24-25 Hoya Basketball

[SSHoya]

Some local DMV coverage by WJLA Channel 7, the ABC affiliate.

wjla.com/sports/college-basketball/ed-cooley-enters-2nd-year-with-a-revamped-roster-and-renewed-hope-for-georgetown-hoyas-basketball-malik-mack-men-roster-coach-ncaa

[EtomicB]

My bad for dropping the Uconn commit tweet here instead of the BE thread. I deleted it.

[FrazierFanatic]

Oct 30, 2024 6:41:28 GMT -5 EtomicB said:

My bad for dropping the Uconn commit tweet here instead of the BE thread. I deleted it.

The multiple "24-25" threads do get confusing sometimes, I have clicked on one of them more than once without paying attention, when I intended to click on a different one.

[hoyariv71]

Thomas Sorber mentioned on ESPN TOP NEWCOMERS, I am ALL IN ON THIS KID. I will go nutty, his performance this year will be the difference between March madness or not

[dariantownesvanzandt]

Here's the snippet on TS:

The buzz surrounding Sorber has grown in recent weeks, with reports from the Hoyas' scrimmages projecting the 6-10 big man to have an extended role earlier than expected. He was a top-60 prospect in the ESPN 100 for 2024.

[seaweed]

ONE WEEK! ONE MF'ing WEEK! Let's GO!

1 2 3 Fireballs

[EtomicB]

I agree that this season shouldn't be judged on wins & losses.

[SSHoya]

Oct 30, 2024 15:04:33 GMT -5 EtomicB said:

I agree that this season shouldn't be judged on wins & losses.

.

Is Coach Cooley channeling Chance the Gardener in "Being There"?

"There are spring and summer, but there are also fall and winter. And then spring and summer again. As long as the roots are not severed, all is well and all be well. . . There will be growth in the spring!" -- Chance

[jwp91]

Oct 30, 2024 15:04:33 GMT -5 EtomicB said:

I agree that this season shouldn't be judged on wins & losses.

I hate this quote the week before the season. Basically, he is signaling to take the under on wins. 13 or below wins and you have to wonder if he will escape the death spiral.

[DFW HOYA]

Oct 30, 2024 15:04:33 GMT -5 EtomicB said:

I agree that this season shouldn't be judged on wins & losses.

Hard stop.

If this team (and by extension, the program) is not judged on wins and losses, what then, exactly? Player surveys? Reps in the weight room? Instagram followers? This isn't the Georgetown field hockey team, which is so underfunded it must play its home games 44 miles from campus because the school can't find a suitable place for hosting seven home games a year. Nor is it Coppin State basketball, whose annual budget of $713,728 is about two weeks of what men's basketball at Georgetown spends, and which must play 11 of its first 12 games on the road to pay the bills. Georgetown University had the largest men's basketball budget in Division I in 2022-23, the most recent season disclosed. More than Kentucky, more than Duke.

Yes, it matters.

I don't recall Dan Hurley saying that wins and losses don't matter, nor Rick Pitino or even Chris Holtmann. A year ago, wasn't it Ed Cooley who said "We're going to win here. We're going to win a lot"? That's why Ed Cooley is in the corner office and not Patrick Ewing. Ignoring wins and losses yet again sends a message to players, recruits, donors, and fans at-large that 2024-25 is potentially another write off for a brand that has fallen further than any in major college basketball over the last decade.

[Elvado]

Oct 30, 2024 15:04:33 GMT -5 EtomicB said:

I agree that this season shouldn't be judged on wins & losses.

The Georgetown should not be judged on whether Ed’s paycheck bounces….

[kettlehill]

We know that Ed can talk with the best of them. And I think that Cooley knows he burnt himself with his talk last season. He was obviously fired up with his very optimistic view of the program's future. I think he knows he - implicitly- over promised. Which is why he is now taking the "talk is cheap" approach. Thus the quiet -from the staff-about this seasons prospects. I find this encouraging - and this is speculation on my part, but I think he knows he has something, but he is going to let the teams actions speak.
This team is going to be the surprise of the BE

[nbhoya]

We’re too far into this to not expect wins this year. We can’t be subpar forever.

[SFHoya99]

Wins and losses should be a key measure every year. It also shouldn't be the only measure, and not even the only measure of performance.

We need to be on the right track, at a reasonable pace to have an expectation that it is likely the program can achieve where we want it to go. What that means for each of us is different, but I don't think setting specific wins and losses requirements as a sole measure is actually the best way to evaluate where we are on that path.

Just like I don't think ignoring it makes sense as well.

But if we don't hit a specific win target because the Big East is better than expected, and because we lost a number of close games with a young team, but the overall performance is much better and we have strong roster retention ... the latter two will be far more predictive than a reductive argument of "we only won X games."

JT3's first team missed the tournament when the young team ran out of steam down the stretch. That team had 2 future NBA players and a strong junior class to lead them. And yes, it was his first year, but there was a lot more in the cupboard when he arrived. It was clear to see that the team would be very good the next year despite the collapse, and it was.

So this is more like JTIII's first year for me. The freshman and sophomores are better than JTIII's initial class, I think, at least in volume if not in NBA upside, but with one senior and one junior, it's even younger. Players are going to hit walls; close games are going to be a challenge.

We need to show substantial progress. To have a year like last year instead of a year like 2004-05 puts us in a very bad place. Recruiting is momentum and we've got to show the upward climb visibly to recruits and to the guys we need to re-recruit every year in the current climate.

There's no point in putting an exact win number to it. But there is a number that is too low, as perception is a big part of reality.

[DanMcQ]

[hoyariv71]

What? Is that about basketball

Sorry - mispost, we moved it.

[EtomicB]

Oct 30, 2024 18:04:12 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

Oct 30, 2024 15:04:33 GMT -5 EtomicB said:

I agree that this season shouldn't be judged on wins & losses.

Hard stop.

If this team (and by extension, the program) is not judged on wins and losses, what then, exactly? Player surveys? Reps in the weight room? Instagram followers? This isn't the Georgetown field hockey team, which is so underfunded it must play its home games 44 miles from campus because the school can't find a suitable place for hosting seven home games a year. Nor is it Coppin State basketball, whose annual budget of $713,728 is about two weeks of what men's basketball at Georgetown spends, and which must play 11 of its first 12 games on the road to pay the bills. Georgetown University had the largest men's basketball budget in Division I in 2022-23, the most recent season disclosed. More than Kentucky, more than Duke.

Yes, it matters.

I don't recall Dan Hurley saying that wins and losses don't matter, nor Rick Pitino or even Chris Holtmann. A year ago, wasn't it Ed Cooley who said "We're going to win here. We're going to win a lot"? That's why Ed Cooley is in the corner office and not Patrick Ewing. Ignoring wins and losses yet again sends a message to players, recruits, donors, and fans at-large that 2024-25 is potentially another write off for a brand that has fallen further than any in major college basketball over the last decade.

To me, it's unrealistic to expect this team(the youngest in the BE) to win at a solid level(.500 BE) this season but it isn't unrealistic to expect them to be competitive and improve as the year progresses.

Folks have to understand that Cooley's track record has been improvement over time with players who've been with his staff multiple years, he's not a quick fix coach.

We all know there's a big difference between being non competitive in games and losing a lot of tight games.

Cooley did say "We're going to win" but he didn't say when. That's why he keeps stressing that fans have to "enjoy the ride" to being an "elite" organization.

[SaxaCD]

Yeah, Cooley is way more of a "system" guy than a "assemble all-stars and go" kind of guy. It's tough in today's college basketball world, though. I'm hoping it works out for him and the Hoyas, and this bunch seems to be much more competitive than we have seen lately. Time will tell, but W/L does matter, along with other signs of progress and the rebuilding of a system.

[calhoya]

Totally agree that wins and losses are a key measure of the growth and success of the program. Also agree that when a program has sunk to the depths that the Hoyas have, there are going to have to be other metrics considered to determine if a rebound is underway. Being competitive against quality teams and not playing down to the level of lesser programs are two. Being better in February than in November is another.

The challenge for Cooley is whether his approach to building a program is compatible with today's world of paid collegiate athletes and free agency. I still believe it is possible to build and develop but it is going to require a coach who can first and foremost retain his young talent from year to year, while developing these kids. Marquette seems to be on that path. It is also going to require a coach who can relatively quickly incorporate selected free agents into his system at the outset of a season, without suffering embarrassing losses that can deflate an entire program including its fanbase.

The Hoyas, like Depaul, are going to remain at risk of the "here we go again" syndrome from their fans unless and until they get those early wins. It's been too long since a Hoya team entered January without any embarrassing blemishes. Given this year's schedule, one or two of those bad losses in November or December could prove to be too much for a rapidly dwindling fanbase. It's why I am approaching the season with a mixture of excitement over the new talent and concen as to how quickly they can put it together.

[jackofjoy]

Oct 31, 2024 6:26:20 GMT -5 calhoya said:

Totally agree that wins and losses are a key measure of the growth and success of the program. Also agree that when a program has sunk to the depths that the Hoyas have, there are going to have to be other metrics considered to determine if a rebound is underway. Being competitive against quality teams and not playing down to the level of lesser programs are two. Being better in February than in November is another.

The challenge for Cooley is whether his approach to building a program is compatible with today's world of paid collegiate athletes and free agency. I still believe it is possible to build and develop but it is going to require a coach who can first and foremost retain his young talent from year to year, while developing these kids. Marquette seems to be on that path. It is also going to require a coach who can relatively quickly incorporate selected free agents into his system at the outset of a season, without suffering embarrassing losses that can deflate an entire program including its fanbase.

The Hoyas, like Depaul, are going to remain at risk of the "here we go again" syndrome from their fans unless and until they get those early wins. It's been too long since a Hoya team entered January without any embarrassing blemishes. Given this year's schedule, one or two of those bad losses in November or December could prove to be too much for a rapidly dwindling fanbase. It's why I am approaching the season with a mixture of excitement over the new talent and concen as to how quickly they can put it together.

This gets talked about a lot and I couldn’t agree more. Especially the “playing down”. I’m not sure if it’s just optics, if it really matters, but aside from the occasional early season white-knuckler - or very rare loss - the blue bloods seems to consistently blow out early season competition. Like it’s not even a question. “Work on your stuff”? Sure. But if you have the talent - skill, athletic and otherwise - these should be not even in question.