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Post by DoffBHoya on Jan 9, 2023 13:26:27 GMT -5
Ed Cooley is not coming to Georgetown, let's just be serious. I'd love Ed Cooley and think he'd be a better long-term guy than Pitino, but there's no way he'd entertain an offer. In terms of an African American coach ... I thought it was critical after JT3 to keep that legacy alive. I thought the school should have taken a flyer on some young black coach -- HC or assistant -- and then give that guy 3 to 4 years to rebuild. Well, unfortunately, I think everyone can now agree that the damage done over the last five years changes the job description. In my humble opinion, we need to win immediately and significantly ... and that points to hiring a coach who has won at the highest levels immediately ... who would consider this job now ... and that leads me back to Pitino and maybe Mack. Sampson and Cooley are not leaving sure things to come to Georgetown. Most of the other names mentioned are all big gambles on potential or taking big professional step ups. I know many people will not agree with this - but in the long run I firmly believe Georgetown basketball is too meaningful of an institution to the black community in America historically for our long term solution at head coach to not be black. The reason why I want Pitino is I know he is effectively a bridge QB for us (and a damn good one at that). He will get us back to national prominence immediately, and will inevitably retire in a few years which will put us in a good position to hand things off to someone to continue our legacy as Black America’s team. The problem with Pitino is he will inevitably leverage the job for his son, but that’s a battle I’m willing to punt on in the future. It’s also why Im infuriated they tried to make Ewing work for another year - if they had just hired Dennis Gates last spring we could’ve skipped this entire process. This issue is probably at the heart of this fan base and it begs the question of what Georgetown basketball really is. Does it have an identity beyond being the basketball program for Georgetown University? It does to me, and likely about half our fan base give or take. I know some folks (particularly alums) either never viewed it that way or no longer do so since its been quite some time since JT2 was on the sidelines fighting for these issues, but Georgetown basketball is to me way greater than just the students and alumni, and that’s not something we can ignore when thinking about long term vision. FWIW, JT2's hand-picked successor was white. |
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hoyaboya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,750 
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Post by hoyaboya on Jan 9, 2023 13:27:29 GMT -5
Ed Cooley is not coming to Georgetown, let's just be serious. I'd love Ed Cooley and think he'd be a better long-term guy than Pitino, but there's no way he'd entertain an offer. In terms of an African American coach ... I thought it was critical after JT3 to keep that legacy alive. I thought the school should have taken a flyer on some young black coach -- HC or assistant -- and then give that guy 3 to 4 years to rebuild. Well, unfortunately, I think everyone can now agree that the damage done over the last five years changes the job description. In my humble opinion, we need to win immediately and significantly ... and that points to hiring a coach who has won at the highest levels immediately ... who would consider this job now ... and that leads me back to Pitino and maybe Mack. Sampson and Cooley are not leaving sure things to come to Georgetown. Most of the other names mentioned are all big gambles on potential or taking big professional step ups. I know many people will not agree with this - but in the long run I firmly believe Georgetown basketball is too meaningful of an institution to the black community in America historically for our long term solution at head coach to not be black. The reason why I want Pitino is I know he is effectively a bridge QB for us (and a damn good one at that). He will get us back to national prominence immediately, and will inevitably retire in a few years which will put us in a good position to hand things off to someone to continue our legacy as Black America’s team. The problem with Pitino is he will inevitably leverage the job for his son, but that’s a battle I’m willing to punt on in the future. It’s also why Im infuriated they tried to make Ewing work for another year - if they had just hired Dennis Gates last spring we could’ve skipped this entire process. This issue is probably at the heart of this fan base and it begs the question of what Georgetown basketball really is. Does it have an identity beyond being the basketball program for Georgetown University? It does to me, and likely about half our fan base give or take. I know some folks (particularly alums) either never viewed it that way or no longer do so since its been quite some time since JT2 was on the sidelines fighting for these issues, but Georgetown basketball is to me way greater than just the students and alumni, and that’s not something we can ignore when thinking about long term vision. If you think this view represents half of the fan base, you're kidding yourself. And even if it did, then it truly does a lousy job of representing itself at games and Hoya basketball gatherings. |
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 19,532
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Post by SSHoya on Jan 9, 2023 13:31:16 GMT -5
I know many people will not agree with this - but in the long run I firmly believe Georgetown basketball is too meaningful of an institution to the black community in America historically for our long term solution at head coach to not be black. The reason why I want Pitino is I know he is effectively a bridge QB for us (and a damn good one at that). He will get us back to national prominence immediately, and will inevitably retire in a few years which will put us in a good position to hand things off to someone to continue our legacy as Black America’s team. The problem with Pitino is he will inevitably leverage the job for his son, but that’s a battle I’m willing to punt on in the future. It’s also why Im infuriated they tried to make Ewing work for another year - if they had just hired Dennis Gates last spring we could’ve skipped this entire process. This issue is probably at the heart of this fan base and it begs the question of what Georgetown basketball really is. Does it have an identity beyond being the basketball program for Georgetown University? It does to me, and likely about half our fan base give or take. I know some folks (particularly alums) either never viewed it that way or no longer do so since its been quite some time since JT2 was on the sidelines fighting for these issues, but Georgetown basketball is to me way greater than just the students and alumni, and that’s not something we can ignore when thinking about long term vision. FWIW, JT2's hand-picked successor was white. And Mike Riley was an assistant at the time as well and Pops picked Esherick over Riley to succeed him. |
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95hoya
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,313
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Post by 95hoya on Jan 9, 2023 13:34:26 GMT -5
College Basketball is not popular enough for people to care about the skin color of the head coach. What the Hoyas were in the 80s is dead and never coming back. They need a new identity and that’s a winning one. Hire the coach who best gives us that. The growth and popularity of the NBA has marginalized all of CBB. They are not part of the cultural landscape.
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Post by DoffBHoya on Jan 9, 2023 13:34:44 GMT -5
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thebin
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,874
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Post by thebin on Jan 9, 2023 13:39:55 GMT -5
It really comes down to whether or not the administration wants to compete nationally in basketball like it has in the past or concede. This should be a perennial top 35 program in the country with most years in the top 25. If they do, then you're taking swings at the big names and starting with Pitino. If you end up with an assistant or Ivy HC then you know where they see Gtown's future, and it's not to be a top program. If that's the direction you go, you cut the amount of funding that basketball gets and we all come to terms with the mediocrity the program will be going forward. I don't think I'm being dramatic by saying this. We cannot afford to go with an unknown quantity on the big stage. Period. You have a layup available. You absolutely put out feelers to the biggest names out there as well. If they're willing to spend the type of money that they have, it will be inexcusable to come away with anything but a sure thing. We've all been beaten down over the past decade + and the program is at a major crossroads. Pretty terrified to see what direction we go to be honest. Not to be a smart ass but the damage done the last 2 years means we cannot be serious about competing “nationally” until we take a year or 3 to stop the bleeding and focus on competing regionally next. The idea that a Cooley would consider leaving PC to go to the worst program in his own conference is laughable. We have put ourselves squarely in the market for a power 5 assistant or a (smaller) mid major hc. |
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Post by trillesthoya on Jan 9, 2023 13:40:10 GMT -5
I don’t think it’s relevant what JT2 thought - the fact that it didn’t matter to JT2 if his successor was black or not doesn’t mean anything to me. My basis for this argument isn’t just to have the program continue being an extension of JT2’s will post-mortem. |
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Post by trillesthoya on Jan 9, 2023 13:42:51 GMT -5
I know many people will not agree with this - but in the long run I firmly believe Georgetown basketball is too meaningful of an institution to the black community in America historically for our long term solution at head coach to not be black. The reason why I want Pitino is I know he is effectively a bridge QB for us (and a damn good one at that). He will get us back to national prominence immediately, and will inevitably retire in a few years which will put us in a good position to hand things off to someone to continue our legacy as Black America’s team. The problem with Pitino is he will inevitably leverage the job for his son, but that’s a battle I’m willing to punt on in the future. It’s also why Im infuriated they tried to make Ewing work for another year - if they had just hired Dennis Gates last spring we could’ve skipped this entire process. This issue is probably at the heart of this fan base and it begs the question of what Georgetown basketball really is. Does it have an identity beyond being the basketball program for Georgetown University? It does to me, and likely about half our fan base give or take. I know some folks (particularly alums) either never viewed it that way or no longer do so since its been quite some time since JT2 was on the sidelines fighting for these issues, but Georgetown basketball is to me way greater than just the students and alumni, and that’s not something we can ignore when thinking about long term vision. If you think this view represents half of the fan base, you're kidding yourself. And even if it did, then it truly does a lousy job of representing itself at games and Hoya basketball gatherings. When the team has been irrelevant for the better part of a decade, the only thing that motivates folks to show up to games and the hoops club is loyalty because of their degree. If/when the team is good again, Georgetown’s fanbase (particularly in DC) will return. It was readily apparent when we won the BET. Look around on social media and you’ll see a significant portion of our fans aren’t just alumni, they’re people that bought into idea of “Georgetown Basketball.” |
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thebin
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,874
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Post by thebin on Jan 9, 2023 13:53:10 GMT -5
If you think this view represents half of the fan base, you're kidding yourself. And even if it did, then it truly does a lousy job of representing itself at games and Hoya basketball gatherings. When the team has been irrelevant for the better part of a decade, the only thing that motivates folks to show up to games and the hoops club is loyalty because of their degree. If/when the team is good again, Georgetown’s fanbase (particularly in DC) will return. It was readily apparent when we won the BET. Look around on social media and you’ll see a significant portion of our fans aren’t just alumni, they’re people that bought into idea of “Georgetown Basketball.” I think its worth pointing out that the student/alumni fanbase is self-replicating. The non-university fanbase is aging and increasingly disinterested (can’t blame them) and will never be replaced. It will never be 1984 again in college basketball. Frankly a lot of them are just no longer with us. |
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 19,532
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Post by SSHoya on Jan 9, 2023 13:58:26 GMT -5
When the team has been irrelevant for the better part of a decade, the only thing that motivates folks to show up to games and the hoops club is loyalty because of their degree. If/when the team is good again, Georgetown’s fanbase (particularly in DC) will return. It was readily apparent when we won the BET. Look around on social media and you’ll see a significant portion of our fans aren’t just alumni, they’re people that bought into idea of “Georgetown Basketball.” I think its worth pointing out that the student/alumni fanbase is self-replicating. The non-university fanbase is aging and increasingly disinterested (can’t blame them) and will never be replaced. It will never be 1984 again in college basketball. Frankly a lot of them are just no longer with us. Even the university/alum fanbase is aging and increasingly disinterested. Exhibit A: ME! And many of my classmates. |
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DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 5,936
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jan 9, 2023 14:01:58 GMT -5
I know many people will not agree with this - but in the long run I firmly believe Georgetown basketball is too meaningful of an institution to the black community in America historically for our long term solution at head coach to not be black. The reason why I want Pitino is I know he is effectively a bridge QB for us (and a damn good one at that). He will get us back to national prominence immediately, and will inevitably retire in a few years which will put us in a good position to hand things off to someone to continue our legacy as Black America’s team. This is an issue for an later time. That said, Georgetown is not an HBCU and its lack of diversity on the court, on the bench, and in the basketball office is a point of conversation going forward. There was a time when Notre Dame considered itself "Catholic" America's Team. Its head coaches: Rockne, Layden, Leahy, Brennan, Kuharich, etc. were all Catholic men. In fact, ND hired seven consecutive Notre Dame alumni as coaches. When Hugh Devore went 2-7 in 1963, matching ND's fewest wins in a full season in school history, they didn't just hire the next Notre Dame man. They hired the best candidate out there: an son of Armenian immigrant who was a Presbyterian, played at Miami (OH), and coached at Northwestern--a decidedly un-Irish candidate. His name was Ara Parseghian. The Era of Ara didn't make ND any less Catholic, but it made their legacy much better. Marcus Freeman is neither Irish nor an ND alumnus, and he'll do just fine, too. |
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,481
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Post by TC on Jan 9, 2023 14:07:48 GMT -5
I know many people will not agree with this - but in the long run I firmly believe Georgetown basketball is too meaningful of an institution to the black community in America historically for our long term solution at head coach to not be black. The reason why I want Pitino is I know he is effectively a bridge QB for us (and a damn good one at that). I think the idea of a "long term solution" is something we should rethink. We are where we are today because of the extension. |
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guru
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,677
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Post by guru on Jan 9, 2023 14:19:06 GMT -5
If you think this view represents half of the fan base, you're kidding yourself. And even if it did, then it truly does a lousy job of representing itself at games and Hoya basketball gatherings. When the team has been irrelevant for the better part of a decade, the only thing that motivates folks to show up to games and the hoops club is loyalty because of their degree. If/when the team is good again, Georgetown’s fanbase (particularly in DC) will return. It was readily apparent when we won the BET. Look around on social media and you’ll see a significant portion of our fans aren’t just alumni, they’re people that bought into idea of “Georgetown Basketball.” Honestly, I find this line of thinking on this pretty disgusting - to somehow be locked into a certain race for a certain position seems antithetical to everything JT Jr stood for. But it does illuminate yet another quandary facing the school whenever it decides to end this painful Ewing experiment. I don't think the "brand" of Georgetown basketball represents anything anymore, to be frank. |
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Post by trillesthoya on Jan 9, 2023 14:35:24 GMT -5
When the team has been irrelevant for the better part of a decade, the only thing that motivates folks to show up to games and the hoops club is loyalty because of their degree. If/when the team is good again, Georgetown’s fanbase (particularly in DC) will return. It was readily apparent when we won the BET. Look around on social media and you’ll see a significant portion of our fans aren’t just alumni, they’re people that bought into idea of “Georgetown Basketball.” Honestly, I find this line of thinking on this pretty disgusting - to somehow be locked into a certain race for a certain position seems antithetical to everything JT Jr stood for. But it does illuminate yet another quandary facing the school whenever it decides to end this painful Ewing experiment. I don't think the "brand" of Georgetown basketball represents anything anymore, to be frank. I’m not sure why people keep citing JT2 in this conversation, as if he is a religious leader whose guidance and subjective beliefs we must follow as law. JT2’s beliefs have nothing to do with my argument and they most certainly are not what I am advocating for. At risk of making this conversation overtly political which is not my intention, I see nothing wrong with wanting to preserve the status of a historically black institution like Georgetown hoops even if the school itself is not an HBCU - to call that desire “disgusting” is hilarious and quite telling. No one is locked into hiring a coach of a particular race, as evidenced by the fact that I am calling for us to hire Pitino, I just believe that our heritage as Black America’s team is a fundamental part of our identity and its something we should encourage moving forward rather than leaving in the past, and continuing that legacy is much easier when you actually have a black coach. I recognize that Georgetown’s brand as you claim is functionally meaningless, but that is something I want to reverse rather than becoming effectively a semi-professional soulless entity that 99% of other schools have become. |
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hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,235
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Post by hoya9797 on Jan 9, 2023 14:42:52 GMT -5
I know many people will not agree with this - but in the long run I firmly believe Georgetown basketball is too meaningful of an institution to the black community in America historically for our long term solution at head coach to not be black. The reason why I want Pitino is I know he is effectively a bridge QB for us (and a damn good one at that). He will get us back to national prominence immediately, and will inevitably retire in a few years which will put us in a good position to hand things off to someone to continue our legacy as Black America’s team. The problem with Pitino is he will inevitably leverage the job for his son, but that’s a battle I’m willing to punt on in the future. It’s also why Im infuriated they tried to make Ewing work for another year - if they had just hired Dennis Gates last spring we could’ve skipped this entire process. This issue is probably at the heart of this fan base and it begs the question of what Georgetown basketball really is. Does it have an identity beyond being the basketball program for Georgetown University? It does to me, and likely about half our fan base give or take. I know some folks (particularly alums) either never viewed it that way or no longer do so since its been quite some time since JT2 was on the sidelines fighting for these issues, but Georgetown basketball is to me way greater than just the students and alumni, and that’s not something we can ignore when thinking about long term vision. FWIW, JT2's hand-picked successor was white. Still is. |
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Post by trillesthoya on Jan 9, 2023 14:46:34 GMT -5
When the team has been irrelevant for the better part of a decade, the only thing that motivates folks to show up to games and the hoops club is loyalty because of their degree. If/when the team is good again, Georgetown’s fanbase (particularly in DC) will return. It was readily apparent when we won the BET. Look around on social media and you’ll see a significant portion of our fans aren’t just alumni, they’re people that bought into idea of “Georgetown Basketball.” I think it’s worth pointing out that the student/alumni fanbase is self-replicating. The non-university fanbase is aging and increasingly disinterested (can’t blame them) and will never be replaced. It will never be 1984 again in college basketball. Frankly a lot of them are just no longer with us. The reason Georgetown became DC’s team isn’t because of proximity. It’s because they were GOOD and because they represented something off the court that the city could get behind. It’s the reason why the Twerps still aren’t the DMV’s team despite the signs they throw up on highways to force it. The city is ultimately the core constituency I am concerned about, and I promise you that is a much larger group of fans to tap into than Georgetown’s student and alumni base will ever be. |
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,661
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jan 9, 2023 14:47:19 GMT -5
We need to win games, we don’t need to aspire to be Black America’s team. Just hire the best coach possible, forget the color of their skin.
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,661
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Jan 9, 2023 14:52:10 GMT -5
I think it’s worth pointing out that the student/alumni fanbase is self-replicating. The non-university fanbase is aging and increasingly disinterested (can’t blame them) and will never be replaced. It will never be 1984 again in college basketball. Frankly a lot of them are just no longer with us. The reason Georgetown became DC’s team isn’t because of proximity. It’s because they were GOOD and because they represented something off the court that the city could get behind. It’s the reason why the Twerps still aren’t the DMV’s team despite the signs they throw up on highways to force it. The city is ultimately the core constituency I am concerned about, and I promise you that is a much larger group of fans to tap into than Georgetown’s student and alumni base will ever be. You’re trying to resurrect something that cannot be. There is only one JT2 and folks in DC aren’t going to wear Gtown Starter jackets any time soon. We need to rebuild from the ground up, not recreate the’80s. |
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Post by HoyasAreHungry on Jan 9, 2023 14:54:00 GMT -5
It really comes down to whether or not the administration wants to compete nationally in basketball like it has in the past or concede. This should be a perennial top 35 program in the country with most years in the top 25. If they do, then you're taking swings at the big names and starting with Pitino. If you end up with an assistant or Ivy HC then you know where they see Gtown's future, and it's not to be a top program. If that's the direction you go, you cut the amount of funding that basketball gets and we all come to terms with the mediocrity the program will be going forward. I don't think I'm being dramatic by saying this. We cannot afford to go with an unknown quantity on the big stage. Period. You have a layup available. You absolutely put out feelers to the biggest names out there as well. If they're willing to spend the type of money that they have, it will be inexcusable to come away with anything but a sure thing. We've all been beaten down over the past decade + and the program is at a major crossroads. Pretty terrified to see what direction we go to be honest. Not to be a smart ass but the damage done the last 2 years means we cannot be serious about competing “nationally” until we take a year or 3 to stop the bleeding and focus on competing regionally next. The idea that a Cooley would consider leaving PC to go to the worst program in his own conference is laughable. We have put ourselves squarely in the market for a power 5 assistant or a (smaller) mid major hc. Not sure where I wrote that we would be back to competing nationally next year in what I wrote....I said we should be a perennial top 35 program with most years top 25. Should be. Not will be next year. I also never mentioned Cooley however I personally don't think it's as crazy as some think (but certainly not counting on it). I completely disagree with your assertion that we can only get a power 5 assistant or mid major HC...that's insane. We're Georgetown for eff sake. That name does mean something still despite how far we've been driven into the ground. We spend in the top 15 of basketball programs nationwide. We pay our coach $4M a year!! We're an attractive location. My concern is that the powers that be aren't equipped or even have the want to continue to be a top dog anymore. We'll see soon enough. finance.yahoo.com/news/25-colleges-spend-most-men-120050899.html |
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Jan 9, 2023 14:57:00 GMT -5
We need to win games, we don’t need to aspire to be Black America’s team. Just hire the best coach possible, forget the color of their skin. What happened in the 1980s with our team and the wide-ranging appeal was something unique to the moment, which of course involved John Thompson, Patrick Ewing, and many others. But, the fact is, Georgetown lost this "status" (if you can even call it that) a long time ago. It is not a coincindence that most of the non-alumni fans of that era are aging. But, the idea that Georgetown could ever replicate our status/cultural significance in the 1980s is misguided. It was special, and a great thing, but it is no longer with us, in part because Georgetown's dominance in college basketball declined after the 1980s, but also because of other cultural changes (for example, there are now many other successful Black coaches). So, efforts to choose our next coach based on regaining that glory and status is pointless because it is impossible. |
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