EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Feb 13, 2024 12:36:50 GMT -5
Too early for me to have strong feelings on specific players yet, though I wholeheartedly agree that the importance of this transfer class cannot be overstated. Make or break. I hate to seem like the guy who is overly negative on the current players. But there seems to be a lot of sentiment in the previous posts along the lines of "We can't take McDaniel, a McDaniel + Epps backcourt is too small" or "We can't take Mack, a Mack + Epps backcourt is too weak defensively" etc... And my thought on that is, are we sure we want to make Epps a centerpiece and build a team around him and all his strengths and weaknesses? He obviously has potential to go off for big scoring nights, which is seductive. But he's shooting 33.1% from the field in Big East play on a high volume of shots, he's not facilitator enough to play point guard and he's small to play shooting guard and not a great defender (like most everyone on this team). AND, he's probably expecting a lot in NIL. I'm not trying to bash him, he seemed like a nice guy in his interview with Bobby B. But strictly on the court, he profiles as one of those tweener guards who can put up a lot of points but is not actually helping a team win. He's not someone who is going to be good in a supporting role because he needs too many shots and he's not great in other areas of the game, but if you are handing him the keys you're probably not going to be a really good team despite him having an impressive PPG stat on the surface. I am not saying run the kid out of town or anything. Just that I'm not sure that we should be disqualifying potentially good transfers because they don't fit nicely next to him. If a lot of the good potential PG transfers are getting crossed off because they don't adequately compensate for the shortcomings of our current SG, maybe time to examine whether that SG is really good enough to warrant that. I mean what are the odds that we find a really good point guard, who actually WANTS to come to this team in its current state, and who also just so happens to compliment Epps perfectly? Most likely you'd have to compromise on something--either taking a more traditional point guard who does not compliment Epps well and makes for a "too small" back court, or find a tall point guard who can distribute and defend but who is not a highly sought after transfer and is more of a role player [and by the way, we arguably already have that guy on the roster and we're not thrilled with the idea of relying on Brumbaugh + Epps starting backcourt next year]. I know we all hate the perpetual roster turnover, but after yet another disappointing season, I don't think we can go into the offseason with anybody from the current team's spot for next year etched in stone. We need to get the best players that we can at whatever positions we can get them, and if that rubs any of the current guys the wrong way, best of luck to them at their next stop. The reason Epps name gets in the conversation is not that the staff is building around him(although I think they are) it's due to the fact he's the best guard on the team which means unless the staff pulls 2 or 3 transfer guards Epps will be in all line-up scenarios next season. To me, the priority has to be a T. Allen type or Jagan Mosely type. The roster desperately needs more ball movers |
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Post by bearsandbulls on Feb 13, 2024 12:50:28 GMT -5
Careful, Michigan is one of the top 3 or 4 public universities in the USA and at least on par with Georgetown. The question is which type school can be more lenient with athletes, and I think the answer is private schools. So, it becomes more of a "fit" thing with McDaniel. Michigan is a good school. But if you think it’s easier hide a non-academic athlete at a small private school than at a massive state school with a huge athletic program—including a premier FBS football program—I have a bridge to sell you. Well, Michigan is better at football and now BB than my alma mater Cal, but I know from being involved with both that it is harder for the athletes at Cal than at G'town. Cal has grad schools that are as hard as any to get in so grad transfers are out (minor exception would be School of Public Policy); also out of 125 football players there are only one or two that can major in Engineering, Computer Science, Architecture, etc. Too hard. Oh, and have to keep up grades with little faculty adoration or help. Now, granted Michigan is better in major sports but Cal is better in country club sports by a lot---swimming, water polo, rugby, crew, etc. But I have always heard of Michigan, UVA, and to a lesser degree UCLA to be on par with Cal academically. I have also been involved in intercollegiate sports at G'town from 2015 through 2023 with two students. I have seen (or not seen as the case may be) the lack of integration of BB players in the campus and academics excepting Mr. Blair of the McDonough School of Business. So bring on the bridge. |
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Feb 13, 2024 13:05:45 GMT -5
Assuming we keep hold of the core group from this year, we need a ball mover/handler, a 3 and D wing, and a rim protector. And yes, it is important that we keep the core, because whatever people think about the individuals (e.g., Epps is too Primo, Brumbaugh not a high major guard, Cook can't shoot FTs or block shots), having a core familiar with each other and the coaching staff is better than starting completely over for the 5th consecutive year. This off season will be the first true test of Cooley's ability to build a roster (where he has a full off season and something more than a blank slate at the outset). Hopefully he demonstrates that he can pull solid high major talent (with motors and physicality).
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guru
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Post by guru on Feb 13, 2024 13:23:39 GMT -5
Assuming we keep hold of the core group from this year, we need a ball mover/handler, a 3 and D wing, and a rim protector. And yes, it is important that we keep the core, because whatever people think about the individuals (e.g., Epps is too Primo, Brumbaugh not a high major guard, Cook can't shoot FTs or block shots), having a core familiar with each other and the coaching staff is better than starting completely over for the 5th consecutive year. This off season will be the first true test of Cooley's ability to build a roster (where he has a full off season and something more than a blank slate at the outset). Hopefully he demonstrates that he can pull solid high major talent (with motors and physicality). Not directed at you, but getting so tired of hearing about this “core group” we have returning. This team is a disaster. Maybe we keep a few of the spare parts around, but to call it a returning core around which we can build is really stretching it - and ignoring what we’ve seen this season. We are essentially starting from scratch again. |
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guru
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Post by guru on Feb 13, 2024 13:27:23 GMT -5
And by all means, yes, let’s keep raiding a mediocre program in our own conference and wish for a great leap of improvement. I mean the results so far speak for themselves. Let’s move the school to Providence while we’re at it.
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CTHoya08
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Post by CTHoya08 on Feb 13, 2024 13:49:56 GMT -5
Michigan is a good school. But if you think it’s easier hide a non-academic athlete at a small private school than at a massive state school with a huge athletic program—including a premier FBS football program—I have a bridge to sell you. Well, Michigan is better at football and now BB than my alma mater Cal, but I know from being involved with both that it is harder for the athletes at Cal than at G'town. Cal has grad schools that are as hard as any to get in so grad transfers are out (minor exception would be School of Public Policy); also out of 125 football players there are only one or two that can major in Engineering, Computer Science, Architecture, etc. Too hard. Oh, and have to keep up grades with little faculty adoration or help. Now, granted Michigan is better in major sports but Cal is better in country club sports by a lot---swimming, water polo, rugby, crew, etc. But I have always heard of Michigan, UVA, and to a lesser degree UCLA to be on par with Cal academically. I have also been involved in intercollegiate sports at G'town from 2015 through 2023 with two students. I have seen (or not seen as the case may be) the lack of integration of BB players in the campus and academics excepting Mr. Blair of the McDonough School of Business. So bring on the bridge. Michigan has 33,000 undergraduates and over 200 majors. Georgetown has about 7,500 and 50. If you really believe it’s easier to “hide” in the latter environment than the former, by all means, be my guest. I’m not talking about who has the hardest majors (or the smartest top students). I’m talking about who has more easy ones available. |
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thedragon
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Post by thedragon on Feb 13, 2024 13:51:38 GMT -5
And by all means, yes, let’s keep raiding a mediocre program in our own conference and wish for a great leap of improvement. I mean the results so far speak for themselves. Let’s move the school to Providence while we’re at it. Yea, a coach raiding his old team for the talent he recruited there is pretty unusual... Yea, trying to be emblematic of a middle of the pack Big East team who is likely to make the tourney is not what a program that is 3 for its last 50 in the conference should do... Yea, we should throw away a sophomore and two freshman because they didn't lead a recently winless team to more wins their first year on the hilltop... Lot of foolishness for a team that's gonna win 2 big east games instead of 5. |
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Post by raleighfriar on Feb 13, 2024 13:52:15 GMT -5
And by all means, yes, let’s keep raiding a mediocre program in our own conference and wish for a great leap of improvement. I mean the results so far speak for themselves. Let’s move the school to Providence while we’re at it. Couldn’t agree more (with most of it). We’re kind of wise to the game now, and if you don’t think we’ve shored up our side of things, then you are fooling yourselves. |
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on Feb 13, 2024 13:54:01 GMT -5
Assuming we keep hold of the core group from this year, we need a ball mover/handler, a 3 and D wing, and a rim protector. And yes, it is important that we keep the core, because whatever people think about the individuals (e.g., Epps is too Primo, Brumbaugh not a high major guard, Cook can't shoot FTs or block shots), having a core familiar with each other and the coaching staff is better than starting completely over for the 5th consecutive year. This off season will be the first true test of Cooley's ability to build a roster (where he has a full off season and something more than a blank slate at the outset). Hopefully he demonstrates that he can pull solid high major talent (with motors and physicality). Not directed at you, but getting so tired of hearing about this “core group” we have returning. This team is a disaster. Maybe we keep a few of the spare parts around, but to call it a returning core around which we can build is really stretching it - and ignoring what we’ve seen this season. We are essentially starting from scratch again. Agree to disagree. Continuity is a valuable asset in college basketball. This season has gone poorly (to say the least), but that does not mean that Epps/Brumbaugh/Cook/Styles/Bristol/Fielder are each irredeemable. If Heath and Massoud are each replaced by high level transfers, and we add rim protection, the outlook is looking very different next season (heck, this year would look different if we had those things). If the bulk of those guys move on and we start from scratch again, even if Cooley brings in some high level guys, its at least as likely we end up like West Virginia (or worse) than we wind up as Kansas State. |
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guru
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Post by guru on Feb 13, 2024 14:01:16 GMT -5
And by all means, yes, let’s keep raiding a mediocre program in our own conference and wish for a great leap of improvement. I mean the results so far speak for themselves. Let’s move the school to Providence while we’re at it. Yea, a coach raiding his old team for the talent he recruited there is pretty unusual... Yea, trying to be emblematic of a middle of the pack Big East team who is likely to make the tourney is not what a program that is 3 for its last 50 in the conference should do... Yea, we should throw away a sophomore and two freshman because they didn't lead a recently winless team to more wins their first year on the hilltop... Lot of foolishness for a team that's gonna win 2 big east games instead of 5. Who said to throw anyone away? We have a few players that could be useful on a better (and better-constructed) team. What we don’t have is any sort of solid core. |
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thedragon
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Post by thedragon on Feb 13, 2024 14:04:42 GMT -5
Yea, a coach raiding his old team for the talent he recruited there is pretty unusual... Yea, trying to be emblematic of a middle of the pack Big East team who is likely to make the tourney is not what a program that is 3 for its last 50 in the conference should do... Yea, we should throw away a sophomore and two freshman because they didn't lead a recently winless team to more wins their first year on the hilltop... Lot of foolishness for a team that's gonna win 2 big east games instead of 5. Who said to throw anyone away? We have a few players that could be useful on a better (and better-constructed) team. What we don’t have is any sort of solid core. We have different definitions of a core I guess. Maybe foundation is a better word. Having young guys who know the staff, the system, offer some continuity - is a net positive - even if they don't make up the core talent currently. |
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Post by hoyasaxa18 on Feb 13, 2024 14:06:15 GMT -5
Obviously there's a lot of negativity around the program, most of which is deserved. That being said, there are a few key variables in our favor. The first is NIL Budget - while Cooley has struggled on the court this year it sounds like he's doing a good job bringing donors back in, and $3mm ranks very highly among HM teams. The second is that the main benefit of our four-man freshman class is that we won't need to overpay for an Ish Massoud to fill spot #5 - 8 on the roster, as those spots will be filled by relatively low cost freshmen. That combined with our weak returning roster means that we should have a sizable amount available for three transfers. I'd ballpark it at $1.5mm for three starting spots.
If we stink again next year, this program might be beyond the point of no return. Cooley HAS to succeed in this portal, and he has the funds and the spots available to do so.
This portal season HAS to work out. We can only hope that it will.
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kettlehill
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Post by kettlehill on Feb 13, 2024 14:12:09 GMT -5
It seems to me that Cooley tried to hit a home run last Portal season with Dickerson and when that failed, he didn't adjust. Look at Butler: they got fine transfers from Northeastern and Bucknell. And you could say that Cooley's move that most exceeded expectations was from Fairfield. I watch the America East a lot because of my Vermont Catamounts and man there is some great young talent over there; guards Dion Brown at UMBC and Tariq Francis, both just scorched UVM's elite D for 25 and 31.
Just sayin...it doest all have to be Power 6. Scheirmann (sp?) came from South Dakota St. Summit league
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Feb 13, 2024 14:14:50 GMT -5
Not directed at you, but getting so tired of hearing about this “core group” we have returning. This team is a disaster. Maybe we keep a few of the spare parts around, but to call it a returning core around which we can build is really stretching it - and ignoring what we’ve seen this season. We are essentially starting from scratch again. I agree with this sentiment. I don't think we're in a place where we can or should be saying, "we need a 3 and D guy" or "we need a big guy who can protect the rim" or "we need a pass-first guard" or the like. That's the way to approach it if your team is actually pretty good and you just need to address one or two gaps to put you over the top. If your team stinks, which we do, you just need to get talented players above all else. Adding a 3-and-D wing and a rim protecting big guy doesn't amount to anything if your so called "core group" isn't good enough to win at this level. Of the 3 best players on our team, if you imagine what role they belong in on a team that's actually as good as we want to be, I'd say one is best suited as 4th or 5th best starter (DS), one is best suited as a microwave 6th man (JE) and one is a high effort 1st big man off the bench (SC). That's the "core group" right now. I don't think we should be trying to find players that slot in nicely around those guys, because that's not going to be enough. What we really need is a NEW "core group" and let the current players fit in around THEM--or, move on to somewhere else. I know it won't be easy, even with a nice budget, to land multiple players who are better than anyone on our current team, but I think that's what we need to get back to relevance. Plugging gaps around the margins won't be enough. |
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Feb 13, 2024 14:18:26 GMT -5
It seems to me that Cooley tried to hit a home run last Portal season with Dickerson and when that failed, he didn't adjust. Look at Butler: they got fine transfers from Northeastern and Bucknell. And you could say that Cooley's move that most exceeded expectations was from Fairfield. I watch the America East a lot because of my Vermont Catamounts and man there is some great young talent over there; guards Dion Brown at UMBC and Tariq Francis, both just scorched UVM's elite D for 25 and 31. Just sayin...it doest all have to be Power 6. Scheirmann (sp?) came from South Dakota St. Summit league Yes, this! I said this a couple of days ago. Plus, look for international players, players who want to come back home to the DMV, tourney team role players, and players recruited by Cooley at Providence who have a strong resumé at a mid-major. Really, it shouldn’t be hard to build a competitive team, even if we don’t hit a home run. |
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dense
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Post by dense on Feb 13, 2024 15:28:42 GMT -5
Too early for me to have strong feelings on specific players yet, though I wholeheartedly agree that the importance of this transfer class cannot be overstated. Make or break. I hate to seem like the guy who is overly negative on the current players. But there seems to be a lot of sentiment in the previous posts along the lines of "We can't take McDaniel, a McDaniel + Epps backcourt is too small" or "We can't take Mack, a Mack + Epps backcourt is too weak defensively" etc... And my thought on that is, are we sure we want to make Epps a centerpiece and build a team around him and all his strengths and weaknesses? He obviously has potential to go off for big scoring nights, which is seductive. But he's shooting 33.1% from the field in Big East play on a high volume of shots, he's not facilitator enough to play point guard and he's small to play shooting guard and not a great defender (like most everyone on this team). AND, he's probably expecting a lot in NIL. I'm not trying to bash him, he seemed like a nice guy in his interview with Bobby B. But strictly on the court, he profiles as one of those tweener guards who can put up a lot of points but is not actually helping a team win. He's not someone who is going to be good in a supporting role because he needs too many shots and he's not great in other areas of the game, but if you are handing him the keys you're probably not going to be a really good team despite him having an impressive PPG stat on the surface. I am not saying run the kid out of town or anything. Just that I'm not sure that we should be disqualifying potentially good transfers because they don't fit nicely next to him. If a lot of the good potential PG transfers are getting crossed off because they don't adequately compensate for the shortcomings of our current SG, maybe time to examine whether that SG is really good enough to warrant that. I mean what are the odds that we find a really good point guard, who actually WANTS to come to this team in its current state, and who also just so happens to compliment Epps perfectly? Most likely you'd have to compromise on something--either taking a more traditional point guard who does not compliment Epps well and makes for a "too small" back court, or find a tall point guard who can distribute and defend but who is not a highly sought after transfer and is more of a role player [and by the way, we arguably already have that guy on the roster and we're not thrilled with the idea of relying on Brumbaugh + Epps starting backcourt next year]. I know we all hate the perpetual roster turnover, but after yet another disappointing season, I don't think we can go into the offseason with anybody from the current team's spot for next year etched in stone. We need to get the best players that we can at whatever positions we can get them, and if that rubs any of the current guys the wrong way, best of luck to them at their next stop. The reason Epps name gets in the conversation is not that the staff is building around him(although I think they are) it's due to the fact he's the best guard on the team which means unless the staff pulls 2 or 3 transfer guards Epps will be in all line-up scenarios next season. To me, the priority has to be a T. Allen type or Jagan Mosely type. The roster desperately needs more ball movers Exactly to bring him in and in 1 year ship him out isn't gonna help you bring in anyone else. You are gonna have to make it work |
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dense
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Post by dense on Feb 13, 2024 15:31:55 GMT -5
Too early for me to have strong feelings on specific players yet, though I wholeheartedly agree that the importance of this transfer class cannot be overstated. Make or break. I hate to seem like the guy who is overly negative on the current players. But there seems to be a lot of sentiment in the previous posts along the lines of "We can't take McDaniel, a McDaniel + Epps backcourt is too small" or "We can't take Mack, a Mack + Epps backcourt is too weak defensively" etc... And my thought on that is, are we sure we want to make Epps a centerpiece and build a team around him and all his strengths and weaknesses? He obviously has potential to go off for big scoring nights, which is seductive. But he's shooting 33.1% from the field in Big East play on a high volume of shots, he's not facilitator enough to play point guard and he's small to play shooting guard and not a great defender (like most everyone on this team). AND, he's probably expecting a lot in NIL. I'm not trying to bash him, he seemed like a nice guy in his interview with Bobby B. But strictly on the court, he profiles as one of those tweener guards who can put up a lot of points but is not actually helping a team win. He's not someone who is going to be good in a supporting role because he needs too many shots and he's not great in other areas of the game, but if you are handing him the keys you're probably not going to be a really good team despite him having an impressive PPG stat on the surface. I am not saying run the kid out of town or anything. Just that I'm not sure that we should be disqualifying potentially good transfers because they don't fit nicely next to him. If a lot of the good potential PG transfers are getting crossed off because they don't adequately compensate for the shortcomings of our current SG, maybe time to examine whether that SG is really good enough to warrant that. I mean what are the odds that we find a really good point guard, who actually WANTS to come to this team in its current state, and who also just so happens to compliment Epps perfectly? Most likely you'd have to compromise on something--either taking a more traditional point guard who does not compliment Epps well and makes for a "too small" back court, or find a tall point guard who can distribute and defend but who is not a highly sought after transfer and is more of a role player [and by the way, we arguably already have that guy on the roster and we're not thrilled with the idea of relying on Brumbaugh + Epps starting backcourt next year]. I know we all hate the perpetual roster turnover, but after yet another disappointing season, I don't think we can go into the offseason with anybody from the current team's spot for next year etched in stone. We need to get the best players that we can at whatever positions we can get them, and if that rubs any of the current guys the wrong way, best of luck to them at their next stop. Well you have to have this stuff thought out because the portal opens in little under a month. People seem to think it's early but it's really down the line in the process. Mark Fox better have lines in the water already at least thru some of the proxies for these players or you are already out. |
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Post by bearsandbulls on Feb 13, 2024 15:41:54 GMT -5
Well, Michigan is better at football and now BB than my alma mater Cal, but I know from being involved with both that it is harder for the athletes at Cal than at G'town. Cal has grad schools that are as hard as any to get in so grad transfers are out (minor exception would be School of Public Policy); also out of 125 football players there are only one or two that can major in Engineering, Computer Science, Architecture, etc. Too hard. Oh, and have to keep up grades with little faculty adoration or help. Now, granted Michigan is better in major sports but Cal is better in country club sports by a lot---swimming, water polo, rugby, crew, etc. But I have always heard of Michigan, UVA, and to a lesser degree UCLA to be on par with Cal academically. I have also been involved in intercollegiate sports at G'town from 2015 through 2023 with two students. I have seen (or not seen as the case may be) the lack of integration of BB players in the campus and academics excepting Mr. Blair of the McDonough School of Business. So bring on the bridge. Michigan has 33,000 undergraduates and over 200 majors. Georgetown has about 7,500 and 50. If you really believe it’s easier to “hide” in the latter environment than the former, by all means, be my guest. I’m not talking about who has the hardest majors (or the smartest top students). I’m talking about who has more easy ones available. Georgetown is a private school and I have come to love so much about it, but disclosure is not needed to the extent of publics. I have experienced U$C in the Pac12 since I was a youngster in the 1950s and watched what they get away with absent any disclosure. Stanfurd is the same but with a lot more integrity. If you disagree so strongly and cast out generalities that relate to school size, take a good firm look at the grad rate and the particulars of each grad in the Hoya basketball program since 2015. We could go back longer, but I feel familiar with same back that far. BB is floating out there in its own world. The country club sports at Georgetown are closely reflective of the GPAs of the general student body. |
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Feb 13, 2024 15:47:12 GMT -5
The reason Epps name gets in the conversation is not that the staff is building around him(although I think they are) it's due to the fact he's the best guard on the team which means unless the staff pulls 2 or 3 transfer guards Epps will be in all line-up scenarios next season. To me, the priority has to be a T. Allen type or Jagan Mosely type. The roster desperately needs more ball movers Exactly to bring him in and in 1 year ship him out isn't gonna help you bring in anyone else. You are gonna have to make it work It's all about the Benjamins, baby...if we throw enough money at somebody, he's not going to care if Jayden Epps wasn't asked back after a mediocre first year at Georgetown. |
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Feb 13, 2024 19:49:23 GMT -5
Assuming we keep hold of the core group from this year, we need a ball mover/handler, a 3 and D wing, and a rim protector. And yes, it is important that we keep the core, because whatever people think about the individuals (e.g., Epps is too Primo, Brumbaugh not a high major guard, Cook can't shoot FTs or block shots), having a core familiar with each other and the coaching staff is better than starting completely over for the 5th consecutive year. This off season will be the first true test of Cooley's ability to build a roster (where he has a full off season and something more than a blank slate at the outset). Hopefully he demonstrates that he can pull solid high major talent (with motors and physicality). Not directed at you, but getting so tired of hearing about this “core group” we have returning. This team is a disaster. Maybe we keep a few of the spare parts around, but to call it a returning core around which we can build is really stretching it - and ignoring what we’ve seen this season. We are essentially starting from scratch again. Why do you bemoan the lack of player stability by suggesting more player instability? |
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