wolveribe
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 376
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Post by wolveribe on Apr 24, 2024 14:09:47 GMT -5
Unfortunately a needed move if you want to compete next year. With a transfer center, Sorber, and Fielder all in the mix at the 5, it really doesn't make sense for Cook to stay.
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hoyaboya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by hoyaboya on Apr 24, 2024 14:11:50 GMT -5
Can't say that I love this. Cook had his warts, but he worked his @ss off every game, with basically no one to back him up. I gotta assume that the staff has told him that his role would be greatly diminished next season--and I guess that this is the right move for everyone. But I had really hoped that the days of yearly complete roster overhauls were done--yes some players would go in and out, but Cooley would bring stability. Maybe that will still happen starting with this freshmen class, but then again maybe roster stability is impossible in the NIL and free transfers era. Sigh. Some good news about bigs transferring in would soften the blow. Most likely we cut Cook to bring in the Tennessee kid, while still having our eyes out for Cliff O. or somebody of a similar impact.
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Post by 401to202hoya on Apr 24, 2024 14:16:12 GMT -5
I appreciated Cook’s effort last year but inevitably his role was going to be diminished next year. Hopefully we are upgrading at the C position.
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wolveribe
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 376
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Post by wolveribe on Apr 24, 2024 14:18:36 GMT -5
I don't think the center from Tennessee comes here if Cliff comes here. Its one or the other.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 24, 2024 14:21:13 GMT -5
This is not surprising at all, and expected. Like others, I loved that Supreme Cook fought endlessly and always gave an A+ on effort. And he really surprised me and expanded his offensive game as time went by. The problem is that he was abysmal on defense, and was the main reason why our at-rim defense was last in the country in all of Division 1. And this just isn't about stats alone, the eye test showed it too. When Cook played, help defense was non-existent. This type of defense just isn't a feasible way forward.
For us to be a better team, Cook needed to be replaced. And so this is one of those situations where you are sad to see him go, but it's also a reality of winning that if we want to improve our team significantly, he was either going to have to be comfortable playing minimal minutes, or transfer. I do not blame him at all for choosing the latter. And given the dearth of bigs, he might even be able to get some decent NIL money out of it too.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 24, 2024 14:25:46 GMT -5
Can't say that I love this. Cook had his warts, but he worked his @ss off every game, with basically no one to back him up. I gotta assume that the staff has told him that his role would be greatly diminished next season--and I guess that this is the right move for everyone. But I had really hoped that the days of yearly complete roster overhauls were done--yes some players would go in and out, but Cooley would bring stability. Maybe that will still happen starting with this freshmen class, but then again maybe roster stability is impossible in the NIL and free transfers era. Sigh. Some good news about bigs transferring in would soften the blow. I really think this is mixed. I think some level of roster upheaval is going to happen going forward no matter what. It stinks, but until the current NIL/transfer rules change, this will happen every year. Even some programs who have had a lot more success than ours have been killed by waves of transfers this season, like Duke. That said, I do think that once Cooley gets guys in that he recruited from high school and transfers who stick around a bit longer, that retention will be better. And if we win, retention will be better. Winning solves a lot of ills, but not all, as illustrated by all of the successful teams losing tons of players. At best, I think we will get to a point of equilibrium where most rosters lose 3-4 players a year, with variation in both directions depending on the makeup of teams, incoming freshman, and NIL deals. Bad teams, like ours this past year, will almost always see turnover like this, though. The COVID guys having their 5th year to play, like Cook, will be mostly done after this upcoming season too, which may help a bit as the overall talent pool shrinks a bit. The days of mostly-stable rosters are over. Think about this. As recently as 2017-2018, when Ewing came in, the only transfer was Agau. In today's environment, that would be unthinkable. The main thing holding guys in place was a desire NOT to sit out for a year to play. With that gone, and the enticement of money to transfer, things will remain unstable. At some point, something will need to be done about this because it's not good for anybody involved long term, including the players.
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SDHoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,339
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Post by SDHoya on Apr 24, 2024 14:41:45 GMT -5
Can't say that I love this. Cook had his warts, but he worked his @ss off every game, with basically no one to back him up. I gotta assume that the staff has told him that his role would be greatly diminished next season--and I guess that this is the right move for everyone. But I had really hoped that the days of yearly complete roster overhauls were done--yes some players would go in and out, but Cooley would bring stability. Maybe that will still happen starting with this freshmen class, but then again maybe roster stability is impossible in the NIL and free transfers era. Sigh. Some good news about bigs transferring in would soften the blow. I really think this is mixed. I think some level of roster upheaval is going to happen going forward no matter what. It stinks, but until the current NIL/transfer rules change, this will happen every year. Even some programs who have had a lot more success than ours have been killed by waves of transfers this season, like Duke. That said, I do think that once Cooley gets guys in that he recruited from high school and transfers who stick around a bit longer, that retention will be better. And if we win, retention will be better. Winning solves a lot of ills, but not all, as illustrated by all of the successful teams losing tons of players. At best, I think we will get to a point of equilibrium where most rosters lose 3-4 players a year, with variation in both directions depending on the makeup of teams, incoming freshman, and NIL deals. Bad teams, like ours this past year, will almost always see turnover like this, though. The COVID guys having their 5th year to play, like Cook, will be mostly done after this upcoming season too, which may help a bit as the overall talent pool shrinks a bit. The days of mostly-stable rosters are over. Think about this. As recently as 2017-2018, when Ewing came in, the only transfer was Agau. In today's environment, that would be unthinkable. The main thing holding guys in place was a desire NOT to sit out for a year to play. With that gone, and the enticement of money to transfer, things will remain unstable. At some point, something will need to be done about this because it's not good for anybody involved long term, including the players. Yeah, obviously these transfers (Cook, Styles, Brumbaugh) exist in a very different context than the roster implosions of the Ewing era. I don't expect ANYONE in the current environment to completely avoid the transfer portal madness. But I had hoped (and still do) that Hoyas can get to a point where at least a handful of contributors stick around and that the transfer portal is used more as supplement than for total replacement. And I get it--we can't have zero interior defense again, and if Cooley isn't confident Cook can provide it, he's got to go shopping. But separate from the value of of the players having familiarity with each other and the system, as a fan I just really prefer having the likeable guys stick around so I can root for them for more than a minute.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 24, 2024 14:50:54 GMT -5
This is glass half full news everyone----defensive big incoming. You know something or just being logical?
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DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by DFW HOYA on Apr 24, 2024 14:51:33 GMT -5
Yeah, obviously these transfers (Cook, Styles, Brumbaugh) exist in a very different context than the roster implosions of the Ewing era. I don't expect ANYONE in the current environment to completely avoid the transfer portal madness. Marquette has no one in the portal. Until things improve on the court, Georgetown is neither a destination nor an end point for many of these kids. The value of the Georgetown degree, the driver of decades of recruiting, unfortunately means little to perpetual transfers, and the Thompson Center no longer provides any sizeable draw either.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Apr 24, 2024 14:52:31 GMT -5
Wonder what was in play with the timing here. Did he want to stay if we didn't land another big? Or did he see the demand for bigs elsewhere and thought he could fetch more $ elsewhere? Can never know his effort, as someone who goes back to following him from his Fairfield days. I wish him well and hope he lands in a spot where his talents can be best used. I hope for the Hoyas' sake that a replacement is en route and/or the staff wasn't taken off guard by this. He graduated from Fairfield right Dave? Well wishes to the young man, maybe Seton Hall would be a decent landing spot for a bruiser like Cook.
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 24, 2024 14:54:19 GMT -5
Can't say that I love this. Cook had his warts, but he worked his @ss off every game, with basically no one to back him up. I gotta assume that the staff has told him that his role would be greatly diminished next season--and I guess that this is the right move for everyone. But I had really hoped that the days of yearly complete roster overhauls were done--yes some players would go in and out, but Cooley would bring stability. Maybe that will still happen starting with this freshmen class, but then again maybe roster stability is impossible in the NIL and free transfers era. Sigh. Some good news about bigs transferring in would soften the blow. Old timey roster stability is over, at least until we see some kind of change. People will rightfully jump for cash and playing time; there's nothing to be done unless you want to suck. I think we need to be on the upper end of roster stability to succeed going forward, but a 2-19 Big East season is not necessarily the worst season to be coming off for roster turnover. Cook worked hard, but he was a big reason for the worst defense I've ever seen (though far from the only one). Fielder and Sorber are likely upgrades already on the team, but another big coming in via transfer was also a necessary upgrade. So this was going to happen.
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,962
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Post by EtomicB on Apr 24, 2024 14:54:27 GMT -5
Yeah, obviously these transfers (Cook, Styles, Brumbaugh) exist in a very different context than the roster implosions of the Ewing era. I don't expect ANYONE in the current environment to completely avoid the transfer portal madness. Marquette has no one in the portal. Until things improve on the court, Georgetown is neither a destination nor an end point for many of these kids. The value of the Georgetown degree, the driver of decades of recruiting, unfortunately means little to perpetual transfers, and the Thompson Center no longer provides any sizeable draw either. More than a few will say it's due to Marquette winning, as opposed to their staff prioritizing the players in the program. Time will tell.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Apr 24, 2024 14:57:11 GMT -5
Marquette has no one in the portal. Until things improve on the court, Georgetown is neither a destination nor an end point for many of these kids. The value of the Georgetown degree, the driver of decades of recruiting, unfortunately means little to perpetual transfers, and the Thompson Center no longer provides any sizeable draw either. More than a few will say it's due to Marquette winning, as opposed to their staff prioritizing the players in the program. Time will tell. Also, exception that proves the rule. Did anyone expect Marquette to have no one in the portal?
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daveg023
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by daveg023 on Apr 24, 2024 15:20:05 GMT -5
Wonder what was in play with the timing here. Did he want to stay if we didn't land another big? Or did he see the demand for bigs elsewhere and thought he could fetch more $ elsewhere? Can never know his effort, as someone who goes back to following him from his Fairfield days. I wish him well and hope he lands in a spot where his talents can be best used. I hope for the Hoyas' sake that a replacement is en route and/or the staff wasn't taken off guard by this. He graduated from Fairfield right Dave? Well wishes to the young man, maybe Seton Hall would be a decent landing spot for a bruiser like Cook. No he left with one year of eligibility remaining I believe. I'm assuming he's graduating from GU this May? Then using a grad year elsewhere...
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 24, 2024 15:38:19 GMT -5
More than a few will say it's due to Marquette winning, as opposed to their staff prioritizing the players in the program. Time will tell. Also, exception that proves the rule. Did anyone expect Marquette to have no one in the portal? Exactly. Excluding us and Marquette, there are 9 other Big East teams, 8 of which were better than us, all of whom have had at least one transfer (I think that is right, but tell me if otherwise). It's silly to point to one or two teams with good retention when virtually every other team in high major basketball has had some amount of turnover (and much more than when the transfer rules were much more restrictive). Last year, you could say "Well, Duke has nobody in the portal." This year, they have what, 7 players in the portal. Did Scheyer go from a great coach at retaining players to a horrible one in a single season? Doubtful. What will be interesting long-term is what coaches on average retain more players. What happens to one team in one particular year is not very telling.
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madgesiq92
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by madgesiq92 on Apr 24, 2024 15:52:37 GMT -5
Knew that the glass half empty crowd would chime in---same crew that would be complaining about the state of the program if Rowan and Cook came back and we were the worst defensive team in the BE again.
Cooley's first freshman class hasn't even suited up yet, and there are people complaining about attrition under Cooley.
Fielder is the only 2023 recruit that Cooley brought in. He is still here.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Apr 24, 2024 16:01:21 GMT -5
More than a few will say it's due to Marquette winning, as opposed to their staff prioritizing the players in the program. Time will tell. Also, exception that proves the rule. Did anyone expect Marquette to have no one in the portal? Yes, they didn't have any last year either. Smart has said while he won't shut the door to using the portal his 1st priority is the kids he's built relationships with. It was unrealistic for Cooley to go this route last offseason, in some respects this offseason as well but at some point in the near future the staff is going to have to roll with the players they have in order to have sustained success. marquettewire.org/4107888/sports/shaka-smart-is-different-from-other-coaches-and-marquette-is-better-off-because-of-it/
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concord
Century (over 100 posts)
The foe long since in silence slept; Alike the conqueror silent sleeps.
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Post by concord on Apr 24, 2024 16:07:44 GMT -5
As a deeply delusional Hoya fan, it seems to me that the transfers out are coherent with the talent we are prioritizing and bringing in, and that the announcements appear to be in concert as well. As the coaching staff recruits and strikes deals with talented players, the players on the existing roster seem to be informed/aware of this and making moves accordingly, which would correlate with some degree of candid communication with the staff. And, to date, the incoming talent is superior (or at least, better fitted to our needs) vs the talent that is departing. But I’d like to see at least one quality big man commitment this week to affirm my rose-colored view of things.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Apr 24, 2024 16:09:32 GMT -5
Knew that the glass half empty crowd would chime in---same crew that would be complaining about the state of the program if Rowan and Cook came back and we were the worst defensive team in the BE again. Cooley's first freshman class hasn't even suited up yet, and there are people complaining about attrition under Cooley. Fielder is the only 2023 recruit that Cooley brought in. He is still here. Wrong. I thought we covered Rowan. Rowan’s take: “After the season it just made all too much sense, after Ewing left, to go play for Cooley. He recruited me out of high school at Providence, and them [Georgetown] being my hometown and needing a point guard, it just made perfect sense.” hilltophoops.substack.com/p/rowan-brumbaugh-georgetown-interview Besides, any player with more than one year of eligibility who was brought in by Cooley was part of his first-year class. Only Epps and Fielder are left of Cooley's first class at GU.
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hoyaguy
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by hoyaguy on Apr 24, 2024 18:39:51 GMT -5
Just based on this and all of the eyes emoji posts all around. Any guesses on who it might be? Cook's announcement was kind of delayed, can see Cooley asking him to wait until they got some momentum in the portal and were close. Was hoping he would stick around, but hard to see him actually wanting to play 5 minutes a game
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