Georgetown - Fairfield 11/9/2024 Discussion

[MCIGuy]

Nov 10, 2024 15:23:31 GMT -5 saxagael said:

Nov 10, 2024 12:11:26 GMT -5 dense said:

Because it's not official yet.

It is official at the end of a season. During the season it is intent to red shirt and it is rare that a school declares it these days.

That means McKenna must have been treated the same way during the second semester of last season? O course I wasn't bothering to look at those boxscores for, well, you know. I was willfully ignorant.

[kghoya]

Nov 10, 2024 16:14:36 GMT -5 MCIGuy said:

Nov 10, 2024 15:23:31 GMT -5 saxagael said:

It is official at the end of a season. During the season it is intent to red shirt and it is rare that a school declares it these days.

That means McKenna must have been treated the same way during the second semester of last season? O course I wasn't bothering to look at those boxscores for, well, you know. I was willfully ignorant.

McKenna was listed with the other dnps last season.

[SFHoya99]

I was traveling so I only got to see the game today. Some thoughts:

• This is the first game I feel like we really saw the Cooley offense from Providence, including last year. We got a TON of easy buckets off slip screens, off cuts and screens down low and off reactions to aggressive / fronting post defense. We were looking for the open guy right at the bucket and found them for at least 10 buckets.
• I don't know if he picked to play for Cooley because of this, but Sorber does fit really well in this roll. He's very mobile, moved very smartly down low to find these spots, and has great hands. A ton of easy buckets for him because he played smart / we designed plays to get him the ball in very good locations. He's already pick up a nice slip to get behind and force a fronting, and he has a knack for crashing the lane. The baseline jumper was also very nice.
• My favorite offensive play of the game, though, was actually one that failed. In the first half, Fairfield went briefly to a 2-3 zone. It took the team only a couple of passes to recognize it and hit Sorber at the high post. He tried a pass to Julius underneath the basket and it went out of boards off Fairield (and they went back to man to man), but the team recognition of what to do was really nice to see.
• The defense was a several degrees more consistent. I thought we saw improved perimeter play -- Mulready and McKenna both played very well defensively, especially for freshment, and even Epps was improved. We still gave up more boards than we needed to and had a few too many breakdowns, but a huge improvement that seems like there's still plenty of upside. Still, a decent number of open threes and Notre Dame seems like a tougher combo -- we will see. They are shooting 48% from 3 so far this season.
• We really should have pulled ahead by more, but our decision making was pretty sloppy with the ball. Mack had a rough game -- he can get to the hoop, but between his shot choices and turnovers plus getting picked on a bit on D ... he's got to improve. He can't get bigger, but he can make smarter decisions. Overall, the whole team was sloppy with the ball but the TOs plus that shooting %...
• I don't think we're going to improve the 3 pt shooting and I'm tentatively hopeful the defense keeps improving ... the key stat for us may end up being those turnovers.
• Peavy was a defensive beast for sure ... but could not finish all day and also ... some struggling decision making at key moments as well. I wonder if this is more of what we will get with Peavy or whether game 1 Peavy will show up more. He clearly can slash -- so how will the finishing at the rim be?
• McKenna certainly looks like a player. Moves well, has the right size, moves and shoots confidently. Looking forward to seeing more.
• I always liked the Cooley teams were everyone rebounds and everyone defends the rim; I'm good with that here.

[professorhoya]

Nov 10, 2024 12:56:58 GMT -5 MCIGuy said:

Nov 10, 2024 7:57:17 GMT -5 professorhoya said:

Jordan Burke.
He doesn’t need the ball to have a huge impact.
He’s one of the the players I’ve been most impressed with.
His 7-2 length, lateral quickness and athleticism make him a plus defender at this level.

Him and Peavy help alleviate the defensive deficiencies of Epps.
He’s able to switch 1-5 which means there’s a constant rim protection and defensive presence down low.
He offers rim protection and hits the board hard.
9.8 reb per 40 and 1.6 blks per 40.

On offense we have alot of scorers in Mack, Epps, sorber, peavy.
Burke provides an offensive rebounding presence and a 7-2 athletic safety valve when players are trapped.

Fielder needs to shoot to be effective but we have too many scorers on the first unit so Burks is a much better fit.

We may have a lot of scorers in the first unit but do we have a lot of legit shooters? With all this talk about how the three-point shooting has been a problem so far, why sit a guy like Fielder who can actually spread the court? Don't trust Peavy's outside shot enough at this point to want Burke in that staring five as well. Not yet.

It actually doesn’t matter if he can shoot or not because whoever the power forward is will be the fifth option and not get many attempts. If you are saying just stick him in the corner to catch and shoot 3s, he’s really not gonna see the ball as the 3 primary scorers are Epps, Mack, Sorber. Then Peavy is the 4th option. These 4 will have the ball in their hands 90% of the time and Fielder will just be standing there on the perimeter which means we aren’t utilizing his 6-10 size and he won’t be available to offensive rebound.

[Ranch Dressing]

My 2 biggest concerns after the first two games (repeating a lot of what has been said above):

1) 3-point shooting. While several players have flashed the ability to knock down an open 3, it's unclear to me at this point how reliable this aspect of the offense is going to be and who we are going to really feature in this part of the offense. I think the offense has struggled a little bit to find open spots outside the arc, as I've seen several contested 3s that were not good shots.

2) Mack/Epps backcourt - this is going to take some time, and probably will improve throughout the course of the season. However, at this point, it seems like our ball possession and decision-making is suspect at times. 14 turnovers between the 2 players in the first 2 games is concerning given the level of competition. I'm not seeing the immediate benefit of Epps playing off Mack than I thought I would - that is to say, I don't see Epps routinely finding off-ball open shots/favorable matchup switches within the flow of the offense. While not tiny, both guards will be on the smaller end in BE competition, so this may hurt our 3-point defense as well. I will say that Mack has shown some really nice flashes of potential, and so I think he might be able to put together a solid Big East campaign with continued improvement and settling into this new level. This is a big step up in competition and it will take some adjustment - although Lehigh and Fairfield are probably similar to much of Harvard's competition last year and so that has me a little worried. Mack does appear to have unusually long arms, so I think that might make him play ~2 inches taller than his listed height of 6'2". I think this may lead to more tipped balls and effective 3-point contests/close-outs on defense and ability to get shots off compared to the average guard of the same listed height.

[jester]

What would have to be true, for us to stagger Mack and Epps more? if they are somewhat redundant in style? I see the plus for more ball handlers but if that comes at expense of defense and TOs, curious

[SFHoya99]

Nov 11, 2024 10:51:27 GMT -5 Ranch Dressing said:

My 2 biggest concerns after the first two games (repeating a lot of what has been said above):

1) 3-point shooting. While several players have flashed the ability to knock down an open 3, it's unclear to me at this point how reliable this aspect of the offense is going to be and who we are going to really feature in this part of the offense. I think the offense has struggled a little bit to find open spots outside the arc, as I've seen several contested 3s that were not good shots.

2) Mack/Epps backcourt - this is going to take some time, and probably will improve throughout the course of the season. However, at this point, it seems like our ball possession and decision-making is suspect at times. 14 turnovers between the 2 players in the first 2 games is concerning given the level of competition. I'm not seeing the immediate benefit of Epps playing off Mack than I thought I would - that is to say, I don't see Epps routinely finding off-ball open shots/favorable matchup switches within the flow of the offense. While not tiny, both guards will be on the smaller end in BE competition, so this may hurt our 3-point defense as well. I will say that Mack has shown some really nice flashes of potential, and so I think he might be able to put together a solid Big East campaign with continued improvement and settling into this new level. This is a big step up in competition and it will take some adjustment - although Lehigh and Fairfield are probably similar to much of Harvard's competition last year and so that has me a little worried. Mack does appear to have unusually long arms, so I think that might make him play ~2 inches taller than his listed height of 6'2". I think this may lead to more tipped balls and effective 3-point contests/close-outs on defense and ability to get shots off compared to the average guard of the same listed height.

I don't think the 3 point shooting is coming. If we see situations where we start to push Epps more as an offensive option, we might see some of his hot games, but I don't know why we think this team would suddenly be a good three point shooting team. I think we should a BIT better -- ~32% instead of ~26% ... but we don't have shooters.

The Mack/Epps backcourt isn't great right now, but I find it really odd how much people are putting this on Epps and not Mack. Epps has sat back and let others score; he's pushing to get the ball into Sorber. Despite too many turnovers, he's got a 118 offensive efficiency.

It's Mack who was supposed to be a point guard but is absolutely shoot first. It's Mack who has a sub 90 efficiency because his shot selection is terrible so far and his passing has been turnover prone. It's also Mack who has been, by far, the worse defensive player of the two, at least in results. Epps was pretty good against Fairfield; Mack got picked on all game.

It's not that Epps isn't finding spots; it's that Mack is playing like Epps did last year. He's simply been poor at finding guys, at running the offense, and his shot selection absolutely has seemed more like "hey, it's my turn to shoot" than really finding good shots.

We should always be staggering, but I absolutely do think it'd be a disaster to get more Mulready over Mack right now. But the #1 thing that could happen here is that Mack settles down and becomes more of the player we want.

Mack clearly has power 5 quickness and speed, so I'm not as worried about the translation. I also think the three point shooting will come around.

But he's got to be looking more pass and less shot, period. He's got to stop forcing stuff.

The three biggest transitional improvements he needs to do:

1. Run the offense. He's not distributing well, and the ball is stopping a lot with him. He's got a lower assist rate than he had last year, and a lower rate than Epps had last year. Or Brumbaugh. Some of that is a lack of three point shooting, but it's not good enough even with that.

2. He doesn't use his teammates with his offense yet. Epps will run pick and roll, will play off screens, especially those sort of drop/slip screens Cooley loves. Mack doesn't -- he has actually waved off prospective screens to go straight one on one. Even his best play against Fairfield -- the dish to Sorber at the end of the game ... Sorber is coming from an independent spot, not actually as part of a typical play where the joint action creates the open player. He's new to the team and probably didn't need to at Harvard, so hopefully he adds this. Especially since this is going to be a core strength of our bigs.

3. Zero FTs and some real struggles inside tells me the biggest adjustment is going to be readjusting how he finishes inside to better comp. We're not even playing better comp yet, but guys his and Epps' size need to find ways to finish over bigger guys and find ways to draw fouls. Epps is not so great at the former but seems to have improved but is pretty good at the latter. I'm not sure Mack is good at either.

[SFHoya99]

Nov 11, 2024 12:06:30 GMT -5 jester said:

What would have to be true, for us to stagger Mack and Epps more? if they are somewhat redundant in style? I see the plus for more ball handlers but if that comes at expense of defense and TOs, curious

Probably for Mulready or Curtis to step up.

I actually suspect that we will see both of them get more time as we go -- both with improvement from Mulready but also just as we put more of a premium on defense. That said, I'm not sure we will be able to expect much offense from either. And maybe almost none from Curtis.

I think it is just as likely that Mack settles in a bit better.

[MCIGuy]

Watching the entire game yesterday I noticed how much Cooley had Thomas and Julius on the court at the same time. A handful of folks have been claiming this would be the end result with Julius starting eventually, perhaps January. Still I did not expect Cooley to do this much test-running this early into the season by having the two of them share the floor at this stage. I guess it only works if Thomas can guard the four on the perimeter.

[hoyaguy]

Nov 11, 2024 12:52:09 GMT -5 MCIGuy said:

Watching the entire game yesterday I noticed how much Cooley had Thomas and Julius on the court at the same time. A handful of folks have been claiming this would be the end result with Julius starting eventually, perhaps January. Still I did not expect Cooley to do this much test-running this early into the season by having the two of them share the floor at this stage. I guess it only works if Thomas can guard the four on the perimeter.

True, compared to last season Cooley seems more flexible at least for now to experiment. I can absolutely see Thomas and Julius being the front court more as the season goes on. The biggest caveats being that Julius gets in better shape he seemed to get tired fast (tho he was injured before so understandable), everyone staying healthy to provide depth, and like you said Thomas being able to guard 4s which like Fielder may be very dependent on matchup at least for now. We will see more about its viability in the non conference games against P4 competition.

[EtomicB]

Nov 11, 2024 12:52:09 GMT -5 MCIGuy said:

Watching the entire game yesterday I noticed how much Cooley had Thomas and Julius on the court at the same time. A handful of folks have been claiming this would be the end result with Julius starting eventually, perhaps January. Still I did not expect Cooley to do this much test-running this early into the season by having the two of them share the floor at this stage. I guess it only works if Thomas can guard the four on the perimeter.

I'm not surprised, coaches want to play their best players whenever possible. I love it...

I get that this could be nitpicky but it's not whether Sorber can guard the 4, it's whether the combination of Sorber & JH can be effective enough defensively to offset the positives that they'll bring on the offensive end of the court.

Really should have added in all the starters as well.

[jwp91]

Nov 11, 2024 12:52:09 GMT -5 MCIGuy said:

Watching the entire game yesterday I noticed how much Cooley had Thomas and Julius on the court at the same time. A handful of folks have been claiming this would be the end result with Julius starting eventually, perhaps January. Still I did not expect Cooley to do this much test-running this early into the season by having the two of them share the floor at this stage. I guess it only works if Thomas can guard the four on the perimeter.

Offensively, I like Sorber in the paint and Julius on the perimeter. Julius is very skilled, but he has not shown having good hands. Meanwhile, Julius's 3 point form looks pretty good.

I am concerned about Sorber defending the 4. At one point in the last game, he seemed like a plodder to me. I can't imagine he could keep up with a Karaban, but I guess why you have different pieces like Burks. If we are not dictating things on our terms, Sorber at 4 could become a bad match-up.

[SFHoya99]

Nov 11, 2024 13:40:04 GMT -5 jwp91 said:

Nov 11, 2024 12:52:09 GMT -5 MCIGuy said:

Watching the entire game yesterday I noticed how much Cooley had Thomas and Julius on the court at the same time. A handful of folks have been claiming this would be the end result with Julius starting eventually, perhaps January. Still I did not expect Cooley to do this much test-running this early into the season by having the two of them share the floor at this stage. I guess it only works if Thomas can guard the four on the perimeter.

Offensively, I like Sorber in the paint and Julius on the perimeter. Julius is very skilled, but he has not shown having good hands. Meanwhile, Julius's 3 point form looks pretty good.

I am concerned about Sorber defending the 4. At one point in the last game, he seemed like a plodder to me. I can't imagine he could keep up with a Karaban, but I guess why you have different pieces like Burks. If we are not dictating things on our terms, Sorber at 4 could become a bad match-up.

I think plodder would be the wrong word. I think he's very quick for his size and seems to move through space very quickly, at least moving forward. He got a ton of baskets outquicking his defender, coming down the lane, getting rebounds. It wasn't a high major team, but I think he's mobile.

That, however, is not lateral movement from a complete standstill where you are trying to guard both directions. And it's not in relation to a four who is really a three out in space. It's simply a next level to deal with that, especially when trying to avoid giving up a three.

I think he's clearly the best suited of the three, but I suspect there are simply match ups that will work and ones that don't.

I also don't know if we are single minded enough to force the issue offensively enough to punish someone going small. If you are going to play that game, you have to be ruthless in your decision making. Every time you don't attack their small 4 with your big is a mistake if you are going to leave a mismatch out there.

[Ranch Dressing]

Nov 11, 2024 12:52:09 GMT -5 MCIGuy said:

Watching the entire game yesterday I noticed how much Cooley had Thomas and Julius on the court at the same time. A handful of folks have been claiming this would be the end result with Julius starting eventually, perhaps January. Still I did not expect Cooley to do this much test-running this early into the season by having the two of them share the floor at this stage. I guess it only works if Thomas can guard the four on the perimeter.

Agreed, but remember that Fielder was a DNP, so that opened up quite a bit of minutes and more playing time in combination with the 2 players.

Clearly, Sorber looks like an All-Big East potential player within Year 2. And I don't have much concern about his ability to guard 4s. He is quick and has length.

And Julius has shown me more than I would have expected at this point. I was fearing that injuries, lack of conditioning, and slow footwork was really going to hamper his play, especially early-on. But he looked very fluid, coordinated, and not out of shape, really. Decision-making is immediately suspect, (how many 3s a game are we looking at from Julius, tendency to float out to the perimeter on offense, cringey behind the back dribble in the lane, etc.). On the other hand, the shot looks super smooth and repeatable and he takes up a LOT of space in the middle. With more playing time, aerobic conditioning, and strength/speed work, I would hope he develops into a more active rebounder and rim protector.

I'll chalk this up to first game jitters and lack of experience, but he had a few occasions of poor ball catching. Again, he seems fluid and coordinated, so I do not think he will be a liability catching the ball once he's fully up to speed.