2023-24 Roster

[hoyaboya]

"Jayden Epps, from Illinois: Starter. Potential lead guard. Epps’ freshman season had some bumpy spots, but overall, there were some major bright spots. Epps has a chance to be a flat-out star at Georgetown. The 6-foot-2, 190-pound point guard has an ingrained scoring gene. Epps shot over 60% on layups. In the Big Ten. As a freshman. On an Illinois team that had very little shooting. That's remarkable.

Epps has to find some consistency from 3-point range and strike a better balance as a true playmaker, but he’s a talented young guard who should be a multi-year starter for Ed Cooley. Epps might not touch the All-Big East team this year but that's certainly in play in the years to come.

Supreme Cook, from Fairfield: Potential starter, frontcourt rotation. Cook was one of the MAAC’s best big men. The 6-foot-9, 220-pound forward averaged 0.924 points per possession on post-ups. He torched Xavier for 19 points and added a 13-point showing against Wake Forest which are promising showings against high-major competition. Cook is a little undersized to play the 5 in the Big East, but he makes up for it with relentless effort on the glass. At minimum, Cook will be a winning role player for the Hoyas.

Dontrez Styles, from North Carolina: Wing rotation, potential starter. Styles never really got an in-game chance to showcase his game at North Carolina. The 6-foot-6, 210-pound wing will get an opportunity for real minutes right away for Cooley. Styles can be an impact defender and rebounder right away, but his offense could still take a little time to fully gel.

Rowan Brumbaugh, from Texas: Backcourt rotation. Cooley is stockpiling all the point guards he can. While Epps is more of a microwave scorer, Brumbaugh profiles as the traditional, pass-first point guard. There’s a path for Brumbaugh and Epps to earn playing time together, and Georgetown hopes the young, Year 2 guards can be pillars of the future.

Ismael Massoud, from Kansas State: Likely starter, frontcourt rotation. Massoud was phenomenal in his role for a Kansas State team that nearly advanced to the Final Four. Massoud played just 15 minutes per game, but he shot the cover off the ball. The 6-foot-9, 225-pound forward drilled 41% of his 91 3-point attempts last season. Georgetown can hand him way more than just 15 minutes per game, and Massoud wants to showcase more of his polished offensive skillset. He's a good bet to start at the 4."

247sports.com/longformarticle/big-east-basketball-transfer-portal-rick-pitino-st-johns-kyle-neptune-villanova-seton-hall-creighton-xavier-depaul-georgetown-providence-butler-214123448/#2214098

[SFHoya99]

Akok was a good shotblocker and a theoretical floor stretcher. I think under Cooley, he could have been a pretty good piece.

But that said, he wasn't a real rim protector -- blocked shots, but no one was scared of him. He had no bulk, disappeared for whole games at a time, and his shot always looked better than it was.

I'd rather he be on the team, but we've got like 12 pages of discussion about whether Mutombo or Fielder has bulk which all seems kind of pointless when Akok didn't have that either.

Cook is going to start at C, most likely. And he can fight. Mutombo and others will fill in. It's not going to be a strength, but I think we're going to have bigger issues than that. Lots of college teams work around a weak center or a stretch 5, etc.

[trillesthoya]

Aug 15, 2023 15:18:55 GMT -5 SFHoya99 said:

Akok was a good shotblocker and a theoretical floor stretcher. I think under Cooley, he could have been a pretty good piece.

But that said, he wasn't a real rim protector -- blocked shots, but no one was scared of him. He had no bulk, disappeared for whole games at a time, and his shot always looked better than it was.

I'd rather he be on the team, but we've got like 12 pages of discussion about whether Mutombo or Fielder has bulk which all seems kind of pointless when Akok didn't have that either.

Cook is going to start at C, most likely. And he can fight. Mutombo and others will fill in. It's not going to be a strength, but I think we're going to have bigger issues than that. Lots of college teams work around a weak center or a stretch 5, etc.

We won’t have bigger problems (pun not intended) than our rotation at big man. We’ll be fine on the wings and in the backcourt, but our front court will be the thing teams aim to exploit each game given the lack of depth. They’ll either aim to get Cook in foul trouble or run a true big man who Cook will inevitably struggle with due to his limited size. Cook is a quality addition to the team for sure, but there’s no question he will be on the lower end of starting big east C’s and Massoud plays on the perimeter so we’re really going to struggle on the boards unless the wings and guards step up. 

[traversb]

Aug 12, 2023 17:16:55 GMT -5 thedragon said:

Moving on:

PG: Epps (20) Brumbaugh (20)
SG: Heath (28) Epps (12)
SF Styles (25) Bristol (15)
PF: Massoud (25) Fielder (15)
C: Cook (25) Mutombo (10) Fielder (5)

If this is the breakdown of minutes I will either be shocked. I think people are going to look back 1 year from now and laugh at the thoughts of him being a good PG. I mentioned a while back that if this team was going to succeed then Rowan would have to be the PG. I've seen enough of both in HS and Epps in college to know who was likely better. I just didn't want to jump the gun before seeing Rowan play again since he took the year off. It's abundantly clear, at least to me, he is by far the best PG on this team. In fact if you just replace Primo and Ewing with Rowan and Cooley last year is a tournament team. The wheels were completely off the last few years under Ewing but there was plenty of talent there. Last year's team outside of Primo was much better than this years now that Akok is gone. The team above is just not very good. It's mostly Big East backup level players that will be asked to be starters. Everyone is going to Cooley a pass but at this point let's just hope the team is good enough to keep the great recruiting class coming in.

As for Fielder he is going to be a great college player. It just won't be this year. He should not be subjected to minutes at the 5 this year. It could kill his confidence or even worse get him injured. A frontcourt of Massoud and Cook could get real ugly. I would be shocked if Ryan only plays 10 minutes. I think him and Cook should rotate starts depending on the opponent. This team desperately needs a real 4 to walk through the door before the season starts. 

This happens every offseason but the transfers are being way too overrated. I just Cooley plays the best guys and not the new guys like Ewing often did to the detriment of the team. 

[hoyasaxa2003]

Because there seems to be controversy over Mourning's freshman weight, here are a few things I found:

Mourning, Senior in High School:

- November 19, 1987, The Miami Herald: "'All you can look at is where a person is right now and project,' said assistant coach Dave Odom of Virginia, another finalist in the Mourning sweepstakes. 'Alonzo, right now, is a little further along than Ewing. He is quick off his feet, he plays with great heart and he is the kind of person people want on their team. He isn't as big as Ewing, but there's no question that he will be a terrific college player.' Ewing is 7-1, 260 pounds; Mourning is 6-10, 220 pounds."

- April 17, 1998, Associated Press: "Mourning, the 6-10, 230-pound center from Chesapeake, Va., who will attend Georgetown, hit a pair of late second half dunks as the East held off a West rally."

- May 20, 1988, Chicago Tribune: "He is attempting to accomplish what no one before him has managed, yet he approaches his task with the alacrity of one about to perform in a pickup game on the playground. His name is Alonzo Mourning, and he is 6-foot-10 and 230 pounds, and he is now an object of attention who could well become the first high schooler to make a United States Olympic basketball team."

- May 22, 1988, The San Diego Union-Tribune: "Manning is playing as well here as he did in leading -- no, carrying -- the Jayhawks to the NCAA title. Every notable big man at the Division I level is throwing his body around the three courts at the Olympic Sports Center . . . None, however, is the subject of as much speculation as 6-10, 230-pound Alonzo Mourning."

Mourning, Freshman at Georgetown:

- November 18, 1988, The Post-Standard (Syracuse, NY): "Georgetown signed Mourning, a 6-10, 235-pounder from Virginia and the consensus No. 1 high school player in the nation last year, and Milton Bell, a 6-6 forward from Richmond, Va. The Hoyas also beefed up their frontcourt with the addition of sophomore transfer John Turner, a 6-7, 235-pound forward."

- November 20, 1988, Newsday, "In describing Mourning's 235 pounds of well-placed mass, Williams said, 'half of it belongs to God; the other half belongs to Bill Lassiter.'"

- March 15, 1989, UPI, "Georgetown has dominated with center Dikembe Mutombo, a 7-foot-2, 235-pound center from Zaire, and Alonzo Mourning, a 6-10, 240-pound forward who was the Big East Defensive Player of the Year."

There are many others from Mourning's freshman year where he is listed as 230, 235, or 240. The 235 number seems the most frequently used, so I am guessing that's what Georgetown officially listed him at. I did not see any below 230, other than the one from when he was in high school (the first one above). These are from a private database, so I cannot link to the full articles.

Much of this is really beside the point anyway for purposes of our roster this year. Fielder does not need to be as big as Mourning was to be effective. Not as many teams have super-big centers or forwards anymore. It's a different world. Obviously, in an ideal world, with all things equal, you want bigger guys than smaller ones, but skilled big men are more important than hulking ones without skill.

[Bigs"R"Us]

After watching Hunter Dickinson and Akok Akok play out. I can truly say that we have no certainty as to who will be on next year’s roster. Every player has a price.

[dense]

People suggesting Fielder playing center will get him injured or that all these BiG East teams have these enormous centers who will kill him is like people aren't watching modern basketball. No one thought Wilson was gonna die lol. Difference here is they would have to guard him all over the court on the other end.

[TC]

Aug 16, 2023 5:42:43 GMT -5 Bigs"R"Us said:

After watching Hunter Dickinson and Akok Akok play out. I can truly say that we have no certainty as to who will be on next year’s roster. Every player has a price.

How many two time transfers have landed a waiver?

[hoyaboya]

Aug 16, 2023 5:42:43 GMT -5 Bigs"R"Us said:

After watching Hunter Dickinson and Akok Akok play out. I can truly say that we have no certainty as to who will be on next year’s roster. Every player has a price.

The particularly scary thing is that the coaching staff doesn't seem to have much of an idea on these things, either:

"In casual conversations with alumni and donors off-stage and at other JCW events, Ed Cooley is continuing to express a lot of confidence about the roster the team will have next season. He doesn’t seem worried about what awaits if Hunter Dickinson passes on Georgetown. We’ll see what happens."

hilltophoops.substack.com/p/john-carroll-weekend-georgetown-cooley

[thedragon]

While Hoyaboya continues to clutter threads with the same innane BS (even having him on block hasent helped much - as its just threads of "This Post is hidden"), here is a solid thread that should hopefully help put to bed what Epps' main position is. Those that keep saying hes not a lead guard/point guard then have not seen him play. And those that think Rowan is going to start over him at PG just arent based in reality in my opinion.

Hes the best player with the highest ceiling on the current roster.

[hoya9797]

Aug 15, 2023 23:14:33 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

Because there seems to be controversy over Mourning's freshman weight, here are a few things I found:

Mourning, Senior in High School:

- November 19, 1987, The Miami Herald: "'All you can look at is where a person is right now and project,' said assistant coach Dave Odom of Virginia, another finalist in the Mourning sweepstakes. 'Alonzo, right now, is a little further along than Ewing. He is quick off his feet, he plays with great heart and he is the kind of person people want on their team. He isn't as big as Ewing, but there's no question that he will be a terrific college player.' Ewing is 7-1, 260 pounds; Mourning is 6-10, 220 pounds."

- April 17, 1998, Associated Press: "Mourning, the 6-10, 230-pound center from Chesapeake, Va., who will attend Georgetown, hit a pair of late second half dunks as the East held off a West rally."

- May 20, 1988, Chicago Tribune: "He is attempting to accomplish what no one before him has managed, yet he approaches his task with the alacrity of one about to perform in a pickup game on the playground. His name is Alonzo Mourning, and he is 6-foot-10 and 230 pounds, and he is now an object of attention who could well become the first high schooler to make a United States Olympic basketball team."

- May 22, 1988, The San Diego Union-Tribune: "Manning is playing as well here as he did in leading -- no, carrying -- the Jayhawks to the NCAA title. Every notable big man at the Division I level is throwing his body around the three courts at the Olympic Sports Center . . . None, however, is the subject of as much speculation as 6-10, 230-pound Alonzo Mourning."

Mourning, Freshman at Georgetown:

- November 18, 1988, The Post-Standard (Syracuse, NY): "Georgetown signed Mourning, a 6-10, 235-pounder from Virginia and the consensus No. 1 high school player in the nation last year, and Milton Bell, a 6-6 forward from Richmond, Va. The Hoyas also beefed up their frontcourt with the addition of sophomore transfer John Turner, a 6-7, 235-pound forward."

- November 20, 1988, Newsday, "In describing Mourning's 235 pounds of well-placed mass, Williams said, 'half of it belongs to God; the other half belongs to Bill Lassiter.'"

- March 15, 1989, UPI, "Georgetown has dominated with center Dikembe Mutombo, a 7-foot-2, 235-pound center from Zaire, and Alonzo Mourning, a 6-10, 240-pound forward who was the Big East Defensive Player of the Year."

There are many others from Mourning's freshman year where he is listed as 230, 235, or 240. The 235 number seems the most frequently used, so I am guessing that's what Georgetown officially listed him at. I did not see any below 230, other than the one from when he was in high school (the first one above). These are from a private database, so I cannot link to the full articles.

Much of this is really beside the point anyway for purposes of our roster this year. Fielder does not need to be as big as Mourning was to be effective. Not as many teams have super-big centers or forwards anymore. It's a different world. Obviously, in an ideal world, with all things equal, you want bigger guys than smaller ones, but skilled big men are more important than hulking ones without skill.

Impossible, there is this one guy who watched on TV and remembers differently. He also remembers comic books so it checks out.

[hoyasaxa2003]

Aug 16, 2023 8:45:43 GMT -5 hoyaboya said:

Aug 16, 2023 5:42:43 GMT -5 Bigs"R"Us said:

After watching Hunter Dickinson and Akok Akok play out. I can truly say that we have no certainty as to who will be on next year’s roster. Every player has a price.

The particularly scary thing is that the coaching staff doesn't seem to have much of an idea on these things, either:

"In casual conversations with alumni and donors off-stage and at other JCW events, Ed Cooley is continuing to express a lot of confidence about the roster the team will have next season. He doesn’t seem worried about what awaits if Hunter Dickinson passes on Georgetown. We’ll see what happens."

hilltophoops.substack.com/p/john-carroll-weekend-georgetown-cooley

This is really a misleading post. First, of all, the Hilltop Hoops link is from late April 2023. Given that Akok stayed on the roster and worked out with the staff for several additional months, I don't think the statements in April matter at all. For all we know, Akok Akok told Cooley in April he was staying. Isn't that in the realm of possibility? After all, he DID stay a lot longer, so that is probably more likely than not.

Second, I am not sure how you view Cooley expressing confidence about the roster as problematic. I bet if you asked Cooley today about his roster, he'd say something similar. Coaches rarely, if ever, say "Yeah, well I think our roster stinks and we have untalented guys, but I will give it my best shot." Even coaches that throw players under the bus do not say that very often.

Third, the July 12 tweet of Akok working out with our team just further demonstrates that, at least at that time, Akok was on our roster. We have no way to know whether or when the staff learned of Akok's transfer intentions, but if he was with the team, I presume he at least had some intent of staying at the time (or if not, didn't tell anybody about it).

Fourth, the August tweet came not long before Akok transferred. But, again, reports from Hilltop Hoops made the Akok situation sound extremely fluid. One day he was leaving. One day he was staying. One day he wasn't with his teammates, the next day he was. My guess is that Akok likely went back and forth about the transfer, until ultimately he made his decision. I am sure Cooley made attempts to keep him at Georgetown. We will likely never know if a lack of NIL, or whatever, ultimately led to his departure.

I realize this is a golden ticket for those who do not like Cooley. See! He's only been coach a few months and he already lost a guy! I get it. And if this keeps happening, and it becomes a pattern, I'll complain about it, just like I did when Ewing could not keep his players (especially the starter-level players). But, for now, I give Cooley a break. Akok did not commit to Cooley at either Providence or Georgetown, and reports are that NIL was the major factor for Akok (plus playing with his friend). For these reasons, I just don't think, long-term, it's a big deal. To me, the 2024 class is key. We need all three of those guys to enroll and join Georgetown, and stay. And we need to build momentum for the 2025 class by improving this year, which won't be hard to do given where we were at when Cooley took over.

With NIL and free transfers, these sort of things are going to keep happening. But this is very different from what happened with Ewing because Ewing lost good players to transfers well before NIL, and before the free transfer rules. How much transferring/defecting is acceptable? I guess that remains to be seen. But, Cooley has never been the type of guy who has trouble keeping a roster, so I don't expect it to be more of a problem for Georgetown than anybody else. That said, while there were some encouraging bits about NIL when Cooley was hired, it is inevitable that Georgetown (and other members of the Big East) will have trouble keeping up when it comes to NIL as these football schools make more and more money with their huge alumni bases. I think Georgetown's collectives/alumni need to do the best they can to juice it's NIL coffers, but I really think we have little shot of keeping up with the rich football schools with large sets of alumni willing to light money in fire to get players, in the long term.

[prhoya]

Aug 16, 2023 9:58:11 GMT -5 thedragon said:

While Hoyaboya continues to clutter threads with the same innane BS (even having him on block hasent helped much - as its just threads of "This Post is hidden"), here is a solid thread that should hopefully help put to bed what Epps' main position is. Those that keep saying hes not a lead guard/point guard then have not seen him play. And those that think Rowan is going to start over him at PG just arent based in reality in my opinion.

Hes the best player with the highest ceiling on the current roster.

I don’t know about his play, but if he’s better than Rowan, then we’re going to surprise everybody.

[thedragon]

Aug 16, 2023 12:57:51 GMT -5 prhoya said:

Aug 16, 2023 9:58:11 GMT -5 thedragon said:

While Hoyaboya continues to clutter threads with the same innane BS (even having him on block hasent helped much - as its just threads of "This Post is hidden"), here is a solid thread that should hopefully help put to bed what Epps' main position is. Those that keep saying hes not a lead guard/point guard then have not seen him play. And those that think Rowan is going to start over him at PG just arent based in reality in my opinion.

Hes the best player with the highest ceiling on the current roster.

I don’t know about his play, but if he’s better than Rowan, then we’re going to surprise everybody.

Theyre very different players. Which is great for your two main lead guards and allows you to play them together at times. I just think people are sleeping on Epps (probably because he didn't play KL).

Rowan was a top 100ish recruit in 2022 class. Epps was top 50ish. Rowan redshirted his freshman year at Texas. Epps played well for a freshman getting big minutes for a Big 10 team in comference play. If Epps doesn't have the freakish concussion that effectively ended his season, I think there's a much different feel around his upcoming projection for next season. 247 has Epps as the 35th ranked transfer in the country. Rowan at 134. Not that rankings mean jack sh*t but it shows you where so called recruiting experts see the 2 on a pecking order.

I think Rowan will be a big part of the future of this program including next season. But I think if we want to overachieve in the short term, it will be dependent on Epps being a star, of which he is capable. My 2 cents.

[prhoya]

Aug 16, 2023 13:05:11 GMT -5 thedragon said:

Aug 16, 2023 12:57:51 GMT -5 prhoya said:

I don’t know about his play, but if he’s better than Rowan, then we’re going to surprise everybody.

Theyre very different players. Which is great for your two main lead guards and allows you to play thrm together at times. I just think people are sleeping on Epps (probably because he didn't play KL).

And Styles… and Rowan… and Drew… and Bristol…

Other than Heath, we have a bunch of potential sleepers.

[hoyasaxa2003]

Aug 16, 2023 13:22:28 GMT -5 prhoya said:

Aug 16, 2023 13:05:11 GMT -5 thedragon said:

Theyre very different players. Which is great for your two main lead guards and allows you to play thrm together at times. I just think people are sleeping on Epps (probably because he didn't play KL).

And Styles… and Rowan… and Drew… and Bristol…

Other than Heath, we have a bunch of potential sleepers.

Perhaps I missed it, but do we know why Epps did not play in Kenner League?

[dense]

Aug 16, 2023 15:56:06 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

Aug 16, 2023 13:22:28 GMT -5 prhoya said:

And Styles… and Rowan… and Drew… and Bristol…

Other than Heath, we have a bunch of potential sleepers.

Perhaps I missed it, but do we know why Epps did not play in Kenner League?

Cooley said during a press junket during the open practice that he had a wrist thing but if it was a real game he'd play. Every practice photo has him with a wrist wrap.

[professorhoya]

Aug 16, 2023 11:43:21 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

Aug 16, 2023 8:45:43 GMT -5 hoyaboya said:

The particularly scary thing is that the coaching staff doesn't seem to have much of an idea on these things, either:

"In casual conversations with alumni and donors off-stage and at other JCW events, Ed Cooley is continuing to express a lot of confidence about the roster the team will have next season. He doesn’t seem worried about what awaits if Hunter Dickinson passes on Georgetown. We’ll see what happens."

hilltophoops.substack.com/p/john-carroll-weekend-georgetown-cooley

This is really a misleading post. First, of all, the Hilltop Hoops link is from late April 2023. Given that Akok stayed on the roster and worked out with the staff for several additional months, I don't think the statements in April matter at all. For all we know, Akok Akok told Cooley in April he was staying. Isn't that in the realm of possibility? After all, he DID stay a lot longer, so that is probably more likely than not.

Second, I am not sure how you view Cooley expressing confidence about the roster as problematic. I bet if you asked Cooley today about his roster, he'd say something similar. Coaches rarely, if ever, say "Yeah, well I think our roster stinks and we have untalented guys, but I will give it my best shot." Even coaches that throw players under the bus do not say that very often.

Third, the July 12 tweet of Akok working out with our team just further demonstrates that, at least at that time, Akok was on our roster. We have no way to know whether or when the staff learned of Akok's transfer intentions, but if he was with the team, I presume he at least had some intent of staying at the time (or if not, didn't tell anybody about it).

Fourth, the August tweet came not long before Akok transferred. But, again, reports from Hilltop Hoops made the Akok situation sound extremely fluid. One day he was leaving. One day he was staying. One day he wasn't with his teammates, the next day he was. My guess is that Akok likely went back and forth about the transfer, until ultimately he made his decision. I am sure Cooley made attempts to keep him at Georgetown. We will likely never know if a lack of NIL, or whatever, ultimately led to his departure.

I realize this is a golden ticket for those who do not like Cooley. See! He's only been coach a few months and he already lost a guy! I get it. And if this keeps happening, and it becomes a pattern, I'll complain about it, just like I did when Ewing could not keep his players (especially the starter-level players). But, for now, I give Cooley a break. Akok did not commit to Cooley at either Providence or Georgetown, and reports are that NIL was the major factor for Akok (plus playing with his friend). For these reasons, I just don't think, long-term, it's a big deal. To me, the 2024 class is key. We need all three of those guys to enroll and join Georgetown, and stay. And we need to build momentum for the 2025 class by improving this year, which won't be hard to do given where we were at when Cooley took over.

With NIL and free transfers, these sort of things are going to keep happening. But this is very different from what happened with Ewing because Ewing lost good players to transfers well before NIL, and before the free transfer rules. How much transferring/defecting is acceptable? I guess that remains to be seen. But, Cooley has never been the type of guy who has trouble keeping a roster, so I don't expect it to be more of a problem for Georgetown than anybody else. That said, while there were some encouraging bits about NIL when Cooley was hired, it is inevitable that Georgetown (and other members of the Big East) will have trouble keeping up when it comes to NIL as these football schools make more and more money with their huge alumni bases. I think Georgetown's collectives/alumni need to do the best they can to juice it's NIL coffers, but I really think we have little shot of keeping up with the rich football schools with large sets of alumni willing to light money in fire to get players, in the long term.

Akok was likely waiting the whole time to finish summer classes and see if the Georgetown academic side would break their own rules to let him graduate.

If they didn’t let him graduate then he likely would have stayed here since he had to sit out a year.

Also Huggins was let go, West Virginia lost some players which created some NIL openings. I think that opportunity happened after Akok made his initial decision to stay.

[hoyasaxaphone]

Agree completely with this timeline for Akok's decision.

[TC]

Aug 16, 2023 22:50:39 GMT -5 hoyasaxaphone said:

Agree completely with this timeline for Akok's decision.