Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2004 12:33:19 GMT -5
I've always heard that G'Town bailed Visitation out BIG time by giving them the land the Cloisters (sp) are now on for $1 a few years back. Also, I've heard from a few alumni that seem to be "in the know" (whatever that is) that there has been an on and off discussion over the years about trying to acquire that land.
Ben Franklin. The White House-looking high school up on the corner of Resevoir and 35th Street...just east of the International School.
I know both are essentially pipe dreams, but it would seem like the only possible place for expansion (unless, of course, the planets align and that section of the park west of McD is given to us).
GO HOYAS!!!
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Apr 29, 2004 12:36:30 GMT -5
Visitation never will be for sale. Period. End of story.
Georgetown did not give the Cloisters to Visitation, they offered to sell it and Georgetown turned it down.
Ben Franklin? You may be referring to the Duke Ellington School for the Arts (formerly Western High School). It is owned by the city and not for sale. Georgetown has bid for years for the old Western HS field and the city will not sell, although it will let GU renovate the track there.
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YB
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Post by YB on Apr 29, 2004 12:37:59 GMT -5
That's not Ben Franklin school, that's Duke Ellington.... a DC charter school and one of the best performing arts schools in the country. I wouldn't count on us acquiring that land. Ditto Visitation.
McD renovation would be next to impossible, I think. You'd have to drop the floor down and it would be tough to raise the funding for that (more expensive than just tearing down and rebuilding).
That said, anyting that gets the Hoyas back on campus is ok by me. DFW, what was the reaction to the 1789 campaign from the GU folks?
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on Apr 29, 2004 12:38:01 GMT -5
On Feb. 20, 1982, close to 5,000 people were seated...Ok, were "in" the arena to see Georgetown knock off #4 Missouri. "Official" attendance was 4,620 I know I'm swimming upstream on this one, but yes, you could fit 6,000 (and not much more) in the current building and it wouldn't cost $20 million to do so. "I feel like I'm in a wine cellar."--Al McGuire, on the 1982 NBC broadcast from McDonoughAttendance numbers were routinely soemwhat inflated in the early 80s although capacity was about 4K - 4620 would have been with lots of crammed standing room. Since then, most of the upper level seating capacity has been removed and is unavailable. I'd give you 2500 without any changes or frenovations.
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dTRAIN
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Post by dTRAIN on Apr 29, 2004 12:41:30 GMT -5
Hoyabinx,
Not to judge, but part of your post really gets at a major problem facing the program. You call yourself a "big fan", and the fact that you take the time to post here shows you do care.
But as a '92 graduate, I can't accept your comment that going all the way to MCI is a major impediment to attending the games. We had to sit on a yellow school bus with no bathroom for the 50 minute trip to Cap Centre (I sound like my parents here, I know).
The apathy of the students in general (certain posters on this board are clearly an exception) is troubling.
I know an on campus place would be great and do wonders for the program, but going to MCI shouldn't be reserved for the "hardcore fans". I define hardcore fans as willing to drive from NY to Memphis to see AI's first game. Hardcore fans have missed only 3 G-town BET games since 1989. Hardcore fans decide at 9:00AM on a workday to go to Springfield because of a rumor that HT might be ruled eligible. Taking a 15 minute bus ride does not make one hardcore.
Again, I'm not trying to judge, I just think this is a real problem. I know the team has stunk, but students need to support the team, even when it is down.
d-TRAIN
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Post by TrueHoyaBlue on Apr 29, 2004 12:41:54 GMT -5
Oh, gotcha -- the school on 35th and Reservoir is Duke Ellington H.S., which is an Arts Magnet h.s. in the D.C. Public Schools. GU recently got a lease on the track for Ellington Field, and are in the process of raising money to renovate the track...
Visitation, you may be right, but if it happened, it was probably about 100 years. More recently, though (20 years ago, roughly), Visitation sold a part of their campus, and offered to sell it to GU at a discount. GU declined, and it was eventually sold to developers for a hefty cost, and is now the Cloisters...
All said, Visitation has built several new (very nice) buildings in the last few years, so I don't imagine they'd be looking to sell.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Apr 29, 2004 12:42:33 GMT -5
If someone can e-mail me a large photo of an empty McDonough (looking across the sideline stands), I could draw how this could be accomplished.
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Post by TrueHoyaBlue on Apr 29, 2004 12:42:59 GMT -5
Guess i was a little late on that last post!
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YB
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Post by YB on Apr 29, 2004 12:47:09 GMT -5
dTRAIN, I agree with you in a certain sense here, but also disagree too.
You have to remember that this group of youngsters has no memory of our 1984 championship or all the years at USelessAIR Arena. They applied to schools with on-campus facilities in almost all cases. That is the modern era.
Though I wish more of them would quit bitching and go to MCI, I think it is reasonable to think that we could draw 3k-4k students per game in an on campus facility. We'll never ever draw that playing off campus. BIG difference.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2004 12:47:10 GMT -5
You'd figure I'd know Duke Ellington considering I lived a block from it for two years...where the hell did I come up with Ben Franklin?
Anywho, I was obviously given bad info about Visitation. I was just trying to figure out if there were any places we could expand to. As for the track, are you refering to the one at the end of R St. and 38th?
GO HOYAS!!!
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Post by TrueHoyaBlue on Apr 29, 2004 12:48:56 GMT -5
That's the one. I think guhoyas mentions something about fundraising efforts for the track renovation (a $600,000 renovation, and they're part-way there with funding so far).
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YB
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Post by YB on Apr 29, 2004 12:49:12 GMT -5
That's the one, Buffalo. Suffice to say there's no place we could expand to adjacent to campus.
The plot McD is on should be sufficient.... we just have to make use of it.
DFW, any reaction by the higher-ups to your 1789 idea?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2004 12:53:38 GMT -5
YB is pretty much on target. I graduated in '02 and think I only missed 2 or 3 MCI games during my tenure, but for most kids (who, on average, are doing school work for a weeknight game) the thought of having to get to the bus loading area 90 minutes before tip - remember, the buses (at least when I was there) didn't leave once one was filled. They all left at once, so even if you were at a bus 2 hours before game time, they all left 20 minutes before, you end up getting a bad seat way up behind the net, and then it is the same routine going home. Figure a game is 2 hours, to be among the first kids off the bus and to a seat, for a 7pm game you had to reserve about 530pm to about 10 on your schedule. For me, that was no problem...I can cram. But for most students, it is a problem.
GO HOYAS!!!
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hoyabinx
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Post by hoyabinx on Apr 29, 2004 12:59:29 GMT -5
Hoyabinx, Not to judge, but part of your post really gets at a major problem facing the program. You call yourself a "big fan", and the fact that you take the time to post here shows you do care. But as a '92 graduate, I can't accept your comment that going all the way to MCI is a major impediment to attending the games. We had to sit on a yellow school bus with no bathroom for the 50 minute trip to Cap Centre (I sound like my parents here, I know). The apathy of the students in general (certain posters on this board are clearly an exception) is troubling. I know an on campus place would be great and do wonders for the program, but going to MCI shouldn't be reserved for the "hardcore fans". I define hardcore fans as willing to drive from NY to Memphis to see AI's first game. Hardcore fans have missed only 3 G-town BET games since 1989. Hardcore fans decide at 9:00AM on a workday to go to Springfield because of a rumor that HT might be ruled eligible. Taking a 15 minute bus ride does not make one hardcore. Again, I'm not trying to judge, I just think this is a real problem. I know the team has stunk, but students need to support the team, even when it is down. d-TRAIN "Hardcore" was a poor adjective. What I really meant was that there are so many people that would go to the game if it was closer. I know it sounds bad but going to a Hoya Basketball game isnĀ“t the thing to do on campus in 2004, I know, I am there. An on campus arena would make it "the thing to do" which would in itself revitalize not only the basketball program, but also the sense of community at Gtown. I transferred to Gtown from UGA and what I saw there was that Sports bring together a University like nothing else. (granted it was a state school and the football games draw 80K) To have that sort of cohesion at Gtown would be amazing, granted on a smaller level. If all undergrads had to do is walk 300 yards to a basketball game and pay 5 bucks it would change the world up there on the hilltop. Just my 2 cents.......
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2004 13:01:07 GMT -5
As for that track, my buddies and I lived on R Street about 4 or 5 houses down from that park and we used to go there and just throw a football or play some lax and we'd always get kicked off by (take your choice) cops, the guy who was maintenance there (forget his name), little league football coaches (who would yell but fail to tell us practice was 2 hours away!!!), or more cops (mostly cops...obviously the neighbors objected to our enjoyment of the outdoors). Does this lease just cover us for a few track meets or is this place going to be open to GU students and ONLY GU people for its term?
Also, the "1789 Fund" was BRILLIANT idea, if I may say so. Talk about an "easy" way to raise $25 million. I'm kinda broke and going to be $120-some thousand in debt when I graduate from grad school, but mark me down for at least $100. Plus, if we got all those board donations from a month or so ago together, we'd have a nice start. Plus, guys like Leonsis and Clinton are sports fans, our NBA guys can come up with a million or two (hopefully). I'd have to say the fundraising, if done aggressively, could really accomplish something. Then it'd be up to the lawyers to get it through zoning, planning, etc. Definitely do-able.
And I think binx is right about on campus and $5 changing G'Town hoops. Only this time it'd be forever and in a positive way...just my two cents.
GO HOYAS!!!
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Jack
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Post by Jack on Apr 29, 2004 13:03:17 GMT -5
Lots of urban legend on the GU campus about various questionable decisions by previous administrations, and I think a number of different stories are being confused and conflated here. To the best of my knowledge (and this is probably more mythology in some places):
-The original WGTB was a nice source of ad revenue with a real, powerful FM signal and it was sold for a $1 due in part to programming that did not fall in line with Catholic values.
-Georgetown University gave the land that is now Visitation to the Sisters long, long ago, but there is not even a scintilla of a chance that it could be required, appealing as it may be.
-The land that is now the Cloisters apartments was owned by Georgetown and/or Visitation at some point but sold it off to pay short term expenses.
-Georgetown had a great opportunity to buy the land of the former Mt. Vernon College on Foxhall Rd about 3/4 mile from campus at a great price, but failed to do it and now GW uses it as a satellite campus and for intramural fields. Could have been something akin to the Newton Campus at BC.
-Plans to renovate or rebuild McDonough have existed since at least 1973, but nothing has ever happened.
In short, there have been plenty of missed opportunities, but the belief that the iron is currently hot seems a little optimistic. It may sound like a defeatist attitude to some, but it comes from a somewhat realistic understanding of current political issues at Georgetown and in the neighborhood when I say that an on-campus arena should not be a top priority right now on a campus that has not built any new academic buildings since 1981. The lack of an on-campus arena has become an excuse, when it is really a problem that can be overcome.
A good team with a good schedule and affordable tickets should sell enough seats to make MCI work. I hear the arguments about sparse crowds at USAir, but MCI is a different arena in a different place in a different time. College basketball is bigger than ever, MCI is very accessible to all constituencies, and the area around it is becoming increasingly attractive. Before we throw our hands up and say a team can never succeed in MCI, lets try to putting a good product out there and promoting it seriously to the local family entertainment market. If the question is whether to drop $200 to bring a family of four to a Wizards game or $80 to bring a family of four to a Georgetown game and get better seats, there should be no question.
In the end, the program would make more money and be more stable playing on campus, but the obstacles are really tremendous and continuing to describe MCI as a liability is not helping anything. If JT3 takes a positive approach to playing and recruiting in MCI, it might work out. The alternative is not attractive.
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hoyabinx
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Post by hoyabinx on Apr 29, 2004 13:05:10 GMT -5
What in the hell is the 1789 fund?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2004 13:09:08 GMT -5
Its an idea DFW had for raising funds for a new arena. I can't find the link, so here's the text:
...let's build the "1789 Club"-a nationwide donor program that aims to raise $25 million for future uses of the basketball program, as follows:
One thousand gifts of $1,000 -are there not a thousand of us who would make a three year pledge for this lofty goal, only $1.00 a day?
Seven hundred gifts of $10,000-are there not seven hundred fans who could commit a four year pledge to form the core giving group of this effort, say, at $2,500 a year?
Eighty gifts of $100,000-are there not eighty constituents (personal or corporate) in the local community who could make the leadership gifts to honor John Thompson in this way?
Nine gifts of $1,000,000-finally, are there not nine members of our Georgetown community, many of whom have distinguished themselves through athletics, that could make the lasting commitment to honor Coach Thompson and the University?
The math: 1,000 at $1,000 = $1 million 700 at $10,000 = $7 million 80 at $100,000 = $8 million 9 at $1,000,000 = $9 million 1,789 donors=$25 million
This is not an arena fund per se. Raising the money as a general restricted fund across all constituents (not just basketball alumni or Hoop Club heavyweights) could help return endowment dollars in the short run with salaries, with scholarships, with recruiting, and with program upkeep. When Georgetown gets the green light on McDonough, it's then ready to go by making the naming gift. And one would be surprised how money talks at a cash-poor university as Georgetown. If the Board of Directors sees a $25 million down payment waiting to be executed, things could move.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 29, 2004 13:13:23 GMT -5
Hoyabinx, Not to judge, but part of your post really gets at a major problem facing the program. You call yourself a "big fan", and the fact that you take the time to post here shows you do care. But as a '92 graduate, I can't accept your comment that going all the way to MCI is a major impediment to attending the games. We had to sit on a yellow school bus with no bathroom for the 50 minute trip to Cap Centre (I sound like my parents here, I know). The apathy of the students in general (certain posters on this board are clearly an exception) is troubling. I know an on campus place would be great and do wonders for the program, but going to MCI shouldn't be reserved for the "hardcore fans". I define hardcore fans as willing to drive from NY to Memphis to see AI's first game. Hardcore fans have missed only 3 G-town BET games since 1989. Hardcore fans decide at 9:00AM on a workday to go to Springfield because of a rumor that HT might be ruled eligible. Taking a 15 minute bus ride does not make one hardcore. Again, I'm not trying to judge, I just think this is a real problem. I know the team has stunk, but students need to support the team, even when it is down. d-TRAIN Three things, D-train. 1. You're right. 2. The level of product determines often who is a long time fan. It's a lot easier to go to every game when it is good basketball with a good chance of winning. Look at Duke. 90% of the Duke alumni I have met that are basketball fans know nothing about the sport. They are Duke Basketball fans only because they win and its a good time. They are not Duke football fans, if you get my drift. Georgetown isn't all that different anymore. 3. Either way, Gtown has the current student body. Bemoaning their lack of commitment does nothing to solve the problem. You have to change with the demographic.
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hoyabinx
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,043
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Post by hoyabinx on Apr 29, 2004 13:13:27 GMT -5
Its an idea DFW had for raising funds for a new arena. I can't find the link, so here's the text: ...let's build the "1789 Club"-a nationwide donor program that aims to raise $25 million for future uses of the basketball program, as follows:
One thousand gifts of $1,000 -are there not a thousand of us who would make a three year pledge for this lofty goal, only $1.00 a day?
Seven hundred gifts of $10,000-are there not seven hundred fans who could commit a four year pledge to form the core giving group of this effort, say, at $2,500 a year?
Eighty gifts of $100,000-are there not eighty constituents (personal or corporate) in the local community who could make the leadership gifts to honor John Thompson in this way?
Nine gifts of $1,000,000-finally, are there not nine members of our Georgetown community, many of whom have distinguished themselves through athletics, that could make the lasting commitment to honor Coach Thompson and the University?
The math: 1,000 at $1,000 = $1 million 700 at $10,000 = $7 million 80 at $100,000 = $8 million 9 at $1,000,000 = $9 million 1,789 donors=$25 million
This is not an arena fund per se. Raising the money as a general restricted fund across all constituents (not just basketball alumni or Hoop Club heavyweights) could help return endowment dollars in the short run with salaries, with scholarships, with recruiting, and with program upkeep. When Georgetown gets the green light on McDonough, it's then ready to go by making the naming gift. And one would be surprised how money talks at a cash-poor university as Georgetown. If the Board of Directors sees a $25 million down payment waiting to be executed, things could move.That is about the most clever thing I have ever heard of, how it all adds up to 1,789 donors. What kind of plans exist to implement it?
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