hoyabinx
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by hoyabinx on Apr 29, 2004 10:14:04 GMT -5
I was wondering exactly how much would a new on-campus arena cost? A new arena is a oft-talked about subject but I havent seen any price quotes. I know the new Business school building in lot T is running about $85 million. I couldn´t imagine a new arena costing that much, but just for arguments sake what would an 8,000 person place cost? What permits and city approvals would be needed? And where in the hell would they put it?
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Post by TrueHoyaBlue on Apr 29, 2004 10:29:24 GMT -5
The idea that has been proposed is either to gut mcdonough, drop and rotate the floor, remove most of the offices/locker space (which will go into the Multi-Sport facility on Harbin Field) and make it into one big arena. Another option that has been proposed -- at least on this board -- is levelling McD, and starting a new building from scratch.
I don't know if anyone has released official numbers, but I've heard estimates from $20M to $50M. Cost will probably not be the main factor, though. There is currently absolutely no way that the university could ever get DC zoning approval for an 8,000 seat arena (from a traffic/parking/access standpoint), and a 6,000 seat arena would be nearly as problematic. Just as a comparison, the 220-seat theatre in the new performing arts center had to undergo an 18 month zoning process due to, among other things, concerns about the additional traffic it might cause the Georgetown neighborhood.
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SaxaCD
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Post by SaxaCD on Apr 29, 2004 10:34:21 GMT -5
I wish we could just raze the entire Georgetown neighborhood and build an arena there, instead. Talk about killing two birds with one stone...
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Post by TrueHoyaBlue on Apr 29, 2004 10:38:06 GMT -5
Sounds like a wonderful plan.
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hoyabinx
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Post by hoyabinx on Apr 29, 2004 10:38:26 GMT -5
I have thought about the traffic parking problem and know it is a big one, but the huge parking deck under the new southwest quad (which is steps away from mcdonough) as well as leavey. I suppose leaving after the game would be a nightmare though, only three ways out. If the school set up alot of free busses from rossyln and dupont that would be almost like an extention of the metro right to the university and would help those who dont wish to drive (not to mention those who wish to drink). All in all I dont find it all that unfeasible. The university could also set up deals with off campus parking decks, like the ones near M street.
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YB
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Post by YB on Apr 29, 2004 10:38:49 GMT -5
Not necessarily true, THB.
Upon speaking with several sources, there really is only one option: levelling McD and building something new on its place.
Reason?
It would actually cost about $50M to renovate McD to 6k seats (which is about what they're looking at, 6-7K seats). More expensive to dig out the floor and gut the building.
It would cost about $25-30M to build something new in its place, about 6-7k Convocation center.
As for the city approval, we have a good shot at it because, as a convocation center, it is something that would bring students to on-campus events instead of going and peeing on neighbors lawns. In addition, now that there is a new parking garage and traffic light with the Canal St. entrance, traffic would be minimized and would not go thru the neighborhood.
We have never had a better shot at this. But it would have to be completely fundraised before beginning- thus necessitating beginning now.
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HS86
Member
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Post by HS86 on Apr 29, 2004 10:39:52 GMT -5
I believe that to get around the zoning issues, the University plans to keep the shell of the building, dig down and rotate 90 degrees the basketball court. It wouldn't be a new building, just a renovation of an old one. But first, they have to relocate the athletic department offices currently housed there, to the multisport facility.
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YB
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Post by YB on Apr 29, 2004 10:41:39 GMT -5
the McD renovation is not likely because of cost. They can get around zoning by asserting that traffic and other issues can be addressed effectively.
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hoyabinx
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Post by hoyabinx on Apr 29, 2004 10:43:44 GMT -5
Two questions:
How many people fit in that sorry excuse for a college gym now?
What is the estimated cost renting the MCI Center? I cant imagine the long term costs are cheaper for MCI.
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Post by TrueHoyaBlue on Apr 29, 2004 10:52:39 GMT -5
YB, I agree that there are workable solutions. However, I think you "misunderestimate" the sheer bureaucracy of DC zoning, and the politics of town-gown relations in general in this town (much of which has been driven by GW's ever-expanding empire of properties).
A few examples of GU projects, and the estimated length of time taken to get them through the zoning process.
Performing Arts Center -- 18-24 months (minimal traffic impact, but major traffic concerns raised)
Boathouse - roughly 2 years (minimal traffic impact, but major concerns raised)
The traffic light on Canal Road, and the university's proposed new Canal Road entrance -- 14 years. (Traffic concerns, although it was deisgned to alleviate, rather than aggravate, traffic)
I'm not disagreeing that there are ways to solve the traffic issue -- I just think you are being extremely naive in believing that something like this will sail through the zoning process.
Looking at traffic objectively, it's hard to imagine how long it would take someone to get onto campus, via car, for a game in a larger McDonough. For anyone who's tried to cross the Key Bridge from Rosslyn into Gtown around 6 or 7:00 on a weeknight, it's a challenging trip. Taking Pennsylvania/M Street isn't much better, and while the Whitehurst is nice, it can be a challenge to get to. Keep in mind that while people would be traveling to games, Canal Rd is restricted to outbound-only.
I would love to have an on-campus arena, and I would like to see it made a fund-raising priority, but I think its approval from the city will come only after a knock-down drag-out multi-year battle royale in the zoning world.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 29, 2004 10:53:40 GMT -5
There is currently absolutely no way that the university could ever get DC zoning approval for an 8,000 seat arena (from a traffic/parking/access standpoint), and a 6,000 seat arena would be nearly as problematic. You simply can't state this as fact. Yes, it'll be difficult, but it annoys the heck out of me when people just assume like this.
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Post by TrueHoyaBlue on Apr 29, 2004 11:03:41 GMT -5
You're right, I may have strongly worded my post, but I am basing my argument on the recent patterns of the DC zoning process, which extends beyond just GU's issues, and with the continuing (huge) influence that Georgetown neighbors have on DC politics.
These are facts, sorry to say. And my assumption, based on those facts, is that if GU were to begin negotiating for an 8,000 seat arena today, it would face a nearly impossible task. Maybe a year or two down the road, that relationship will be different, but it's not right now, and given the greatly mitigated success of the Anthony Williams administration, I'm not holding my breath for any major civil service reforms in the District any time soon.
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YB
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Post by YB on Apr 29, 2004 11:10:13 GMT -5
THB- I understand what you're saying- but I think you are overestimating those concerns.
The major pieces needed to address those concerns will already be in place before any application- the traffic light and garage by the canal road entrance. Plus, they are already planning for major shuttle service to metro for game days. So, parking might not be as big a concern as thought- no bigger than, say, your average GU LAX or Football game.
I think if they began now they could get approval in 2 years if they play their cards right.
Hence, fundraising should begin now. The GU neighbors just got beaten in court by GU- now is the time to take advantage of their weakness.
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YB
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Post by YB on Apr 29, 2004 11:15:02 GMT -5
Let's also not forget that the opportunity cost of not building the on-campus CC is losing money hand over fist on every game we play at MCI for the next 20 years, and maybe losing the bball program altogether because of it. This is simply too important to slough to the side and say, "Aww, city approval will be a hassle".
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hoyabinx
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Post by hoyabinx on Apr 29, 2004 11:25:16 GMT -5
Let's also not forget that the opportunity cost of not building the on-campus CC is losing money hand over fist on every game we play at MCI for the next 20 years, and maybe losing the bball program altogether because of it. This is simply too important to slough to the side and say, "Aww, city approval will be a hassle". That is what I am saying. Over a 20 year span the school is absolutely dropping money in a toilet (MCI) If they set up a fundraising intiative they don´t even have to pay for the damn thing. As a student I hate going to MCI and it is definately an impediment big enough to keep me going to games (and I am a big fan). If all I had to do is walk to Mcdonough from where I live I would be elated. An on campus arena would make going to basketball games something everyone would do, even if they arent big fans. 200-300 students a game at MCI is pathetic and its not all because of the dismal ESH era. No one wants to go down to MCI on a weekend night much less a weeknight unless they are hardcore.
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YB
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Post by YB on Apr 29, 2004 11:41:40 GMT -5
Here here hoyabinx. Keep looking on the talkboard over the summer as we attempt to make the GU Admin see the light.
Feel free to contact me with any questions.
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Apr 29, 2004 12:13:50 GMT -5
Two questions: How many people fit in that sorry excuse for a college gym now? 2K max.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Apr 29, 2004 12:24:00 GMT -5
On Feb. 20, 1982, close to 5,000 people were seated...Ok, were "in" the arena to see Georgetown knock off #4 Missouri. "Official" attendance was 4,620 I know I'm swimming upstream on this one, but yes, you could fit 6,000 (and not much more) in the current building and it wouldn't cost $20 million to do so. "I feel like I'm in a wine cellar."--Al McGuire, on the 1982 NBC broadcast from McDonough
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2004 12:26:33 GMT -5
How much would it cost to purchase Georgetown Visitation or the Ben Franklin school? They would give us a lot more land and specifically office space. Besides, from what I gather the multi-sport facility will NOT have the offices and that great big red brick structure for a while. From what I gather from articles in The Hoya, they are merely fixing the lights, field and stands for now. The rest to follow.
GO HOYAS!!!
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Post by TrueHoyaBlue on Apr 29, 2004 12:28:27 GMT -5
Considering Visitation is in considerably better finances than G'town, and they've been in their space for over a hundred years, I'd imagine... a lot.
Not sure where Ben Franklin School is... any details?
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