|
Post by KenteKrazies on Oct 12, 2022 20:36:35 GMT -5
Not necessarily true, THB. Upon speaking with several sources, there really is only one option: levelling McD and building something new on its place. Reason? It would actually cost about $50M to renovate McD to 6k seats (which is about what they're looking at, 6-7K seats). More expensive to dig out the floor and gut the building. It would cost about $25-30M to build something new in its place, about 6-7k Convocation center. As for the city approval, we have a good shot at it because, as a convocation center, it is something that would bring students to on-campus events instead of going and peeing on neighbors lawns. In addition, now that there is a new parking garage and traffic light with the Canal St. entrance, traffic would be minimized and would not go thru the neighborhood. We have never had a better shot at this. But it would have to be completely fundraised before beginning- thus necessitating beginning now. 18 years later, YB’s words ring true.
|
|
DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,740
|
Post by DFW HOYA on Oct 12, 2022 22:30:53 GMT -5
Not necessarily true, THB. Upon speaking with several sources, there really is only one option: levelling McD and building something new on its place. Reason? It would actually cost about $50M to renovate McD to 6k seats (which is about what they're looking at, 6-7K seats). More expensive to dig out the floor and gut the building. It would cost about $25-30M to build something new in its place, about 6-7k Convocation center. As for the city approval, we have a good shot at it because, as a convocation center, it is something that would bring students to on-campus events instead of going and peeing on neighbors lawns. In addition, now that there is a new parking garage and traffic light with the Canal St. entrance, traffic would be minimized and would not go thru the neighborhood. We have never had a better shot at this. But it would have to be completely fundraised before beginning- thus necessitating beginning now. 18 years later, YB’s words ring true. While Georgetown slept....some costs on recent arenas under construction (with general contractor costs lower than in Washington:) James Madison opened an 8,500 seat arena in 2020, the Atlantic Union Bank Center. Cost: $139.5 million. High Point debuted a new 5,000 seat arena and conference center in 2021. Cost: $170 million. Baylor is building a 7,000 seat arena to open in 2023. Cost: $212 million. Alabama A&M, which averaged 1,386 a game last season, is building a 6,000 seat "event center". Cost: $300 million. Texas is downsizing to a 10,000 seat arena on campus, but let Live Nation build it in exchange for 30 years of revenues. Cost: $375 million.
|
|
bostonfan
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,505
|
Post by bostonfan on Oct 13, 2022 7:04:21 GMT -5
18 years later, YB’s words ring true. While Georgetown slept....some costs on recent arenas under construction (with general contractor costs lower than in Washington:) James Madison opened an 8,500 seat arena in 2020, the Atlantic Union Bank Center. Cost: $139.5 million. High Point debuted a new 5,000 seat arena and conference center in 2021. Cost: $170 million. Baylor is building a 7,000 seat arena to open in 2023. Cost: $212 million. Alabama A&M, which averaged 1,386 a game last season, is building a 6,000 seat "event center". Cost: $300 million. Texas is downsizing to a 10,000 seat arena on campus, but let Live Nation build it in exchange for 30 years of revenues. Cost: $375 million. No doubt that construction costs have skyrocketed (like everything else) over the last 20 years. Building a new arena on campus would be very expensive right now. I still think it is an avenue the school should pursue. Not only for hosting some on campus basketball games, but mostly to give the students a good sized facility/arena to hold concerts and other large events on campus. Having a nice place to host graduation if it rains on graduation day, would be nice benefit. I think the parking and traffic issues might be as significant as the cost at this point. If the school partnered with some company to assist with the construction costs in exchange for naming rights, along with a big fundraising push, I think it is something they could accomplish financially, but not sure they ever get the neighborhood approval.
|
|
|
Post by Retro_hoya on Oct 13, 2022 9:31:57 GMT -5
Honestly, while a new campus arena would be great, I don’t think it would be worth that cost. What would be much better / would make getting to games easier would be if there were a metro stop in Georgetown. Plethora of other benefits as well but I fully recognize that the is is not feasible and well outside of school control. But man oh man the traffic reduction it would create….
That said, some of the more modest proposals for a renovated McDonough could provide a serviceable arena for all but the biggest games.
|
|
metaphor
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 193
|
Post by metaphor on Oct 13, 2022 11:12:34 GMT -5
You can't control the building of a metro stop, and if they do one it isn't going to be on campus it will be down on M Street.
You can retrofit McDonough as people here have noted and make it usable for 95 percent of games GU plays. Baseball went through this several years ago, smaller is better. Citifield is 15000 seats smaller than Shea was. Camden Yards is much smaller than Memorial Stadium which I believe held around 60,000.
|
|
metaphor
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 193
|
Post by metaphor on Oct 13, 2022 11:14:02 GMT -5
18 years later, YB’s words ring true. While Georgetown slept....some costs on recent arenas under construction (with general contractor costs lower than in Washington:) James Madison opened an 8,500 seat arena in 2020, the Atlantic Union Bank Center. Cost: $139.5 million. High Point debuted a new 5,000 seat arena and conference center in 2021. Cost: $170 million. Baylor is building a 7,000 seat arena to open in 2023. Cost: $212 million. Alabama A&M, which averaged 1,386 a game last season, is building a 6,000 seat "event center". Cost: $300 million. Texas is downsizing to a 10,000 seat arena on campus, but let Live Nation build it in exchange for 30 years of revenues. Cost: $375 million. Except retrofitting McDonough will not face the same legal barriers as it was included in prior year plans and the footprint of the building does not change. Maybe more money but really the only option given the power of the ANC.
|
|
|
Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Oct 13, 2022 12:09:36 GMT -5
Honestly, while a new campus arena would be great, I don’t think it would be worth that cost. While an on campus arena would be spectacular, I have to agree that it likely isn't worth it at this point. The expense would be enormous, the neighbors would fight it, you have the trouble of where to put it (unless it goes where McDonough goes, and with that comes capacity limitations), and the fact that it simply is not a priority for the university. That said, you never know. In 10 years we could have some super-rich alumnus billionaire who loved basketball and wants to build something and donate the cost. Or maybe we will win a few championships and there will be overwhelming support for it - unlikely, but who knows. To me, something like the Cintas Center would be perfect. Big enough where you can fill it with big games, but not as huge as an NBA arena. All that said, I do think a renovated McDonough with 6,000 seats or so would be nice for the OOC if that was ever feasible. At some point, McDonough will need a renovation, and it's something that can be done within the existing footprint. Without a winning program, though, all of this is even more pie-in-the-sky than normal. Even if it was feasible from the campus side, few people will support spending tons of money on an arena for a team that cannot break .500 in the Big East. I still firmly believe that without the 2007 Final Four and good JT3 years that the Thompson Center would have never happened.
|
|
DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,740
|
Post by DFW HOYA on Oct 13, 2022 12:27:19 GMT -5
Honestly, while a new campus arena would be great, I don’t think it would be worth that cost. While an on campus arena would be spectacular, I have to agree that it likely isn't worth it at this point. The expense would be enormous, the neighbors would fight it, you have the trouble of where to put it (unless it goes where McDonough goes, and with that comes capacity limitations), and the fact that it simply is not a priority for the university. That said, you never know. I think we continue to overstate "the neighborhood" in all this. Where was the neighborhood pushing back when McDonough was built? Or when the Who and the Grateful Dead were playing on campus and bringing "undesirables" into the village? Where were the pitchforks and torches along Reservoir when Medstar decided to build the largest project on the campus in decades? The neighborhood outrage of the recent past can be tied to one thing: real estate. Westy Bird and her allies were real estate people who knew that students in the community depressed housing prices by the lack of upkeep required in seasonal housing. The more they could shoehorn more students on campus, the more the capacity to sell $2-4 million townhouses outside the gates. That's why a McDonough renovation was not opposed in 2000, because it did not affect housing values. Georgetown kicks the can on McDonough because they can. If basketball was more of an institutional asset to Georgetown, maybe a different story. Contrast that to Northwestern. Football may not be its bell cow, but it's an asset they are willing to invest in. rebuildryanfield.com/
|
|
metaphor
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 193
|
Post by metaphor on Oct 13, 2022 13:03:20 GMT -5
Good points DFW. Maybe an arena would not be as much of an issue, especially if it was close to the size of the undergraduate body, faculty, and administration. I still believe retrofitting McDonough might be easiest for GU to stomach. But who knows. However it is not a priority as you note. After the remake of the Med campus and the downtown one, not sure what the priority will be next.
|
|
C86
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 230
|
Post by C86 on Oct 13, 2022 13:17:02 GMT -5
I would not rely too much on the example of Northwestern. Dyche Stadium/Ryan Field is in a heavily residential neighborhood. The University does not have a great relationship with Evanston. It consumes services while its constant expansion takes properties off the tax rolls, increasing property taxes for everyone else. The likelihood of this project getting City approval is slim in my mind.
But even if it is approved, Northwestern football brings tens of millions into the University through its membership in the Big Ten. With that guaranteed income they can dare to dream big dreams. Georgetown does not have the same luxury
|
|
mchoya
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 375
|
Post by mchoya on Oct 13, 2022 13:45:10 GMT -5
St. John’s AD just said in a Twitter Q&A that it would cost approx $200M to retrofit/revamp/construct a modern on-campus arena:
I’m assuming Georgetown’s costs would be comparable. There is just no reason for Georgetown to spend those resources on an on-campus arena. None.
|
|
|
Post by Retro_hoya on Oct 14, 2022 7:34:41 GMT -5
St. John’s AD just said in a Twitter Q&A that it would cost approx $200M to retrofit/revamp/construct a modern on-campus arena: I’m assuming Georgetown’s costs would be comparable. There is just no reason for Georgetown to spend those resources on an on-campus arena. None. On a similar note - does anyone with a better pulse on recruiting know which most recruits would prefer? Playing in Cap One (while not MSG, obviously…) is playing in a professional arena. I think showing recruits that they would be playing in (at the lowest level which is most likely to ever occur) revamped McDonough is a substantial step down. Cap One has a bit more of an awe and higher tech factor. “Get prepped for playing in the big leagues by playing in a big league arena” pitch maybe? Of course, an empty big league arena is another thing but one step at a time…
|
|
DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,740
|
Post by DFW HOYA on Oct 14, 2022 9:48:13 GMT -5
On a similar note - does anyone with a better pulse on recruiting know which most recruits would prefer? Playing in Cap One (while not MSG, obviously…) is playing in a professional arena. I think showing recruits that they would be playing in (at the lowest level which is most likely to ever occur) revamped McDonough is a substantial step down. Cap One has a bit more of an awe and higher tech factor. “Get prepped for playing in the big leagues by playing in a big league arena” pitch maybe? Of course, an empty big league arena is another thing but one step at a time… Just six Division I schools play the majority of their games in a pro arena and four are in the Big East (Georgetown, Marquette, St. John's, and Seton Hall). While there may have been a wow-factor at one time playing in such a facility, today's recruits have traveled enough with AAU teams to have seen all sorts of facilities. I don't see it as a significant value add, any more or less than the five Division I schools playing football at an NFL stadium (Miami, Pitt, Temple, Tennessee State, and UNLV). The elephant in the room is that the recent fan experience at Capital One Arena is one step above games at DePaul. Creighton and Marquette fill comparably sized arenas, Providence and Xavier get sellouts in mid-sized arenas, and Villanova is smart enough to save the WFC for the big TV games. The non-conference turnouts are awful--a reflection of weak scheduling and the basketball office's insistence not to schedule local teams like Maryland, GW, or George Mason. The real problem, however, has been the erosion of attendance at Big East games. Ten years ago, Georgetown averaged 13,178 for Big East games (64 percent capacity). Five years ago, it was 8,623 (42 percent). Last season, 5,326 (25 percent). Players (and recruits) see what empty seats look like and it reflects poorly on the program and the University. Georgetown's last sellout was March 9, 2013 and GU has sold 12,000 or more tickets to just four Big East home games in the past five seasons.
|
|
RBHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,124
|
Post by RBHoya on Oct 14, 2022 13:00:19 GMT -5
Many things have changed in the 18 years since this thread was first posted, other than the fact that the cost of building has increased dramatically. The Big East has been completely revamped and the old concerns about minimum capacities for conference games no longer seem as relevant, and we built the Thompson Center which should have moved a lot of the Athletic Department offices out of McDonough (I'm not totally sure the status of that, but believe it was part of the plan), among other things. The combination of those two might make it more feasible and more appetizing to pursue a light renovation of McDonough that would increase capacity enough to be worth considering. Maybe 4-5K?
The best case scenario always has been and will continue to be playing a majority of our games on-campus and playing our biggest and best attended games downtown. Playing in a full or nearly full NBA arena > Playing in a full but very small on-campus arena >>>>>>>>>>>>> Playing in an obviously mostly empty NBA arena.
We should all put out of mind the idea of an 8-10K seat, brand new state of the art on-campus arena. Too expensive, too many hurdles, barring a miracle not happening any time soon. But that doesn't mean we're limited to either current McD or Cap One. The ONLY 2 priorities for a place to play on-campus should be 1) How can we pull together something that looks cool and rowdy on tv and 2) How can we create an environment that's fun for students and makes them want to go to games? You want to create an environment that when people are at home flipping channels, or scrolling on social media, it catches their attention. If they're a high school student, you want them to say "I want to be a part of that!" And you don't need a $200mm state of the art facility to achieve that. Look at Cameron Indoor, it holds <10K and there's nothing new or state of the art about it, but it grabs anyone's attention when you see a game emanating from there. They're not doing that by having the nicest building in the country, they're doing it by packing a lot of people into a small space which makes for a very loud environment, and they keep the student section facing the hard camera so there's a lot of movement and energy when you see it on tv. While we can't replicate that exactly, I do think we could model ourselves after that and renovate McD into a small but loud, intimidating, and fun home court.
The crowds at Cap One aren't coming back, IMHO. I know there's a contingent that always says "win games and people will come." And yea, sure. Of course winning helps attendance. But I think times have changed. Even the last time we were really good, (2007-2008ish) we struggled to get people to the building for non-marquee games on weeknights. And when you compare the conference today to the conference 15 years ago, there are a lot less marquee games (even when teams like PC or Creighton are good, they don't draw as well as the old BE schools did). Not to mention that there are just so many other entertainment options out there these days that didn't exist back in the days when Georgetown was really drawing crowds. If there's not an opportunity to rush the court or have something to brag to friends back home about, today's teens or 20-somethings would rather scroll tiktok or watch netflix than make a long commute downtown at rush hour. If the team wins, great, I'll get the highlights on my phone about 1 second after they happen, and then the next time they play a ranked team maybe I'll go to that one.
Being on national tv in a largely empty NBA arena isn't good for anyone. It's not impressing recruits, it's not energizing the team, it's not building basketball culture among the students, and it's not a good advertisement for the school in the only forum that 99% of the country will ever interact with Georgetown. Unless the basketball program is basically left to die (ie they try to position us like northwestern as "the good academic school in the league who is happy to have a decent team once every decade or two"), it's a problem that's going to have to be solved eventually. The prices of building or renovating are only going to go up. So we can either face the problem now and try to come up with a creative and affordable solution, or we can keep telling ourselves that "winning will fix everything!" and only take action a few years from now when the outlook is even bleaker.
|
|
kghoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,992
|
Post by kghoya on Oct 14, 2022 13:17:47 GMT -5
Many things have changed in the 18 years since this thread was first posted, other than the fact that the cost of building has increased dramatically. The Big East has been completely revamped and the old concerns about minimum capacities for conference games no longer seem as relevant, and we built the Thompson Center which should have moved a lot of the Athletic Department offices out of McDonough (I'm not totally sure the status of that, but believe it was part of the plan), among other things. The combination of those two might make it more feasible and more appetizing to pursue a light renovation of McDonough that would increase capacity enough to be worth considering. Maybe 4-5K? The best case scenario always has been and will continue to be playing a majority of our games on-campus and playing our biggest and best attended games downtown. Playing in a full or nearly full NBA arena > Playing in a full but very small on-campus arena >>>>>>>>>>>>> Playing in an obviously mostly empty NBA arena. We should all put out of mind the idea of an 8-10K seat, brand new state of the art on-campus arena. Too expensive, too many hurdles, barring a miracle not happening any time soon. But that doesn't mean we're limited to either current McD or Cap One. The ONLY 2 priorities for a place to play on-campus should be 1) How can we pull together something that looks cool and rowdy on tv and 2) How can we create an environment that's fun for students and makes them want to go to games? You want to create an environment that when people are at home flipping channels, or scrolling on social media, it catches their attention. If they're a high school student, you want them to say "I want to be a part of that!" And you don't need a $200mm state of the art facility to achieve that. Look at Cameron Indoor, it holds <10K and there's nothing new or state of the art about it, but it grabs anyone's attention when you see a game emanating from there. They're not doing that by having the nicest building in the country, they're doing it by packing a lot of people into a small space which makes for a very loud environment, and they keep the student section facing the hard camera so there's a lot of movement and energy when you see it on tv. While we can't replicate that exactly, I do think we could model ourselves after that and renovate McD into a small but loud, intimidating, and fun home court. The crowds at Cap One aren't coming back, IMHO. I know there's a contingent that always says "win games and people will come." And yea, sure. Of course winning helps attendance. But I think times have changed. Even the last time we were really good, (2007-2008ish) we struggled to get people to the building for non-marquee games on weeknights. And when you compare the conference today to the conference 15 years ago, there are a lot less marquee games (even when teams like PC or Creighton are good, they don't draw as well as the old BE schools did). Not to mention that there are just so many other entertainment options out there these days that didn't exist back in the days when Georgetown was really drawing crowds. If there's not an opportunity to rush the court or have something to brag to friends back home about, today's teens or 20-somethings would rather scroll tiktok or watch netflix than make a long commute downtown at rush hour. If the team wins, great, I'll get the highlights on my phone about 1 second after they happen, and then the next time they play a ranked team maybe I'll go to that one. Being on national tv in a largely empty NBA arena isn't good for anyone. It's not impressing recruits, it's not energizing the team, it's not building basketball culture among the students, and it's not a good advertisement for the school in the only forum that 99% of the country will ever interact with Georgetown. Unless the basketball program is basically left to die (ie they try to position us like northwestern as "the good academic school in the league who is happy to have a decent team once every decade or two"), it's a problem that's going to have to be solved eventually. The prices of building or renovating are only going to go up. So we can either face the problem now and try to come up with a creative and affordable solution, or we can keep telling ourselves that "winning will fix everything!" and only take action a few years from now when the outlook is even bleaker. great post part of the reasons the crowds aren't coming back at Capital One is due to the change in conference opponents. so when Georgetown was a really good, consistently ranked team from 2006 to 2013 they were also playing a much more attractive schedule with larger fan bases. you can try and fix the opponent issue with better non conf scheduling but that only goes so far in that huge arena
|
|
|
Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Oct 14, 2022 13:18:26 GMT -5
On a similar note - does anyone with a better pulse on recruiting know which most recruits would prefer? Playing in Cap One (while not MSG, obviously…) is playing in a professional arena. I think showing recruits that they would be playing in (at the lowest level which is most likely to ever occur) revamped McDonough is a substantial step down. Cap One has a bit more of an awe and higher tech factor. “Get prepped for playing in the big leagues by playing in a big league arena” pitch maybe? Of course, an empty big league arena is another thing but one step at a time… Just six Division I schools play the majority of their games in a pro arena and four are in the Big East (Georgetown, Marquette, St. John's, and Seton Hall). While there may have been a wow-factor at one time playing in such a facility, today's recruits have traveled enough with AAU teams to have seen all sorts of facilities. I don't see it as a significant value add, any more or less than the five Division I schools playing football at an NFL stadium (Miami, Pitt, Temple, Tennessee State, and UNLV). The elephant in the room is that the recent fan experience at Capital One Arena is one step above games at DePaul. Creighton and Marquette fill comparably sized arenas, Providence and Xavier get sellouts in mid-sized arenas, and Villanova is smart enough to save the WFC for the big TV games. The non-conference turnouts are awful--a reflection of weak scheduling and the basketball office's insistence not to schedule local teams like Maryland, GW, or George Mason. The real problem, however, has been the erosion of attendance at Big East games. Ten years ago, Georgetown averaged 13,178 for Big East games (64 percent capacity). Five years ago, it was 8,623 (42 percent). Last season, 5,326 (25 percent). Players (and recruits) see what empty seats look like and it reflects poorly on the program and the University. Georgetown's last sellout was March 9, 2013 and GU has sold 12,000 or more tickets to just four Big East home games in the past five seasons. Obviously, there has been a big decline, but I also think comparing to the "old" Big East is fraught with problems. Unless we get REALLY good (and by that, I mean multiple Final Fours, etc.), there is no way our Big East attendance is going to average 13,178. The old Big East had a lot of great draws because other teams' fans helped us fill the arena. Teams like Pittsburgh, West Virginia, and Louisville traveled extremely well, and really juiced our attendance. And while we are still playing Syracuse, those games meant a lot more when they were actually a conference rival. Sure, those games still draw better because of nostalgia, but that's going to end up becoming less valuable with time, as people who remember the rivalry get older. And, I don't think we have really developed any new rivalries among current conference members (of course, hard to do when a team isn't good). Getting Connecticut back does help; if at some point Georgetown and Connecticut are both good at the same time, that could be a good attendance game. That said, I still think if the team was good consistently over several years, 10,000+ fans would be feasible for some Big East games. I just think there is a very good chance that the super-high attendance numbers of the JT3 era will never be reached again absent an incredible stretch that, sitting here today, seems unlikely (but I am always hopeful in a corner of my brain).
|
|
mchoya
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 375
|
Post by mchoya on Oct 14, 2022 14:14:39 GMT -5
Being on national tv in a largely empty NBA arena isn't good for anyone. It's not impressing recruits, it's not energizing the team, it's not building basketball culture among the students, and it's not a good advertisement for the school in the only forum that 99% of the country will ever interact with Georgetown. Unless the basketball program is basically left to die (ie they try to position us like northwestern as "the good academic school in the league who is happy to have a decent team once every decade or two"), it's a problem that's going to have to be solved eventually. The prices of building or renovating are only going to go up. So we can either face the problem now and try to come up with a creative and affordable solution, or we can keep telling ourselves that "winning will fix everything!" and only take action a few years from now when the outlook is even bleaker. The creative and affordable solution to playing in a cavernous NBA area is downsizing to a smaller arena. McDonough isn't the answer, as even a "light" renovation is going to cost a lot to bring it up to 21st century major conference standards: electrical, telecommunications, locker rooms and other needs have to be met even if you have a 4-5K arena and those aren't cheap. With our performance and other institutional factors, investing capital in a major renovation of McD for these purposes borders on malpractice. Instead, if we're really looking to downsize, there are two arenas in DC that have a capacity of 4200 and 5000, respectively, have hosted games from the pro basketball team, and are metro-accessible. Presumably rents would be a lot lower than CapOne. Georgetown to St. E's/ESA or Georgetown to Smith Center in the near future? It's worth considering...
|
|
hoyaguy
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,848
|
Post by hoyaguy on Oct 14, 2022 16:19:54 GMT -5
Being on national tv in a largely empty NBA arena isn't good for anyone. It's not impressing recruits, it's not energizing the team, it's not building basketball culture among the students, and it's not a good advertisement for the school in the only forum that 99% of the country will ever interact with Georgetown. Unless the basketball program is basically left to die (ie they try to position us like northwestern as "the good academic school in the league who is happy to have a decent team once every decade or two"), it's a problem that's going to have to be solved eventually. The prices of building or renovating are only going to go up. So we can either face the problem now and try to come up with a creative and affordable solution, or we can keep telling ourselves that "winning will fix everything!" and only take action a few years from now when the outlook is even bleaker. The creative and affordable solution to playing in a cavernous NBA area is downsizing to a smaller arena. McDonough isn't the answer, as even a "light" renovation is going to cost a lot to bring it up to 21st century major conference standards: electrical, telecommunications, locker rooms and other needs have to be met even if you have a 4-5K arena and those aren't cheap. With our performance and other institutional factors, investing capital in a major renovation of McD for these purposes borders on malpractice. Instead, if we're really looking to downsize, there are two arenas in DC that have a capacity of 4200 and 5000, respectively, have hosted games from the pro basketball team, and are metro-accessible. Presumably rents would be a lot lower than CapOne. Georgetown to St. E's/ESA or Georgetown to Smith Center in the near future? It's worth considering... ESA would’ve been perfect if it was in Rosslyn so students could walk there or take the buses that already run there besides the bball buses. But it’s such a hassle to get to where it is which is a real shame. I agree a small packed arena is way better than cap one and just a lot of stuff about cap one sucks like the lighting is ridiculously bright like at least one person in my group would always get a headache going there. Getting there as a student during rush hour was a pain and let’s not forget they didn’t send enough buses to pick up students last year, leaving them downtown during the week. I think the smith center seems nice but no shot we share an arena with GW esp since everyone in the TAC seems afraid to even play DMV teams to not risk losing any “superiority” never mind sharing an arena Sadly I think the team would need to be a lot better to even try to warrant renovating Mcd or a more active president
|
|
RBHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,124
|
Post by RBHoya on Oct 14, 2022 16:33:17 GMT -5
Being on national tv in a largely empty NBA arena isn't good for anyone. It's not impressing recruits, it's not energizing the team, it's not building basketball culture among the students, and it's not a good advertisement for the school in the only forum that 99% of the country will ever interact with Georgetown. Unless the basketball program is basically left to die (ie they try to position us like northwestern as "the good academic school in the league who is happy to have a decent team once every decade or two"), it's a problem that's going to have to be solved eventually. The prices of building or renovating are only going to go up. So we can either face the problem now and try to come up with a creative and affordable solution, or we can keep telling ourselves that "winning will fix everything!" and only take action a few years from now when the outlook is even bleaker. The creative and affordable solution to playing in a cavernous NBA area is downsizing to a smaller arena. McDonough isn't the answer, as even a "light" renovation is going to cost a lot to bring it up to 21st century major conference standards: electrical, telecommunications, locker rooms and other needs have to be met even if you have a 4-5K arena and those aren't cheap. With our performance and other institutional factors, investing capital in a major renovation of McD for these purposes borders on malpractice. Instead, if we're really looking to downsize, there are two arenas in DC that have a capacity of 4200 and 5000, respectively, have hosted games from the pro basketball team, and are metro-accessible. Presumably rents would be a lot lower than CapOne. Georgetown to St. E's/ESA or Georgetown to Smith Center in the near future? It's worth considering... Not a fan of either of those, honestly. They are the right size, but I can't see any way to sell either one to fans or players/recruits as an upgrade. Both have some fairly obvious downsides. It's hard for me to ballpark how much a "light" McD renovation would cost, as I'm not in that industry and really couldn't even hazard a guess. But I'm not sure I follow on the electrical/telecom/locker room upgrades needed. Again I don't think it's useful to worry about being up to "21st century major conference standards", or making sure we have a building that's shiny and new that we can be proud of. We are never going to have the Cintas Center. We aren't even going to have the Finnernan Pavilion. We need to embrace that. Lean into it. The ONLY things that matter are how we can pack as many people into that building as possible and make it as loud as possible so that it looks awesome on tv and so that the students and the players are having as much fun as possible. Everything else is an afterthought. I'm not sure what the concerns are with electric and telecom, but we've had nationally televised games from McD in recent years and been fine, so it's not like the arena is lit by torchlight at present. And there are existing locker rooms in the building that were fine for teams during the COVID season, so I wouldn't invest anything significant in upgrading them. The team has spiffy lockers in the TAC and at CapOne that we can show recruits. DFW says that in 1982, we had ~5K in McDonough to watch a game, with an official attendance listed of 4620. I'm sure it was not a comfortable seating experience, it was probably a bunch of students crammed into some bleachers. But to me that's ok. That's college basketball, and that's a fun memory that I'm sure those 4620 hold onto. If we were able to get that many in in the early 80s, with a little creativity and planning, couldn't we get back to that number today? It doesn't seem crazy, and while I recognize any renovation at all isn't going to be cheap in that area, it's going to be far less expensive than the hundreds of millions of dollars it would cost to build an all new arena. That's all I'm really getting at. If it were me, in selling this to donors I'd also emphasize that it's badly needed for our women's team. Maybe recruit some of our women's players or women's basketball alumni to help make the pitch. In today's environment where there's a lot of popular support for women's sports not getting short shrift, I can see that message resonating. Plus you sell the naming rights (sorry Rev McD) and we've got the ball rolling.
|
|
Elvado
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,480
|
Post by Elvado on Oct 15, 2022 8:46:56 GMT -5
The creative and affordable solution to playing in a cavernous NBA area is downsizing to a smaller arena. McDonough isn't the answer, as even a "light" renovation is going to cost a lot to bring it up to 21st century major conference standards: electrical, telecommunications, locker rooms and other needs have to be met even if you have a 4-5K arena and those aren't cheap. With our performance and other institutional factors, investing capital in a major renovation of McD for these purposes borders on malpractice. Instead, if we're really looking to downsize, there are two arenas in DC that have a capacity of 4200 and 5000, respectively, have hosted games from the pro basketball team, and are metro-accessible. Presumably rents would be a lot lower than CapOne. Georgetown to St. E's/ESA or Georgetown to Smith Center in the near future? It's worth considering... Not a fan of either of those, honestly. They are the right size, but I can't see any way to sell either one to fans or players/recruits as an upgrade. Both have some fairly obvious downsides. It's hard for me to ballpark how much a "light" McD renovation would cost, as I'm not in that industry and really couldn't even hazard a guess. But I'm not sure I follow on the electrical/telecom/locker room upgrades needed. Again I don't think it's useful to worry about being up to "21st century major conference standards", or making sure we have a building that's shiny and new that we can be proud of. We are never going to have the Cintas Center. We aren't even going to have the Finnernan Pavilion. We need to embrace that. Lean into it. The ONLY things that matter are how we can pack as many people into that building as possible and make it as loud as possible so that it looks awesome on tv and so that the students and the players are having as much fun as possible. Everything else is an afterthought. I'm not sure what the concerns are with electric and telecom, but we've had nationally televised games from McD in recent years and been fine, so it's not like the arena is lit by torchlight at present. And there are existing locker rooms in the building that were fine for teams during the COVID season, so I wouldn't invest anything significant in upgrading them. The team has spiffy lockers in the TAC and at CapOne that we can show recruits. DFW says that in 1982, we had ~5K in McDonough to watch a game, with an official attendance listed of 4620. I'm sure it was not a comfortable seating experience, it was probably a bunch of students crammed into some bleachers. But to me that's ok. That's college basketball, and that's a fun memory that I'm sure those 4620 hold onto. If we were able to get that many in in the early 80s, with a little creativity and planning, couldn't we get back to that number today? It doesn't seem crazy, and while I recognize any renovation at all isn't going to be cheap in that area, it's going to be far less expensive than the hundreds of millions of dollars it would cost to build an all new arena. That's all I'm really getting at. If it were me, in selling this to donors I'd also emphasize that it's badly needed for our women's team. Maybe recruit some of our women's players or women's basketball alumni to help make the pitch. In today's environment where there's a lot of popular support for women's sports not getting short shrift, I can see that message resonating. Plus you sell the naming rights (sorry Rev McD) and we've got the ball rolling. Missouri at McDonough is the single best game experience of my four years at GU. Not sure there is either the institutional will or creativity necessary to make that a viable option any time soon.
|
|