Georgetown - Lehigh 11/6/24 Discussion

[hoyaguy]

Nov 6, 2024 11:55:31 GMT -5 jwp91 said:

According to Ron, the coaches definitely think they need to get as many easy baskets as possible to take the pressure off of the half-court offense. Pushing the pace in transition has been a theme in practice this fall.

I think that’s understandable as we aren’t sure how a lot of the young guys are going to play in competitive games. And it was such a massive weakness last season that I can see it being a point of emphasis by Cooley regardless of who we got.

[HometownHoya]

What coach would say "We dont want easy baskets". Any team should try to push it in transition, the question is if you have the athletes and the passing to do so successfully. Even if you don't get the easy basket, you get into your offense sooner.

The only time it makes sense to slow the game down is when you are disadvantaged and need to keep the game close hoping for a good shooting day (or misses by the opponent) to get you the W.

[EtomicB]

Nov 6, 2024 12:51:49 GMT -5 thedragon said:

EtomicB theres been a few clips of Cooley using those exact words "we want to play fast". Ron posted the media avail from Monday and Cooley brought it up specifically.

I just listened for the 2nd time & I didn't hear him say we want to play fast or even a question about the style of play in this clip. Unless you're referring to his comment about being better in transition.

We'll get a good sense of the style of play tonight & in the coming games(ND will be a big test)

[EtomicB]

Nov 6, 2024 12:56:33 GMT -5 HometownHoya said:

What coach would say "We dont want easy baskets". Any team should try to push it in transition, the question is if you have the athletes and the passing to do so successfully. Even if you don't get the easy basket, you get into your offense sooner.

The only time it makes sense to slow the game down is when you are disadvantaged and need to keep the game close hoping for a good shooting day (or misses by the opponent) to get you the W.

100% agree.

I read his "play fast" comments to mean get into your stuff as quickly as possible which is far different than how Alabama or Illinois plays

[thedragon]

Nov 6, 2024 13:23:10 GMT -5 EtomicB said:

Nov 6, 2024 12:51:49 GMT -5 thedragon said:

EtomicB theres been a few clips of Cooley using those exact words "we want to play fast". Ron posted the media avail from Monday and Cooley brought it up specifically.

I just listened for the 2nd time & I didn't hear him say we want to play fast or even a question about the style of play in this clip. Unless you're referring to his comment about being better in transition.

We'll get a good sense of the style of play tonight & in the coming games(ND will be a big test)

In answering question about Lehigh matchup "we want to play fast we want to play physical...". Anytime he's been interviewed about style or attacking an opponent he's brought up playing fast. Ron has emphasize that at practice this is a huge point of emphasis as well as others have noted. Maybe just coach speak but it certainly has been mentioned a bunch this offseason

[EtomicB]

Nov 6, 2024 13:46:36 GMT -5 thedragon said:

Nov 6, 2024 13:23:10 GMT -5 EtomicB said:

I just listened for the 2nd time & I didn't hear him say we want to play fast or even a question about the style of play in this clip. Unless you're referring to his comment about being better in transition.

We'll get a good sense of the style of play tonight & in the coming games(ND will be a big test)

In answering question about Lehigh matchup "we want to play fast we want to play physical...". Anytime he's been interviewed about style or attacking an opponent he's brought up playing fast. Ron has emphasize that at practice this is a huge point of emphasis as well as others have noted. Maybe just coach speak but it certainly has been mentioned a bunch this offseason

Good catch Dragon, I'll be honest I didn't hear him say that the 1st two times I listened.

[professorhoya]

Nov 5, 2024 18:53:05 GMT -5 traversb said:

Lehigh is awful and we should feast on them. The things that will likely hurt us this year they can't exploit. This should be a very easy win whatever you consider that. I would think it should look like le Moyne last year though. I don't think we will learn much outside of rotations and maybe one or two of the bench players flashes and gives us something to be happy about. Only thing I will be looking at is if the guards get beat off the dribble and if so are we are giving up wide open 3s. Lehigh won't make them but it will be a warning sign like it has been the past few years.

A Hoyaboya hedge.

[traversb]

Nov 6, 2024 14:03:38 GMT -5 professorhoya said:

Nov 5, 2024 18:53:05 GMT -5 traversb said:

Lehigh is awful and we should feast on them. The things that will likely hurt us this year they can't exploit. This should be a very easy win whatever you consider that. I would think it should look like le Moyne last year though. I don't think we will learn much outside of rotations and maybe one or two of the bench players flashes and gives us something to be happy about. Only thing I will be looking at is if the guards get beat off the dribble and if so are we are giving up wide open 3s. Lehigh won't make them but it will be a warning sign like it has been the past few years.

A Hoyaboya hedge.

Not sure what the hedge is. If we are giving up open shots today it's a bad sign for the season. Northwestern was up on them by 36 at half and 50 when they called the dogs off. If you watched the game it didn't feel that close. Northwestern isn't exactly the 1990 Runnin Rebels. What are we expected to learn from this game? 

[thedragon]

Nov 6, 2024 14:40:16 GMT -5 traversb said:

Nov 6, 2024 14:03:38 GMT -5 professorhoya said:

A Hoyaboya hedge.

Not sure what the hedge is. If we are giving up open shots today it's a bad sign for the season. Northwestern was up on them by 36 at half and 50 when they called the dogs off. If you watched the game it didn't feel that close. Northwestern isn't exactly the 1990 Runnin Rebels. What are we expected to learn from this game? 

This feels a little unfair to me. They shot horribly from 3 against NW and it spiraled. They're not a good team but if we were up 10 at half that would exceed vegas expectations. Not to mention they have a game under their belt and we're debuting a million new faces. Are my expectations to win comfortably? Yes. But that NW game feels more aberration than likely outcome.

Id like to see us dominate the glass. Get open shots on ball movement. And show an improved connectivity on defense. Any win in double figures would be a success in my book.

[hoyasaxa2003]

In his 18 completed seasons as a head coach, Ed Cooley's fasted paced team has been ranked 129, followed by 150. So the FASTEST Cooley teams have been only slightly faster than average, and in many, many, years, slower than average. At Providence, his fastest paced team was 129, slowest was 270. Last year we were 237.

I think others are likely correct that Cooley likely means more getting into our actions quickly, getting back quickly, getting set up for defense quickly, rather than a fast pace. Under JT3, a lot of people focused on pace because his initial teams were so slow (but excellent). In later years, JT3 teams got faster, but he couldn't shake the Princeton slow reputation. To me, I don't care about pace. Ewing had really fast paced teams and it was miserable to watch them.

I'll take whatever pace maximizes winning, be it hugely slow or very fast.

[smokeyjack]

Nov 6, 2024 14:57:46 GMT -5 thedragon said:

Nov 6, 2024 14:40:16 GMT -5 traversb said:

Not sure what the hedge is. If we are giving up open shots today it's a bad sign for the season. Northwestern was up on them by 36 at half and 50 when they called the dogs off. If you watched the game it didn't feel that close. Northwestern isn't exactly the 1990 Runnin Rebels. What are we expected to learn from this game? 

This feels a little unfair to me. They shot horribly from 3 against NW and it spiraled. They're not a good team but if we were up 10 at half that would exceed vegas expectations. Not to mention they have a game under their belt and we're debuting a million new faces. Are my expectations to win comfortably? Yes. But that NW game feels more aberration than likely outcome.

Id like to see us dominate the glass. Get open shots on ball movement. And show an improved connectivity on defense. Any win in double figures would be a success in my book.

Not at all. Anything but a total bloodbath will be a harbinger of disappointment. I don't think anyone expects this GU team to compete for a BE title or NCAA bid, but Lehigh stinks...bigly. We finally have a roster loaded with talented, if young, guys playing at home against a bunch of scrubs. You need to run them out of the building to set the tone for the season. Same with Fairfield, btw. Really need to win these first two by combined 50+. Anything less would be...unfortunate. The why IMO is because Cooley stresses the three Es (Effort, Energy and Enthusiasm). Buy-in to that code leads to great D...which barring aberrations in shooting (crazy cold nights from 3) lead to blowouts against inferior competition. You run teams out with effort. That's what I want to see more than anything else - 40 minutes of intensity on the defensive end. If that happens, blowouts will follow. 

[SDHoya]

I don't need to see the Hoyas win this one by 40. But it would be nice to see a complete and dominant performance which allows for Cooley to cycle in the second team during a comfortable second half.

[SFHoya99]

Nov 6, 2024 15:06:59 GMT -5 smokeyjack said:

Not at all. Anything but a total bloodbath will be a harbinger of disappointment. I don't think anyone expects this GU team to compete for a BE title or NCAA bid, but Lehigh stinks...bigly.

Lehigh sucked against Northwestern, but that's one data point. They aren't good -- most of the sites have us as a 16 or 17 point favorite at home. But they haven't historically been nor are they expected to be a LeMoyne-level team.

Maybe they are, but I don't get the level of surety that all that prior history and evaluations are so completely wrong.

As long as it is not close by the end and we're pulling away by midgame, I'm fine. Ideally, I'd like to see them out-talent them.

[hoyasaxa2003]

Nov 6, 2024 15:21:24 GMT -5 SFHoya99 said:

Nov 6, 2024 15:06:59 GMT -5 smokeyjack said:

Not at all. Anything but a total bloodbath will be a harbinger of disappointment. I don't think anyone expects this GU team to compete for a BE title or NCAA bid, but Lehigh stinks...bigly.

Lehigh sucked against Northwestern, but that's one data point. They aren't good -- most of the sites have us as a 16 or 17 point favorite at home. But they haven't historically been nor are they expected to be a LeMoyne-level team.

Maybe they are, but I don't get the level of surety that all that prior history and evaluations are so completely wrong.

As long as it is not close by the end and we're pulling away by midgame, I'm fine. Ideally, I'd like to see them out-talent them.

This. I want to see a team on the court that is so dominant athletically and talent-wise that even if we do a lot of things poorly, we will still dominate and comfortably win. That's my wish for Game 1.

My wish for Game 2 and beyond is to win several games in a row given that we have no real tests for a while. The last few years we have basically known our season was over right after it began by either losing the opener or shortly thereafter, like last year. Even if we aren't good, it'd be nice to keep up the hope (and fan interest) beyond one or two games.

I think whether we see a lot of the roster depends on how the game goes. If we are up by 30-40, will Cooley let the lower end of the bench get minutes? Maybe. If it's closer, probably not. Keep in mind that there is also a need to have your starters and high usage guys gel in real game situations too. So it's really a balance. I am really fine with either approach. If the top 7-8 guys need most of the time to gel, that's fine with me. If we have circumstances allowing us to go deeper than that (and we really should), then all the better and let's see the end of the roster, too.

[concord]

My expectations are to see the Hoyas win and cover, to see Malik Mack ball out, and to get a look at as many of the new members of the roster as possible. Specifically, I'd love to see Mulready get some playing time with these OOC cupcakes if health permits.

[SFHoya99]

Nov 6, 2024 15:28:53 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

Nov 6, 2024 15:21:24 GMT -5 SFHoya99 said:

Lehigh sucked against Northwestern, but that's one data point. They aren't good -- most of the sites have us as a 16 or 17 point favorite at home. But they haven't historically been nor are they expected to be a LeMoyne-level team.

Maybe they are, but I don't get the level of surety that all that prior history and evaluations are so completely wrong.

As long as it is not close by the end and we're pulling away by midgame, I'm fine. Ideally, I'd like to see them out-talent them.

This. I want to see a team on the court that is so dominant athletically and talent-wise that even if we do a lot of things poorly, we will still dominate and comfortably win. That's my wish for Game 1.

My wish for Game 2 and beyond is to win several games in a row given that we have no real tests for a while. The last few years we have basically known our season was over right after it began by either losing the opener or shortly thereafter, like last year. Even if we aren't good, it'd be nice to keep up the hope (and fan interest) beyond one or two games.

Yeah, it's weird. I want us to play well and show signs of coaching. But probably the best indicator that we are better than people think will be winning entirely on size and athleticism and talent rather than actually playing well.

[thedragon]

"Anything but a total bloodbath will be a harbinger of disappointment."

I can't buy into this. 14 new players. Starting a true freshman at center. Almost every BE team at our level struggled to some degree with inferior opponents. We need to win comfortably in the end but setting expectations of a 20+ blowout or bust based on our recent history feels off to me.

[hoyas315]

[calhoya]

We are all victims of PTSD at this point given the horrendous product we have seen on the floor these past few seasons. However, the mindset among some that it's going to take several years to be good again needs to change. If it does take that time it would be very disappointing.

The realities of college basketball now are that most teams are starting over or at least incorporating a significant amount of new talent each year. Perhaps not 14 new players. When I find myself setting the bar so low that I am ready to accept mediocre as a sign of improvement I think I am just copping out to prepare for the worst. St. Johns turned their program around in one year and is now considered tournament worthy.

We have a proven coach, unlike his predecessor. We have players entering the season with some pedigree from their prior basketball careers. I agree that winning at this point based upon talent and not necessarily quality of play is both understandable and acceptable but only to the point that it becomes a first step in a process that will come together quickly over the next few months.

I go into the season seeing an upgrade in talent--at least on paper. I see a successful coach who oversold the program last year and has much to prove and hopefully a chip on his shoulder. I see an OOC schedule conducive to a strong winning record entering conference play. I am cautiously optimistic about the direction of a team that still appears to have a shortage of perimeter shooting and a lot of unproven players. If the talent is what we have been told then winning comfortably tonight is a reasonable expectation from this team and coach. Looking forward to a new beginning and an escape from the misery of the past several seasons.

[SFHoya99]

Nov 6, 2024 16:57:10 GMT -5 calhoya said:

We are all victims of PTSD at this point given the horrendous product we have seen on the floor these past few seasons. However, the mindset among some that it's going to take several years to be good again needs to change. If it does take that time it would be very disappointing.

The realities of college basketball now are that most teams are starting over or at least incorporating a significant amount of new talent each year. Perhaps not 14 new players. When I find myself setting the bar so low that I am ready to accept mediocre as a sign of improvement I think I am just copping out to prepare for the worst. St. Johns turned their program around in one year and is now considered tournament worthy.

We have a proven coach, unlike his predecessor. We have players entering the season with some pedigree from their prior basketball careers. I agree that winning at this point based upon talent and not necessarily quality of play is both understandable and acceptable but only to the point that it becomes a first step in a process that will come together quickly over the next few months.

I go into the season seeing an upgrade in talent--at least on paper. I see a successful coach who oversold the program last year and has much to prove and hopefully a chip on his shoulder. I see an OOC schedule conducive to a strong winning record entering conference play. I am cautiously optimistic about the direction of a team that still appears to have a shortage of perimeter shooting and a lot of unproven players. If the talent is what we have been told then winning comfortably tonight is a reasonable expectation from this team and coach. Looking forward to a new beginning and an escape from the misery of the past several seasons.

We're going to be better than most independent pundits are predicting. I don't know where that is in the Big East because I really don't pay attention to other teams anymore. I just have trouble predicting a very strong season because we are so young. I've compared this team to JTIII's first, and that team had a core of pretty good juniors, but still faded when the freshmen tired late season. It's tough to rely on this much youth, especially when we still have some COVID seniors hanging around, I think, on other teams.

I understand why the comparison to St. John's in terms of a reboot, but the far closer comparison, unfortunately, is DePaul. St. John's under Mike Anderson wasn't good, but they were closer to .500 than anything over the last few years. Whereas we were atrocious, and haven't hit .500 in conference this decade. We'll see how our strategy compares to DePaul's and SJU, for that matter. But do we think we even could have had a shot at Kadary Richardson, for example? I don't know.

I am tentatively optimistic. More than anything, I really just want to see a team get better. I still remember the defensive switch that flipped in January of 2007 - it was fantastic to watch that team become a juggernaut.