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Post by bornhoya on Apr 23, 2024 10:47:25 GMT -5
Serious question, at the risk of sounding like an idiot . . . Why is it possible for guys from different AAU teams to coexist on the same HS team, but such an obstacle to getting them to the same college team? It’s not he’s trying to make it something that it’s not
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hoyaboya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,366
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Post by hoyaboya on Apr 23, 2024 10:50:50 GMT -5
Serious question, at the risk of sounding like an idiot . . . Why is it possible for guys from different AAU teams to coexist on the same HS team, but such an obstacle to getting them to the same college team? Team Takeover and Team Durant have a longstanding rivalry among DC-area AAU teams. AAU coaches get a "cut" when they send players to certain schools. The better the player, the bigger the cut for the AAU coaches. So there's a huge battle among AAU coaches to secure the best players on their AAU team and with DC players, the best most often go to either Takeover or Durant. It's all about the Benajmins, baby...
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saxagael
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,898
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Post by saxagael on Apr 23, 2024 12:36:37 GMT -5
Serious question, at the risk of sounding like an idiot . . . Why is it possible for guys from different AAU teams to coexist on the same HS team, but such an obstacle to getting them to the same college team? It shouldn't ever be an issue. If it is an issue, the recruiter that makes it an issue needs to be tossed out as fast as possible. As a recruiter you never limit your options, or shouldn't. The shoe sponsors also make sure their players aren't ignored, particularly if the university and travel teams have the same shoe sponsor.
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saxagael
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,898
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Post by saxagael on Apr 23, 2024 12:49:45 GMT -5
Serious question, at the risk of sounding like an idiot . . . Why is it possible for guys from different AAU teams to coexist on the same HS team, but such an obstacle to getting them to the same college team? Team Takeover and Team Durant have a longstanding rivalry among DC-area AAU teams. AAU coaches get a "cut" when they send players to certain schools. The better the player, the bigger the cut for the AAU coaches. So there's a huge battle among AAU coaches to secure the best players on their AAU team and with DC players, the best most often go to either Takeover or Durant. It's all about the Benajmins, baby... Nike is behind both travel teams and if a recruiter at a university who is part of the the same shoe brand family decides to ignore one travel team they pretty much poisoned themselves. There is a bit of a rivalry between TTO and Team Durant, but it is rather minor. Nike has a lot more invested in Team Durant and its players because it is tied to one of their player ambassadors, it has a connection to a sub-brand of Nike, and many of the coaches are have Nike connections beyond TD. The recruiting reach of TD is far wider than TTO and Nike helps with that. You are right it is about the money and Nike money is far more strongly behind TD than TTO and snubbing Team Durant (which has the better players) is not a smart move. Being open to both is the smart move, as well as an even wider field.
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hoyaboya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,366
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Post by hoyaboya on Apr 23, 2024 12:53:47 GMT -5
Team Takeover and Team Durant have a longstanding rivalry among DC-area AAU teams. AAU coaches get a "cut" when they send players to certain schools. The better the player, the bigger the cut for the AAU coaches. So there's a huge battle among AAU coaches to secure the best players on their AAU team and with DC players, the best most often go to either Takeover or Durant. It's all about the Benajmins, baby... Nike is behind both travel teams and if a recruiter at a university who is part of the the same shoe brand family decides to ignore one travel team they pretty much poisoned themselves. There is a bit of a rivalry between TTO and Team Durant, but it is rather minor. Nike has a lot more invested in Team Durant and its players because it is tied to one of their player ambassadors, it has a connection to a sub-brand of Nike, and many of the coaches are have Nike connections beyond TD. The recruiting reach of TD is far wider than TTO and Nike helps with that. You are right it is about the money and Nike money is far more strongly behind TD than TTO and snubbing Team Durant (which has the better players) is not a smart move. Being open to both is the smart move, as well as an even wider field. I highly doubt our new assistant coach or broader coaching staff will be "snubbing" Team Durant. Of course our guys will treat the Team Durant guys well and that door will be open for us. I just would not expect the Team Durant guys to send kids to Georgetown, which if they did, it would benefit a Team Takeover guy. I do think Team Durant will use Georgetown to drive up the asking price for their kids, but I'd be surprised if we actually get very many Team Durant players.
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wolveribe
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 358
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Post by wolveribe on Apr 23, 2024 13:53:23 GMT -5
This is a non issue. Everyone plays the same game nowadays and most kids play with several teams. We played TTO a couple weeks back, they have a very strong pipeline coming, FWIW.
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saxagael
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,898
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Post by saxagael on Apr 23, 2024 14:14:29 GMT -5
Nike is behind both travel teams and if a recruiter at a university who is part of the the same shoe brand family decides to ignore one travel team they pretty much poisoned themselves. There is a bit of a rivalry between TTO and Team Durant, but it is rather minor. Nike has a lot more invested in Team Durant and its players because it is tied to one of their player ambassadors, it has a connection to a sub-brand of Nike, and many of the coaches are have Nike connections beyond TD. The recruiting reach of TD is far wider than TTO and Nike helps with that. You are right it is about the money and Nike money is far more strongly behind TD than TTO and snubbing Team Durant (which has the better players) is not a smart move. Being open to both is the smart move, as well as an even wider field. I highly doubt our new assistant coach or broader coaching staff will be "snubbing" Team Durant. Of course our guys will treat the Team Durant guys well and that door will be open for us. I just would not expect the Team Durant guys to send kids to Georgetown, which if they did, it would benefit a Team Takeover guy. I do think Team Durant will use Georgetown to drive up the asking price for their kids, but I'd be surprised if we actually get very many Team Durant players. Team Durant is happy to help another Nike school. KJ has been gone from TTO for quite a while now. If you are around travel team recruiting events the Nike reps are easily found around Team Durant much of the time and the last few years not as much around TTO (this is non-EYBL tournaments). Team Durant isn't that petty, TTO used to be (Nike had some long talks with them over the years), and Durant is always looking to get their players placed on the best fit for the players and one teams the player has strong interest in. The way that Team Durant works to help players is why they have the top players wanting to play for them from DMV and beyond.
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hoyaguy
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,852
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Post by hoyaguy on Apr 23, 2024 14:59:19 GMT -5
I thought part of why it took so long to confirm our new assistant was to make sure the DMV AAU connections were not blindsided or ruffle any feathers?
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jwp91
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,009
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Post by jwp91 on Apr 23, 2024 15:49:06 GMT -5
Serious question, at the risk of sounding like an idiot . . . Why is it possible for guys from different AAU teams to coexist on the same HS team, but such an obstacle to getting them to the same college team? I think those handlers who are seeking to profit from a recruit in the future are concerned that someone else will steer the recruit to a different agent. This is more a concern in college since players are closer to monetiztion. You may recall that 30 years ago all Hoyas seemed to end up with David Falk as their agent...
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RBHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,132
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Post by RBHoya on Apr 23, 2024 16:41:31 GMT -5
Serious question, at the risk of sounding like an idiot . . . Why is it possible for guys from different AAU teams to coexist on the same HS team, but such an obstacle to getting them to the same college team? It's usually around the agent selection process, and sometimes the shoe companies come into play. AAU guys make a lot of their money off of funneling guys that came through their program to a certain agent. It's a "finders fee". Agents make a lot of money if they are able to land players who sign lucrative pro contracts, so to try to become the agent for clients that have a lot of potential, the agents make deals with the AAU coaches/programs. Player signs a big NBA contract, his agent gets a nice piece of that money, and then the agent kicks back some of that to the AAU coach that told that player to sign with him. This is one of the biggest ways AAU programs/coaches make their money. There's a lot of time and cost that goes into running an AAU program, and this is the payoff for them in many cases. For that reason, AAU coaches are very protective of their guys and want to make sure nobody interferes with their ability to funnel one of their players to their agent of choice because it jeopardizes their money. Good Georgetown example of this was when Jeff Green blew up. Jeff had played with DC Assault AAU, and their head coach was Curtis Malone. SUPPOSEDLY, the Thompsons told Malone/DCA that if Jeff came to Georgetown they would not interfere in his agent selection process. However when the time came, coincidentally(!) Jeff ends up signing with Thompson friend/agent David Falk instead of DCA's chosen agent, Joel Bell. The DCA people will tell you that JT2 took the finders fee and cut out Malone/DCA, and they were livid. They never really guided anyone to Georgetown again after that (the program eventually collapsed and Malone went to jail, but that's besides the point). Flash forward to "modern times". Team Takeover is founded by Keith Stevens, and Kenny Johnson was (in the early days) Keith's righthand man. They become the best AAU program in the area. In 2020, Stevens decides to get into the agent game. The play here is obvious--Stevens hands off day-to-day management of the AAU stuff to others in the organization and the expectation is that when good TTO players are ready to go pro, they will sign with his agency. The whole goal of the TTO enterprise is to find good young players who will be future pros, get them into the TTO AAU program, funnel them to a college that will help them get drafted while not interfering with the agent selection process, and then sign them as clients. For AAU guys, this is their livelihood. So putting Kenny Johnson on staff is great for that purpose. It's not just getting a job for one of Keith's buddies, but it's about being able to send players to Georgetown and knowing that Kenny is going to keep them closely connected to TTO and that they will not be steered to any agent other than whomever Keith chooses. If you're Team Durant though (or any other powerful AAU program), you DON'T want to send players to Georgetown for that very same reason. If I send a player to Georgetown I run the risk that that player develops a closer relationship with Kenny Johnson than I have with him, and that Kenny spends the duration of that players college tenure whispering in his ear about signing with Keith's agency. Given that I need that player to sign with MY agent in order to make any money, that's not a chance I'm willing to take. So I will do everything I can to steer my guys AWAY from that situation, and instead guide them to a school that's going to be more evenhanded and stay out of the agent selection process altogether. So that's the risk of the KJ signing. It's great for landing TTO guys, but it potentially alienates other big AAU programs. The thing is though... it doesn't always follow an exact formula. It is totally possible for a player to play for an AAU program and not be CONTROLLED BY that program. It's situational, it depends on the player and his life situation. I remember a case like Vernon Macklin, where Vern was coming from a pretty difficult background and family situation and he was actually LIVING with his AAU coach, Boo Williams, during the period when he was being recruited. In a situation like that, yes, Vern was going to be going wherever Boo told him to go (and given that this was pre-DCA fallout and Boo's sister was the coach of our women's team at that time, Georgetown seemed like a good fit!). But there are plenty of other examples of players who make their own college/agent decision without letting their AAU coach/organization really sway them at all. It's not like if a player suits up for Team Durant that he signs some contract that says that Team Durant leadership gets to choose his college. Some kids are more persuadable than others. I think a lot of times when a player has parents that are very involved, it's the player and his parents who are calling the shot. And I think that's probably the case with Acaden Lewis. So if they feel like Cooley/Georgetown is the best situation for them, they're going to commit. In some cases AAU guys are very powerful, in other cases they have very little influence. To answer the original question, high school coaches usually don't have involvement in agent selection, so AAU guys are not worried about a high school coach encroaching on their territory or their money. But if they get to college and there's someone else trying to sway the player to sign with a different agent--whether that's a Thompson trying to funnel guys to David Falk or a Kenny Johnson trying to funnel guys to Keith Stevens--that's going to make them feel very threatened, so they will try to avoid it to the extent that they can.
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vv83
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,326
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Post by vv83 on Apr 23, 2024 18:50:05 GMT -5
Serious question, at the risk of sounding like an idiot . . . Why is it possible for guys from different AAU teams to coexist on the same HS team, but such an obstacle to getting them to the same college team? It's usually around the agent selection process, and sometimes the shoe companies come into play. AAU guys make a lot of their money off of funneling guys that came through their program to a certain agent. It's a "finders fee". Agents make a lot of money if they are able to land players who sign lucrative pro contracts, so to try to become the agent for clients that have a lot of potential, the agents make deals with the AAU coaches/programs. Player signs a big NBA contract, his agent gets a nice piece of that money, and then the agent kicks back some of that to the AAU coach that told that player to sign with him. This is one of the biggest ways AAU programs/coaches make their money. There's a lot of time and cost that goes into running an AAU program, and this is the payoff for them in many cases. For that reason, AAU coaches are very protective of their guys and want to make sure nobody interferes with their ability to funnel one of their players to their agent of choice because it jeopardizes their money. Good Georgetown example of this was when Jeff Green blew up. Jeff had played with DC Assault AAU, and their head coach was Curtis Malone. SUPPOSEDLY, the Thompsons told Malone/DCA that if Jeff came to Georgetown they would not interfere in his agent selection process. However when the time came, coincidentally(!) Jeff ends up signing with Thompson friend/agent David Falk instead of DCA's chosen agent, Joel Bell. The DCA people will tell you that JT2 took the finders fee and cut out Malone/DCA, and they were livid. They never really guided anyone to Georgetown again after that (the program eventually collapsed and Malone went to jail, but that's besides the point). Flash forward to "modern times". Team Takeover is founded by Keith Stevens, and Kenny Johnson was (in the early days) Keith's righthand man. They become the best AAU program in the area. In 2020, Stevens decides to get into the agent game. The play here is obvious--Stevens hands off day-to-day management of the AAU stuff to others in the organization and the expectation is that when good TTO players are ready to go pro, they will sign with his agency. The whole goal of the TTO enterprise is to find good young players who will be future pros, get them into the TTO AAU program, funnel them to a college that will help them get drafted while not interfering with the agent selection process, and then sign them as clients. For AAU guys, this is their livelihood. So putting Kenny Johnson on staff is great for that purpose. It's not just getting a job for one of Keith's buddies, but it's about being able to send players to Georgetown and knowing that Kenny is going to keep them closely connected to TTO and that they will not be steered to any agent other than whomever Keith chooses. If you're Team Durant though (or any other powerful AAU program), you DON'T want to send players to Georgetown for that very same reason. If I send a player to Georgetown I run the risk that that player develops a closer relationship with Kenny Johnson than I have with him, and that Kenny spends the duration of that players college tenure whispering in his ear about signing with Keith's agency. Given that I need that player to sign with MY agent in order to make any money, that's not a chance I'm willing to take. So I will do everything I can to steer my guys AWAY from that situation, and instead guide them to a school that's going to be more evenhanded and stay out of the agent selection process altogether. So that's the risk of the KJ signing. It's great for landing TTO guys, but it potentially alienates other big AAU programs. The thing is though... it doesn't always follow an exact formula. It is totally possible for a player to play for an AAU program and not be CONTROLLED BY that program. It's situational, it depends on the player and his life situation. I remember a case like Vernon Macklin, where Vern was coming from a pretty difficult background and family situation and he was actually LIVING with his AAU coach, Boo Williams, during the period when he was being recruited. In a situation like that, yes, Vern was going to be going wherever Boo told him to go (and given that this was pre-DCA fallout and Boo's sister was the coach of our women's team at that time, Georgetown seemed like a good fit!). But there are plenty of other examples of players who make their own college/agent decision without letting their AAU coach/organization really sway them at all. It's not like if a player suits up for Team Durant that he signs some contract that says that Team Durant leadership gets to choose his college. Some kids are more persuadable than others. I think a lot of times when a player has parents that are very involved, it's the player and his parents who are calling the shot. And I think that's probably the case with Acaden Lewis. So if they feel like Cooley/Georgetown is the best situation for them, they're going to commit. In some cases AAU guys are very powerful, in other cases they have very little influence. To answer the original question, high school coaches usually don't have involvement in agent selection, so AAU guys are not worried about a high school coach encroaching on their territory or their money. But if they get to college and there's someone else trying to sway the player to sign with a different agent--whether that's a Thompson trying to funnel guys to David Falk or a Kenny Johnson trying to funnel guys to Keith Stevens--that's going to make them feel very threatened, so they will try to avoid it to the extent that they can. Thanks for laying this all out. I feel like I have always understood bits and pieces of this whole situation, but without a full grasp of it. Your explanation is extremely clear and super helpful in understanding this interaction of AAU coach/college choice/agent choice in relation to the recruiting process With the current "half the players transfer at some point"/NIL culture - this whole web of relationships has to be even more complex.
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hoyaboya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,366
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Post by hoyaboya on Apr 23, 2024 19:52:03 GMT -5
Serious question, at the risk of sounding like an idiot . . . Why is it possible for guys from different AAU teams to coexist on the same HS team, but such an obstacle to getting them to the same college team? It's usually around the agent selection process, and sometimes the shoe companies come into play. AAU guys make a lot of their money off of funneling guys that came through their program to a certain agent. It's a "finders fee". Agents make a lot of money if they are able to land players who sign lucrative pro contracts, so to try to become the agent for clients that have a lot of potential, the agents make deals with the AAU coaches/programs. Player signs a big NBA contract, his agent gets a nice piece of that money, and then the agent kicks back some of that to the AAU coach that told that player to sign with him. This is one of the biggest ways AAU programs/coaches make their money. There's a lot of time and cost that goes into running an AAU program, and this is the payoff for them in many cases. For that reason, AAU coaches are very protective of their guys and want to make sure nobody interferes with their ability to funnel one of their players to their agent of choice because it jeopardizes their money. Good Georgetown example of this was when Jeff Green blew up. Jeff had played with DC Assault AAU, and their head coach was Curtis Malone. SUPPOSEDLY, the Thompsons told Malone/DCA that if Jeff came to Georgetown they would not interfere in his agent selection process. However when the time came, coincidentally(!) Jeff ends up signing with Thompson friend/agent David Falk instead of DCA's chosen agent, Joel Bell. The DCA people will tell you that JT2 took the finders fee and cut out Malone/DCA, and they were livid. They never really guided anyone to Georgetown again after that (the program eventually collapsed and Malone went to jail, but that's besides the point). Flash forward to "modern times". Team Takeover is founded by Keith Stevens, and Kenny Johnson was (in the early days) Keith's righthand man. They become the best AAU program in the area. In 2020, Stevens decides to get into the agent game. The play here is obvious--Stevens hands off day-to-day management of the AAU stuff to others in the organization and the expectation is that when good TTO players are ready to go pro, they will sign with his agency. The whole goal of the TTO enterprise is to find good young players who will be future pros, get them into the TTO AAU program, funnel them to a college that will help them get drafted while not interfering with the agent selection process, and then sign them as clients. For AAU guys, this is their livelihood. So putting Kenny Johnson on staff is great for that purpose. It's not just getting a job for one of Keith's buddies, but it's about being able to send players to Georgetown and knowing that Kenny is going to keep them closely connected to TTO and that they will not be steered to any agent other than whomever Keith chooses. If you're Team Durant though (or any other powerful AAU program), you DON'T want to send players to Georgetown for that very same reason. If I send a player to Georgetown I run the risk that that player develops a closer relationship with Kenny Johnson than I have with him, and that Kenny spends the duration of that players college tenure whispering in his ear about signing with Keith's agency. Given that I need that player to sign with MY agent in order to make any money, that's not a chance I'm willing to take. So I will do everything I can to steer my guys AWAY from that situation, and instead guide them to a school that's going to be more evenhanded and stay out of the agent selection process altogether. So that's the risk of the KJ signing. It's great for landing TTO guys, but it potentially alienates other big AAU programs. The thing is though... it doesn't always follow an exact formula. It is totally possible for a player to play for an AAU program and not be CONTROLLED BY that program. It's situational, it depends on the player and his life situation. I remember a case like Vernon Macklin, where Vern was coming from a pretty difficult background and family situation and he was actually LIVING with his AAU coach, Boo Williams, during the period when he was being recruited. In a situation like that, yes, Vern was going to be going wherever Boo told him to go (and given that this was pre-DCA fallout and Boo's sister was the coach of our women's team at that time, Georgetown seemed like a good fit!). But there are plenty of other examples of players who make their own college/agent decision without letting their AAU coach/organization really sway them at all. It's not like if a player suits up for Team Durant that he signs some contract that says that Team Durant leadership gets to choose his college. Some kids are more persuadable than others. I think a lot of times when a player has parents that are very involved, it's the player and his parents who are calling the shot. And I think that's probably the case with Acaden Lewis. So if they feel like Cooley/Georgetown is the best situation for them, they're going to commit. In some cases AAU guys are very powerful, in other cases they have very little influence. To answer the original question, high school coaches usually don't have involvement in agent selection, so AAU guys are not worried about a high school coach encroaching on their territory or their money. But if they get to college and there's someone else trying to sway the player to sign with a different agent--whether that's a Thompson trying to funnel guys to David Falk or a Kenny Johnson trying to funnel guys to Keith Stevens--that's going to make them feel very threatened, so they will try to avoid it to the extent that they can. Strong nominee for post of the year. Thank you, RBHoya.
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Post by bornhoya on Apr 24, 2024 12:11:41 GMT -5
Serious question, at the risk of sounding like an idiot . . . Why is it possible for guys from different AAU teams to coexist on the same HS team, but such an obstacle to getting them to the same college team? It's usually around the agent selection process, and sometimes the shoe companies come into play. AAU guys make a lot of their money off of funneling guys that came through their program to a certain agent. It's a "finders fee". Agents make a lot of money if they are able to land players who sign lucrative pro contracts, so to try to become the agent for clients that have a lot of potential, the agents make deals with the AAU coaches/programs. Player signs a big NBA contract, his agent gets a nice piece of that money, and then the agent kicks back some of that to the AAU coach that told that player to sign with him. This is one of the biggest ways AAU programs/coaches make their money. There's a lot of time and cost that goes into running an AAU program, and this is the payoff for them in many cases. For that reason, AAU coaches are very protective of their guys and want to make sure nobody interferes with their ability to funnel one of their players to their agent of choice because it jeopardizes their money. Good Georgetown example of this was when Jeff Green blew up. Jeff had played with DC Assault AAU, and their head coach was Curtis Malone. SUPPOSEDLY, the Thompsons told Malone/DCA that if Jeff came to Georgetown they would not interfere in his agent selection process. However when the time came, coincidentally(!) Jeff ends up signing with Thompson friend/agent David Falk instead of DCA's chosen agent, Joel Bell. The DCA people will tell you that JT2 took the finders fee and cut out Malone/DCA, and they were livid. They never really guided anyone to Georgetown again after that (the program eventually collapsed and Malone went to jail, but that's besides the point). Flash forward to "modern times". Team Takeover is founded by Keith Stevens, and Kenny Johnson was (in the early days) Keith's righthand man. They become the best AAU program in the area. In 2020, Stevens decides to get into the agent game. The play here is obvious--Stevens hands off day-to-day management of the AAU stuff to others in the organization and the expectation is that when good TTO players are ready to go pro, they will sign with his agency. The whole goal of the TTO enterprise is to find good young players who will be future pros, get them into the TTO AAU program, funnel them to a college that will help them get drafted while not interfering with the agent selection process, and then sign them as clients. For AAU guys, this is their livelihood. So putting Kenny Johnson on staff is great for that purpose. It's not just getting a job for one of Keith's buddies, but it's about being able to send players to Georgetown and knowing that Kenny is going to keep them closely connected to TTO and that they will not be steered to any agent other than whomever Keith chooses. If you're Team Durant though (or any other powerful AAU program), you DON'T want to send players to Georgetown for that very same reason. If I send a player to Georgetown I run the risk that that player develops a closer relationship with Kenny Johnson than I have with him, and that Kenny spends the duration of that players college tenure whispering in his ear about signing with Keith's agency. Given that I need that player to sign with MY agent in order to make any money, that's not a chance I'm willing to take. So I will do everything I can to steer my guys AWAY from that situation, and instead guide them to a school that's going to be more evenhanded and stay out of the agent selection process altogether. So that's the risk of the KJ signing. It's great for landing TTO guys, but it potentially alienates other big AAU programs. The thing is though... it doesn't always follow an exact formula. It is totally possible for a player to play for an AAU program and not be CONTROLLED BY that program. It's situational, it depends on the player and his life situation. I remember a case like Vernon Macklin, where Vern was coming from a pretty difficult background and family situation and he was actually LIVING with his AAU coach, Boo Williams, during the period when he was being recruited. In a situation like that, yes, Vern was going to be going wherever Boo told him to go (and given that this was pre-DCA fallout and Boo's sister was the coach of our women's team at that time, Georgetown seemed like a good fit!). But there are plenty of other examples of players who make their own college/agent decision without letting their AAU coach/organization really sway them at all. It's not like if a player suits up for Team Durant that he signs some contract that says that Team Durant leadership gets to choose his college. Some kids are more persuadable than others. I think a lot of times when a player has parents that are very involved, it's the player and his parents who are calling the shot. And I think that's probably the case with Acaden Lewis. So if they feel like Cooley/Georgetown is the best situation for them, they're going to commit. In some cases AAU guys are very powerful, in other cases they have very little influence. To answer the original question, high school coaches usually don't have involvement in agent selection, so AAU guys are not worried about a high school coach encroaching on their territory or their money. But if they get to college and there's someone else trying to sway the player to sign with a different agent--whether that's a Thompson trying to funnel guys to David Falk or a Kenny Johnson trying to funnel guys to Keith Stevens--that's going to make them feel very threatened, so they will try to avoid it to the extent that they can. Parents are way more involved now then they used to be and with teams popping up it’s getting harder to keep the top talent on one team
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hoyaboya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,366
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Post by hoyaboya on Apr 24, 2024 12:50:36 GMT -5
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saxagael
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,898
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Post by saxagael on Apr 24, 2024 15:09:18 GMT -5
So the Virginia visit went well? The "here is a ball go dribble it over there in the corner for 20 seconds and then do something" and then, "wow, you have learned are offense" demonstration worked wonders?
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Post by Problem of Dog on Apr 24, 2024 17:46:21 GMT -5
Serious question, at the risk of sounding like an idiot . . . Why is it possible for guys from different AAU teams to coexist on the same HS team, but such an obstacle to getting them to the same college team? It's usually around the agent selection process, and sometimes the shoe companies come into play. AAU guys make a lot of their money off of funneling guys that came through their program to a certain agent. It's a "finders fee". Agents make a lot of money if they are able to land players who sign lucrative pro contracts, so to try to become the agent for clients that have a lot of potential, the agents make deals with the AAU coaches/programs. Player signs a big NBA contract, his agent gets a nice piece of that money, and then the agent kicks back some of that to the AAU coach that told that player to sign with him. This is one of the biggest ways AAU programs/coaches make their money. There's a lot of time and cost that goes into running an AAU program, and this is the payoff for them in many cases. For that reason, AAU coaches are very protective of their guys and want to make sure nobody interferes with their ability to funnel one of their players to their agent of choice because it jeopardizes their money. Good Georgetown example of this was when Jeff Green blew up. Jeff had played with DC Assault AAU, and their head coach was Curtis Malone. SUPPOSEDLY, the Thompsons told Malone/DCA that if Jeff came to Georgetown they would not interfere in his agent selection process. However when the time came, coincidentally(!) Jeff ends up signing with Thompson friend/agent David Falk instead of DCA's chosen agent, Joel Bell. The DCA people will tell you that JT2 took the finders fee and cut out Malone/DCA, and they were livid. They never really guided anyone to Georgetown again after that (the program eventually collapsed and Malone went to jail, but that's besides the point). Flash forward to "modern times". Team Takeover is founded by Keith Stevens, and Kenny Johnson was (in the early days) Keith's righthand man. They become the best AAU program in the area. In 2020, Stevens decides to get into the agent game. The play here is obvious--Stevens hands off day-to-day management of the AAU stuff to others in the organization and the expectation is that when good TTO players are ready to go pro, they will sign with his agency. The whole goal of the TTO enterprise is to find good young players who will be future pros, get them into the TTO AAU program, funnel them to a college that will help them get drafted while not interfering with the agent selection process, and then sign them as clients. For AAU guys, this is their livelihood. So putting Kenny Johnson on staff is great for that purpose. It's not just getting a job for one of Keith's buddies, but it's about being able to send players to Georgetown and knowing that Kenny is going to keep them closely connected to TTO and that they will not be steered to any agent other than whomever Keith chooses. If you're Team Durant though (or any other powerful AAU program), you DON'T want to send players to Georgetown for that very same reason. If I send a player to Georgetown I run the risk that that player develops a closer relationship with Kenny Johnson than I have with him, and that Kenny spends the duration of that players college tenure whispering in his ear about signing with Keith's agency. Given that I need that player to sign with MY agent in order to make any money, that's not a chance I'm willing to take. So I will do everything I can to steer my guys AWAY from that situation, and instead guide them to a school that's going to be more evenhanded and stay out of the agent selection process altogether. So that's the risk of the KJ signing. It's great for landing TTO guys, but it potentially alienates other big AAU programs. The thing is though... it doesn't always follow an exact formula. It is totally possible for a player to play for an AAU program and not be CONTROLLED BY that program. It's situational, it depends on the player and his life situation. I remember a case like Vernon Macklin, where Vern was coming from a pretty difficult background and family situation and he was actually LIVING with his AAU coach, Boo Williams, during the period when he was being recruited. In a situation like that, yes, Vern was going to be going wherever Boo told him to go (and given that this was pre-DCA fallout and Boo's sister was the coach of our women's team at that time, Georgetown seemed like a good fit!). But there are plenty of other examples of players who make their own college/agent decision without letting their AAU coach/organization really sway them at all. It's not like if a player suits up for Team Durant that he signs some contract that says that Team Durant leadership gets to choose his college. Some kids are more persuadable than others. I think a lot of times when a player has parents that are very involved, it's the player and his parents who are calling the shot. And I think that's probably the case with Acaden Lewis. So if they feel like Cooley/Georgetown is the best situation for them, they're going to commit. In some cases AAU guys are very powerful, in other cases they have very little influence. To answer the original question, high school coaches usually don't have involvement in agent selection, so AAU guys are not worried about a high school coach encroaching on their territory or their money. But if they get to college and there's someone else trying to sway the player to sign with a different agent--whether that's a Thompson trying to funnel guys to David Falk or a Kenny Johnson trying to funnel guys to Keith Stevens--that's going to make them feel very threatened, so they will try to avoid it to the extent that they can. First of all, excellent post and filled with a lot of (accurate) info that people on this board don't know. Secondly, because Team Durant and TTO are both Nike orgs, things are a little different than DC Assault/DC Blue Devils/Various Nike HS. For instance, Lewis' HS coach is with Team Durant, but his best player, Caleb Williams, is a TTO guy that ended up at Georgetown (and would've otherwise ended up at Nova). It's a lot less cut and dry these days, including with agents (Keith should never "rep" any player ever, but then again, Joel Bell was "qualified" and wasn't much better).
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wolveribe
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Post by wolveribe on Apr 24, 2024 20:30:27 GMT -5
And Caleb is a great recruiter for both Durant and TTO
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Apr 27, 2024 19:32:25 GMT -5
Just watched Team Durant play here in Memphis. This kid is tough. Will be very good at the next player and is a Cooley type guard.
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saxagael
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Post by saxagael on Apr 29, 2024 12:59:44 GMT -5
Just watched Team Durant play here in Memphis. This kid is tough. Will be very good at the next player and is a Cooley type guard. I have a feeling I may be at quite a few Sidwell games this next year as he is a blast to watch. Watching him in the DC semi-final against Gonzaga he really stood out.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Apr 30, 2024 8:30:04 GMT -5
“I have been there a couple of times already because I have really built a great relationship with the coaches there,” he explained, “but it was really good to see a day in the life of a student there. I was able to hang out with some of the players which was fun and it just gave me a different look at UVa which is always good.” One of the main takeaways Lewis had from conversations with the staff during the visit was that they are looking to change their offense in order to score more points. “They mentioned many times that they are willing to change,” Lewis explained. “They know they have not had the best success in the tournament the past few years so they know they have to change some stuff to get more points. They mentioned to me about letting their offensive players become a little more free.” The Virginia staff also talked about how Lewis fits perfectly for them on both sides of the ball. “They think I have a lot of defensive potential and they believe that I have improved a lot on that side of the ball so that was obviously good to hear because of how much they put an emphasis on defense,” he said. “They mentioned that they could really see me fitting in well because of my creativity and success I have off ball screens. “They also talked about how I could be used either on or off the ball,” Lewis added. “They also mentioned about how they like how hard I play, especially on the defensive side of the ball.” virginia.rivals.com/news/four-star-guard-lewis-talks-uva-official-visit-fit-with-the-wahoos
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