guru
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Post by guru on Aug 27, 2024 22:34:45 GMT -5
it’s Unfortunate that the three main public sources for Hoya discussion all have administrators who Show hyperbolic distain for the current program.. but This is what happens when a program shows literal disdain for its fan base The level of disdain this home non-conference schedule shows to season ticket holders like myself defies hyperbole.
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hoyaguy
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Post by hoyaguy on Aug 27, 2024 23:00:00 GMT -5
…heck throw in an Ivy as well to give one them a fun beat down that students would get a kick out of. The last time we beat an Ivy League school was in 2015. Don’t knock them. Anything can happen true. Though when was the last year we were a solid team and competently coached? Harvard in the NIT at Mcd especially was weird and I’m not certainly suggesting you pick the likely top team in that league to play. Dartmouth against Ewing was well in that season I try not to think about.
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thedragon
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Post by thedragon on Aug 28, 2024 0:52:09 GMT -5
This is what happens when a program shows literal disdain for its fan base The level of disdain this home non-conference schedule shows to season ticket holders like myself defies hyperbole. But hyperbole did not defy you it seems
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jackofjoy
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Post by jackofjoy on Aug 28, 2024 6:24:32 GMT -5
All this talk about the ooc is overblown. This is a young team with new faces; add no Kenner League play and this schedule makes sense. They need time to grow and gel. This schedule should provide opportunities for the players to play together in game situations and grow. I'm ready for the season to start. Meh. “Young”, maybe. But in the transfer portal era there’s always gonna be new faces. Can’t be the excuse every year.
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jackofjoy
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Post by jackofjoy on Aug 28, 2024 6:27:11 GMT -5
In his introductory press conference last year didn’t Cooley say something to the effect of “anyone can ask me any question”? someone should ask about OCC. I get “rebuilding” and all, but honestly, is there any loss at this point that would bring the program to a lower point? Just don’t understand how this prepares a team for the BE. This team has 4 true freshman and 2 players who could be seniors in high school. We have 2 returning scholarship players. Are you crazy? What did you expect? I’m saying - ask if there is at least a “plan” to build into a solid OOC including a reasonable pre season tourney. Like, in year 4, when we’ll no doubt still be complaining about players transferring out and “new faces”. yeah, I know, UMD on the horizon, blah blah blah
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Aug 28, 2024 8:06:18 GMT -5
This team has 4 true freshman and 2 players who could be seniors in high school. We have 2 returning scholarship players. Are you crazy? What did you expect? I’m saying - ask if there is at least a “plan” to build into a solid OOC including a reasonable pre season tourney. Like, in year 4, when we’ll no doubt still be complaining about players transferring out and “new faces”. yeah, I know, UMD on the horizon, blah blah blah I agree with this sentiment to a certain extent. We are in an era of constant turnover. Clearly they think they can stop it but that hasn't been the case. Now if turnover is a given, then maybe the youth argument goes away a bit if we can get a bit older (at least 2nd/3rd year guys vs. all 1st & 2nd). UMD is also just one game. Turn Albany, Wagner, Fairfield into GW, American, Howard, Mason and that is marginally more appealing. Get a UVA or VCU, Richmond on the schedule and now we are cooking. My incentive as a ticket holder to sit in a 15% of capacity on a Tuesday night vs. watching from my home isn't there. Even if we are winning like 2007, it's barely there to see us play Albany. Life is too busy, kids have too many activities, and there are a ton of entertainment options you are competing with. Ed needs to realize there is more to do here for the average Hoya fan then in Providence.
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Post by TrueHoyaBlue on Aug 28, 2024 8:32:40 GMT -5
I'd love more local opponents, but I don't really see GW or Mason agreeing to buy games any time soon. They'd want a home and home or, at worst, a 2-for-1. And I'd like to see this team gel a bit before going into the Smith Center against a crowd that would certainly be more hyped for the game than GU fans would be at Cap One.
If this team develops the way we'd like it to this year, and keeps a solid core together going into next season, then with the higher talent and team level, I'm all for taking that on.
In general, do I like this OOC? No. But for this year--and hopefully, only for this year--I'm okay with it for a mostly-new team coming off a 2-win conference season. I would be Editeded if either the team potential or the strength of schedule looks like this next year or in any following season, though.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Aug 28, 2024 9:03:02 GMT -5
I'd love more local opponents, but I don't really see GW or Mason agreeing to buy games any time soon. They'd want a home and home or, at worst, a 2-for-1. And I'd like to see this team gel a bit before going into the Smith Center against a crowd that would certainly be more hyped for the game than GU fans would be at Cap One. If this team develops the way we'd like it to this year, and keeps a solid core together going into next season, then with the higher talent and team level, I'm all for taking that on. In general, do I like this OOC? No. But for this year--and hopefully, only for this year--I'm okay with it for a mostly-new team coming off a 2-win conference season. I would be Editeded if either the team potential or the strength of schedule looks like this next year or in any following season, though. Do you really think kids from the Big 12, ACC, Big 10 & SEC will be shaken playing in front of a hostile crowd at the Smith Center? Should Gtown play a schedule similar to Marquette's? No, but they should have an out of conference schedule much better than this one.
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Post by TrueHoyaBlue on Aug 28, 2024 9:27:41 GMT -5
I'd love more local opponents, but I don't really see GW or Mason agreeing to buy games any time soon. They'd want a home and home or, at worst, a 2-for-1. And I'd like to see this team gel a bit before going into the Smith Center against a crowd that would certainly be more hyped for the game than GU fans would be at Cap One. If this team develops the way we'd like it to this year, and keeps a solid core together going into next season, then with the higher talent and team level, I'm all for taking that on. In general, do I like this OOC? No. But for this year--and hopefully, only for this year--I'm okay with it for a mostly-new team coming off a 2-win conference season. I would be Editeded if either the team potential or the strength of schedule looks like this next year or in any following season, though. Do you really think kids from the Big 12, ACC, Big 10 & SEC will be shaken playing in front of a hostile crowd at the Smith Center? Should Gtown play a schedule similar to Marquette's? No, but they should have an out of conference schedule much better than this one. Nope, and I think in a year, I'd expect a Georgetown team--coming off a bubble season and returning 5+ key contributors--to be ready for that, too. I'm pretty sure you and I agree on what we'd prefer to see. I'm just willing to make one last exception for this season. If our 25-26 schedule doesn't have at least four games against top-100 opponents (or if most of the remaining schedule are sub-250), that's when I'll reconsider renewing my season tickets. For this year, I'd like to see a team that takes care of business against the bottom-level opponents that it plays and doesn't face home losses or OT games against cupcakes. If the team is looking considerably better going into January than it looks in November, I'll be happy enough.
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iowa80
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Post by iowa80 on Aug 28, 2024 10:15:50 GMT -5
This is what happens when a program shows literal disdain for its fan base The level of disdain this home non-conference schedule shows to season ticket holders like myself defies hyperbole. I have no doubt that it defies hyperbole for season ticket holders "like yourself," but hopefully speaking for somewhat more reasonable season ticket holders like myself, we understand understand that Cooley should be given more than a season to build, and should not be held to a higher standard than the man who originally built the program.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Aug 28, 2024 10:29:59 GMT -5
The last time we beat an Ivy League school was in 2015. Don’t knock them. Anything can happen true. Though when was the last year we were a solid team and competently coached? Harvard in the NIT at Mcd especially was weird and I’m not certainly suggesting you pick the likely top team in that league to play. Dartmouth against Ewing was well in that season I try not to think about. 2003 has beaten the “how to schedule if you want to make the NCAAT” horse to death and taken a chainsaw… 🫣 Clearly, Cooley is not aiming at the 2024-25 NCAAT. So, in the meantime, start by settling some old scores with teams that will take a paid away game, that profile as end-of-season KenPom 150-250-ranked, that are regional opponents and that have a historical winning record vs GU. Here is DFW’s Georgetown History Project’s list of GU’s record vs all opponents www.hoyabasketball.com/records/opponents.htm
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jpj
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Post by jpj on Aug 28, 2024 10:32:06 GMT -5
I whole heartily agree. I currently buy the 10 pack of tix and will see Notre Dame and the best of the Big East. But consistently add in GWU, GMU, Howard, and American as Home/Away series and I am there. Then a rotation with Maryland, Virginia, Penn State, VCU and I am back and happy
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Post by BeantownHoya on Aug 28, 2024 10:36:08 GMT -5
I whole heartily agree. I currently buy the 10 pack of tix and will see Notre Dame and the best of the Big East. But consistently add in GWU, GMU, Howard, and American as Home/Away series and in am there. Then a rotation with Maryland, Virginia, Penn State, VCU and I am back and happy This is the way...(That's not supposed to be an awful Mandalorian joke) This is a simple answer that gets people back in the arena/seats, local attention and I would have to imagine the GM's, GW's, etc of the world would love this as well.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Aug 28, 2024 10:37:47 GMT -5
Anything can happen true. Though when was the last year we were a solid team and competently coached? Harvard in the NIT at Mcd especially was weird and I’m not certainly suggesting you pick the likely top team in that league to play. Dartmouth against Ewing was well in that season I try not to think about. 2003 has beaten the “how to schedule if you want to make the NCAAT” horse to death and taken a chainsaw… 🫣 Clearly, Cooley is not aiming at the 2024-25 NCAAT. So, in the meantime, settle some old scores with teams that will take a paid away game, that profile as end-of-season KenPom 150-250-ranked, that are regional opponents and that have a historical winning record vs GU. Here is DFW’s Georgetown History Project’s list of GU’s record vs all opponents www.hoyabasketball.com/records/opponents.htmAgreed, and that's why I didn't beat the dead horse more in my post above! The arguments have already been made. And I get it. We are coming off a 2-18 season, the odds we would be in contention for the tournament are extremely low anyway, so it probably won't matter. My guess is that Cooley was trying to put together a schedule where he could feel out what the team has going for it, and then make a Big East splash. If we go 3-0 in the games that are actual challenges (Notre Dame, Syracuse, West Virginia), our OOC might look better than it does today given that it would include 2 road wins. Frankly, at this point, while I do care about the schedule, I care a lot more about seeing our team improve substantially over last year's team. Without a good team on the court, all the scheduling talk doesn't matter very much. The one thing I really do want to see return is going to the good November tournaments, like Maui. Once we get better, those would be really fun for everybody, plus provide real challenges and good opportunities for wins.
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bluegray79
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Post by bluegray79 on Aug 28, 2024 12:58:07 GMT -5
Some good insights and some really maddening posts all of which reveal where individual expectations lie.
If you believe that we have sucked for a decade or so, then expecting NCAA bubble is a far reach - no matter how good a coach Cooley is - and our OOC schedule is less relevant because we're building for the sustainable future.
If you think that it doesn't matter that we have sucked for a decade or so and that we should be relevant in Year 2 of Ed Cooley, then the OOC schedule is one indicator -- maybe the main indicator -- of how the coaching staff sees the season ahead and maybe reveals its priorities for Year 2. And you are very likely griping that EC and staff are not as good as you'd hoped, and that we are doomed once again to lower half of the BE once again. Also maybe that we won't fare so well in BE play as the level of competition in OOC is so much weaker than what we will face in conference play.
If you are more of a long gamer, then you might feel we are pretty much right where you thought we would be, maybe even a little ahead. I count myself in this group. I think that the roster we have is a significant accomplishment - in the age of the transfer portal and NIL - given that we have sucked for a decade or so and the Gtown brand is almost totally unknown to the present generation of prospects. I saw UConn's OOC last year and just laughed when I compared it to ours. They can do that in year 4 or 5 of Dan Hurley because he has had those years to build his program. Not sure why Ed & Co. should be expected to do it faster. This 24-25 team is going to compete this year -- we will win some games we aren't favored to win, and we will lose a few games we are favored to win. Just 3 players back from last year (Austin Montgomery makes it 4), but some impressive size, length, athleticism, and depth compared to just a year ago. Yes, we have a few upperclassmen, but we are a young team and we will have growing pains. Year 2 will be fun, will get us closer to our goal of being a bubble team or better -- but it's years 3 & 4 that I will look for serious high expectations. Ed said it a lot before last season -- that it will take some time to get there but it will be glorious.
There could be more sub-groups in this mix, and I could have left out any number of important factors. Just riffing a bit. Still excited to see this group play.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Aug 28, 2024 18:54:52 GMT -5
If you are more of a long gamer, then you might feel we are pretty much right where you thought we would be, maybe even a little ahead. Success of a program basically comes down to: - Talent evaluation
- Recruiting
- Player development
- Gameplan, scheme and in game coaching
- Player retention
Taking them one by one: 1. Cooley has a rep of finding diamonds in the rough, but with Georgetown, he's at best an incomplete. One could easily argue last year's transfer class was poorly evaluated. This year's freshmen are very highly rated and the transfer class fairly strong, but we can't give a grade on evaluation until we see them play. 2. It's hard to dock Cooley at all here so far. Georgetown is in a bad place in terms of prestige and hype, and while our NIL is probably pretty decent, the freshman class is fantastic and the transfer class good. The one weakness for me is really the lack of an experienced big, but I give Cooley credit for going and getting Halaifonua and Diouf to round out depth with upside. 3. Cooley's got a very strong rep, and I think we saw some fairly decent improvement from certain players last year like Cook and Epps. But this by definition, is probably something we need to measure over four years or something. 4. Cooley's never been a big scheme guy. He was pretty great at out of bounds plays last year, but the inability to find anything on defense was a big knock. His Providence teams were generally not great defenders, either, though they tended to the short side. Then again, his only Providence year outside the Top 100 was his first year, and he took his Fairfield teams from awful to 19th in the country his last year. 5. Lots of people call this a fail, but I call it an incomplete. I understand all the negativity -- I do. But I think people are trying way too hard to project season 1 issues into long term problems despite (a) our first season very unique and (b) Cooley not really having issues with those things in his 10+ years of coaching. Was our first transfer class poor? Yes, Cooley came in with little time and no NIL apparatus, though. I don't know how much of the Hunter Dickinson or bust narrative is real, but even if it was a choice, it was clearly influenced by the options. Which were bad. Our second transfer class was not a home run, but it was much improved. The defense was atrocious last year. And like I said, Cooley's track record is mixed on defense. But he was never quite this bad, even his first year at Fairfield. You can be negative and think that he lost it, but doesn't pretty much everything point to a personnel problem? And yeah, we only retained 3 guys (and only 2 who played). But again, we were awful. I really don't see the point in acting like the retention strategy and ability will be the same for a talented team than a team clearly lacking talent. That assumption that the roster doesn't influence choices seems to be made entirely in order to be negative. Cooley's a got a lot of work and a lot to prove. But he's got a pretty good track record and a TON more talent. He's proven at least one thing: he can recruit despite the ty recent track record. He seems to be mending fences with local AAU and HS coaches. And when he struck out on bigs ... he did exactly what people were complaining he wasn't doing -- he went international. I just don't really get the mental machinations to be more negative.
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Aug 28, 2024 19:07:46 GMT -5
I just hope we don't lose to Albany and beat Coppin St. in overtime.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Aug 28, 2024 20:00:48 GMT -5
If you think that it doesn't matter that we have sucked for a decade or so and that we should be relevant in Year 2 of Ed Cooley, then the OOC schedule is one indicator -- maybe the main indicator -- of how the coaching staff sees the season ahead and maybe reveals its priorities for Year 2. To me the decision to push Maryland to next year says more about where the coaches are at than the schedule. Ed Cooley doesn't have a history of strong OOC scheduling. Here are the OOC strength of schedule rankings according to KenPom going back to Providence 2024: 349 2023: 352 2022: 152 2021: 103 2020: 217 2019: 237 2018: 193 2017: 287 2016: 259 2015: 93 2014: 139 2013: 306 2012: 342 Bottom line: Ed Cooley has never scheduled a tough OOC, so it's hard to read much into that. At best, in years where Cooley feels good about our team, we could probably hope for a low top 100 type schedule (which in my mind would be fine). But most years in his time coaching in the Big East, Cooley has had a below-average OOC, including some that were really bad. To be fair, some of those teams that played bad OOCs at Providence made the tournament anyway. But you wonder if those teams had played stronger schedules if their seeds would have been higher and they may have had more tournament success.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Aug 28, 2024 20:13:57 GMT -5
If you think that it doesn't matter that we have sucked for a decade or so and that we should be relevant in Year 2 of Ed Cooley, then the OOC schedule is one indicator -- maybe the main indicator -- of how the coaching staff sees the season ahead and maybe reveals its priorities for Year 2. To me the decision to push Maryland to next year says more about where the coaches are at than the schedule. Ed Cooley doesn't have a history of strong OOC scheduling. Here are the OOC strength of schedule rankings according to KenPom going back to Providence 2024: 349 2023: 352 2022: 152 2021: 103 2020: 217 2019: 237 2018: 193 2017: 287 2016: 259 2015: 93 2014: 139 2013: 306 2012: 342 Bottom line: Ed Cooley has never scheduled a tough OOC, so it's hard to read much into that. At best, in years where Cooley feels good about our team, we could probably hope for a low top 100 type schedule (which in my mind would be fine). But most years in his time coaching in the Big East, Cooley has had a below-average OOC, including some that were really bad. To be fair, some of those teams that played bad OOCs at Providence made the tournament anyway. But you wonder if those teams had played stronger schedules if their seeds would have been higher and they may have had more tournament success. I'm not saying he's ever scheduled hard, but for context, the top NC SOS tend to be the creampuffs. Last year the Top 7 were all from the SWAC. There are major conference teams up there -- Purdue, SDSU, Alabama and Tennessee all had hard ones, but UConn's was 283rd in the nation and that didn't seem to hurt them. Despite that, they had the 12th hardest SOS overall. I'm not disagreeing on the larger point so much as pointing out that, contextually, it is pretty tough to tell what an average major conference non-con SOS is or whether it has a ton of effect. Last year, the 93rd hardest was Baylor -- and they played Florida, Duke, Michigan State, I think.
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daveg023
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Post by daveg023 on Aug 29, 2024 5:48:16 GMT -5
Nothing is wrong with this schedule if the MTE is replaced with a real one where we'd get 2-3 Top 100 teams. Honestly, there is little difference in our schedule and most of our BE peers if you take out the St. Francis and MSM games and replace them with an average P5 team or two one would expect to play in a MTE, say a Oregon, Ole Miss, Oklahoma, etc.
I know a lot of those marquee MTEs are set 1-2 years in advance, so let's hope Ed is already angling for us to be in a real event for next year.
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