Head Coaches Discussion

[professorhoya]

Jan 3, 2023 15:11:55 GMT -5 playtyler said:

Hard pass on Pitino Sr. and Mack. One is an over-the-hill philanderer cheater and the other is a toxic program killer. I think we need to go with a proven program builder or start with a promising hungry coach on the ascension who will tirelessly work to make us relevant again. There are lots of great established coaches who are currently employed and winning without the Pitino age and Mack baggage. We should check in to see if any of these coaches with East Coast ties stuck in far away jobs might be interested: Eric Musselman, Andy Enfield, Nate Oats, Mike Boynton, Ed Cooley (among others). If we strike out on those, we go with younger coaches who are potential long-term solutions and program builders like Gates!!!, McCasland, Pitino Jr., Medved, English, Odom.

Oats wouldn’t come here. That’s a step down for him and he’s in high demand.

In this scenario the best thing to do is wait for the tournament and find a hot coach who makes noise (like Shaheen Holloway) and gobble him up. High school recruiting is a lot less important now with the transfer portal so there’s no reason to get a coach early. Plus the coach would likely bring over his high school recruits anyway.

[EtomicB]

Jan 3, 2023 14:49:01 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

Jan 3, 2023 10:54:37 GMT -5 drquigley said:

The problem is that a new coach has to be more than an x' and o's guy. He has to rebuild an entire program from the ground up. That means not just recruiting but also transitioning from the JT2 legacy and a University that may not be ready to do that. In short, Rick Pitino.

This. Rick Pitino is so obviously the best choice (as another poster said, he's my #1-#10) that he is head and shoulders above everybody else reasonably attainable. To put it bluntly, when in the history of college basketball will an already-accomplished Hall of Fame coach be potentially available AND willing to come to Georgetown? Basically, never except now. And who knows, maybe Pitino would say no, but you have to try. Rick Pitino likely would provide the best shot in our lifetimes to win another championship. How on Earth do you turn that down in the context of where we are now?

Beyond that, Chris Mack is a pretty obvious choice. Again, I did not follow him closely enough at Louisville to know what happened there, but he had sustained, long-term success with Xavier and in the Big East. That's pretty top notch.

Beyond these two, you're left with people who are retired and out of the college game, and unlikely to come (Beilein) or pie-in-the-sky types like Kelvin Sampson (who would be an amazing hire). In my mind, you basically take a shot at the two above, and only when they turn you down do you move on to the next rung of coaches, which then includes people like Richard Pitino, and some of the other mid-major up and comers (but there just aren't many right now), and only then, assistants like Mike Jones.

To me, the one category of people who shouldn't be under consideration unless we got desperate would be the proven-mediocre but not good head coaches like Amaker, Dawkins, etc. Choosing somebody like that would be an improvement on our current situation, but not a sign that we want to compete for the top half of the NCAA tournament. It has been great to see other Big East programs make bold hires like Miller at Xavier or Smart at Marquette. I only wish Georgetown had the same will to succeed.

Here goes the broken record again but Smart & Miller knew what they were going to get @ Marquette & Xavier which was competency, stability and a desire to be great.

Unfortunately the same can't be said about Gtowns administration for a very long time now.

Until that's fixed it won't be an attractive or desireable job to any top coaching candidates just like it wasn't after JT3 was fired...

[calhoya]

Kelvin Sampson has a longer shelf life than a Pitino. He is a proven coach and despite some of his missteps in the past, has seemingly run a clean program at Houston. Given the nature of the Hoya job including resources, the recruiting area and the exposure, I would not assume that a proven coach from a more successful program would not come here. Lincoln Riley left Oklahoma and its future SEC conference for USC in what was then the struggling Pac 12. It's about opportunity and growth potential. Many coaches who would not want to succeed a Big John would probably jump at the chance to come to the Hilltop now. The bar is low and expectations low and attendance minimal. There is only one direction to go and it would seemingly be a very attractive proposition.

[alleninxis]

This is less pie in the sky and more realistic - but on the topic of Mike Jones:

Mike Young is only making 2.5m. His buyout is just 1 million. Why he is with Jones in tow as AHC not an option? One of the best and most genuine people in the business and can coach his ass off. He's 59 - he has a runway of 6-8 years and if all goes well, hand it off to Jones when he's 55/56 years old. In fact, you could bring that entire staff (Christian Webster has DMV ties) and prior mentioned assistant Giltner will get a HC job in the CAA or at that level soon enough.

He might be a person who'd rather just stay in rural Virginia instead of coming up to the big city, but to me that would be an inspired and clearly thought out plan that connects a lot of dots.

[trillesthoya]

A few thoughts on some of the names being mentioned: 

• Levelle Moton - If this were 2017 again, maybe, but he hasn’t accomplished much since Covid. 
• Mike Jones - As others have noted, it’s highly atypical to hire an external assistant coach with zero college head coaching experience. 
• Drew Valentine - this season has been disastrous for Loyola, hard pass.
• Grant McCasland - Good coach that’s overdue for a HM gig, but zero connections to the east coach which to me is important. 
• Kim English - Hasn’t proven himself yet, though GMU is on a good trajectory this season. Just hasn’t done enough to me to say he is a sure fire success. 
• Robert Jones - Definitely someone to watch this season, but not an eye-popping hire. 
• Jared Grasso - Only real accomplishment so far is beating Boeheim once. Hasn’t done enough yet.  
• Matt Langel - Definitely going to get a high major gig soon, has been dominant in Patriot League for some time now. Still pretty young, and Ivy League background too which would make the admin feel warm and cozy. I feel like he’s a better fit at Syracuse personally, and wouldn’t be surprised if he holds out for Jimmy B to step down. 
• Dana Ford - Very uninspiring hire with no east coast connect. 
• Ryan Odom - Not the most exciting hire, but I could be talked into it. 
• Anthony Grant - Definitely a floor raiser. His offense is very boring but we would be good again and he can certainly recruit. I have been told he is way more likely to retire than leave Dayton though. 

In total, a lot of just okay options, none of which are guaranteed to succeed. The names to me that make the most sense are either of the Pitinos, Chris Mack, John Beilein or Mike Boynton in no order. I don’t know if either of Mack or Beilein will return to coaching, or if Boynton would leave OK State. I think either of the Pitinos will jump at the job if we are actually interested, which is why they are number 1 and 2 for me in terms of realistic options that we know will be a significant improvement. 

[iowa80]

Jan 3, 2023 16:00:53 GMT -5 calhoya said:

Kelvin Sampson has a longer shelf life than a Pitino. He is a proven coach and despite some of his missteps in the past, has seemingly run a clean program at Houston. Given the nature of the Hoya job including resources, the recruiting area and the exposure, I would not assume that a proven coach from a more successful program would not come here. Lincoln Riley left Oklahoma and its future SEC conference for USC in what was then the struggling Pac 12. It's about opportunity and growth potential. Many coaches who would not want to succeed a Big John would probably jump at the chance to come to the Hilltop now. The bar is low and expectations low and attendance minimal. There is only one direction to go and it would seemingly be a very attractive proposition.

Points taken, but I think you are underselling how bad the situation here is and whether it is an attractive proposition at all. I do not see anyone leaving a successful high major program to come here even for a bump in salary.  

[SDHoya]

Jan 3, 2023 15:39:54 GMT -5 EtomicB said:

Jan 3, 2023 14:49:01 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

This. Rick Pitino is so obviously the best choice (as another poster said, he's my #1-#10) that he is head and shoulders above everybody else reasonably attainable. To put it bluntly, when in the history of college basketball will an already-accomplished Hall of Fame coach be potentially available AND willing to come to Georgetown? Basically, never except now. And who knows, maybe Pitino would say no, but you have to try. Rick Pitino likely would provide the best shot in our lifetimes to win another championship. How on Earth do you turn that down in the context of where we are now?

Beyond that, Chris Mack is a pretty obvious choice. Again, I did not follow him closely enough at Louisville to know what happened there, but he had sustained, long-term success with Xavier and in the Big East. That's pretty top notch.

Beyond these two, you're left with people who are retired and out of the college game, and unlikely to come (Beilein) or pie-in-the-sky types like Kelvin Sampson (who would be an amazing hire). In my mind, you basically take a shot at the two above, and only when they turn you down do you move on to the next rung of coaches, which then includes people like Richard Pitino, and some of the other mid-major up and comers (but there just aren't many right now), and only then, assistants like Mike Jones.

To me, the one category of people who shouldn't be under consideration unless we got desperate would be the proven-mediocre but not good head coaches like Amaker, Dawkins, etc. Choosing somebody like that would be an improvement on our current situation, but not a sign that we want to compete for the top half of the NCAA tournament. It has been great to see other Big East programs make bold hires like Miller at Xavier or Smart at Marquette. I only wish Georgetown had the same will to succeed.

Here goes the broken record again but Smart & Miller knew what they were going to get @ Marquette & Xavier which was competency, stability and a desire to be great.

Unfortunately the same can't be said about Gtowns administration for a very long time now.

Until that's fixed it won't be an attractive or desireable job to any top coaching candidates just like it wasn't after JT3 was fired...

As I understand it, after JTIII was fired, we took swings at longshots in Shaka, Mack and Brey (none of whom are Thompson guys as far as I know), before settling on Ewing. Shaka had only been at UT for a couple years and was not ready to move on. Mack was unlikely to move directly from one BE school to another. Brey was coming off the best stretch of his coaching career and wasn't looking to go anywhere. These guys may have in part turned GU down due to a lack of "competency", but likely they just turned it down because they were still comfortable where they were. Obviously, in retrospect, there should have been several more calls to more realistic candidates before settling on Ewing, but admin apparently was sold by the glowing recommendation from Stan van Gundy, and here we are...

Fast forward a few years, and Shaka was basically driven out at UT when a job in his hometown opened up. Miller got canned at Zona, and when his former employer came crawling back it was another case of right place right time. If Marquette and X had gone after big names from major conferences at their peak moments, its likely they would have been turned down too.

A perception of a lack of "competency" or "desire to be great" notwithstanding, there are plenty of coaches who would be jump at the Hoyas job in 2023. Nate Oats, Eric Musselman, Kelvin Sampson, Tommy Lloyd, etc.--are not among them. But similar to how timing worked out for X and Marquette to bring in proven winners in Shaka and Miller, the timing is there for GU to land up with solid hires like Pitino or Mack (who is in a very different place employment wise than he was in 2017) or I'm sure there are others in this vein, so long as admin is willing to make a serious offer. If admin takes a big swing (and miss) at Bill Self and then settles on John Thompson IV, then maybe the conspiracy theorists are on to something. Guess we'll see.

[calhoya]

Jan 3, 2023 16:21:28 GMT -5 iowa80 said:

Jan 3, 2023 16:00:53 GMT -5 calhoya said:

Kelvin Sampson has a longer shelf life than a Pitino. He is a proven coach and despite some of his missteps in the past, has seemingly run a clean program at Houston. Given the nature of the Hoya job including resources, the recruiting area and the exposure, I would not assume that a proven coach from a more successful program would not come here. Lincoln Riley left Oklahoma and its future SEC conference for USC in what was then the struggling Pac 12. It's about opportunity and growth potential. Many coaches who would not want to succeed a Big John would probably jump at the chance to come to the Hilltop now. The bar is low and expectations low and attendance minimal. There is only one direction to go and it would seemingly be a very attractive proposition.

Points taken, but I think you are underselling how bad the situation here is and whether it is an attractive proposition at all. I do not see anyone leaving a successful high major program to come here even for a bump in salary.  

Fair assessment and I would say for the most part you are not getting a successful coach to come here without some mitigating circumstances. For example, the facilities are great. The recruiting region is great. The BE gets a lot of publicity. A coach with an east coast connection (family, bias, etc.) might come. A coach who feels that he has accomplished what he can at his current program could come. Honestly, when a program is as far down as the Hoyas, there's less pressure moving from last in the BE to mid-pack than for a program that is at or near the top of its conference trying to stay there year after year.

As for Richard Pitino, I think it is too soon for him. Through my wife we have some decent connections to the UNM Athletic Department and I believe that he is still enjoying his fast start at New Mexico, with a passionate fan base and playing in a conference that allows him to build a program without getting smothered by Goliaths in the same conference. His struggles at Minnesota were that he could never really compete with the major programs in the Big Ten. A realistic option would be the father for 2-3 years and then the son.

[OmaHoya]

I have not read all 28 pages here, so apologies if this is repetitive.

Did we use a professional search firm before we hired Ewing, or was it all done in house? Because if we have an opening in a couple of months we absolutely should be using a search firm.

[SSHoya]

Jan 3, 2023 16:41:34 GMT -5 OmaHoya said:

I have not read all 28 pages here, so apologies if this is repetitive.

Did we use a professional search firm before we hired Ewing, or was it all done in house? Because if we have an opening in a couple of months we absolutely should be using a search firm.

Theoretically, Korn Ferry but I think that was just for cover.

“A gentleman by the name of Lee Reed is Georgetown’s athletic director, but everyone knew that Thompson Jr. made all big decisions in the athletic department. Even with this search, which got handed over to the Korn Ferry search firm, the names Paul Tagliabue and Big John come up far more often in conversations than Lee Reed. In an era where alignment is the buzzword among coaches, the Hoya Paranoia has boomeranged back to haunt them.”

www.dukebasketballreport.com/2017/4/4/15174484/georgetown-hires-patrick-ewing-will-this-work-college basketball

April 5, 2017 – Basketball legend Patrick Ewing is returning to his alma mater, Georgetown University, to serve as head coach of its men’s basketball team. He was recruited into the position by Korn Ferry. He replaces John Thompson III, the son of Mr. Ewing’s college coach, John Thompson, who was fired after 13 years as head coach.

huntscanlon.com/korn-ferry-recruits-head-basketball-coach-georgetown/

[OmaHoya]

Thanks SS. Let's cross Korn Ferry off the list :-)

[HoyasAreHungry]

Jan 3, 2023 16:26:04 GMT -5 SDHoya said:

Jan 3, 2023 15:39:54 GMT -5 EtomicB said:

Here goes the broken record again but Smart & Miller knew what they were going to get @ Marquette & Xavier which was competency, stability and a desire to be great.

Unfortunately the same can't be said about Gtowns administration for a very long time now.

Until that's fixed it won't be an attractive or desireable job to any top coaching candidates just like it wasn't after JT3 was fired...

As I understand it, after JTIII was fired, we took swings at longshots in Shaka, Mack and Brey (none of whom are Thompson guys as far as I know), before settling on Ewing. Shaka had only been at UT for a couple years and was not ready to move on. Mack was unlikely to move directly from one BE school to another. Brey was coming off the best stretch of his coaching career and wasn't looking to go anywhere. These guys may have in part turned GU down due to a lack of "competency", but likely they just turned it down because they were still comfortable where they were. Obviously, in retrospect, there should have been several more calls to more realistic candidates before settling on Ewing, but admin apparently was sold by the glowing recommendation from Stan van Gundy, and here we are...

Fast forward a few years, and Shaka was basically driven out at UT when a job in his hometown opened up. Miller got canned at Zona, and when his former employer came crawling back it was another case of right place right time. If Marquette and X had gone after big names from major conferences at their peak moments, its likely they would have been turned down too.

A perception of a lack of "competency" or "desire to be great" notwithstanding, there are plenty of coaches who would be jump at the Hoyas job in 2023. Nate Oats, Eric Musselman, Kelvin Sampson, Tommy Lloyd, etc.--are not among them. But similar to how timing worked out for X and Marquette to bring in proven winners in Shaka and Miller, the timing is there for GU to land up with solid hires like Pitino or Mack (who is in a very different place employment wise than he was in 2017) or I'm sure there are others in this vein, so long as admin is willing to make a serious offer. If admin takes a big swing (and miss) at Bill Self and then settles on John Thompson IV, then maybe the conspiracy theorists are on to something. Guess we'll see.

Sadly my understanding is that your understanding is not correct re: those coaches in 2017. Shaka strongly considered. Brey Mack etc not offered. Brey would have walked here from South Bend if offered. Let's not sugar coat the fact the "search" was a sham

[practice]

Jan 3, 2023 15:11:55 GMT -5 playtyler said:

Hard pass on Pitino Sr. and Mack. One is an over-the-hill philanderer cheater and the other is a toxic program killer. I think we need to go with a proven program builder or start with a promising hungry coach on the ascension who will tirelessly work to make us relevant again. There are lots of great established coaches who are currently employed and winning without the Pitino age and Mack baggage. We should check in to see if any of these coaches with East Coast ties stuck in far away jobs might be interested: Eric Musselman, Andy Enfield, Nate Oats, Mike Boynton, Ed Cooley (among others). If we strike out on those, we go with younger coaches who are potential long-term solutions and program builders like Gates!!!, McCasland, Pitino Jr., Medved, English, Odom.

Dumb, Dumber and then Playtyler's take.

Rick Pitino - overall record 817-289 (74%).   BU -- 91-51, Providence -- 42-23, Kentucky -- 219-50, Louisville -- 416-143, Iona -- 47-18.   Not a proven program builder?   

Chris Mack -- 278-133 (68%), Xavier -- 215-97, Louisville 63-36

In what world do you think guys with big jobs and big contracts like Musselman, Enfield, Oats, Boynton and Cooley would leave their jobs for Georgetown?  Georgetown is a dumpster fire.   It's been on fire for 8 years and you want to then consider unproven guys and what give them 3 or 4 years to build a program?

In terms of philandering, I think Georgetown has lost its credibility on this either at the Gold Club or with JT2's open relationships with staff.   

To paraphrase Rick Pitino, "Ed Cooley is not walking through that door.  Nate Oates is not walking through that door.  Dennis Gates is not walking through that door."  

With Pitino we are back in the NCAAs the first year and likely making the 2nd weekend.  

[hoyasaxa2003]

Jan 3, 2023 16:00:53 GMT -5 calhoya said:

Kelvin Sampson has a longer shelf life than a Pitino. He is a proven coach and despite some of his missteps in the past, has seemingly run a clean program at Houston. Given the nature of the Hoya job including resources, the recruiting area and the exposure, I would not assume that a proven coach from a more successful program would not come here. Lincoln Riley left Oklahoma and its future SEC conference for USC in what was then the struggling Pac 12. It's about opportunity and growth potential. Many coaches who would not want to succeed a Big John would probably jump at the chance to come to the Hilltop now. The bar is low and expectations low and attendance minimal. There is only one direction to go and it would seemingly be a very attractive proposition.

Notably, Sampson's recruiting violations are not only old at this history, but because of rule changes they wouldn't even be violations anymore (much can be said for certain of the Louisville violations under Pitino too). I would choose Sampson in a heartbeat. He's an amazing coach with a long track record of success. He drastically turned around Houston and that was before the transfer portal era. His first team there was very bad (214), but in four years he had a team ranked 18th, and it's been steady top 20 material since then. And he was a great coach at Oklahoma too.

While any search should try for those people, they are long shots. Sampson has been at Houston for nine seasons, and they are joining the Big 12 soon, which is an amazing basketball conference. At this point, given what Sampson has built, and given that Houston will be in the Big 12, I think that's simply a better job than ours right now at the age of 67? It's different for Pitino because he's 70, but not in a multi-bid league. But, Sampson will have that, and can cap off his career in the Big 12.

I've seen a lot of people say things like, "well, there are other guys out there who are willing to come to Georgetown." In my mind, the follow up always needs to be, who? The fact is that because of market dynamics, there simply aren't a ton of good proven head coaches out there who have turned around programs. There are a handful like McAsland, but many of the people listed on this thread are either unrealistic because they are in better jobs already, or they simply aren't that good or proven yet (Kim English, for example).

The fact is that, right now, no coach in their right mind would consider Georgetown's job if they didn't have warts, or if they weren't moving up a level. As someone else pointed out, the reason Marquette got Shaka Smart and Xavier Sean Miller is because of timing, but it also required the schools to act, too. If Georgetown was Xavier last season, they likely would have just kept Travis Steele around (after all, he wasn't that good but also not horrible either).

Coaching changes always require some element of luck. Who is available, etc. Georgetown taking shots at Brey or Smart in 2017 was like me trying to call Lebron James to come play pickup with me. Maybe fanciful, but if that's your search, you're not operating in the realm of reality.

It just so happens that this year, the best guys out there are Pitino and Mack. And they have warts on their record. Without Pitino's problems, he'd likely still be coaching at Louisville (as would Mack, for that matter). I can respect the opinion of someone who is concerned about both of their past problems, but that only holds water when someone is consistent. You cannot knock Pitino for his personal foibles, but then give a total and utter pass to others already coaching at our program simply because he's a famous alumnus, and his own weaknesses may be decades ago.

I have no qualms about saying that the state of the program, for me, heightens the desire for those guys. We need to get good, we need to get good fast, and basically there's one guy out there who is clearly capable of doing it with very little downside.

I just think that when you're in a situation where the choices are Pitino/Mack, or some of the guys listed in this thread, like Kim English or Mike Jones, you're comparing apples to oranges.

[prhoya]

With the Fox-BE TV contract up for negotiations in a year or two, I bet the powers that be on both sides would love for Pitino to take over what was supposed to be the main attraction (along with Wright's Villanova) of the Big East, and make it into a college basketball powerhouse again. The strong, BE-leading Georgetown program that was promised by the Thompsons back when with the first contract was signed and was never delivered by the same Thompson family, could now be the main attraction again with Pitino. It is time for Georgetown to give back to the conference instead of taking all that NCAA Tournament free money earned by our conference partners who did make the Tournament.

[SDHoya]

Jan 3, 2023 17:07:51 GMT -5 HoyasAreHungry said:

Jan 3, 2023 16:26:04 GMT -5 SDHoya said:

As I understand it, after JTIII was fired, we took swings at longshots in Shaka, Mack and Brey (none of whom are Thompson guys as far as I know), before settling on Ewing. Shaka had only been at UT for a couple years and was not ready to move on. Mack was unlikely to move directly from one BE school to another. Brey was coming off the best stretch of his coaching career and wasn't looking to go anywhere. These guys may have in part turned GU down due to a lack of "competency", but likely they just turned it down because they were still comfortable where they were. Obviously, in retrospect, there should have been several more calls to more realistic candidates before settling on Ewing, but admin apparently was sold by the glowing recommendation from Stan van Gundy, and here we are...

Fast forward a few years, and Shaka was basically driven out at UT when a job in his hometown opened up. Miller got canned at Zona, and when his former employer came crawling back it was another case of right place right time. If Marquette and X had gone after big names from major conferences at their peak moments, its likely they would have been turned down too.

A perception of a lack of "competency" or "desire to be great" notwithstanding, there are plenty of coaches who would be jump at the Hoyas job in 2023. Nate Oats, Eric Musselman, Kelvin Sampson, Tommy Lloyd, etc.--are not among them. But similar to how timing worked out for X and Marquette to bring in proven winners in Shaka and Miller, the timing is there for GU to land up with solid hires like Pitino or Mack (who is in a very different place employment wise than he was in 2017) or I'm sure there are others in this vein, so long as admin is willing to make a serious offer. If admin takes a big swing (and miss) at Bill Self and then settles on John Thompson IV, then maybe the conspiracy theorists are on to something. Guess we'll see.

Sadly my understanding is that your understanding is not correct re: those coaches in 2017. Shaka strongly considered. Brey Mack etc not offered. Brey would have walked here from South Bend if offered. Let's not sugar coat the fact the "search" was a sham

Granted Pete Thamel doesn't hold the most credibility here, but his contemporaneous, less than glowing re-cap of the search relates:

"Georgetown’s coaching search has been so misguided, ham-handed and naïve that it’s offered a perfect window into just how sideways things are there. The program already has been rebuffed by Texas’s Shaka Smart, Xavier’s Chris Mack and Notre Dame’s Mike Brey. It has kicked the tires on Harvard’s Tommy Amaker, who has privately expressed little interest in dealing with the politics involved. There’s been buzz over the weekend that Georgetown could make another run at Amaker, but it appears that, if there’d been significant mutual interest, something would have materialized long ago. Providence’s Ed Cooley didn’t turn the Hoyas down, per se, but he made it known after the job opened that he didn’t want to go anywhere."

As bungled coaching search continues, Georgetown operates with no plan

[EtomicB]

Jan 3, 2023 16:26:04 GMT -5 SDHoya said:

Jan 3, 2023 15:39:54 GMT -5 EtomicB said:

Here goes the broken record again but Smart & Miller knew what they were going to get @ Marquette & Xavier which was competency, stability and a desire to be great.

Unfortunately the same can't be said about Gtowns administration for a very long time now.

Until that's fixed it won't be an attractive or desireable job to any top coaching candidates just like it wasn't after JT3 was fired...

As I understand it, after JTIII was fired, we took swings at longshots in Shaka, Mack and Brey (none of whom are Thompson guys as far as I know), before settling on Ewing. Shaka had only been at UT for a couple years and was not ready to move on. Mack was unlikely to move directly from one BE school to another. Brey was coming off the best stretch of his coaching career and wasn't looking to go anywhere. These guys may have in part turned GU down due to a lack of "competency", but likely they just turned it down because they were still comfortable where they were. Obviously, in retrospect, there should have been several more calls to more realistic candidates before settling on Ewing, but admin apparently was sold by the glowing recommendation from Stan van Gundy, and here we are...

Fast forward a few years, and Shaka was basically driven out at UT when a job in his hometown opened up. Miller got canned at Zona, and when his former employer came crawling back it was another case of right place right time. If Marquette and X had gone after big names from major conferences at their peak moments, its likely they would have been turned down too.

A perception of a lack of "competency" or "desire to be great" notwithstanding, there are plenty of coaches who would be jump at the Hoyas job in 2023. Nate Oats, Eric Musselman, Kelvin Sampson, Tommy Lloyd, etc.--are not among them. But similar to how timing worked out for X and Marquette to bring in proven winners in Shaka and Miller, the timing is there for GU to land up with solid hires like Pitino or Mack (who is in a very different place employment wise than he was in 2017) or I'm sure there are others in this vein, so long as admin is willing to make a serious offer. If admin takes a big swing (and miss) at Bill Self and then settles on John Thompson IV, then maybe the conspiracy theorists are on to something. Guess we'll see.

Gtown couldn't even get Amaker interested in the position SD, Imo the talk of Mack or Smart or Brey was all about trying to drum up interest.

A good program doesn't swing & miss on top candidates & then end up with a coach without head coaching or college experience.

If by some terrible miracle, it does happen that way a good program doesn't then allow this inexperienced coach to assemble the 1st staff PE ended up with..

A good program doesn't extend a coach off of a 4 game run tourney run regardless of how great it was or keep him after a winless conference season..

I could go on & on but I'm sure you get the point..

[Buckets]

If we’re calling Kelvin Sampson and Nate Oats, we should at least see if Steve Kerr and Erik Spoelstra are up for a new challenge, too.

[SDHoya]

Jan 3, 2023 17:30:47 GMT -5 EtomicB said:

Jan 3, 2023 16:26:04 GMT -5 SDHoya said:

As I understand it, after JTIII was fired, we took swings at longshots in Shaka, Mack and Brey (none of whom are Thompson guys as far as I know), before settling on Ewing. Shaka had only been at UT for a couple years and was not ready to move on. Mack was unlikely to move directly from one BE school to another. Brey was coming off the best stretch of his coaching career and wasn't looking to go anywhere. These guys may have in part turned GU down due to a lack of "competency", but likely they just turned it down because they were still comfortable where they were. Obviously, in retrospect, there should have been several more calls to more realistic candidates before settling on Ewing, but admin apparently was sold by the glowing recommendation from Stan van Gundy, and here we are...

Fast forward a few years, and Shaka was basically driven out at UT when a job in his hometown opened up. Miller got canned at Zona, and when his former employer came crawling back it was another case of right place right time. If Marquette and X had gone after big names from major conferences at their peak moments, its likely they would have been turned down too.

A perception of a lack of "competency" or "desire to be great" notwithstanding, there are plenty of coaches who would be jump at the Hoyas job in 2023. Nate Oats, Eric Musselman, Kelvin Sampson, Tommy Lloyd, etc.--are not among them. But similar to how timing worked out for X and Marquette to bring in proven winners in Shaka and Miller, the timing is there for GU to land up with solid hires like Pitino or Mack (who is in a very different place employment wise than he was in 2017) or I'm sure there are others in this vein, so long as admin is willing to make a serious offer. If admin takes a big swing (and miss) at Bill Self and then settles on John Thompson IV, then maybe the conspiracy theorists are on to something. Guess we'll see.

Gtown couldn't even get Amaker interested in the position SD, Imo the talk of Mack or Smart or Brey was all about trying to drum up interest.

A good program doesn't swing & miss on top candidates & then end up with a coach without head coaching or college experience.

If it did by some terrible miracle it does happen that way a good program doesn't then allow this inexperienced coach to assemble the 1st staff PE ended up with..

A good program doesn't extend a coach off of a 4 game run touney run regardless of how great it was or keep him after a winless conference season..

I could go on & on but I'm sure you get the point..

Etomic--the last 5+ years speak for themselves. None of that means that if the admin is committed to moving forward and returning to competitiveness, that someone like Pitino or Mack, who no doubt have chips on their respective shoulders, wouldn't be on the Hilltop in a heartbeat. We'll find out soon enough if they are.

[hoyasaxa2003]

Jan 3, 2023 17:30:45 GMT -5 SDHoya said:

Jan 3, 2023 17:07:51 GMT -5 HoyasAreHungry said:

Sadly my understanding is that your understanding is not correct re: those coaches in 2017. Shaka strongly considered. Brey Mack etc not offered. Brey would have walked here from South Bend if offered. Let's not sugar coat the fact the "search" was a sham

Granted Pete Thamel doesn't hold the most credibility here, but his contemporaneous, less than glowing re-cap of the search relates:

"Georgetown’s coaching search has been so misguided, ham-handed and naïve that it’s offered a perfect window into just how sideways things are there. The program already has been rebuffed by Texas’s Shaka Smart, Xavier’s Chris Mack and Notre Dame’s Mike Brey. It has kicked the tires on Harvard’s Tommy Amaker, who has privately expressed little interest in dealing with the politics involved. There’s been buzz over the weekend that Georgetown could make another run at Amaker, but it appears that, if there’d been significant mutual interest, something would have materialized long ago. Providence’s Ed Cooley didn’t turn the Hoyas down, per se, but he made it known after the job opened that he didn’t want to go anywhere."

As bungled coaching search continues, Georgetown operates with no plan

I think it is simultaneously true that (a) in 2017, I don't think we really tried to bring in anyone legitimate for an interview who was actually qualified, but (b) in 2017 nobody in their right mind would have wanted to come and deal with John Thompson right after his son was fired. That's not an issue this time if DeGioia does the right thing and gets rid of Ronny. John Thompson at least built the program and deserved respect; Ronny is not even in the same stratosphere.