Head Coaches Discussion

[Bigs"R"Us]

If we don’t go big with our next selection (Pitino), then our upside will be limited. We need a shock the world hire who can create buzz from the get go.

[1427hoya]

Jan 6, 2023 11:18:49 GMT -5 Bigs"R"Us said:

If we don’t go big with our next selection (Pitino), then our upside will be limited. We need a shock the world hire who can create buzz from the get go.

Does Amaker qualify?

[hoya9797]

Jan 6, 2023 11:23:54 GMT -5 1427hoya said:

Jan 6, 2023 11:18:49 GMT -5 Bigs"R"Us said:

If we don’t go big with our next selection (Pitino), then our upside will be limited. We need a shock the world hire who can create buzz from the get go.

Does Amaker qualify?

Joking, right?

[78HOYA78]

Anthony Davis - one losing season as a head coach.

[78HOYA78]

OOops - Anthony Grant.

[hoyaroc]

There’s so much corruption going on right now.

[professorhoya]

Jan 6, 2023 10:33:33 GMT -5 RBHoya said:

Beard will not be a factor for us. He'll take probably a year out, then he'll pop up at a mid-major (AAC-type level) where he'll rehab his image for a couple years, and then if that goes well he will get looks from high majors again, especially if he can beat the charges or plead them down or something. He's persona non grata until it's resolved though.

I don't think Texas will really be a competitor for us for guys like Pitino or Mack. They are a strong enough program to have good options without needing to take on any baggage. Just like they did with Beard, they will pluck a coach who is already successful at a high major job, just a less attractive high major job than Texas. Oats at Alabama? Sampson? Pikiell at Rutgers? Somebody at that level is my guess. We will be more in competition with the school that needs to backfill after losing their coach to Texas than we are with Texas themselves.

We are at mid major level now.
He wont take a year off if he doesn’t have to because unlike most coaches who get fired he’s not getting paid and wont be able to get a commentator or TV studio job.

Once again beggars can’t be choosers (and that applies to both Beard and us)

Pitino has alot of options unlike Beard and us.

***

Oats is probably the best “hot young coach”. But is not well known for casual fans. That would be the only hang up for UT.
At This point Oats would only take an upgrade to Blue Blood level schools he would not be loooking to a backwards move to Georgetown.

[professorhoya]

Jan 6, 2023 10:00:28 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

The idea that Chris Beard could even be in the mix is insane because of the charges leveled at him. It doesn't matter what "has been proven" at this point. If full facts come out showing that Beard did not engage in abuse, then there will be plenty of chance for him to get another job as a college coach. But, it's way too premature for that now. I feel like it is crazy I even need to say this.

And by the way, in reference to what the good professorhoya said about Pitino, I've looked at some articles analyzing the Texas opening, and some of them do not even mention Pitino. It is not impossible, but I don't see Pitino landing in Texas.

You asked who is comparable to Pitino in terms of “win now”
Beard is really the only other one from a coaching standpoint.

For the reasons I mentioned, especially his friendship and mentorship of Ewing, the chances of Pitino coming here are less than 1%.

Beard has no options and can’t even get a TV gig so more likely to grab the best thing he can get. Even if that means coming to Georgetown.

Realistically if there’s a change it’s going to end up being Nickleberry, Ronnie or some mediocre no name Coach (Dave Leitao type). And you will be completely disillusioned and demoralized.

That’s the danger in going all in on Pitino a guy who is least likely to come here.

[hoyaguy]

Jan 6, 2023 11:59:22 GMT -5 professorhoya said:

Jan 6, 2023 10:33:33 GMT -5 RBHoya said:

Beard will not be a factor for us. He'll take probably a year out, then he'll pop up at a mid-major (AAC-type level) where he'll rehab his image for a couple years, and then if that goes well he will get looks from high majors again, especially if he can beat the charges or plead them down or something. He's persona non grata until it's resolved though.

I don't think Texas will really be a competitor for us for guys like Pitino or Mack. They are a strong enough program to have good options without needing to take on any baggage. Just like they did with Beard, they will pluck a coach who is already successful at a high major job, just a less attractive high major job than Texas. Oats at Alabama? Sampson? Pikiell at Rutgers? Somebody at that level is my guess. We will be more in competition with the school that needs to backfill after losing their coach to Texas than we are with Texas themselves.

We are at mid major level now.

*we are at mid major now because of Ewing’s coaching tenure and stubbornness.

If we really do hire some mediocre coach like amaker then Ronny likely wasn’t removed which means the program is done anyway and I’ll find a new team to support. Yes, pitino is a long shot because of the weak leadership in the university even though he is the obvious answer but he would raise the terrible bar that has crashed through the floor thanks to Ewing, JD and Ronny. I would much rather an up and comer rather than a mediocre coach who topped out at the Ivy League or got fried from many other HM jobs. Some people are just trying to find hope in the program’s future instead of looking forward to another record breaking terrible season under Ewing. Do you think he should have another year?

[Bigs"R"Us]

Agree that JD won’t make a bold move, especially this late in his tenure.

[iowa80]

Jan 6, 2023 12:05:41 GMT -5 professorhoya said:

Jan 6, 2023 10:00:28 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

The idea that Chris Beard could even be in the mix is insane because of the charges leveled at him. It doesn't matter what "has been proven" at this point. If full facts come out showing that Beard did not engage in abuse, then there will be plenty of chance for him to get another job as a college coach. But, it's way too premature for that now. I feel like it is crazy I even need to say this.

And by the way, in reference to what the good professorhoya said about Pitino, I've looked at some articles analyzing the Texas opening, and some of them do not even mention Pitino. It is not impossible, but I don't see Pitino landing in Texas.

You asked who is comparable to Pitino in terms of “win now”
Beard is really the only other one from a coaching standpoint.

For the reasons I mentioned, especially his friendship and mentorship of Ewing, the chances of Pitino coming here are less than 1%.

Beard has no options and can’t even get a TV gig so more likely to grab the best thing he can get. Even if that means coming to Georgetown.

Realistically if there’s a change it’s going to end up being Nickleberry, Ronnie or some mediocre no name Coach (Dave Leitao type). And you will be completely disillusioned and demoralized.

That’s the danger in going all in on Pitino a guy who is least likely to come here.

Leaving Pitino aside for the moment, you cannot seriously believe that there is any chance we would be interested in Beard.  Or do you?

[hoyasaxa2003]

Beard isn't happening. From an ESPN article:

"The University of Texas has parted ways with Chris Beard," he said. "This has been a difficult situation that we've been diligently working through. Today I informed Mr. Beard of our decision to terminate him effective immediately."

The university's vice president of legal affairs, Jim Davis, wrote in a letter to Beard's attorney, Perry Minton, that Beard engaged in "unacceptable behavior that makes him unfit to serve as head coach at our university." Whether prosecutors continue with the case does not determine whether Beard engaged in conduct unbecoming of the school, Davis wrote.

Beard was arrested on the morning of Dec. 12 after his fiancée, Randi Trew, told officers he choked her from behind, bit her and hit her when the two got in an argument. Trew released a statement on Dec. 23 in which she denied telling police Beard choked her.

"Chris did not strangle me, and I told that to law enforcement that evening," Trew said in her statement. "Chris has stated that he was acting in self-defense, and I do not refute that. I do not believe Chris was trying to intentionally harm me in any way."

Trew's statement did not address why she made the emergency call or other details in the police report, such as bite marks and abrasions on her face and telling officers that she couldn't breathe for about five seconds.

Beard is an amazing coach, but this just makes him untouchable for the time being by any university that cares at all about its image. Keep in mind it's not like Texas is the most holier than thou place either, Beard was finally a great coach that they had hired, and he's an alumnus. If Texas won't touch him, nobody else will for a while, and certainly not until the situation plays out.

Total speculation, but the fiancee's December 23 statement sounds like an after-the-fact attempt to try to help Beard save his job and reputation. But, who knows. What I do know is that Georgetown would not touch him with a ten foot pole right now, nor should they.

[hoyasaxa2003]

Jan 6, 2023 12:05:41 GMT -5 professorhoya said:

For the reasons I mentioned, especially his friendship and mentorship of Ewing, the chances of Pitino coming here are less than 1%.
***
Realistically if there’s a change it’s going to end up being Nickleberry, Ronnie or some mediocre no name Coach (Dave Leitao type). And you will be completely disillusioned and demoralized.

That’s the danger in going all in on Pitino a guy who is least likely to come here.

We will have to agree to disagree. I think you're way overestimating the deference Pitino would give Ewing. I do think the odds are low DeGioia would be bold enough to hire Pitino, but I also think that 1% is way too low. We have no idea what stipulations the buyout money come with, we have no idea what Ewing would do in the aftermath (as I said long ago, a "save face" situation would be one where they hire Pitino and Ewing says he wanted to leave the program in good hands), we have no idea what influence, if any, Ronny will continue to have, and the national media is even talking about Pitino and Mack. On its own, the media is meaningless, but it does influence people.

I would be massively disappointed with Amaker or Nickelberry, especially Nickelberry. These are simply not qualified or well suited people for the job. So yeah, I would be disillusioned or demoralized if they made a hire like that.

[SDHoya]

Beard is going to crawl into a hole and hide for a year or two (while his lawyers work on getting a financial settlement from UT) until the storm passes. The storm will not pass within the next twelve months.

Besides Pitino, the only other reasonably available "win now" guys I can think of are Mack and maybe Beilein. Pitino to UT is very unlikely except maybe as a fall back for the Horns. If GU Admin is serious, Pitino is gettable.

[Hordac]

Kevin Ollie makes plenty of sense. National Championship coach with Big East ties...

[trotters10]

Jan 6, 2023 13:40:29 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

Jan 6, 2023 12:05:41 GMT -5 professorhoya said:

For the reasons I mentioned, especially his friendship and mentorship of Ewing, the chances of Pitino coming here are less than 1%.
***
Realistically if there’s a change it’s going to end up being Nickleberry, Ronnie or some mediocre no name Coach (Dave Leitao type). And you will be completely disillusioned and demoralized.

That’s the danger in going all in on Pitino a guy who is least likely to come here.

We will have to agree to disagree. I think you're way overestimating the deference Pitino would give Ewing. I do think the odds are low DeGioia would be bold enough to hire Pitino, but I also think that 1% is way too low. We have no idea what stipulations the buyout money come with, we have no idea what Ewing would do in the aftermath (as I said long ago, a "save face" situation would be one where they hire Pitino and Ewing says he wanted to leave the program in good hands), we have no idea what influence, if any, Ronny will continue to have, and the national media is even talking about Pitino and Mack. On its own, the media is meaningless, but it does influence people.

I would be massively disappointed with Amaker or Nickelberry, especially Nickelberry. These are simply not qualified or well suited people for the job. So yeah, I would be disillusioned or demoralized if they made a hire like that.

As useless as the administration has been lately, I think even they would have to recognize that Amaker or Nickelberry would be terrible hires. If it's true the donors are starting to put pressure on Jack, then I think even he knows he needs to get this right as far as the next head coach is concerned. We need a big time coach, who is as good a sure thing as you can get. We can't hire some mediocre guy with the hope that things turn out well, because that is exactly what has put us in this position (and I don't think Ewing is mediocre for the record, I think it's painfully obvious he's a poor coach at the college level). 

The program is losing fans, even die-hard ones at a rapid rate from what I'm seeing. The team is setting records for extremely poor play. The grapevine seems to be reporting that donors won't put up with this anymore, and if you lose the donors, then there's a whole other problem to deal with. I think Jack HAS to be smart enough to realize that his needs to be fixed, and it needs to be gutted from the coach, to Ronny and I'm sure countless others (BILL HOWZE ANYONE!?). If he's not smart enough to realize that, and hires Amaker while keeping Ronny in his current job, then he can fall on his own sword. If his decision is to continue hiring Ronny's cronies, then it's highly likely this program goes completely down the tubes, and the remaining fans will have no choice but to leave. I truly believe the future of the program is at stake here. 

[iowa80]

Jan 6, 2023 14:05:27 GMT -5 trotters10 said:

Jan 6, 2023 13:40:29 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

We will have to agree to disagree. I think you're way overestimating the deference Pitino would give Ewing. I do think the odds are low DeGioia would be bold enough to hire Pitino, but I also think that 1% is way too low. We have no idea what stipulations the buyout money come with, we have no idea what Ewing would do in the aftermath (as I said long ago, a "save face" situation would be one where they hire Pitino and Ewing says he wanted to leave the program in good hands), we have no idea what influence, if any, Ronny will continue to have, and the national media is even talking about Pitino and Mack. On its own, the media is meaningless, but it does influence people.

I would be massively disappointed with Amaker or Nickelberry, especially Nickelberry. These are simply not qualified or well suited people for the job. So yeah, I would be disillusioned or demoralized if they made a hire like that.

As useless as the administration has been lately, I think even they would have to recognize that Amaker or Nickelberry would be terrible hires. If it's true the donors are starting to put pressure on Jack, then I think even he knows he needs to get this right as far as the next head coach is concerned. We need a big time coach, who is as good a sure thing as you can get. We can't hire some mediocre guy with the hope that things turn out well, because that is exactly what has put us in this position (and I don't think Ewing is mediocre for the record, I think it's painfully obvious he's a poor coach at the college level). 

The program is losing fans, even die-hard ones at a rapid rate from what I'm seeing. The team is setting records for extremely poor play. The grapevine seems to be reporting that donors won't put up with this anymore, and if you lose the donors, then there's a whole other problem to deal with. I think Jack HAS to be smart enough to realize that his needs to be fixed, and it needs to be gutted from the coach, to Ronny and I'm sure countless others (BILL HOWZE ANYONE!?). If he's not smart enough to realize that, and hires Amaker while keeping Ronny in his current job, then he can fall on his own sword. If his decision is to continue hiring Ronny's cronies, then it's highly likely this program goes completely down the tubes, and the remaining fans will have no choice but to leave. I truly believe the future of the program is at stake here. 

Agree about Amaker and Nickleberry, but it would be very Hoya-ish to throw some bucks at soon to be 59-year-old James Jones of Yale.  He's had a recent run of success and brings an "academic pedigree."  I am absolutely not endorsing this, but the guy might be ready for a pay day as he nears 60.  Plus he only lost to Butler by 10 on the road.

[TC]

Jan 6, 2023 13:56:05 GMT -5 Hordac said:

Kevin Ollie makes plenty of sense. National Championship coach with Big East ties...

Having coached a college turnaround is probably the #1 requirement here, Ollie has never done it. Took over a 20 win Calhoun team.

[alleninxis]

Kevin Ollie was an overtime away against St. Joe's from having a singular NCAA-Tournament win in six years at a ready-made program. His final two seasons at UConn were nearly Ewing-esque.

[RBHoya]

Jan 6, 2023 14:11:06 GMT -5 iowa80 said:

Agree about Amaker and Nickleberry, but it would be very Hoya-ish to throw some bucks at soon to be 59-year-old James Jones of Yale.  He's had a recent run of success and brings an "academic pedigree."  I am absolutely not endorsing this, but the guy might be ready for a pay day as he nears 60.  Plus he only lost to Butler by 10 on the road.

If I had to bet money today, he's the one I'd bet on. He is the most anodyne possible hire. He's objectively a better basketball coach than Ewing, nobody can argue that. He's coming from Yale, and I imagine in most cases when Georgetown is able to hire someone away from Yale it's a coup. For that reason it will go over well with the academic-types DeGioia hangs out with, and he can talk up in the press conference how Jones understands recruiting successful "student athletes" to a demanding academic institution etc. And because Jones is black, JD will be insulated from any criticism that might come from handing over the program to a white guy (I don't need a reminder on Esherick and not trying to be provocative on this point, just saying that we all know there are going to be some people who will be loudly critical if the next head coach is white). It's a nice, safe hire for Jack who nobody can really criticize too much in the short-term, and in the longer-term JD will have retired and it'll be somebody else's problem.

Will recruits be lining up to play for James Jones? Will he grab headlines or win the press conference? Does he have any NIL experience? Probably not to all of the above. But he's a very very safe pick that at the very beginning will shield JD from criticism from the basketball-minded people, the academics, the DEI-focused, and pretty much every major constituency that's watching the hire closely. And that's what I think someone like him is going to want.