prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jan 12, 2024 14:01:07 GMT -5
But who is the more shotblocking and better size that is coming. The 6'10 freshman? I think the one thing we both agree on is it's way too much to expect Sorber to be the defensive difference maker to turn this all around. Yes he gives us a low post presence and maybe a better rebounder than Cook which helps the team but we have so far to come. Let's call it rim protection rather than shot blocking since that's much more important. There are a number of potential sources: - Improvement by Fielder leads to more minutes and better defensive play by him
- The addition of a better Fielder and Sorber leads to more two big lineups, leading to strong interior defense, as well as the better rebounding dynamic that allows for more contests
- See the above but also with a decent defensive transfer
You've said this a lot but it's not true. Yes, staying in front of your man is very important and a way for improvement, but the idea that better rim protection is neither possible nor particularly meaningful is incorrect. Like I said, Jesse Sapp, Jon Wallace and a freshman DaJuan Summer started on an elite defense. And then next year, Sapp, Wallace, Summers and a freshman Austin Freeman started on a Top 10 defense (I thought it #2, it was #6 apparently). All under a coach people couldn't wait to get rid of, I might add. Tell me the plus defender in that group, because there isn't one. There was just one on the court, and that was Roy Hibbert. Anyway, the idea of a defense staying in front of their guy being the answer is completely useless in the modern game. Even in the college there's guys who can't be guarded one on one. In the NBA, that's half the league, but somehow, there's still good defenses. Because defenses succeed as a team, with smart rotations and help. And that's how we'll have a good defense, when we do. Not because we suddenly have five lock down defenders, but because we have some good defenders, but we know how to move as a team. I think we've actually seen improvement already on the number of space out moments, for example. You seem very certain no improvement can occur: players can't get better, the team can't improve as a team, we can't bring in anyone even decent to help. I disagree with all that; I think there are a number of baby steps that make this is a serviceable, if not necessarily good, defense. - Improved rim protection from Sorber, Fielder, a transfer or a combo
- Less "lost" plays due to personnel change, improvement or improved time together and coaching
- Improved D rebounding due to an increase in functional size and strength, leading to less easy putbacks
- Improved transition D due to coaching
Opponents shoot about 35 or so 2s a game (not including fts from 2s). A ten percent change in effectiveness is 3.5 buckets a game -- or 7 points. Take each of the four points above -- and take away two easy buckets from the opponent and make them harder -- just 2! -- and how many buckets go down? A 10% drop in effectiveness, by the way, would make pretty damn good on 2 pt % on the year, so I certainly don't that. The point is that our defense is not poor if you take away the clear errors -- the lost men, the transition D, and the offensive boards. It's passable; it's those mistakes that make it bad. And we'll be replacing two of the guys who lose their men or can't keep the player in front of them most consistently. We're also losing a "PF" who gets less than 15% of defensive rebounds. Fixing the very clear dumb mistakes and problems is doable (mostly -- I don't know that we will be a good rebounding team soon) and there's enough of them that it can make a significant difference. Take away three buckets a game. That's what we need to beat Seton Hall and TCU and toss in Epps and we beat Butler, too. We're just making too many mistakes with our talent. I'm not saying we will definitively get demonstrably better, but I really don't see why you think it's impossible or even unlikely. It's only that if you think that (a) college basketball players can't improve and (b) Cooley can't bring any improvement in coaching despite a long track record of doing so. Opponents are shooting 30%. If it were so simple as "Our total defense sucks but they are just picking the easy two" a) they wouldn't be picking a two over an open 3 because any shooter who expects to hit over 40% on an open three, which is a lot of them, would choose that and b) the fact that they are only taking really smart and easy 3s would lead to a much higher FG% unless our opponents are simply morons. Yes, there's a tie between the low number of 3s and low 3 pt % we are giving up and the high 2pt FG% we are giving up. But it's not as if our defense is so pathetic opponents can pick and choose an easy shot anywhere. We don't give up a ton of open threes -- in sharp contrast to last year. We're simply not doing well enough contesting shots and rebounding misses. If Sorber is a defensive relevation you will see the defense improve immensely. I don't expect him to be. But if he is... the defense will leap forward. We don't give up a ton of wide open threes. Yes, we give up some -- nearly everyone does. Most of them are people overhelping, and a large percentage of those won't be back next year. Some will, but that's also teachable. I know we had Ewing for a while and we never saw improvement, but again, there's improvement there for even a mediocre coach. When did I say it was? I simply think there's a lot of improvement to be had in various places. The difference between you and I isn't that -- it's that you don't think anyone or anything on this team other than maybe Fielder can improve. Despite the focus on the freshman to sophomore year jump, college basketball players make significant leaps between any year. We've had a ton of guys go from inefficient to effective between soph and junior year. We've had guys unexpectedly become stars as seniors. The good thing is that we don't need to count on an aberration in growth. We don't need EVERYONE to improve or someone to make a gigantic leap. We don't need all four freshman to be ready. A few improvements here or there. Two of the freshman contribute. A good transfer or two. Grab two more defensive boards per game. Stop one transition bucket. Reduce the "lost" moments by 3-4 a game. Rowan become a high 30s/low 40s 3pt shooter. Fielder add 10-15 pounds of muscle. Epps make four better decisions. Sorber and Mulready are ready. Now add a couple of average transfers and this is a real team, perhaps even a bubble team with some luck. It's a big jump, for sure. I don't know that we're a tournament team next year, at least not certain. But I don't think you need to "blow up the core" to get to a bubble team. Mostly because we're adding significantly to the core in my scenario as well as shifting minutes and improving our core. Our "core" is 5 playing about 60% of the minutes as you note, but a) Even by your metrics, the players losing minutes last year are all at the bottom of BPM (which I don't love, but it's probably overrating Cook and underrating Epps) for this team except Brumbaugh, who has been below 0, and Bristol, who has been above. b) If we get two good transfers, and add 2-3 freshman ready to play, it's not just the Heath minutes replaced, it's the Bacote and Mutombo and so on. Furthermore, it'll also be the Brumbaugh and Styles, Cook and so on if they don't improve. If we get a big transfer and Sorber is good, and Fielder improves ... Cook, who has been mediocre at best, isn't playing 70% of minutes anymore. Or he's improved enough. Same with Brumbaugh. If he doesn't improve, and we get a guard transfer and Mulready and Williams ... he's going to bench. And even the same with Styles -- we could three guard even if McKenna or there's no wing transfer. Those transfers don't have to be stars -- they just have to be better. c) Or those players improve. I don't expect Brumbaugh to be a negative contributor next year. I can see both Styles and Epps improving in terms of decision making. Fielder is already improving leaps and bounds -- just him going from 40% to 65-70% of minutes probably improves this team 2-3 points this year, much less with improvement in play. Would it better to get two absolutely stars in the transfer market? Sure. But even with the defensive assignment of BPM that says Heath is a much better defender than Epps, Epps is a 4.5 point better player than Heath -- and more, if you think they are closer in defensive ability (so, about 6 points per 100). That's about 4 in an actual game, but an Epps 2.0 transfer + Fielder improvement and minutes gets us about halfway there. Your target goals and timelines are jumping around on me. If your point is that this team isn't lock for a bid next year without major transfers in, I'd agree. I don't even think they are a lock to be a bubble team because I don't know how much improvement or what transfers or how good the freshmen will be. If you think we're doomed for three years from now, I think are engaging in a complete doom loop. But I think you are writing off players way too early, writing off Cooley way too early, and underestimating how many simple things to fix out there can be improved. If we had a healthy Epps and Massoud was half the player he was last year, we're very possibly 3-2 in the Big East this year and thinking differently. We're way off from contending, but we're not as functionally far from the middle of the pack as the numbers would imply, IMO. I counted 27 "if"s in SF's post (very bad for a drinking game! ). Good points all around for the both of you and everyone else speculating here! Everyone's "if"s are equally valid at this point.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 12, 2024 14:02:52 GMT -5
In you're scenario what level of transfer do you think we come here to play backup to a team coming off a 10th place Big East finish and what impact can they really make that makes this team take a huge leap? Let's define the issue here - last year you had the issue that with 10 open slots on the roster and coming off of 2-37, you had a hard time convincing 5th years that you were going to be competitive enough to be worth signing on for their last year. What was at work there wasn't just the 2-37 record, but the 10 open slots and that no one wants to sign onto a roster that turns out to be vaporware. We're also not sure of what the NIL situation was last year. 2024 : - I don't have a crystal ball, but this year you probably enter the portal with either 3, 4, or 5 open slots. That is drastically different than 10, and much easier to recruit because recruits can see where they would fit and who they compete against. - supposedly we have the NIL issue worked out (see tweets from Trilly Donovan and John Fanta expressing that) - the talent level of your returning team is drastically better with the core and the freshman At the very least, do we think we're going to do worse than last year at the portal? Last year we pulled Epps, Styles, Rowan, and Cook out of the portal - with all of the issues that we were facing. Even if you don't improve on that at all and all you do is that you replicate the underclassman talent level you pulled in last year - that's enough to get us to the bubble with the freshman and the core. There's a lot of factors that I think are an additional help to us this year though - the pool that we are able to draw from may be much bigger if the year in residence for multiple-time transfers is abandoned, and it may involve players that Cooley has personal connections with that he was unable to draw last year. I personally think our transfer window last year had a lot to do with Cooley being relatively new on the job, wanting to establish a landscape, our NIL efforts being in their nascent stages and simply not enough time to sell or make an impact. I think he knows he has a bit of time with Georgetown and didn't see anything he wanted except maybe a home run. If we do not improve or string some wins together this year, it will be harder than if we do. But I doubt Cooley is a poor recruiter, and he's shown an ability to identify undervalued talent at Providence, so unless the promised NIL money is not there -- which is a huge problem -- I think we should be able to get a couple of contributors. I don't know how a transfer -- especially a senior or upperclassmen -- scared off by Cook, Fielder and Sorber. The latter two have a ton of talent, but it's almost a perfect setting for an upperclassman who is better than Cook to come in, get minutes and finish out their college career. The challenge will be selling a couple of guys that this team can make a run with the freshmen. Similarly, for a point guard, your point of static are Epps' career aspirations. Rowan might end up a pretty good player, but he's not scaring anyone off. Mulready and Williams are freshmen and combo guards. I think Cooley can weave a story for a big and a point that with them, the other pieces make a very good cast. It's going to be a challenge if we don't grab some wins, but it's not impossible. And it doesn't require Hunter Dickinson or the equivalent. ... But this is all kind of my point to the team strategy. We're not a school that is going to be successful living and dying by the transfer portal. There's still some pretense at academics; our recent reputation is terrible; our NIL might end up okay but will be dwarfed by big state schools and blue bloods. Development, retention, playing as a team and veteran teams is the long term way to win. The transfer portal is a valuable tool, but Georgetown isn't going to win by turning over the team every year.
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Post by dariantownesvanzandt on Jan 12, 2024 14:04:37 GMT -5
You can definitely spend 4 years plus a grad year at the same school. The link above is talking about the one-time transfer exception - if you continue graduate study at the same institution, by definition you would not be a transfer and you would not need the one-time transfer exception. Can you provide an example of someone who spent 4 undergrad years at the same school then a grad year (5 years total while using 4 years Of eligibility with the last year being used during the grad year) Jordan Bohannon spent six years at Iowa - two after graduating, I believe.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jan 12, 2024 14:11:34 GMT -5
How about we make a new thread for the future frontcourt situation? Just to keep it all together... Yes, this is a good discussion which could be lost in this thread.
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 12, 2024 14:11:39 GMT -5
Can you provide an example of someone who spent 4 undergrad years at the same school then a grad year (5 years total while using 4 years Of eligibility with the last year being used during the grad year) Jordan Bohannon spent six years at Iowa - two after graduating, I believe. According to this he was Freshman Sophomore Junior Red shirt senior Senior Senior Not a grad www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/jordan-bohannon-1.html
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 12, 2024 14:17:18 GMT -5
I just want say there have been some great posts from SFHoya99 this week. Very enjoyable to read. To get a little more macro, I do think some Georgetown fans--and I do not blame them at all--are still so used to the Ewing years where year after year we had no improvement (and at the end, regression), that it is easy to think that what you see is what you get; that we will not improve next year; we just need more talent. Defense truly is a sum of the parts and working together. We aren't where I wanted to see us this year, but I 100% believe we can be better than we are right now, even without better talent. I think we have seen some incremental improvements too. It would not shock me if by March we are playing much better defense, though I do think we have some limitations (like Cook not defensive rebounding well) that are tough to fix without a change in the roster. As SFHoya99 pointed out, the 2008 team did have one elite guy in Hibbert, but that was an excellent defensive team on the backs of other guys who were good/solid defenders, but not elite level in their own right. And while that team had some size, other than Hibbert, the higher usage guys were fairly short too--Sapp, Wallace, Freeman, for example. Statistically, at least, we had an even better defense in 2012-2013. People often forget about that team since it crapped the bed against FGCU, but that was another team that had one elite guy in Porter, but the rest of the roster had solid guys, but no superstars: DSR, Starks, Hopkins, Lubick, Bowen, Trawick, Moses Ayegba (Whittington until he was ineligible--he didn't play most of the Big East season). Based on those names, would anybody have predicted that was a lock for the #4 defense nationally? I don't think so. Of course, having a lotto pick or close to lotto-pick level player helps a lot. But even the 2015 team, which did not have Porter, but instead had Josh Smith, DSR, Bowen, Trawick, Peak, Hopkins, Copeland, White, etc. was ranked 33 in defense. That was a taller team, though Copeland was terrible on defense, so I am not sure how much the size actually did for us. And as we all know, Smith wasn't exactly mobile. Point being: we can definitely be a lot better on defense without superstar transfers or Sorber coming in freshman year as a defensive beast.
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Post by dariantownesvanzandt on Jan 12, 2024 14:17:40 GMT -5
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 12, 2024 14:22:11 GMT -5
I just want say there have been some great posts from SFHoya99 this week. Very enjoyable to read. To get a little more macro, I do think some Georgetown fans--and I do not blame them at all--are still so used to the Ewing years where year after year we had no improvement (and at the end, regression), that it is easy to think that what you see is what you get; that we will not improve next year; we just need more talent. Defense truly is a sum of the parts and working together. We aren't where I wanted to see us this year, but I 100% believe we can be better than we are right now, even without better talent. I think we have seen some incremental improvements too. It would not shock me if by March we are playing much better defense, though I do think we have some limitations (like Cook not defensive rebounding well) that are tough to fix without a change in the roster. As SFHoya99 pointed out, the 2008 team did have one elite guy in Hibbert, but that was an excellent defensive team on the backs of other guys who were good/solid defenders, but not elite level in their own right. And while that team had some size, other than Hibbert, the higher usage guys were fairly short too--Sapp, Wallace, Freeman, for example. Statistically, at least, we had an even better defense in 2012-2013. People often forget about that team since it crapped the bed against FGCU, but that was another team that had one elite guy in Porter, but the rest of the roster had solid guys, but no superstars: DSR, Starks, Hopkins, Lubick, Bowen, Trawick, Moses Ayegba (Whittington until he was ineligible--he didn't play most of the Big East season). Based on those names, would anybody have predicted that was a lock for the #4 defense nationally? I don't think so. Of course, having a lotto pick or close to lotto-pick level player helps a lot. But even the 2015 team, which did not have Porter, but instead had Josh Smith, DSR, Bowen, Trawick, Peak, Hopkins, Copeland, White, etc. was ranked 33 in defense. That was a taller team, though Copeland was terrible on defense, so I am not sure how much the size actually did for us. And as we all know, Smith wasn't exactly mobile. Point being: we can definitely be a lot better on defense without superstar transfers or Sorber coming in freshman year as a defensive beast. College Porter was like Draymond Green on defense with an absurd mid-range game on offense. Sooooo good. In the pessimists' defense, we will not have Jr/Sr Roy Hibbert or Soph Otto Porter on next year's team. But then again, I'm not trying to get to a Top 10 defense but rather respectability.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Jan 12, 2024 14:26:13 GMT -5
You can definitely spend 4 years plus a grad year at the same school. The link above is talking about the one-time transfer exception - if you continue graduate study at the same institution, by definition you would not be a transfer and you would not need the one-time transfer exception. Can you provide an example of someone who spent 4 undergrad years at the same school then a grad year (5 years total while using 4 years Of eligibility with the last year being used during the grad year) Nate Watson, Colin Gillespie, Jermaine Samuels, Brandon Slater, Paul Scruggs, Aaron Thompson, Myles Cale ect.. I know the Ewing years were a blur to you but you have to remember some of these players sticking around due to covid
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Jan 12, 2024 14:41:50 GMT -5
In you're scenario what level of transfer do you think we come here to play backup to a team coming off a 10th place Big East finish and what impact can they really make that makes this team take a huge leap? Let's define the issue here - last year you had the issue that with 10 open slots on the roster and coming off of 2-37, you had a hard time convincing 5th years that you were going to be competitive enough to be worth signing on for their last year. What was at work there wasn't just the 2-37 record, but the 10 open slots and that no one wants to sign onto a roster that turns out to be vaporware. We're also not sure of what the NIL situation was last year. 2024 : - I don't have a crystal ball, but this year you probably enter the portal with either 3, 4, or 5 open slots. That is drastically different than 10, and much easier to recruit because recruits can see where they would fit and who they compete against. - supposedly we have the NIL issue worked out (see tweets from Trilly Donovan and John Fanta expressing that) - the talent level of your returning team is drastically better with the core and the freshman At the very least, do we think we're going to do worse than last year at the portal? Last year we pulled Epps, Styles, Rowan, and Cook out of the portal - with all of the issues that we were facing. Even if you don't improve on that at all and all you do is that you replicate the underclassman talent level you pulled in last year - that's enough to get us to the bubble with the freshman and the core. There's a lot of factors that I think are an additional help to us this year though - the pool that we are able to draw from may be much bigger if the year in residence for multiple-time transfers is abandoned, and it may involve players that Cooley has personal connections with that he was unable to draw last year. TC, you and I don't always agree, but I think this post was extremely well-stated (even if it goes a bit farther thank I would with excuses for last year's portal class). I just hope you hold to the point that we should be contending for the NCAA Tournament next season. The ongoing campaign of lowering expectations followed by "you better show up to Capital One to watch our 2023-2024 team" can get a little tiresome.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jan 12, 2024 14:43:05 GMT -5
Defense truly is a sum of the parts and working together. I agree with your overall point. As SFHoya99 pointed out, the 2008 team did have one elite guy in Hibbert, but that was an excellent defensive team on the backs of other guys who were good/solid defenders, but not elite level in their own right. And while that team had some size, other than Hibbert, the higher usage guys were fairly short too--Sapp, Wallace, Freeman, for example. The FF team and Hibbert's senior team were very efficient offensively which contributed to their outstanding defense. I remember the TV crew saying that once the opponent fell behind GU, it could never catch up and that the key was staying as close as possible. Our offensive game added tremendous pressure on the opponent's offensive game, which in turn helped our defense. Statistically, at least, we had an even better defense in 2012-2013. People often forget about that team since it crapped the bed against FGCU, but that was another team that had one elite guy in Porter, but the rest of the roster had solid guys, but no superstars: DSR, Starks, Hopkins, Lubick, Bowen, Trawick, Moses Ayegba (Whittington until he was ineligible--he didn't play most of the Big East season). Based on those names, would anybody have predicted that was a lock for the #4 defense nationally? I don't think so. That was one tough defensive group, again with some stellar offensive players creating pressure for the opponent. DSR, Starks and Trawick were outstanding college players who consistently played their roles. We would be lucky to have a trio like that together again. Otto, Lubick and Hopkins were strong defensive players and anyone of them would be the best defensive front court player this year. Even adding Moses and Bowen, no one was soft.
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thedragon
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Post by thedragon on Jan 12, 2024 15:52:35 GMT -5
One more point. It's a small sample, but where we are poor in the Big East this year defensively is 2pt FG% and defensive rebounding. We're a disastrous 11th and 295th in the country (inc. non-conference) in the former and 10th and 282nd in the latter. More shotblocking and better size down low will absolutely make a huge impact. Offensively, we have terrible 2 pt % and we turn the ball over too much. I don't think it is as clear how to improve that, but if someone can get any kind of low post game and presence there, it will help. But who is the more shotblocking and better size that is coming. The 6'10 freshman? I think the one thing we both agree on is it's way too much to expect Sorber to be the defensive difference maker to turn this all around. Yes he gives us a low post presence and maybe a better rebounder than Cook which helps the team but we have so far to come. The defensive difference has to be made staying in front of guys and not getting completely lost on defense. It's not that we are a good 3 point defense this year. It's that we are so bad in close that it's smart to take those shots. Even if Sorber is a defensive revelation then teams will just go back to shooting the wide open 3's we give up. This is not a 1 aspect fix. It's also not like the offense good. It's average although that could be tournament level with the new pieces and addition by subtraction. Even if we make a 100 spot jump in KP we still aren't a tournament team. That is why it's hard for me to see bring back the same core and getting excited. edit. - I guess the TLDR is I don't think you can bring back 60%ish of a team that is this bad and expect them to make the leap necessary. So either Cooley blows up the core or we improve but not nearly enough. This is repetitive by me, and I use them as I have previously solely because I think they're the prototypes of what the staff is looking for and make the point. Let's just say we have 4 transfer spots and use 3 of them. 2 of the 3 transfers are Devin Carter. Bryce Hopkins (healthy - again this is just an exercise). Epps, Rowan Carter, Mulready Styles, Transfer, McKenna, Williams Hopkins, Fielder Sorber, Cook traversb - is this a tournament team?
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 12, 2024 17:32:47 GMT -5
The FF team and Hibbert's senior team were very efficient offensively which contributed to their outstanding defense. I remember the TV crew saying that once the opponent fell behind GU, it could never catch up and that the key was staying as close as possible. Our offensive game added tremendous pressure on the opponent's offensive game, which in turn helped our defense. This is of course true of the 2008 team. It's also easy to forget that the 2008 team truly played at a slow pace, not to mention there was as 35 second shot clock at the time, too. I think your point on the offense helping the defense is less true of the 2013 team that was ranked 4th on defense but only 80 on offense. So that is an example of a team that was great on defense, while not as good on offense (while good defensively, that frontcourt of Hopkins/Lubick/Moses was terrible on offense). That team's offense was largely Otto Porter plus a junior Starks, and freshman DSR. Statistically, at least, we had an even better defense in 2012-2013. People often forget about that team since it crapped the bed against FGCU, but that was another team that had one elite guy in Porter, but the rest of the roster had solid guys, but no superstars: DSR, Starks, Hopkins, Lubick, Bowen, Trawick, Moses Ayegba (Whittington until he was ineligible--he didn't play most of the Big East season). Based on those names, would anybody have predicted that was a lock for the #4 defense nationally? I don't think so. That was one tough defensive group, again with some stellar offensive players creating pressure for the opponent. DSR, Starks and Trawick were outstanding college players who consistently played their roles. We would be lucky to have a trio like that together again. Otto, Lubick and Hopkins were strong defensive players and anyone of them would be the best defensive front court player this year. Even adding Moses and Bowen, no one was soft. On this one, I agree with you on DSR, Starks, and Trawick (when he was an upperclassman, less so when he was an underclassman)--all very solid college players. The 2013 NCAA loss is still the one that burns me most of all. Before the FGCU loss, that team had only lost 6 games all season, and all to good teams except South Florida. While 2015 was a pretty good team, the FGCU loss really set things in motion to go downhill. Given what we have dealt with for the last several years, it's hard to imagine a 6-7 loss team. That'd be pretty awesome. I would add that while I agree with you, a lot of people thought the post-Hibbert era JT3 teams were soft, especially in the later years, so interesting for you to say "no one was soft." I agree, but I think at the time many on HoyaTalk did not.
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hoyainspirit
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Post by hoyainspirit on Jan 12, 2024 20:00:08 GMT -5
This thread evolved into a quite interesting discussion, one of the best I've read here in a while. Thx to all who've contributed.
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saxagael
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Post by saxagael on Jan 13, 2024 13:50:59 GMT -5
In post game presser Cooley called out three things need to always be insync: The best scorer (didn't name); point guards (named Epps and Rowan); and the coach. He said if one is out of sync it is trouble, if who are there are real issues. Epps was on, Cooley said he himself was out of sync, and Rowan didn't play much (Heath hasn't been called out by Cooley at all this year as a PG, but Rowan has). Rowan doesn't dribble to set himself up, it is to get a good solid pass and to read the defense and create a mismatch and pass into that mismatch. If he is dribbling a lot players aren't getting open and there isn't an optimal pass. Also has drilled into him not to pick-up the dribble until you have a place to go with the ball (a serious DMV travel team obsession, particularly his coaches). I didn't catch the first part of the game, but in the second half with Rowan was in Styles just camped out and didn't move, similar with Ish, Epps is very mobile, Cook will set a solid pick. Cooley has been running motion with Epps, Rowan, and Syles (sometimes) running off low elbow picks and loop back to pick up the ball and / or shoot off the space they get. The motion and rotations are insanely slow. Much of the Hall game it was the third rotation before the ball moved off point, it wasn't working. If you dribble too much or are too ball dominant then your teammates lose interest cause they aren’t getting touches. That is always on the point guard or QB of the offense so to speak Agree. Also must consider when running motion and screen to keep dribbling until there is a place to go with the ball. The Hoyas now running double screens to get Epps, Styles, Heath (doesn't finish running through them), and Rowan open. Heath picks up the ball early when on ball (Heath on ball isn't a great option) and Epps and Rowan will keep the dribble going, which is that they should be doing. This is the same offense Marquette, Providence, Villanova, and Butler would run against Ewing Hoyas and end up with wide open 3s. The key is two things: 1) keep dribbling until a player opens (always run this with two players running the loop; 2) run the loops quickly while in the cycle until the ball is to one of the two or the PG calls it off (Heath gives up after one cycle, Ish when he was in it never finished one loop, Styles stall, and Epps and Rowan run it well but not that quickly). They will get there.
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jwp91
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by jwp91 on Jan 13, 2024 17:56:06 GMT -5
I was watching St. John’s vs. Creighton. St. John’s weave was producing different opportunities. Many times I feel like we are running the weave such that it wastes time and doesn’t produce anything. I wish they would develop the the plays so that it created something
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 14,952
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Post by EtomicB on Jan 13, 2024 18:13:12 GMT -5
I was watching St. John’s vs. Creighton. St. John’s weave was producing different opportunities. Many times I feel like we are running the weave such that it wastes time and doesn’t produce anything. I wish they would develop the the plays so that it created something St. John's has Soriano plus several players who can make plays on their own, the weave for Gtown is a time waster in my view
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hoya59er
Century (over 100 posts)
Posts: 170
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Post by hoya59er on Jan 13, 2024 18:14:32 GMT -5
Yes, our weave too often seems to eat too much time and does not create shots
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hoyazeke
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,818
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Post by hoyazeke on Jan 14, 2024 9:40:40 GMT -5
If you dribble too much or are too ball dominant then your teammates lose interest cause they aren’t getting touches. That is always on the point guard or QB of the offense so to speak Agree. Also must consider when running motion and screen to keep dribbling until there is a place to go with the ball. The Hoyas now running double screens to get Epps, Styles, Heath (doesn't finish running through them), and Rowan open. Heath picks up the ball early when on ball (Heath on ball isn't a great option) and Epps and Rowan will keep the dribble going, which is that they should be doing. This is the same offense Marquette, Providence, Villanova, and Butler would run against Ewing Hoyas and end up with wide open 3s. The key is two things: 1) keep dribbling until a player opens (always run this with two players running the loop; 2) run the loops quickly while in the cycle until the ball is to one of the two or the PG calls it off (Heath gives up after one cycle, Ish when he was in it never finished one loop, Styles stall, and Epps and Rowan run it well but not that quickly). They will get there. Professor I disagree with players losing interest because of having a ball dominant PG. If the PG is looking for his own shot I agree but if the PG is looking to drop dimes on his teammates they will continue to move. A PG like CP3 is very ball dominant but he only hunts his own shot when his team is in a rut. Rowan is definitely not a gunner.
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 14, 2024 10:42:35 GMT -5
Agree. Also must consider when running motion and screen to keep dribbling until there is a place to go with the ball. The Hoyas now running double screens to get Epps, Styles, Heath (doesn't finish running through them), and Rowan open. Heath picks up the ball early when on ball (Heath on ball isn't a great option) and Epps and Rowan will keep the dribble going, which is that they should be doing. This is the same offense Marquette, Providence, Villanova, and Butler would run against Ewing Hoyas and end up with wide open 3s. The key is two things: 1) keep dribbling until a player opens (always run this with two players running the loop; 2) run the loops quickly while in the cycle until the ball is to one of the two or the PG calls it off (Heath gives up after one cycle, Ish when he was in it never finished one loop, Styles stall, and Epps and Rowan run it well but not that quickly). They will get there. Professor I disagree with players losing interest because of having a ball dominant PG. If the PG is looking for his own shot I agree but if the PG is looking to drop dimes on his teammates they will continue to move. A PG like CP3 is very ball dominant but he only hunts his own shot when his team is in a rut. Rowan is definitely not a gunner. There is a limit to how much you should dribble. You should not be dribbling 10-15 seconds. You should be able to pass before that. You don’t have to make the perfect pass or thread the needle. Epps has cut back on his overdribbling the last 3 games. The most dribbles he is taking is 7. So I believe this is a point of emphasis from Cooley.
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