Head Coaches Discussion

[alleninxis]

Jobs are largely what the head coach makes it, so long as you have a committed administration (time will tell)

Ed Cooley at his best can get more out of Georgetown than he ever can at Providence. Nate Oats - in my opinion - can get more out of Georgetown than he would at Alabama. Georgetown and Alabama are open in 2019 - what job does he take? It's Georgetown and it's not debatable. Of course now he's turned Alabama into a perennial Top 15 program and not the one he inherited that hadn't won an NCAA Tournament game in 13 years. HOUSTON! was in far worse shape when Sampson took on that job than Georgetown has ever been in.

This is a unique position - because we truly don't know how committed this University will be if a Thompson or Ewing is not in charge. However, I think as fans we fall victim or not giving this job the credit it deserves. You are the king here - there is no second fiddle to football. You are - when things are right - at least equals with UConn and Villanova as being the best job(s) in your own conference. You are in one of the best regions in the country to recruit. You're actual get to spend your life/your families life in a major city and not a Podunk college town (some may prefer that, most don't). And it pays - maybe not the allotment to assistants as some programs, but the HC here gets paid and paid well. You don't have to deal with irrational fans (nobody realizes just how tame this fan base is - ask Mark Turgeon about that factor) and media requirements? Ha.

[iowa80]

If no Pitino, if no Mack, if no Sampson, somebody's gotta say it: Mark Turgeon. That is all.

[DFW HOYA]

Jan 3, 2023 16:45:25 GMT -5 SSHoya said:

“A gentleman by the name of Lee Reed is Georgetown’s athletic director, but everyone knew that Thompson Jr. made all big decisions in the athletic department. Even with this search, which got handed over to the Korn Ferry search firm, the names Paul Tagliabue and Big John come up far more often in conversations than Lee Reed. In an era where alignment is the buzzword among coaches, the Hoya Paranoia has boomeranged back to haunt them.”

Except of course, it wasn't true.

John Thompson had no interest in being an athletic director. No one at the Duke basketball Report may believe this, but no one at Georgetown asked John whether to add a women's soccer program or to negotiate the Fox Sports deal.

Thompson had clout, and those who have it know that it is most powerful when used sparingly. John didn't tell Frank Rienzo how to do his job, because he let Frank steer the ship while he manned the cannons. He didn't tell Lee Reed how to be an AD, though I'm sure he could offer advice, solicited or not. If he cleared the tracks to have Patrick Ewing hired, it was not because GU asked him to do so, but that he saw the end of the House of Thompson and wasn't going to be happy spending his remaining years with a coach that might not give him free run of the place, or wasn't from his circle of friends. In short, he was kicking the can down the road for what is about to follow, which will be messy, uncomfortable, and disruptive to the way that this program has been run all these years.

[prhoya]

Jan 3, 2023 18:20:48 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

Jan 3, 2023 16:45:25 GMT -5 SSHoya said:

“A gentleman by the name of Lee Reed is Georgetown’s athletic director, but everyone knew that Thompson Jr. made all big decisions in the athletic department. Even with this search, which got handed over to the Korn Ferry search firm, the names Paul Tagliabue and Big John come up far more often in conversations than Lee Reed. In an era where alignment is the buzzword among coaches, the Hoya Paranoia has boomeranged back to haunt them.”

Except of course, it wasn't true.

John Thompson had no interest in being an athletic director. No one at the Duke basketball Report may believe this, but no one at Georgetown asked John whether to add a women's soccer program or to negotiate the Fox Sports deal.

Thompson had clout, and those who have it know that it is most powerful when used sparingly. John didn't tell Frank Rienzo how to do his job, because he let Frank steer the ship while he manned the cannons. He didn't tell Lee Reed how to be an AD, though I'm sure he could offer advice, solicited or not. If he cleared the tracks to have Patrick Ewing hired, it was not because GU asked him to do so, but that he saw the end of the House of Thompson and wasn't going to be happy spending his remaining years with a coach that might not give him free run of the place, or wasn't from his circle of friends. In short, he was kicking the can down the road for what is about to follow, which will be messy, uncomfortable, and disruptive to the way that this program has been run all these years.

Bring it!

[SSHoya]

Jan 3, 2023 18:20:48 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

Jan 3, 2023 16:45:25 GMT -5 SSHoya said:

“A gentleman by the name of Lee Reed is Georgetown’s athletic director, but everyone knew that Thompson Jr. made all big decisions in the athletic department. Even with this search, which got handed over to the Korn Ferry search firm, the names Paul Tagliabue and Big John come up far more often in conversations than Lee Reed. In an era where alignment is the buzzword among coaches, the Hoya Paranoia has boomeranged back to haunt them.”

Except of course, it wasn't true.

John Thompson had no interest in being an athletic director. No one at the Duke basketball Report may believe this, but no one at Georgetown asked John whether to add a women's soccer program or to negotiate the Fox Sports deal.

Thompson had clout, and those who have it know that it is most powerful when used sparingly. John didn't tell Frank Rienzo how to do his job, because he let Frank steer the ship while he manned the cannons. He didn't tell Lee Reed how to be an AD, though I'm sure he could offer advice, solicited or not. If he cleared the tracks to have Patrick Ewing hired, it was not because GU asked him to do so, but that he saw the end of the House of Thompson and wasn't going to be happy spending his remaining years with a coach that might not give him free run of the place, or wasn't from his circle of friends. In short, he was kicking the can down the road for what is about to follow, which will be messy, uncomfortable, and disruptive to the way that this program has been run all these years.

More acccurately would be all the decisions in the basketball program. Korn Ferry was cover. Please persuade me otherwise.

[alleninxis]

There's at least one (good) candidate he put a stop to in 2017

[DFW HOYA]

Jan 3, 2023 18:26:16 GMT -5 SSHoya said:

More acccurately would be all the decisions in the basketball program. Korn Ferry was cover. Please persuade me otherwise.

Key word here: all the decisions in the basketball program. It's not supportable.

Here are 10 of the biggest decisions of men's basketball over the last 20 years or so. Did John make these decisions?

1. Turning down the 2002 NIT? No.
2. Having Craig Esherick fired? No.
3. Hiring JT III? He was happy with the outcome but kept his distance inasmuch as knew JT III would fit and the other candidates were not strong.
4. The transition of the Nike deal to University control and out of the basketball office? No way...
5. Green-lighting for the practice facility? That happened because of JT III's contract.
6. Voting down the 2011 ESPN contract offer? Above his pay grade.
7. The stealth around Big East 3.0 and the FS1 deal? No--that was at the president's office all the way.
8. Having JT III fired? No.
9. Hiring Ewing? Again, he may have meddled but he didn't make the final call.
10. Circling the wagons after LeBlanc/Alexander/Gardner? No.

[hoyasaxa2003]

Jan 3, 2023 18:20:48 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

Jan 3, 2023 16:45:25 GMT -5 SSHoya said:

“A gentleman by the name of Lee Reed is Georgetown’s athletic director, but everyone knew that Thompson Jr. made all big decisions in the athletic department. Even with this search, which got handed over to the Korn Ferry search firm, the names Paul Tagliabue and Big John come up far more often in conversations than Lee Reed. In an era where alignment is the buzzword among coaches, the Hoya Paranoia has boomeranged back to haunt them.”

Except of course, it wasn't true.

John Thompson had no interest in being an athletic director. No one at the Duke basketball Report may believe this, but no one at Georgetown asked John whether to add a women's soccer program or to negotiate the Fox Sports deal.

Thompson had clout, and those who have it know that it is most powerful when used sparingly. John didn't tell Frank Rienzo how to do his job, because he let Frank steer the ship while he manned the cannons. He didn't tell Lee Reed how to be an AD, though I'm sure he could offer advice, solicited or not. If he cleared the tracks to have Patrick Ewing hired, it was not because GU asked him to do so, but that he saw the end of the House of Thompson and wasn't going to be happy spending his remaining years with a coach that might not give him free run of the place, or wasn't from his circle of friends. In short, he was kicking the can down the road for what is about to follow, which will be messy, uncomfortable, and disruptive to the way that this program has been run all these years.

This is a major indictment of John Thompson. A well-run program would not face a "messy, uncomfortable, and disruptive" situation if the right mechanisms and structures were put into place, or had there been a succession plan other than making efforts at all costs to have a coach that John Thompson could cling to. And that's why guys like Hurley had no chance in 2017, because John Thompson wouldn't stand for allowing a coach that didn't fall into his world. At best, this approach is disfunctional.

A lot of programs succeed by promoting within, etc., and under the right circumstances that works. But, John Thompson simply did not beget a coaching tree to allow for that, and neither did JT3. It would be great if a Georgetown-affiliated person met the qualifications for coaching, but that person simply does not exist. We are overdue for a total change anyway.

[SSHoya]

Jan 3, 2023 19:00:49 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

Jan 3, 2023 18:26:16 GMT -5 SSHoya said:

More acccurately would be all the decisions in the basketball program. Korn Ferry was cover. Please persuade me otherwise.

Key word here: all the decisions in the basketball program. It's not supportable.

Here are 10 of the biggest decisions of men's basketball over the last 20 years or so. Did John make these decisions?

1. Turning down the 2002 NIT? No.
2. Having Craig Esherick fired? No.
3. Hiring JT III? He was happy with the outcome but kept his distance inasmuch as knew JT III would fit and the other candidates were not strong.
4. The transition of the Nike deal to University control and out of the basketball office? No way...
5. Green-lighting for the practice facility? That happened because of JT III's contract.
6. Voting down the 2011 ESPN contract offer? Above his pay grade.
7. The stealth around Big East 3.0 and the FS1 deal? No--that was at the president's office all the way.
8. Having JT III fired? No.
9. Hiring Ewing? Again, he may have meddled but he didn't make the final call.
10. Circling the wagons after LeBlanc/Alexander/Gardner? No.

Pops had a negative veto power. If he didn't "make" the decision, he certainly didn't object. And green-lighting the practice facility is simply silly. Of course he'd be in favor of that! So you'd have us believe that with Pops hanging around, no one ever said, "Hey find out what John thinks about this?"

[hoya9797]

Jan 3, 2023 18:28:38 GMT -5 alleninxis said:

There's at least one (good) candidate he put a stop to in 2017

Who?

[DFW HOYA]

Jan 3, 2023 19:04:49 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

This is a major indictment of John Thompson. A well-run program would not face a "messy, uncomfortable, and disruptive" situation if the right mechanisms and structures were put into place, or had there been a succession plan other than making efforts at all costs to have a coach that John Thompson could cling to. And that's why guys like Hurley had no chance in 2017, because John Thompson wouldn't stand for allowing a coach that didn't fall into his world. At best, this approach is dysfunctional.

A similar case is, or will soon play out in, Syracuse. Jim Boeheim tore up one retirement/succession plan and there's no guarantee he wouldn't do it again.

[EtomicB]

Jan 3, 2023 17:39:38 GMT -5 SDHoya said:

Jan 3, 2023 17:30:47 GMT -5 EtomicB said:

Gtown couldn't even get Amaker interested in the position SD, Imo the talk of Mack or Smart or Brey was all about trying to drum up interest.

A good program doesn't swing & miss on top candidates & then end up with a coach without head coaching or college experience.

If it did by some terrible miracle it does happen that way a good program doesn't then allow this inexperienced coach to assemble the 1st staff PE ended up with..

A good program doesn't extend a coach off of a 4 game run touney run regardless of how great it was or keep him after a winless conference season..

I could go on & on but I'm sure you get the point..

Etomic--the last 5+ years speak for themselves. None of that means that if the admin is committed to moving forward and returning to competitiveness, that someone like Pitino or Mack, who no doubt have chips on their respective shoulders, wouldn't be on the Hilltop in a heartbeat. We'll find out soon enough if they are.

"If" is the most important word, for good programs, there is no "if" when it comes to how committed they are.

Again in my view, coaches with options aren't coming to programs that are iffy about how committed they are.

[hoyaatheart55]

Jan 3, 2023 18:19:29 GMT -5 iowa80 said:

If no Pitino, if no Mack, if no Sampson, somebody's gotta say it: Mark Turgeon. That is all.

It’s a no for me dog

[hoyainthe315]

Jan 3, 2023 19:32:21 GMT -5 DFW HOYA said:

Jan 3, 2023 19:04:49 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

This is a major indictment of John Thompson. A well-run program would not face a "messy, uncomfortable, and disruptive" situation if the right mechanisms and structures were put into place, or had there been a succession plan other than making efforts at all costs to have a coach that John Thompson could cling to. And that's why guys like Hurley had no chance in 2017, because John Thompson wouldn't stand for allowing a coach that didn't fall into his world. At best, this approach is dysfunctional.

A similar case is, or will soon play out in, Syracuse. Jim Boeheim tore up one retirement/succession plan and there's no guarantee he wouldn't do it again.

I live in Central NY and unfortunately for us their situation is much better than ours, simply because their athletic director will spend the $$$ to be competitive. Boeheim is a dinosaur and they won’t get rid of him but he only has what maybe 1 more year, but they have ACC money and if they are willing to pay almost a million dollars for a offensive and defensive coordinator they will pay for a good coach. Hopefully we have the ability to make that commitment to fix the nightmare!

[royski]

Just get Pitino. Haven't we suffered enough? Let's win next year, not maybe in 5 years.

[iowa80]

Jan 3, 2023 20:03:12 GMT -5 hoyaatheart55 said:

Jan 3, 2023 18:19:29 GMT -5 iowa80 said:

If no Pitino, if no Mack, if no Sampson, somebody's gotta say it: Mark Turgeon. That is all.

It’s a no for me dog

Rejecting anything with a whiff of UMCP marks you as a person of extraordinary taste.  However, desperate times may call for desperate measures.  I would prefer him to the next "hot" assistant or a mid major guy with no east coast experience.  We cannot have a miss and I doubt that he would be one.  There are those more preferable, but I'm not sure they'd take the job.  He might.

'

[nbhoya]

Can I just say this to the anti-Pitino crowd. It’s ironic (and hypocritical) that Georgetown prides itself on giving ex-criminals second chances, going as far as offering Liberal Studies degrees, law programs, etc. Yet, it’s fans are unwilling to do the same for a coach.

[hoyaatheart55]

Jan 3, 2023 20:38:39 GMT -5 iowa80 said:

Jan 3, 2023 20:03:12 GMT -5 hoyaatheart55 said:

It’s a no for me dog

Rejecting anything with a whiff of UMCP marks you as a person of extraordinary taste.  However, desperate times may call for desperate measures.  I would prefer him to the next "hot" assistant or a mid major guy with no east coast experience.  We cannot have a miss and I doubt that he would be one.  There are those more preferable, but I'm not sure they'd take the job.  He might.

'

I don’t care that he coached at Maryland, I just think we can do better.

[iowa80]

Jan 3, 2023 21:16:14 GMT -5 hoyaatheart55 said:

Jan 3, 2023 20:38:39 GMT -5 iowa80 said:

Rejecting anything with a whiff of UMCP marks you as a person of extraordinary taste.  However, desperate times may call for desperate measures.  I would prefer him to the next "hot" assistant or a mid major guy with no east coast experience.  We cannot have a miss and I doubt that he would be one.  There are those more preferable, but I'm not sure they'd take the job.  He might.

'

I don’t care that he coached at Maryland, I just think we can do better.

That's fine.  I'd suggest looking at his body of work, his familiarity with recruiting in the area, and the state of our program.  There are some names that might be "better," and I'd still look at them, but that list is about "five."

[trillesthoya]

Jan 3, 2023 20:42:47 GMT -5 nbhoya said:

Can I just say this to the anti-Pitino crowd. It’s ironic (and hypocritical) that Georgetown prides itself on giving ex-criminals second chances, going as far as offering Liberal Studies degrees, law programs, etc. Yet, its fans are unwilling to do the same for a coach.

I’m as pro-Pitino as you can get but this is a very bad comparison imo. If you’re just talking about the overall value of redemption and forgiveness, I guess, but you’re comparing a tremendously successful (and by extension privileged) man who served no actual punishment besides losing his job for years of egregious cheating and rules breaking to folks who have overwhelmingly been dealt an incredibly difficult hand by life from day one. Its also a man in his seventies, he’s likely not ethically and morally a fundamentally different person than he was six years ago when he was caught, he just has to be more careful now that he was caught.