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Post by dairishhoya on Apr 29, 2004 13:13:45 GMT -5
What annoys the heck out of me is folks who don't follow our battles with the community and the BZA and assume both can be easily managed to build a 6-8,000 seat arena on campus ... please take the time to read the rulings and court briefings.
THB gave a great summary and it even ignores projects prioritized ahead of the Convocation Center (MSB, Science Bldg, Old Jes Rez). And I'm sorry if folks think a traffic light and 268 slot parking garage is a major piece of this struggle ... you're fooling yourself.
Frankly, if anyone is underestimating the project its the folks talking to Athletics and OAUR about where this fits on the priority list -- get a little closer to Healy before claiming this project is getting a green light to move forward.
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YB
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Post by YB on Apr 29, 2004 13:22:27 GMT -5
Jack, I really have to disagree with you here about MCI.
I have heard this "it's an excuse" agrument but consider the reality:
We drew MUCH BETTER in USAIR than MCI. Reason? We have a lot of alums and fans in PG County and Northern VA. Easier for them to drive along the beltway to USAIR than try and find parking downtown for MCI.
ALSO the following:
1. We can't practice at MCI, so it's a foreign court to our players too.
2. It doesn't feel like home- no GU banners, pcitures, or anything on the rafters or walls. Walk into McD and walk into MCI and see which one feels like GU's homecourt.
3. It costs a mother f'in TON. we have to get 7K paid fans in there before we make a dime. Unless we schedule NO patsies in any year we play there, that will not happen. We are a small school and neither alums nor DC fans will come to games at MCI with all its hassles to play podunk state.
4. Students WILL NOT COME in large numbers unless it's on campus. Even in the Hoyas' heyday, we only had 2k student season ticket holders. Students- and you heard this borne out on the talkboard- do not want to take 4-5 hours out of their busy days twice a week, sometimes on weeknights, to go to games. On campus is a different story.
And also, don't delude yourself into thinking that MCI is a viable long-term solution. The heart of any college program is students and alums. They have spoken with their absence- they don't like MCI and will not come in the numbers needed. We should be paying attention to them, not to the DC-area fans.
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YB
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Post by YB on Apr 29, 2004 13:30:36 GMT -5
dairish- I see that kind of defeatist attitude as a reason nothing EVER gets done around Georgetown.
I have been following the battles, closely, and have talked to both GU Admin and Ath Dept folks. Also to other constituencies.
I know the fights that have been fought and need be fought for the current projects.
But also note that for NONE of these projects were GU alums contacted for assistance. Also, people on cmapus who think MCI is a viable solution are simply deluding themselves. It is not, for a variety of reasons I have already stated.
It is simply not an option. The University thinks backwards here- it is worth the fight because it would turn the bball program into a money winner instead of a loser, and make it immeasurably better; inspire alums to donate to other projects (such as the beloved science center, for instance); etc. The benefits, especially long-term, would outweigh the difficulties- by a lot- as well as giving GU a place to hold one united commencement ceremony, concerts, and other events that would keep students on campus and not peeing in their neighbors' yards.
You have to think with vision if you want to go forward- and GU definitely has a BIG issue with "the vision thing".
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Jack
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Post by Jack on Apr 29, 2004 13:31:34 GMT -5
We drew better in USAir than in MCI because the product was better. Plain and simple. GU alumni don't live in PG County in great numbers, they are much more likely to live in Montgomery County, and Landover is not easier to get to than Chinatown for alumni living in NoVA.
I guess what I am trying to say is: The on campus arena is not happening soon, and no amount of grass roots enthusiasm is going to get it done before the time is right. Even if the funds were in place and there were no other priorities on campus, zoning and construction delays would not have a new arena for at least 5 years. The external factors alone will not be overcome without tremendous effort. In the meantime, lets make the best of what we have, which is not so bad, and stop running it down like we play our home games in the HSBC Arena in Baltimore. MCI is not a terrible place. It is expensive, and it is not as convenient, but it can be made to work, and it MUST be made to work for a the considerable near future.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 29, 2004 13:41:11 GMT -5
dairish- I see that kind of defeatist attitude as a reason nothing EVER gets done around Georgetown. So true. Just think, though, just a few months ago, many were branded as crazy for thinking that Craig Esherick would be fired -- they weren't close enough to Healy to know how Georgetown worked.
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YB
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Post by YB on Apr 29, 2004 13:43:10 GMT -5
Look, if you want to make MCI work in the short-term then a few things have to happen.
1. You have to have busses leaving at different times to allow student options on getting to the games. Currently they all leave at one time and waaaay before start time.
2. You have to get more GU banners etc up in MCI- make it feel more like a REAL home.
3. You have to seat students on both ends of the court and realistically on one side as well- no one likes the students cooped up in one corner where they cannot be heard. Plus, they must be given license to be loud and rowdy- and create a REAL home court. In other words, call off the facistic MCI security guards.
4. Maybe close off the upper deck of MCI to create scarcity and discourage other teams' fans from coming. To be outnumbered in our own building is unacceptible.
5. Have the SID fired for incompetence and bring in someone who will agressively market the games to alums and students. GU has more than 40k alums living in the DC area; they get marketed to for bball tickets- ready for it- ONCE a year due to University policy.
6. Aggressively market to students again- special deals on seaosn tickets, giveaways, and WAAAY more advance notice for games to both students and alums. A few fliers around campus 2 daysd before events is simply not sufficient, and is evidence of incompetence in the SID's office.
7. Websites for Houa Blue and the HHC to help promote games and related events.
8. Coordinated away game-watching events on campus for students.
All of the above, AT A MINIMUM, need to happen for MCI to be a viable home.
Now you see why we need it on-campus.
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Jack
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Post by Jack on Apr 29, 2004 13:52:24 GMT -5
Good suggestions, all of them, and not too difficult to incorporate. All of those ideas are about a million times easier than building an on campus arena and just might work.
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Post by dairishhoya on Apr 29, 2004 13:58:06 GMT -5
YB--that's what I want to hear ... *REAL* solutions. Yes, the Convocation Center is in our ten-year plan but we all know we face an uphill battle so let's put our energies in achievable goals. I agree completely with Jack: the better the product, the better the turn-out and I believe JTIII will do his part in this area. And let's remember, we have what other schools don't, their alumni come to work in the District so let's take their money while we beat their alma mater at a filled MCI.
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YB
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Post by YB on Apr 29, 2004 14:12:14 GMT -5
Well, those suggestions are fine- I mean, I think the one BE team playing in a pro arena that does the best job of it is PC, who has their stuff prominently all over the place. I think those things would go a long way toward making MCI viable in the short run. If you want to talk to me about it, drop me an email and let's talk. I also do weddings and Bar Mitzvahs....
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Post by tboy on Apr 29, 2004 15:11:31 GMT -5
actually the approval has not been formally done but behind the scenes officials say a convacation/ arena could be approved for 6500. the real story is the money. for this project to be moved up at least 50% or more would have to be raised. i think that some group of alumni and others would have come up with a certain amount and then the university would put it on the front burner. an on campus arena, however, is not the answer to many of the problems of the program. the money would actually have to be raised outside a univ run campaign for this to take place.
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YB
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Post by YB on Apr 29, 2004 15:23:48 GMT -5
That's what I thought, tboy. The money is the problem here.
That's why I think DFW's 1789 campaign has some legs to it. But it has to start now.
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Apr 29, 2004 15:24:30 GMT -5
Marketing, money, etc. Gentlemen, you can talk about this until you are blue in the face. All you need are W's. You can market until you are blue in the face. No W's, no money, no fans, no program, no games on ESPN or CBS. no Big money contracts from Nike. Getting W's are the primary objective. You start from within then work your way out. Start winning and people will come to the MCI, like they did the Capital Centre. The on-campus arena isn't the issue. It won't be built in our lifetime. The issue is winning games. The basketball program built by Thompson had prestige because it WON games and a national championship, and produced great players. Lets put our energy in ACTUALLY COMING TO GAMES, supporting the teams, and doing away with our own personal agendas. I think our primary "agenda" should be supporting our team.
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YB
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Post by YB on Apr 29, 2004 15:29:07 GMT -5
OK.... but if you don't think that our not winning, peoples' not coming to games, etc. isn't related to money and the place we play and people actually KNOWING about games etc, you're smoking crack. Things don't happen in a avacuum, and winning doesn't happen out of thin air either. And it's not all on the coach either.
I think JT3 will win more than Esh, maybe 1 NCAA every 2-3 years. But that's not going to draw in the crowds, folks. You need title contenders to draw like we need to- and that's not going to happen without a better home and more resoruces.
As for people, our alums and students coming to games- the AD has to stop acting like they're doing everyone a favor. Marketing must improve for people to come. People have to feel welcome at Hoya games. That takes effort and work.
And ultimately, an on campus CC.
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Cambridge
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Post by Cambridge on Apr 29, 2004 15:39:22 GMT -5
I still sit up at night lementing over the Mt. Vernon campus. My brother is a soph at GW and he spent his first year on that campus and works for their SID and works a lot over there. It is gorgeous. It has beautiful sports fields, indoor tennis courts, outdoor pools. It is paradise and we could have got it for a song. It could have easily been set up as our multi sport complex (it practically is one right now) and is only blocks from campus. Not to mention it has really nice dorms with dining halls in each one. GW really scored with that property. Worst descision ever made by GU.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2004 15:40:20 GMT -5
I agree with YB here, but for different reasons. _way, you are always preaching how winning will change this and that, and I think you are right: the more wins, the more tickets sold, national tv games, hopefully newer and better recruits, etc. But how much control does the average alumni/fan have over that? In the end, the coaches and players determine wins, not us. You can make the argument that loud and crazy fans excite recruits and will pull them to G'Town. But the argument can also be made that even with 7 or 8 thousand wild G'Town fans at MCI, there are either A) 10 or so thousand wild and crazier 'Cuse, Duke, whoever fans or B) nobody else because we are playing a MEAC team or one that has no local alumni presence, in which case MCI is about a third full, thus not making any sort of impression on a recruit (in my opinion, a recruit will choose a school based on a plethora of factors, the coach and system and chance to go pro being the largest).
The point of all my ramblings is that for all your talk about wins this and wins that, WE essentially have no control over that. Or what little control we do have, we can exert more pressure and achive greater results in attempting to get a 6,500 seat convocation center created. THEN imagine a recruit at a sold out McD with ONLY G'Town fans screaming and yelling, III on the sidelines, CBS calling the game...you wanna see wins, there you go.
So while I agree with you that wins will benefit this program more than anything, we as alumni and fans can serve the program better by pressuring the administration for action on an on campus arena, starting the fund raising push, and - of course - upping our support level in the meantime to show we mean business about getting this ship back on course.
Mark me down for all I can spare when the 1789 Fund - or whatever the school decides to use - becomes a reality.
GO HOYAS!!!
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the_way
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Post by the_way on Apr 29, 2004 15:42:57 GMT -5
Last time I checked. Georgetown is a university not a "nursery" school. You see thats what I'm talking about. The pessimistic, fatalistic attitude has gotten us where we are. I doubt seriously any winning program or campus who is on the verge of winning has a student body who actually think that way. Thats not a healthy climate to build a winner or to actually "raise" money. I would hope the majority of fans are more optimistic and give the coach a chance. Its easy to complain and find fault with everything. Nothing is perfect, nor will it ever be. There is more good than bad when it comes to G'town and the basketball program. I think maybe its time for some of us to realize this, and be a little more positive.
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YB
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Post by YB on Apr 29, 2004 15:49:02 GMT -5
I don't know whether your stances are naivete or just flame baiting.
Look at GU. Look at the last 5 national champions. See a difference? Lots of state schools; Syracuse functions as a state school and is its areas' local pro team. Duke is exceptional but has an on campus arena that seats 6500.
Get it yet?
If we don't make up for the resources differential- and JT2 says this all the time on his radio show- we're never going to be competitive again.
I want GU to be competitive. I want to win, people to come to the games, there to be excitement. I want all of it and I assume we all do.
But you have to look at things and say, the whole "little catholic school that could" model isn't going to cut it in big-time college sports anymore.
At least, we need an on-campus arena for financial and student support reasons. AT LEAST.
Until then, we need better efforts at making MCI better so people want to come. Wins are great but there is more that adds up to those wins than just the coach, folks.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2004 15:49:10 GMT -5
_way, was your last post in response to my previous post or CambridgeHoya's?
GO HOYAS!!!
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 29, 2004 16:15:05 GMT -5
actually the approval has not been formally done but behind the scenes officials say a convacation/ arena could be approved for 6500. the real story is the money. for this project to be moved up at least 50% or more would have to be raised. i think that some group of alumni and others would have come up with a certain amount and then the university would put it on the front burner. an on campus arena, however, is not the answer to many of the problems of the program. the money would actually have to be raised outside a univ run campaign for this to take place. What's the point of 6500? No Big East games could be played there. I believe the minimum is 7000 or 8000.
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Post by Admin on Apr 29, 2004 17:49:40 GMT -5
The minimum capacity for a Big East game is 6,000.
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