should all be retroactively ashamed of yourselves. I applaud your consistently fine grammar. Having already vanquished your opponent in the 2007 HoyaTalk Grammar Rodeo, your persistence in collectively educating us is to be commended. You are a fine citizen, an honest American, and a true fan of your Georgetown team. EDIT #1: Mr. rubb, please cease and desist all exhaust tip whistle installations. The frequency at which they emit noise is interfering with the surveilance efforts of several Government agencies. EDIT #2: Mr. morrishoya, if you choose to remain a Citizen of our fine nation you will comply with the current investigation into the illegal, sexually deviant behavior of your institution's chancellor, Mr. Richard Belding.
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vcjack
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,875
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Post by vcjack on Feb 25, 2007 20:01:38 GMT -5
Zach, you're in high school so maybe you are having a hard time grasping the subtlety of the fundamentals of grammar. "Team," I believe, is a collective noun, and as such it can be treated as either a singular or a plural. In this case you are correct, but so is the original title of the thread. This is Georgetown, Zachary; get your stuff together! - Mr. B. P.S. Everything else about this thread is terrible. You should all be retroactively ashamed of yourselves. I applaud your consistently fine grammar. Having already vanquished your opponent in the 2007 HoyaTalk Grammar Rodeo, your persistence in collectively educating us is to be commended. You are a fine citizen, an honest American, and a true fan of your Georgetown team. Damn, I forgot about AG's omnipresence, looks like no more drunk posting for me (ex Cuse prediction thread)
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