Georgetown - Lehigh 11/6/24 Discussion

[DFW HOYA]

Nov 6, 2024 15:48:02 GMT -5 thedragon said:

I can't buy into this. 14 new players. Starting a true freshman at center. Almost every BE team at our level struggled to some degree with inferior opponents. We need to win comfortably in the end but setting expectations of a 20+ blowout or bust based on our recent history feels off to me.

There are 12 new players and five returnees.

[thedragon]

I feel like I heard Cooley say 14 several times but maybe I'm remembering wrong. Looking at roster- 12, you're right. But point remains.

[prhoya]

Nov 6, 2024 17:32:23 GMT -5 thedragon said:

I feel like I heard Cooley say 14 several times but maybe I'm remembering wrong. Looking at roster- 12, you're right. But point remains.

That’s right. Cooley said 14.

[MCIGuy]

Nov 6, 2024 17:06:48 GMT -5 SFHoya99 said:

Nov 6, 2024 16:57:10 GMT -5 calhoya said:

We are all victims of PTSD at this point given the horrendous product we have seen on the floor these past few seasons. However, the mindset among some that it's going to take several years to be good again needs to change. If it does take that time it would be very disappointing.

The realities of college basketball now are that most teams are starting over or at least incorporating a significant amount of new talent each year. Perhaps not 14 new players. When I find myself setting the bar so low that I am ready to accept mediocre as a sign of improvement I think I am just copping out to prepare for the worst. St. Johns turned their program around in one year and is now considered tournament worthy.

We have a proven coach, unlike his predecessor. We have players entering the season with some pedigree from their prior basketball careers. I agree that winning at this point based upon talent and not necessarily quality of play is both understandable and acceptable but only to the point that it becomes a first step in a process that will come together quickly over the next few months.

I go into the season seeing an upgrade in talent--at least on paper. I see a successful coach who oversold the program last year and has much to prove and hopefully a chip on his shoulder. I see an OOC schedule conducive to a strong winning record entering conference play. I am cautiously optimistic about the direction of a team that still appears to have a shortage of perimeter shooting and a lot of unproven players. If the talent is what we have been told then winning comfortably tonight is a reasonable expectation from this team and coach. Looking forward to a new beginning and an escape from the misery of the past several seasons.

We're going to be better than most independent pundits are predicting. I don't know where that is in the Big East because I really don't pay attention to other teams anymore. I just have trouble predicting a very strong season because we are so young. I've compared this team to JTIII's first, and that team had a core of pretty good juniors, but still faded when the freshmen tired late season. It's tough to rely on this much youth, especially when we still have some COVID seniors hanging around, I think, on other teams.

I understand why the comparison to St. John's in terms of a reboot, but the far closer comparison, unfortunately, is DePaul. St. John's under Mike Anderson wasn't good, but they were closer to .500 than anything over the last few years. Whereas we were atrocious, and haven't hit .500 in conference this decade. We'll see how our strategy compares to DePaul's and SJU, for that matter. But do we think we even could have had a shot at Kadary Richardson, for example? I don't know.

I am tentatively optimistic. More than anything, I really just want to see a team get better. I still remember the defensive switch that flipped in January of 2007 - it was fantastic to watch that team become a juggernaut.

This team got the key "older" pieces it needed in the portal except for center. And f getting that center means we would have not gotten Julius or felt no need to pursue him in the first place, then I am overjoyed we missed out on overpaying some five whose years of experience is more impressive than his talent. I'll take talent over experience for the vast majority of guys if I had the opportunity to choose.

[jackofjoy]

Nov 6, 2024 17:06:48 GMT -5 SFHoya99 said:

Nov 6, 2024 16:57:10 GMT -5 calhoya said:

We are all victims of PTSD at this point given the horrendous product we have seen on the floor these past few seasons. However, the mindset among some that it's going to take several years to be good again needs to change. If it does take that time it would be very disappointing.

The realities of college basketball now are that most teams are starting over or at least incorporating a significant amount of new talent each year. Perhaps not 14 new players. When I find myself setting the bar so low that I am ready to accept mediocre as a sign of improvement I think I am just copping out to prepare for the worst. St. Johns turned their program around in one year and is now considered tournament worthy.

We have a proven coach, unlike his predecessor. We have players entering the season with some pedigree from their prior basketball careers. I agree that winning at this point based upon talent and not necessarily quality of play is both understandable and acceptable but only to the point that it becomes a first step in a process that will come together quickly over the next few months.

I go into the season seeing an upgrade in talent--at least on paper. I see a successful coach who oversold the program last year and has much to prove and hopefully a chip on his shoulder. I see an OOC schedule conducive to a strong winning record entering conference play. I am cautiously optimistic about the direction of a team that still appears to have a shortage of perimeter shooting and a lot of unproven players. If the talent is what we have been told then winning comfortably tonight is a reasonable expectation from this team and coach. Looking forward to a new beginning and an escape from the misery of the past several seasons.

We're going to be better than most independent pundits are predicting. I don't know where that is in the Big East because I really don't pay attention to other teams anymore. I just have trouble predicting a very strong season because we are so young. I've compared this team to JTIII's first, and that team had a core of pretty good juniors, but still faded when the freshmen tired late season. It's tough to rely on this much youth, especially when we still have some COVID seniors hanging around, I think, on other teams.

I understand why the comparison to St. John's in terms of a reboot, but the far closer comparison, unfortunately, is DePaul. St. John's under Mike Anderson wasn't good, but they were closer to .500 than anything over the last few years. Whereas we were atrocious, and haven't hit .500 in conference this decade. We'll see how our strategy compares to DePaul's and SJU, for that matter. But do we think we even could have had a shot at Kadary Richardson, for example? I don't know.

I am tentatively optimistic. More than anything, I really just want to see a team get better. I still remember the defensive switch that flipped in January of 2007 - it was fantastic to watch that team become a juggernaut.

That would still be a massive improvement - that team might have faded but ended 19-15 and 8-8 BE with an ok NIT performance


Of course would still have the naysayers saying "are we paying Ed Cooley $6,000,000,000,000,000 for a .500 BE record"?

[jackofjoy]

Nov 6, 2024 17:29:17 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

Nov 6, 2024 15:48:02 GMT -5 thedragon said:

I can't buy into this. 14 new players. Starting a true freshman at center. Almost every BE team at our level struggled to some degree with inferior opponents. We need to win comfortably in the end but setting expectations of a 20+ blowout or bust based on our recent history feels off to me.

There are 12 new players and five returnees.

You don't believe Donnie Marshall?

[traversb]

Nov 6, 2024 14:57:46 GMT -5 thedragon said:

Nov 6, 2024 14:40:16 GMT -5 traversb said:

Not sure what the hedge is. If we are giving up open shots today it's a bad sign for the season. Northwestern was up on them by 36 at half and 50 when they called the dogs off. If you watched the game it didn't feel that close. Northwestern isn't exactly the 1990 Runnin Rebels. What are we expected to learn from this game? 

This feels a little unfair to me. They shot horribly from 3 against NW and it spiraled. They're not a good team but if we were up 10 at half that would exceed vegas expectations. Not to mention they have a game under their belt and we're debuting a million new faces. Are my expectations to win comfortably? Yes. But that NW game feels more aberration than likely outcome.

Id like to see us dominate the glass. Get open shots on ball movement. And show an improved connectivity on defense. Any win in double figures would be a success in my book.

I am not expecting us to win by near the margin Northwestern did but I do think we should be able to bring in the deep bench with plenty of time left to get them real experience. If this game doesn't get to 20 at some point I would be surprised. If it doesn't finish there because we emptied the benches very early that is fine. You have to remember we beat La Moyne by 37 last year and at least for now the two teams are ranked pretty similarly. The Vegas line is much too low in my opinion. Vegas never adjusts enough when teams get a bunch of new players. That can mean some lines are way too high or way too low depending if its a talent gain or talent loss situation. In our case it's a big talent gain. Those lines adjust fairly quickly once games start being played but if you keep track of player movement you can exploit the lines early.

edit - If Lehigh makes 4 more 3s they shoot 35% and still lose by 32. They only shot 17 3s so it wasn't like the bad 3 point shooting was the reason they got blown out. They can't do anything well and they play small so they can't rebound.

[jwp91]

I don't know about you guys, but this game is a timely escape from a bad week. I am glad the season is upon us.

[SFHoya99]

Nov 6, 2024 17:48:36 GMT -5 MCIGuy said:

This team got the key "older" pieces it needed in the portal except for center. And f getting that center means we would have not gotten Julius or felt no need to pursue him in the first place, then I am overjoyed we missed out on overpaying some five whose years of experience is more impressive than his talent. I'll take talent over experience for the vast majority of guys if I had the opportunity to choose.

I love the roster ... but we have two upperclassmen and even the group of sophomores has only one player who started last year. It's very young and inexperienced, that's all.

[kettlehill]

To me one of the most interesting things I am looking for- aside from the competitiveness of our kids- is the ability of Epps to become a "team scorer" as opposed to his performance last year. If Mack is truly allowed to run the O and Epps is not the dominant force- I think they will be alright. If Epps reverts to the default Offense of last year...I don't know.
I do like Epps- I think that he is an elite scorer, but if Cooley allows or even encourages last years solo ball, not good.

[cthoya16]

Hopefully this year is finally the year our program gets back on the track to big East and then national relevance! I very much believe in Ed and the young talent on this roster to grow into a competitive team. A strong Hoyas performance tonight would be a nice morale boost too

[HometownHoya]

Good ball movement to start off

[HometownHoya]

Sober is quick and decisive both with the 3 and the post move.

[HometownHoya]

5th try and it goes in! Pad those rebounding stats 😄

[HometownHoya]

A lot of switching on D leading to unfavorable mismatches

[LoudSoundOfREBOUND]

Julius first off the bench?

[SDHoya]

D not doing well. Maybe just first game jitters?

[traversb]

This defense has certainly failed the first 4 minute test. It's early but 3 layups off the dribble and 2 wide open 3s is bad deja vu.

[HometownHoya]

Peavy bringing the ball up and initiating while Epps is on the court

[cthoya16]

Lehigh matched their first half total vs Northwestern in 5 minutes, that’s less than ideal