traversb
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Post by traversb on Jan 11, 2024 12:14:54 GMT -5
Don’t act like fouling was an obvious mistake. Not even close. Down 3 with 37.8 seconds I foul and extend the game every time. Best case by playing that out you gave the ball under your own basket down 3 with 5 seconds left. There are arguments both ways but it was not a coaching mistake to foul and extend the game. I know you and Coach Esh don’t agree. Actually, your best case scenario is incorrect. There was about a 7 second differential on the shot clock. A few things: (1) Seton Hall does not handle the ball well and had been turning it over all night. If you defend there, there's a chance Seton Hall throws the ball out of bounds, bobbles it, and then we have 20+ seconds to work for a three. By fouling, we automatically put ourselves at a 4-5 deficit, especially since we fouled a 93% free throw shooter. (2) Teams in this situation almost never let the clock run down to 0 because of the risk of a shot clock violation. Odds are that Seton Hall would have taken the shot with 10-ish seconds (and maybe even more time) left. They are also a very bad three point shooting team. So, good odds we can get the ball back and have a chance to tie with a three. What you are ignoring is that when you're down three and foul, you turn it from a 1 possession game to a 2 possession game, at which point you're essentially relying on luck to win. Sure, you "extend" the game, but you extend a game under cirucmstances you're likely to lose. The stats bear this out; fouling in that situation is not the easy call you think it is. Seton Hall would've just held it until 5 seconds on the clock and then maybe you are right they turn it over, but if a shot gets up the game is all but over. Nobody is mentioning they had a foul to give which would've helped them bleed the game away. Fouling Dawes was bad but fouling was the right call. If Cooley is at fault for anything, and maybe he told them and they didn't listen, it's that Dawes got the 2 fouls when anyone else would've been better.
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traversb
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Post by traversb on Jan 11, 2024 12:18:15 GMT -5
I agree that Cooley can make us better next year and I’m hopeful that he can turn us around. But, can he take us to the top of the BE? I’m concerned with the approach. What worked for him before might not work now. I don’t agree with the first part of your post. Mike Anderson’s last year was a disaster and ended worse than how we parted ways with Pat. If anything, Cooley has more leeway at GU than in any other Power 5 basketball program. There’s nothing like GU job security, which eliminates any sense of urgency (i.e., lose your job). Cooley has a nose for what types of transfers to go after. Carter & Hopkins are great examples. Guys that are really good, probably not pros (certainly not draft picks) so they will stick for a few years, and have already transferred once so they know the grass isn't always greener. That required an evolution of thinking on Cooley's part. A guy like Dug McDaniel could be an interesting option. There are always going to be plenty of DMV guys that might be looking for a year or two on the hilltop to wrap up their careers. You add that with high school recruiting & development of the right type of kid and you have something. I don't think Pat ever figured out what type of kid he wanted. He just took the best scorers he could get and those didn't always fit together. he also was always behind it with most of the roster transferring every year. The cynic in us all has been well developed these past six years. We expect everybody to leave, we expect no roster & skill development, and we expect to be disappointed. Life is good, we will be fine, chins up! I've seen Dug's name throw around a bit by Hoyas fans and he is obviously a talented player but a bad person to have in the backcourt with Epps. Both are terrible defenders and there is only 1 ball. They would be fun to watch for the offense but I have a feeling we would fall short of expectations with that backcourt. Would raise the floor of the team considerably though.
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traversb
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Post by traversb on Jan 11, 2024 12:22:52 GMT -5
Cooley's problem in the transfer portal next year will be the same as this year. Talented kids with one year of eligibility left are almost certain not to want to come to a team that will again finish at the bottom end of the BE. While there could be an exception for someone who wants to come home to the DMV, it seems foolish to think that Cooley will be in play for the one and done types that might make a difference. Also complicating this will be the arrival of a talented group of freshmen meaning that PT will not necessarily be guaranteed. Unless the Hoyas show some real growth over the next 6 weeks (and I actually see some positive signs) Cooley is going to have to be at his best in recruiting the portal. THIS THIS THIS. If we have two transfer spots they both will need to be top level talents to help this team make a huge jump. I could see a good PG coming and not being scared by Rowan but does Cooley change course and take a one year guy thinking next year is the year? Other than that where are the minutes going to come from that would entice the type a player we need? You can't really risk losing Fielder or Sorber or even Mulready by severely limiting their minutes next year since they could both easily transfer.
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daveg023
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Post by daveg023 on Jan 11, 2024 12:45:17 GMT -5
Cooley's problem in the transfer portal next year will be the same as this year. Talented kids with one year of eligibility left are almost certain not to want to come to a team that will again finish at the bottom end of the BE. While there could be an exception for someone who wants to come home to the DMV, it seems foolish to think that Cooley will be in play for the one and done types that might make a difference. Also complicating this will be the arrival of a talented group of freshmen meaning that PT will not necessarily be guaranteed. Unless the Hoyas show some real growth over the next 6 weeks (and I actually see some positive signs) Cooley is going to have to be at his best in recruiting the portal. THIS THIS THIS. If we have two transfer spots they both will need to be top level talents to help this team make a huge jump. I could see a good PG coming and not being scared by Rowan but does Cooley change course and take a one year guy thinking next year is the year? Other than that where are the minutes going to come from that would entice the type a player we need? You can't really risk losing Fielder or Sorber or even Mulready by severely limiting their minutes next year since they could both easily transfer. I don’t entirely disagree with this but the counterpoint is Butler. They were coming off a pretty tough year under Marta’s first season back, and they got several impact transfers that have them in the conversation for a bid this year. If they can pull that off there, there’s no reason to believe we couldn’t at a minimum be like them next year.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 11, 2024 13:31:30 GMT -5
What I don’t understand is why you don’t want to compare both coaches, etc… Obviously, what’s done is done, but it’s fair to compare both situations while wishing for the best. For one, what's done is done. I'm not sure how it is productive when we can't see much of the internal machinations, and the situations aren't nearly as comparable. We also can't see the long term outcome of either rebuild. That said, if someone wanted to compare Pitino's approach in concrete terms to Cooley's in a measured way, I doubt it would be poorly received. But snarky tweets or comments isn't that. That's an attempt at an "I told you so." It's okay to pine for Pitino, but I don't think that should color views of Cooley. It's only a zero sum game if your goal is say "I told you so" or be right. Both hires can be successes.
But it's clear from many posts and tweets that the comparison is the goal for many people, not evaluating Cooley. I am looking at Cooley and trying to figure out if he can resurrect the program, and do so in a manner that is sustainable. Whether Pitino succeeds at St. John's is a comparison, but success there doesn't invalidate if Cooley succeeds. Because that's not our choice now. I think criticism of our transfer window is valid. I don't see why it needs to be repeated after every game. I especially don't see how every St. John's result is particularly valid, nor do I think it's overly valid when we see our team is clearly improving. I'm not sure how people don't see the Seton Hall game as a step forward. There's a lot of projection here. (EDIT: I don't mean psychological; I mean in the predictive sense) For one, I don't know why everything that occurs now portends long term doom. I don't know what we are seeing right now that portends that this team is doomed to be terrible forever. Take away the specific result, and look at what caused the result. What do you think is unlikely to improve? 1. I know the transfers are a disappointment for you. What fundamentally do think is a repeatable mistake for certain? Do you really think Cooley will approach every year not having more scholarship players? What at Providence makes you think at? Do you think he is bad at scouting or at transfers -- again, his Providence track record actually seems good there. He's a natural saleman. The big question on Cooley revolves around his ceiling as a recruiter at Georgetown for me. But I'm not overly worried about someone who came in in March, apparently didn't see a lot he liked or could get it, and basically wanted to save cash and spots for next year. My question here is honest: what do you think, either carrying over from this year or otherwise, concerns you about this going forward? Is it scouting/evaluation? Recruiting? Ability to navigate the new world? Georgetown's ability to attract/NLI money? 2. Xs and Os. What's your specific concern here? I've never thought of Cooley as a specifically brilliant tactical mind -- in fact, I've been more impressed by him this year than I expected to be when we run plays, on OOBs, and despite this last game, most of our end of games. I'm not overly sold on the defense, but we're simply not talented enough to really know. 3. Motivation and coaching. Provvy's teams have always played hard, and he seems like a heckuva motivator. If Jay Heath has never gotten it and doesn't get it here, that is a failure for Cooley, but I don't know if Heath gets it anyway. I don't know about the rest -- I never watched enough Providence to see if shooters improved or if people's footwork did, etc. That's a big part of coaching that I have a giant question mark. 4. Retention. Something that has plagued us since the end of the JTIII era, and really even back to the end of the JTII era. I don't think this team succeeds in the new era by playing big money transfer games and having players come in and out. I don't think we have the money, the cachet, or the academic standards to play with the big boys on that. We need development and continuity. Again, I don't know that anything Cooley did previously translates. This is a concern for me -- we have a great freshman class coming in and actually a very small, decent core here that combined could become something over the next two years. There's plenty of question marks and everyone would like to come out flying. But there's also some pretty good reasons for not, and while there are question marks carrying over to next year for certain, I've yet to see something that makes me think Cooley can't do it. The biggest thing is not entirely on Cooley -- I'm concerned about NLI and retention at a school like ours, with a recent track record like ours.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 11, 2024 13:36:13 GMT -5
it seems foolish to think that Cooley will be in play for the one and done types that might make a difference. We won't likely get the Hunter Dickinsons of the world, no. But for this team, you don't need to nearly be that good to be a difference maker. Show some improvement, add the freshman, and I think you can make a strong pitch for a couple of the pieces we need at a step down in talent level.
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traversb
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Post by traversb on Jan 11, 2024 13:36:47 GMT -5
THIS THIS THIS. If we have two transfer spots they both will need to be top level talents to help this team make a huge jump. I could see a good PG coming and not being scared by Rowan but does Cooley change course and take a one year guy thinking next year is the year? Other than that where are the minutes going to come from that would entice the type a player we need? You can't really risk losing Fielder or Sorber or even Mulready by severely limiting their minutes next year since they could both easily transfer. I don’t entirely disagree with this but the counterpoint is Butler. They were coming off a pretty tough year under Marta’s first season back, and they got several impact transfers that have them in the conversation for a bid this year. If they can pull that off there, there’s no reason to believe we couldn’t at a minimum be like them next year. Butler only brought 1 guy back and he was their 6th leading scorer. We are going to be bringing back 4 starters, who many believe to be our core, along with a highly recruited player who is slotted in to be the 5th. If you are telling me Cooley is going to break up that core and try again I would say next year may be a huge turnaround, but we know that is not happening. As is, it looks like a better team but not huge jump type better we all want unless we get two real impact players. I assume another spot or two will open up for next year and he won't have to be as perfect on transfers but it's still a tough sell unless the NIL bag is overflowing and he is willing to overspend.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 11, 2024 13:45:53 GMT -5
I think part of the issue is that Pitino is Pitino and that's an extremely hard thing to replicate. The guy is easily a top 5 coach of the last 40 years, maybe top 3. Of course, this is why many of us wanted him at Georgetown! But, my point is that is not something that is easy to replicate. I truly think much of the success St. John's is having is because Pitino is just an outstanding coach. Did Pitino assemble a better roster than Cooley? Absolutely. But, I would not call it a fantastic roster either. But Pitino is getting the most out of it, as he always does. This is my point. I'm not anti-Pitino. Pitino is great and there was little doubt in my mind that he'd be out of the gate faster than Cooley. The question will be if he retires in a few years with decent progress but nothing special, is that enough momentum for St. John's or do they go right back down. But either way, that discussion is not particularly relevant to "Can/Will Cooley succeed" here. If the only way for Georgetown basketball to revive itself is to get a Rick Pitino, we were f*ed anyway, because at some point, Pitino leaves. It's not even super valid to constantly go back to it every day half a season in when the goal isn't just short term success. But regardless, Pitino succeeding does not mean Cooley fails. I only care about Georgetown here, and that's my point: the Pitino talk is about people proving themselves right, not evaluating Cooley. And because that's become more important to someone like Casual, obviously, they will also paint everything Cooley does in a poorer light than he deserves. Because it's a basic psychological reality that a lot of people would like to be able to be proven right than pretty much anything else. We all know that emotional pull.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Jan 11, 2024 13:48:46 GMT -5
THIS THIS THIS. If we have two transfer spots they both will need to be top level talents to help this team make a huge jump. I could see a good PG coming and not being scared by Rowan but does Cooley change course and take a one year guy thinking next year is the year? Other than that where are the minutes going to come from that would entice the type a player we need? You can't really risk losing Fielder or Sorber or even Mulready by severely limiting their minutes next year since they could both easily transfer. I don’t entirely disagree with this but the counterpoint is Butler. They were coming off a pretty tough year under Marta’s first season back, and they got several impact transfers that have them in the conversation for a bid this year. If they can pull that off there, there’s no reason to believe we couldn’t at a minimum be like them next year. Butler had a lot of space & time to fill unlike Gtown for next season Bigs - Cook(R), Sorber, Fielder(R) & Mutumbo Wings - Styles(R), McKenna, Williams & Bristol(R) Guards - Epps(R), Brumbaugh(R) & Mulready R = Rotation Player Each category has 2 rotation kids who could be back next season. It will be a tough sell to recruits(especially if the season stays the course) or a tougher sell to the kids taking a backseat next season.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Jan 11, 2024 14:01:14 GMT -5
THIS THIS THIS. If we have two transfer spots they both will need to be top level talents to help this team make a huge jump. I don't know what you mean by top level talents, but I disagree with this. I think we probably overestimate the college-readiness of the freshman class -- if nothing else, freshman don't play defense. But I expect us to continue to improve as we have been, even if it doesn't show up as much as we'd like in results. If we can retain players and add the freshmen, then I think there's a good chance that that team is already better through cohesion, coaching, improvement, and increased depth and athleticism. A year in the weight room for Fielder, adding Sorber, plus Cook with a bit more time suddenly changes our big man calculus quite a bit. McKenna will have a head start in the weight room and coaching, and while he's not a "big" his size will be a benefit defensively and on the boards. Normally, relying on two freshmen would be problematic, but they are replacing who? Massoud and Ryan? Fielder alone with an extra year will be improved but the added depth plus Sorber really seeming like a potential impact freshman changes the equation even before a transfer. Likewise, while not everyone improves, and while Heath does bring some shooting ... we will be better from improvement from Styles, Epps and Rowan. No, none are getting that sophomore leap, but these are still college kids who can improve. We've seen Rowan already improve and Epps and Styles' improvement is both more mental. Now add in Mulready -- okay, I doubt he shoots as well as Heath, and freshmen can't defend. But neither can Heath! At least he has size and athleticism. And while I know less about Williams and the feeling seems to be that he might be less day one ready, he's still better depth than Bacote. The only guy I think we'll miss that is definitely leaving is Bristol -- the freshman will make more mistakes. Do I need to add two monster talents to that to make a major step forward from this year? I don't think so, because the players I'm replacing have set a very low bar so far. A point guard would be good, especially if we can get one that can shoot. Our team is not as good shooting as we hoped this year, but if Rowan and/or a transfer don't step up, next year could be Epps and no one else. And perhaps, depending on Sorber's ability, a big man or actually a shooting wing. I think a LOT of our issues this year come down to a lack of depth, and I don't mean size of rotation. We can't bench Massoud because there's literally no one there. We only have two remotely consistently good players, plus whatever bucket you put Cook in. But Rowan and Fielder will join that group next year, I think, and if we add 2 of the freshman, add a transfer or two, that gets us to 8-9 guys we actually don't cringe at. Even if we don't end up with a bigger star than Epps -- and I know you dislike Epps but with a few small improvements, Epps absolutely becomes a Big East star -- we go from the bottom to actually being a real team. Year after that, with a great freshman class developing and still a few of our guys from this year on board and who knows?
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Jan 11, 2024 14:11:40 GMT -5
I don’t entirely disagree with this but the counterpoint is Butler. They were coming off a pretty tough year under Marta’s first season back, and they got several impact transfers that have them in the conversation for a bid this year. If they can pull that off there, there’s no reason to believe we couldn’t at a minimum be like them next year. Butler had a lot of space & time to fill unlike Gtown for next season Bigs - Cook(R), Sorber, Fielder(R) & Mutumbo Wings - Styles(R), McKenna, Williams & Bristol(R) Guards - Epps(R), Brumbaugh(R) & Mulready R = Rotation Player Each category has 2 rotation kids who could be back next season. It will be a tough sell to recruits(especially if the season stays the course) or a tougher sell to the kids taking a backseat next season. Obviously the above assumes that everybody that can come back next year, does come back next year. I think that's a bad assumption in today's college basketball landscape. There are at least 2 guys on that list who purportedly will have received their undergraduate degree. Plus, this year's ruling on 2nd time transfers basically makes extinct the idea that when you bring in a guy that has already transferred once, he's unlikely to transfer again. Long story short, I believe Cooley & Co. will be able to sell playing time opportunities to portal candidates looking for big NIL money.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Jan 11, 2024 14:29:55 GMT -5
For one, what's done is done. I'm not sure how it is productive when we can't see much of the internal machinations, and the situations aren't nearly as comparable. We also can't see the long term outcome of either rebuild. That said, if someone wanted to compare Pitino's approach in concrete terms to Cooley's in a measured way, I doubt it would be poorly received. But snarky tweets or comments isn't that. That's an attempt at an "I told you so." It's okay to pine for Pitino, but I don't think that should color views of Cooley. It's only a zero sum game if your goal is say "I told you so" or be right. Both hires can be successes.
But it's clear from many posts and tweets that the comparison is the goal for many people, not evaluating Cooley. I am looking at Cooley and trying to figure out if he can resurrect the program, and do so in a manner that is sustainable. Whether Pitino succeeds at St. John's is a comparison, but success there doesn't invalidate if Cooley succeeds. Because that's not our choice now. I think criticism of our transfer window is valid. I don't see why it needs to be repeated after every game. I especially don't see how every St. John's result is particularly valid, nor do I think it's overly valid when we see our team is clearly improving. I'm not sure how people don't see the Seton Hall game as a step forward. There's a lot of projection here. For one, I don't know why everything that occurs now portends long term doom. I don't know what we are seeing right now that portends that this team is doomed to be terrible forever. Take away the specific result, and look at what caused the result. What do you think is unlikely to improve? 1. I know the transfers are a disappointment for you. What fundamentally do think is a repeatable mistake for certain? Do you really think Cooley will approach every year not having more scholarship players? What at Providence makes you think at? Do you think he is bad at scouting or at transfers -- again, his Providence track record actually seems good there. He's a natural saleman. The big question on Cooley revolves around his ceiling as a recruiter at Georgetown for me. But I'm not overly worried about someone who came in in March, apparently didn't see a lot he liked or could get it, and basically wanted to save cash and spots for next year. My question here is honest: what do you think, either carrying over from this year or otherwise, concerns you about this going forward? Is it scouting/evaluation? Recruiting? Ability to navigate the new world? Georgetown's ability to attract/NLI money? 2. Xs and Os. What's your specific concern here? I've never thought of Cooley as a specifically brilliant tactical mind -- in fact, I've been more impressed by him this year than I expected to be when we run plays, on OOBs, and despite this last game, most of our end of games. I'm not overly sold on the defense, but we're simply not talented enough to really know. 3. Motivation and coaching. Provvy's teams have always played hard, and he seems like a heckuva motivator. If Jay Heath has never gotten it and doesn't get it here, that is a failure for Cooley, but I don't know if Heath gets it anyway. I don't know about the rest -- I never watched enough Providence to see if shooters improved or if people's footwork did, etc. That's a big part of coaching that I have a giant question mark. 4. Retention. Something that has plagued us since the end of the JTIII era, and really even back to the end of the JTII era. I don't think this team succeeds in the new era by playing big money transfer games and having players come in and out. I don't think we have the money, the cachet, or the academic standards to play with the big boys on that. We need development and continuity. Again, I don't know that anything Cooley did previously translates. This is a concern for me -- we have a great freshman class coming in and actually a very small, decent core here that combined could become something over the next two years. There's plenty of question marks and everyone would like to come out flying. But there's also some pretty good reasons for not, and while there are question marks carrying over to next year for certain, I've yet to see something that makes me think Cooley can't do it. The biggest thing is not entirely on Cooley -- I'm concerned about NLI and retention at a school like ours, with a recent track record like ours. SF, long post to read and answer now. As I said, I need to get the Cooley quote. In tbe meantime, and to make it easier to read, can you correct your HT quoting on your post above?
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Jan 11, 2024 14:38:04 GMT -5
I don’t entirely disagree with this but the counterpoint is Butler. They were coming off a pretty tough year under Marta’s first season back, and they got several impact transfers that have them in the conversation for a bid this year. If they can pull that off there, there’s no reason to believe we couldn’t at a minimum be like them next year. Butler only brought 1 guy back and he was their 6th leading scorer. We are going to be bringing back 4 starters, who many believe to be our core, along with a highly recruited player who is slotted in to be the 5th. If you are telling me Cooley is going to break up that core and try again I would say next year may be a huge turnaround, but we know that is not happening. As is, it looks like a better team but not huge jump type better we all want unless we get two real impact players. I assume another spot or two will open up for next year and he won't have to be as perfect on transfers but it's still a tough sell unless the NIL bag is overflowing and he is willing to overspend. How much would a potent 5 help this team? If Sorber is ready to contribute, it will help TREMENDOUSLY on the offensive and defensive side of the ball (i.e. rim protection, rebounding, high percentage scoring, etc.).
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traversb
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Post by traversb on Jan 11, 2024 14:54:53 GMT -5
THIS THIS THIS. If we have two transfer spots they both will need to be top level talents to help this team make a huge jump. I don't know what you mean by top level talents, but I disagree with this. I think we probably overestimate the college-readiness of the freshman class -- if nothing else, freshman don't play defense. But I expect us to continue to improve as we have been, even if it doesn't show up as much as we'd like in results. If we can retain players and add the freshmen, then I think there's a good chance that that team is already better through cohesion, coaching, improvement, and increased depth and athleticism. A year in the weight room for Fielder, adding Sorber, plus Cook with a bit more time suddenly changes our big man calculus quite a bit. McKenna will have a head start in the weight room and coaching, and while he's not a "big" his size will be a benefit defensively and on the boards. Normally, relying on two freshmen would be problematic, but they are replacing who? Massoud and Ryan? Fielder alone with an extra year will be improved but the added depth plus Sorber really seeming like a potential impact freshman changes the equation even before a transfer. Likewise, while not everyone improves, and while Heath does bring some shooting ... we will be better from improvement from Styles, Epps and Rowan. No, none are getting that sophomore leap, but these are still college kids who can improve. We've seen Rowan already improve and Epps and Styles' improvement is both more mental. Now add in Mulready -- okay, I doubt he shoots as well as Heath, and freshmen can't defend. But neither can Heath! At least he has size and athleticism. And while I know less about Williams and the feeling seems to be that he might be less day one ready, he's still better depth than Bacote. The only guy I think we'll miss that is definitely leaving is Bristol -- the freshman will make more mistakes. Do I need to add two monster talents to that to make a major step forward from this year? I don't think so, because the players I'm replacing have set a very low bar so far. A point guard would be good, especially if we can get one that can shoot. Our team is not as good shooting as we hoped this year, but if Rowan and/or a transfer don't step up, next year could be Epps and no one else. And perhaps, depending on Sorber's ability, a big man or actually a shooting wing. I think a LOT of our issues this year come down to a lack of depth, and I don't mean size of rotation. We can't bench Massoud because there's literally no one there. We only have two remotely consistently good players, plus whatever bucket you put Cook in. But Rowan and Fielder will join that group next year, I think, and if we add 2 of the freshman, add a transfer or two, that gets us to 8-9 guys we actually don't cringe at. Even if we don't end up with a bigger star than Epps -- and I know you dislike Epps but with a few small improvements, Epps absolutely becomes a Big East star -- we go from the bottom to actually being a real team. Year after that, with a great freshman class developing and still a few of our guys from this year on board and who knows? I think there will be improvement but you don't go from KenPom 185 and 277th defensively without bringing in impact players. Most of the guys outside of Fielder have been in college at least two years. They will get better but I don't see a huge transformation. Our biggest problem is none of Rowan, Epps or Styles can play both offense and defense currently. They seem to be one dimensional at best. We need 2 of the 3 to become good 2 way players for us to make a huge jump and I just don't see it. I don't think you and I will ever see eye to eye on how bad defensively Epps and Styles are because you don't trust the numbers. If the starting 1-3 defense doesn't drastically improve I don't think much else matters. Not being able to stay in front of guys is a death knell in basketball. Doest getting better rim protection help? Sure, but our ceiling is just so limited. I don't think just replacing our current backups with better backups gets us to where we need to be. If we are happy topping out at a mid-tier Big East team in the nex few years then fine, but I hope we didn't bring in Cooley with the expectations of being a double-digit type NCAA team every couple years. We do currently have a perfectly good backup (who should be starting) for Massoud in Fielder. My biggest hope from this season so far has been what Fielder can become. He is the current best mix of O/D potential of the young new guys and he's the only true freshman of the bunch. I don't know understand Cooley is doing as far as his time. He gives us the best chance to win and he's the future. It seems like in this lost season the goal would be to get him as much experience as possible. It's as if he doesn't want to admit his mistake on Massoud or maybe he is worried if he benches him other transfers will take notice and be turned off.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Jan 11, 2024 14:58:56 GMT -5
Butler had a lot of space & time to fill unlike Gtown for next season Bigs - Cook(R), Sorber, Fielder(R) & Mutumbo Wings - Styles(R), McKenna, Williams & Bristol(R) Guards - Epps(R), Brumbaugh(R) & Mulready R = Rotation Player Each category has 2 rotation kids who could be back next season. It will be a tough sell to recruits(especially if the season stays the course) or a tougher sell to the kids taking a backseat next season. Obviously the above assumes that everybody that can come back next year, does come back next year. I think that's a bad assumption in today's college basketball landscape. There are at least 2 guys on that list who purportedly will have received their undergraduate degree. Plus, this year's ruling on 2nd time transfers basically makes extinct the idea that when you bring in a guy that has already transferred once, he's unlikely to transfer again. Long story short, I believe Cooley & Co. will be able to sell playing time opportunities to portal candidates looking for big NIL money. There's only one player on the rotation player list who's an upperclassman and also eligible to get an undergrad degree from Gtown this year. Sure anybody can leave but that just means that we have no idea who'll be back which makes it harder to establish a core & culture in my view. I'm going to assume the players who transferred into the program this season will still be committed to helping Gtown reestablish itself after this season as well.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Jan 11, 2024 15:10:50 GMT -5
Obviously the above assumes that everybody that can come back next year, does come back next year. I think that's a bad assumption in today's college basketball landscape. There are at least 2 guys on that list who purportedly will have received their undergraduate degree. Plus, this year's ruling on 2nd time transfers basically makes extinct the idea that when you bring in a guy that has already transferred once, he's unlikely to transfer again. Long story short, I believe Cooley & Co. will be able to sell playing time opportunities to portal candidates looking for big NIL money. There's only one player on the rotation player list who's an upperclassman and also eligible to get an undergrad degree from Gtown this year.
Sure anybody can leave but that just means that we have no idea who'll be back which makes it harder to establish a core & culture in my view. I'm going to assume the players who transferred into the program this season will still be committed to helping Gtown reestablish itself after this season as well. OK, maybe I shouldn't have said "undergraduate" degree. I expect at least two players that you list in your original post will get a Georgetown degree this spring and will not return in 2024-2025.
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traversb
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Post by traversb on Jan 11, 2024 15:15:03 GMT -5
Butler only brought 1 guy back and he was their 6th leading scorer. We are going to be bringing back 4 starters, who many believe to be our core, along with a highly recruited player who is slotted in to be the 5th. If you are telling me Cooley is going to break up that core and try again I would say next year may be a huge turnaround, but we know that is not happening. As is, it looks like a better team but not huge jump type better we all want unless we get two real impact players. I assume another spot or two will open up for next year and he won't have to be as perfect on transfers but it's still a tough sell unless the NIL bag is overflowing and he is willing to overspend. How much would a potent 5 help this team? If Sorber is ready to contribute, it will help TREMENDOUSLY on the offensive and defensive side of the ball (i.e. rim protection, rebounding, high percentage scoring, etc.). Sorber is really good and Cooley should be lauded for getting him. I think we need to pump the brakes on him completely transforming this team as a freshman. I know it's easy to be hopeful and think he's the freshman Patrick Ewing but he's more likely to be Jessie Govan and that is perfectly fine.
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daveg023
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by daveg023 on Jan 11, 2024 15:56:45 GMT -5
Obviously the above assumes that everybody that can come back next year, does come back next year. I think that's a bad assumption in today's college basketball landscape. There are at least 2 guys on that list who purportedly will have received their undergraduate degree. Plus, this year's ruling on 2nd time transfers basically makes extinct the idea that when you bring in a guy that has already transferred once, he's unlikely to transfer again. Long story short, I believe Cooley & Co. will be able to sell playing time opportunities to portal candidates looking for big NIL money. There's only one player on the rotation player list who's an upperclassman and also eligible to get an undergrad degree from Gtown this year. Sure anybody can leave but that just means that we have no idea who'll be back which makes it harder to establish a core & culture in my view. I'm going to assume the players who transferred into the program this season will still be committed to helping Gtown reestablish itself after this season as well. I don’t think Cook or Brumbaugh’s spots are assured. Not saying they are going to leave, but I wouldn’t say the minutes they are getting this year are locks. Both are playing more minutes than they should given our current talent level and depth. I don’t see any potential impact transfer worrying about being behind either, especially if the NIL $ is right.
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Jan 11, 2024 16:22:55 GMT -5
it seems foolish to think that Cooley will be in play for the one and done types that might make a difference. We won't likely get the Hunter Dickinsons of the world, no. But for this team, you don't need to nearly be that good to be a difference maker. Show some improvement, add the freshman, and I think you can make a strong pitch for a couple of the pieces we need at a step down in talent level. I think that this is the key. The results and the product on the floor need to be noticeably better in 6 weeks than now for Cooley to have something to point to when recruiting. I may be deluding myself, but take away a horrible first 10 minutes and the final 3 minutes of the Seton Hall game and I believe you have signs of improvement. Also it would help if Cooley continues to ride the rotations that seem to work best. Massoud to the bench for use as a sparkplug when needed. Play Rowan or Heath, whichever is more in the flow of the game and taking care of the ball. Fielder taking more minutes in the post. Find a way to get Styles back into the offense. The major disappointment to me on offense which I do not believe is going to be lost on recruits, is the lack of consistent ball movement. The team comes down a few times each half and executes well an offensive set or makes quick decisions in moving the ball through the air to find an open shooter and then for no apparent reason it stops and we are back to ball dominant guards dribbling aimlessly while other players stand glued to a spot. The result is often a bad, closely guarded shot from deep with no one in position for the rebound.
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 11, 2024 16:32:35 GMT -5
We won't likely get the Hunter Dickinsons of the world, no. But for this team, you don't need to nearly be that good to be a difference maker. Show some improvement, add the freshman, and I think you can make a strong pitch for a couple of the pieces we need at a step down in talent level. I think that this is the key. The results and the product on the floor need to be noticeably better in 6 weeks than now for Cooley to have something to point to when recruiting. I may be deluding myself, but take away a horrible first 10 minutes and the final 3 minutes of the Seton Hall game and I believe you have signs of improvement. Also it would help if Cooley continues to ride the rotations that seem to work best. Massoud to the bench for use as a sparkplug when needed. Play Rowan or Heath, whichever is more in the flow of the game and taking care of the ball. Fielder taking more minutes in the post. Find a way to get Styles back into the offense. The major disappointment to me on offense which I do not believe is going to be lost on recruits, is the lack of consistent ball movement. The team comes down a few times each half and executes well an offensive set or makes quick decisions in moving the ball through the air to find an open shooter and then for no apparent reason it stops and we are back to ball dominant guards dribbling aimlessly while other players stand glued to a spot. The result is often a bad, closely guarded shot from deep with no one in position for the rebound. That was Likely one of the reasons Rowan was benched in the Seton Hall game. He was back to taking 10-12 dribbles without passing the ball. Nobody else on the Hoyas was taking that many dribbles in the Seton Hall game.
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