dense
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Post by dense on Feb 15, 2024 15:27:38 GMT -5
I'd rather pencil in Cook for less than 20 minutes or move on actually. Why would Cook sign up for that? He’s arguably our best player, easily our most consistent. NIL is a two-way street. I highly doubt Cook will want to return if his role is reduced. Well if we go in penciling in Cook for 30 mins a game we will be right back in the mix for 9th and 10th place. It seems they are looking at a 5 because Trilly Donovan says they've contacted Wolf of Yale. He definitely would play more than Okpara would. |
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CTHoya08
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Bring back Izzo!
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Post by CTHoya08 on Feb 15, 2024 15:48:06 GMT -5
Good to know because I've been advocating to go after Okpara for a month. So we going Ewing style with 3 centers again? Ewing took three centers in one class. I don't see a huge problem with having Cook (5th-year senior), Sorber (true freshman), and a transfer splitting the difference. |
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guru
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Post by guru on Feb 15, 2024 15:49:14 GMT -5
Cooley isn't looking to lose Cook. Famous last words … |
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smokeyjack
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Post by smokeyjack on Feb 15, 2024 15:52:23 GMT -5
Assuming we keep hold of the core group from this year, we need a ball mover/handler, a 3 and D wing, and a rim protector. And yes, it is important that we keep the core, because whatever people think about the individuals (e.g., Epps is too Primo, Brumbaugh not a high major guard, Cook can't shoot FTs or block shots), having a core familiar with each other and the coaching staff is better than starting completely over for the 5th consecutive year. This off season will be the first true test of Cooley's ability to build a roster (where he has a full off season and something more than a blank slate at the outset). Hopefully he demonstrates that he can pull solid high major talent (with motors and physicality). Not directed at you, but getting so tired of hearing about this “core group” we have returning. This team is a disaster. Maybe we keep a few of the spare parts around, but to call it a returning core around which we can build is really stretching it - and ignoring what we’ve seen this season. We are essentially starting from scratch again. Could not possibly disagree more. The core of Cook, Brum, Stylez, Epps and DF is solid. We have no bench, no rebounders, no defensive bigs of any sort and a bunch of mostly very young talent that has been asked to play 1.5x the minutes they should be at this point. This team isn't a disaster; it is EXACTLY what anyone with a brain expected from a first-year coach entering a complete rebuild. Cooley isn't a quick-fix guy, because his primary coaching gift is creating culture and buy-in. That is impossible overnight. You sound like a 5-year-old Guru. Be better. |
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Post by hoyaatheart55 on Feb 15, 2024 15:57:49 GMT -5
So we going Ewing style with 3 centers again? Ewing took three centers in one class. I don't see a huge problem with having Cook (5th-year senior), Sorber (true freshman), and a transfer splitting the difference. I don’t think we should be basing any decisions off of what Patrick Ewing did |
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Post by hoyaatheart55 on Feb 15, 2024 16:01:15 GMT -5
Not directed at you, but getting so tired of hearing about this “core group” we have returning. This team is a disaster. Maybe we keep a few of the spare parts around, but to call it a returning core around which we can build is really stretching it - and ignoring what we’ve seen this season. We are essentially starting from scratch again. Could not possibly disagree more. The core of Cook, Brum, Stylez, Epps and DF is solid. We have no bench, no rebounders, no defensive bigs of any sort and a bunch of mostly very young talent that has been asked to play 1.5x the minutes they should be at this point. This team isn't a disaster; it is EXACTLY what anyone with a brain expected from a first-year coach entering a complete rebuild. Cooley isn't a quick-fix guy, because his primary coaching gift is creating culture and buy-in. That is impossible overnight. You sound like a 5-year-old Guru. Be better. I agree that we’re not going to be starting completely over but my brother in Christ we are 1-12 and look no better than we did in November. This is worse than “anyone with a brain” should have expected. I still believe in Coach Cooley though. |
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TC
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Post by TC on Feb 15, 2024 16:02:47 GMT -5
Cooley isn't looking to lose Cook. Famous last words … Supreme Cook sounded pretty sincere about wanting to return next year on that podcast this week. |
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Post by hoyasaxa18 on Feb 15, 2024 16:10:03 GMT -5
This may be an unpopular opinion, but I would prefer to move on from Cook after this season. He seems like a great kid, and he plays hard, but I actually think he is at the top of the list of what is wrong on defense. Our guards are obviously weak on the perimeter, but the complete and total lack of rim protection means that other teams can fearlessly run at the rim for layups without any reservations. Cook is solid offensively against non-top centers, but I would prefer to rotate Sorber and a transfer center like Okpara or Wolf. Who's the rim protector on PC's 8th ranked defense? How about Nova's 23rd ranked team? TC has mentioned the similarities between Gtown & ND all season since they chose to go young in Shrewsberry's 1st season. Who's the rim protector on their 41st ranked defense? The historically bad defense that we're seeing falls squarely on the lap of the staff in my view mainly because the team doesn't play hard enough consistently. It's true that you don't necessarily need rim protection to have a good defense, but it sure does make it easier. It's also possible to be a good interior defender without blocking a ton of shots, but Cook is awful in every respect defensively. The 5 is the most impactful defensive player on the floor - and upgrading that spot is the easiest way to improve the defense. |
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Feb 15, 2024 17:10:49 GMT -5
Cooley isn't looking to lose Cook. Famous last words … To clarify, I'm not guaranteeing that Cook is back next year. All I am suggesting is that I don't believe Cooley is going to push him out the door. |
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Feb 15, 2024 17:17:32 GMT -5
To clarify, I'm not guaranteeing that Cook is back next year. All I am suggesting is that I don't believe Cooley is going to push him out the door. I'm sure you realize there is some nuance between "pushing him out the door" and significantly paying for a new portal 4/5. That would indicate to Cook, along with Sorber coming in, that his minutes are likely to be reduced and he'd be at best the 3rd highest paid 4/5 on the team. Would you sign up for that if you're Supreme Cook and you were the best/most consistent/hardest working player on Cooley's first Hoyas team? Do you not think there is a market for a 5th year Supreme Cook coming off of the season he just had at Georgetown, if he made himself available? |
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guru
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Post by guru on Feb 15, 2024 17:21:45 GMT -5
Not directed at you, but getting so tired of hearing about this “core group” we have returning. This team is a disaster. Maybe we keep a few of the spare parts around, but to call it a returning core around which we can build is really stretching it - and ignoring what we’ve seen this season. We are essentially starting from scratch again. Could not possibly disagree more. The core of Cook, Brum, Stylez, Epps and DF is solid. We have no bench, no rebounders, no defensive bigs of any sort and a bunch of mostly very young talent that has been asked to play 1.5x the minutes they should be at this point. This team isn't a disaster; it is EXACTLY what anyone with a brain expected from a first-year coach entering a complete rebuild. Cooley isn't a quick-fix guy, because his primary coaching gift is creating culture and buy-in. That is impossible overnight. You sound like a 5-year-old Guru. Be better. Spare me the lectures Smokey. We disagree on whether our current group is a strong one on which to build. That’s all. I think there are a few decent parts that could work off the bench on a better team and I don’t consider that a solid foundation. You sound condescending. Are you that shocked that someone disagrees with you? |
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Feb 15, 2024 17:47:56 GMT -5
Who's the rim protector on PC's 8th ranked defense? How about Nova's 23rd ranked team? TC has mentioned the similarities between Gtown & ND all season since they chose to go young in Shrewsberry's 1st season. Who's the rim protector on their 41st ranked defense? The historically bad defense that we're seeing falls squarely on the lap of the staff in my view mainly because the team doesn't play hard enough consistently. It's true that you don't necessarily need rim protection to have a good defense, but it sure does make it easier. It's also possible to be a good interior defender without blocking a ton of shots, but Cook is awful in every respect defensively. The 5 is the most impactful defensive player on the floor - and upgrading that spot is the easiest way to improve the defense. I have to disagree again give me ball hawkers over shot blockers every day of the week. Ball hawkers make it hard to get the ball inside or get into sets. Houston is far & away the best defensive team stat-wise and their leading shot blocker gets 1.3 per game. |
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Feb 15, 2024 17:54:01 GMT -5
Not directed at you, but getting so tired of hearing about this “core group” we have returning. This team is a disaster. Maybe we keep a few of the spare parts around, but to call it a returning core around which we can build is really stretching it - and ignoring what we’ve seen this season. We are essentially starting from scratch again. Could not possibly disagree more. The core of Cook, Brum, Stylez, Epps and DF is solid. We have no bench, no rebounders, no defensive bigs of any sort and a bunch of mostly very young talent that has been asked to play 1.5x the minutes they should be at this point. This team isn't a disaster; it is EXACTLY what anyone with a brain expected from a first-year coach entering a complete rebuild. Cooley isn't a quick-fix guy, because his primary coaching gift is creating culture and buy-in. That is impossible overnight. You sound like a 5-year-old Guru. Be better. Who are you referring to when you say the "mostly very young talent that has been asked to play 1.5x the minutes they should be at this point"? We start 3 seniors every night (Heath, Cook and either Massoud or Bristol), a junior (Styles) and a sophomore (Epps). Two of the senior starters are 5th year seniors. That is not a young team in college basketball. Since the Big East season started, the only two freshmen that play - Brumbaugh and Fielder - are 7th and 8th on the team in minutes. They average 17.8 minutes and 13.4 minutes respectively, so collectively account for ~15% of the available minutes (30 out of 200 in any given game). The tragedy of this season isn't that we'll have a losing record in Cooley's first season, with some of the program's worst all-time losses and playing the worst defense statistically in program history. The tragedy of this season is that we've played that poorly, lost a ton of games and not really developed any significant pieces for the future. The only guys that have eligibility to be here more than just next season - Epps, Brumbaugh, and Fielder - we still don't really know what we have with them. Well, we might know on Epps, and what we know is that he might not be worth keeping given the way he plays. For the other two guys, it's pretty much been a lost year. All so Cooley could try to eek out a few more wins (unsuccessfully) playing Jay Heath, Ish Massoud and Wayne Bristol. Would seem like anyone with a brain might realize this wasn't a very sound strategy. |
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hoyazeke
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Post by hoyazeke on Feb 15, 2024 18:36:55 GMT -5
Could not possibly disagree more. The core of Cook, Brum, Stylez, Epps and DF is solid. We have no bench, no rebounders, no defensive bigs of any sort and a bunch of mostly very young talent that has been asked to play 1.5x the minutes they should be at this point. This team isn't a disaster; it is EXACTLY what anyone with a brain expected from a first-year coach entering a complete rebuild. Cooley isn't a quick-fix guy, because his primary coaching gift is creating culture and buy-in. That is impossible overnight. You sound like a 5-year-old Guru. Be better. Spare me the lectures Smokey. We disagree on whether our current group is a strong one on which to build. That’s all. I think there are a few decent parts that could work off the bench on a better team and I don’t consider that a solid foundation. You sound condescending. Are you that shocked that someone disagrees with you? I'm with Smokey on this subject. I don't know what some of you expected. D rarely improves with 5yr srs. RW and DF are really young and will need to understand that you can't outscore people on this level. Epps and Styles try but need to make it a priority. But you could see in the OOC that this team would struggle in conference. I thought that maybe they could shoot themselves into a few upsets, and maybe they will, but there D is too bad to get enough stops. Right now Cooley doesn't have the horses to win and that not changing this season. I'm really hoping for off-season improvement from DF, DM and RW. Epps is what he is but I believe that he would shoot less if he could depend on anyone to be more consistent. Long story short, Cooley can't make lemonade out of these lemons. But don't worry fellas, Cooley has more lemons in the tree. |
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Post by bornhoya on Feb 15, 2024 19:02:36 GMT -5
To clarify, I'm not guaranteeing that Cook is back next year. All I am suggesting is that I don't believe Cooley is going to push him out the door. I'm sure you realize there is some nuance between "pushing him out the door" and significantly paying for a new portal 4/5. That would indicate to Cook, along with Sorber coming in, that his minutes are likely to be reduced and he'd be at best the 3rd highest paid 4/5 on the team. Would you sign up for that if you're Supreme Cook and you were the best/most consistent/hardest working player on Cooley's first Hoyas team? Do you not think there is a market for a 5th year Supreme Cook coming off of the season he just had at Georgetown, if he made himself available? Like what Hoya fan wouldn’t want Cook back kid plays hard no matter the score |
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Feb 15, 2024 19:08:35 GMT -5
Seems relevant to the discussion..
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Feb 15, 2024 19:13:43 GMT -5
Seems relevant to the discussion.. Also, Ish's old coach....if that gives any more context. |
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guru
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Post by guru on Feb 15, 2024 21:10:47 GMT -5
I'm sure you realize there is some nuance between "pushing him out the door" and significantly paying for a new portal 4/5. That would indicate to Cook, along with Sorber coming in, that his minutes are likely to be reduced and he'd be at best the 3rd highest paid 4/5 on the team. Would you sign up for that if you're Supreme Cook and you were the best/most consistent/hardest working player on Cooley's first Hoyas team? Do you not think there is a market for a 5th year Supreme Cook coming off of the season he just had at Georgetown, if he made himself available? Like what Hoya fan wouldn’t want Cook back kid plays hard no matter the score Definitely want him back. I’d say he’s been the lone bright spot this season for the team. Just saying no one is guaranteed to come back anymore - to any team. And a player like Cook, who has been great for us but may be looking at a reduction in minutes next season, would seem like a prime candidate to move on. Hope he stays. |
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Feb 15, 2024 22:03:52 GMT -5
I think the portal wish list for the frontcourt is pretty straight forward. I'd like to see us invest our NIL money in the best center we can land. The guy from Yale might be a fit, but there will be many options 6 weeks from now if that doesn't pan out. I'd start Cook at 4 and the transfer at 5, and I'd have Sorber start the season backing up both and playing ~25 minutes a game. I would try to talk Fielder into coming back for another year to round out the remaining minutes with potential to play more if we have injuries or foul trouble, and with assurances that his role would expand as a junior when Cook graduates. If he's not feeling that I'd understand, and we'd need to pursue one last big in the portal--not somebody who would command any significant NIL, and someone who would be content with occasional minutes (10th man in a 9 man rotation). A graduate transfer from the patriot league or the CAA, something like that.... In some match ups it might be beneficial for us to go smaller and play someone like McKenna or Williams down a position at the 4. Not something we'd do regularly, but it's an option in a pinch.
On the wing, I don't think we need to do anything. Styles is good enough to be a starter on a winning team IMHO, and I'd like to see what McKenna and Williams can do backing him up. If Wayne wants to stay one last year and graduate a Hoya and try to push for minutes he has earned that. I don't think we should pursue wings in the portal unless there is some all-conference level stud who really wants to play for us, maybe then you make an exception and make it work, but otherwise we're ok there.
Backcourt is the hardest. Many seem to think that Epps is the linchpin to build around, I personally am not so sure. Volume shooting tweener who creates as many issues as he solves. If he is in the right frame of mind, great, let us keep him in the fold. But I think we should be pursuing the best point guards AND shooting guards we can find, and not worrying too much about how someone fits next to Epps. It'll be hard enough to find an elite guard to come here, we shouldn't be expecting them to cover for Epps's shortcomings too. Whoever the best guard transfers we can get are, we should take. If it's someone who doesn't fit nicely next to Epps, then maybe Epps slides to 6th man and we give more minutes to Mulready, Brumbaugh or another incoming transfer who is a better fit next to that lead guard. Or if Epps is not wild about that, his NIL is reinvested elsewhere. Not trying to chase the kid off by any means, a little continuity would be nice. But we badly need a talent infusion in the backcourt and expecting a stud guard who is also a perfect fit with the tweener we already have may be too much to ask for. I'd rather take the talent and shrink Epps's role if need be than to take some B- recruit just because he's good at some of the things Epps isn't.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by prhoya on Feb 15, 2024 22:26:25 GMT -5
I'd rather pencil in Cook for less than 20 minutes or move on actually. Why would Cook sign up for that? He’s arguably our best player, easily our most consistent. NIL is a two-way street. I highly doubt Cook will want to return if his role is reduced. If we go winless the rest of the way, then I don’t think there’s a NIL portal market for any of the players on the team. |
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