drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Dec 28, 2022 15:01:27 GMT -5
I'm just afraid that we will settle for a retread college coach who maybe once was good but is well past his prime. Unless his name is Rick Pitino I have no problem getting a lower level D1 or Junior College or yes even a dynamic high school coach like Nickens if he has a record of success and understands what it means to develop a basketball program that reflects the ethos of the University.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Dec 28, 2022 15:24:43 GMT -5
Some of this discussion about Ronny Thompson is a little off the rails. He reports to the head coach, not the University President. Ronny doesn’t report to the head coach. Ronny is in the Thompson chair. Remember that, until this year, he wasn’t listed in the Basketball directory. Once all the outside “What does Ronny do” chatter started, that’s when his position was listed. GU, or should I say DeGioia, hates the noise. When he was part of the TV crew for AAC (or whatever) games at the same time GU was playing at home, do you think Ronny cleared it with Pat or JD? It’s his family’s business. We’re going to need a president representing the university’s best interests to change this. Ronny reports only to Big John’s ghost and the bank with his check. |
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hoyajmw
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Post by hoyajmw on Dec 28, 2022 15:29:51 GMT -5
I do not understand this "now or never" mentality. So, if the Hoyas get better in 2023-2024, that will be okay...but if it happens in say, 2026-2027, then it will be "too late" and ___ will have happened? I know of zero support for that proposition. Let me explain my concern. College athletics is increasingly concentrated/concentrating, as are the TV money and NIL opportunities involved with associated impact on recruiting and on program profile/prominence. Today's Power 5 may well be the Power 3 within a few years, and schools without a large, local fan base I fear will increasingly find it hard to compete in that market. Now, it may be possible for the right coach and a little old fashioned luck to allow a school like ours to emerge as the plucky "Little Engine that Could" but I think the longer one is a "have not" (especially a small school without a fervent and loyal local fan base) the harder it will be to become a "have" again. I think the rather slow but now accelerating decline of the Big East smaller schools is sort of the canary in the coal mine along these lines, and of course USC and UCLA joining the Big Ten is a further indicator of what the future may hold. (Not so) funny story along those lines: Right after the "new" Big East was (re)formed, with Fox TV money behind it, there was a donor dinner at which JT3 said a Fox Exec had told him "'the future of college basketball as we have known it depends on the success of this "new" Big East, and the success of the "new" Big East depends on Georgetown.' So no pressure" (JT3 rather wryly concluded). Now, it turns out Villanova became what Fox thought GU would be (which still honks us all off), but I fear even that bittersweet liferaft is about to run out of buoyancy. So it may not be exactly "now or never" but I think "now or really, really hard and much more unlikely down the road" isn't an unreasonable concern to have... |
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hoya73
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Post by hoya73 on Dec 28, 2022 15:43:19 GMT -5
I'd imagine many of them aspire to NBA jobs, but there are some intriguing young coaches in the G League gleague.nba.com/coaches |
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TC
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Post by TC on Dec 28, 2022 16:04:44 GMT -5
I'd imagine many of them aspire to NBA jobs, but there are some intriguing young coaches in the G League gleague.nba.com/coachesThat is the worst idea ever. NBA or G league coaching has very little similarity to college as we've learned over the past 5.5 years. We need someone who has college coaching experience and understands the assignment. |
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Dec 28, 2022 16:27:45 GMT -5
Agreed, there are many good coaches in the G league, but one of the important takeaways from the Ewing experiment MUST be that there is so much more to being a good college basketball coach than just coaching basketball. You have to wear so many hats. You have build relationships with high school and AAU coaches. You have to solicit and manage donors, even more so in the NIL era. You need to have a strong network to draw on for assistants and support staff. And you need to be an elite salesman to sell yourself, your program and your university to prospective athletes.
Being a good coach at the professional level is about actual basketball coaching; being a good college basketball coach is more about program management and salesmanship. It's apples to oranges. When we hired Pat we told ourselves that his resume as an actual basketball coach was sufficient, and that literally just being Patrick Ewing, Hall of Famer, sold itself, and therefore the fact that Patrick is a poor salesman wouldn't matter. But that was wrong. And we can't make that mistake again. We MUST have someone who is experienced at the particular job of NCAA Division 1 Men's Basketball coach.
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hoya9797
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Post by hoya9797 on Dec 28, 2022 16:53:58 GMT -5
Agreed, there are many good coaches in the G league, but one of the important takeaways from the Ewing experiment MUST be that there is so much more to being a good college basketball coach than just coaching basketball. You have to wear so many hats. You have build relationships with high school and AAU coaches. You have to solicit and manage donors, even more so in the NIL era. You need to have a strong network to draw on for assistants and support staff. And you need to be an elite salesman to sell yourself, your program and your university to prospective athletes. Being a good coach at the professional level is about actual basketball coaching; being a good college basketball coach is more about program management and salesmanship. It's apples to oranges. When we hired Pat we told ourselves that his resume as an actual basketball coach was sufficient, and that literally just being Patrick Ewing, Hall of Famer, sold itself, and therefore the fact that Patrick is a poor salesman wouldn't matter. But that was wrong. And we can't make that mistake again. We MUST have someone who is experienced at the particular job of NCAA Division 1 Men's Basketball coach. We also found out that Pat Ewing is a terrible basketball coach. He’s not failing because he’s bad at all the other stuff, he’s failing because he doesn’t have a clue how to coach basketball. I agree that we need a guy who knows how to do all the stuff - Rick Pitino - but we really need a guy who, at a basic level, knows how to coach basketball. |
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hoyaguy
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Post by hoyaguy on Dec 28, 2022 16:57:39 GMT -5
Agreed, there are many good coaches in the G league, but one of the important takeaways from the Ewing experiment MUST be that there is so much more to being a good college basketball coach than just coaching basketball. You have to wear so many hats. You have build relationships with high school and AAU coaches. You have to solicit and manage donors, even more so in the NIL era. You need to have a strong network to draw on for assistants and support staff. And you need to be an elite salesman to sell yourself, your program and your university to prospective athletes. Being a good coach at the professional level is about actual basketball coaching; being a good college basketball coach is more about program management and salesmanship. It's apples to oranges. When we hired Pat we told ourselves that his resume as an actual basketball coach was sufficient, and that literally just being Patrick Ewing, Hall of Famer, sold itself, and therefore the fact that Patrick is a poor salesman wouldn't matter. But that was wrong. And we can't make that mistake again. We MUST have someone who is experienced at the particular job of NCAA Division 1 Men's Basketball coach. We also found out that Pat Ewing is a terrible basketball coach. He’s not failing because he’s bad at all the other stuff, he’s failing because he doesn’t have a clue how to coach basketball. I agree that we need a guy who knows how to do all the stuff - Rick Pitino - but we really need a guy who, at a basic level, knows how to coach basketball. An improvement could literally be made by hiring a elementary school coach who emphasizes sound fundamentals and most importantly is willing to learn and be a student of the game, something Ewing seems hell bent on not doing. |
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Post by trillesthoya on Dec 28, 2022 17:08:52 GMT -5
I can’t believe we’re even discussing this. No high major in their right mind would ever hire a G-league, JUCO or high school coach. The vast majority of mid-majors wouldn’t even consider that. Why on earth do people want this program to be run like succeeding in college basketball is like winning the lottery where you have to take insane gambles on to win? It is very simple, especially when you have the resources Georgetown has. Hire someone with a proven resume coaching at the collegiate level and that is a culture fit for your school. To the extent possible, surrounded them with respected assistant coaches, one of whom can recruit your locality and the other two that can land guys nationally and have done so already in college. Then continue to build relationships with donors and alumni to encourage NIL opportunities for future recruits. This stuff isn’t rocket science.
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bluegray79
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Post by bluegray79 on Dec 28, 2022 17:29:28 GMT -5
Agreed, there are many good coaches in the G league, but one of the important takeaways from the Ewing experiment MUST be that there is so much more to being a good college basketball coach than just coaching basketball. You have to wear so many hats. You have build relationships with high school and AAU coaches. You have to solicit and manage donors, even more so in the NIL era. You need to have a strong network to draw on for assistants and support staff. And you need to be an elite salesman to sell yourself, your program and your university to prospective athletes. Being a good coach at the professional level is about actual basketball coaching; being a good college basketball coach is more about program management and salesmanship. It's apples to oranges. When we hired Pat we told ourselves that his resume as an actual basketball coach was sufficient, and that literally just being Patrick Ewing, Hall of Famer, sold itself, and therefore the fact that Patrick is a poor salesman wouldn't matter. But that was wrong. And we can't make that mistake again. We MUST have someone who is experienced at the particular job of NCAA Division 1 Men's Basketball coach. Agree overall. Yes, being good at the pro level requires you to coach and coach well. Being a good coach at the college level does require many hats, and a few of those hats you can pass on to assistants. Program management and salesmanship will fall to the HC in most every program (though I suspect that Nickleberry may fill the salesman role for PE after PE's name and HOF rep, etc.). I think that your best coaches must be solid or better at the X's & O's, the many facets of communicating, running practices, and the nitty-gritty of "in the huddle" (I admit to getting a little cringy and apprehensive when the "In the Huddle" crew comes to our team at a timeout). The best, top, elite college coaches, of course, do it all well, which I think is the main reason so many here wish we could bring Pitino in. Other coaches may be able to put us on solid footing again, but long term concerns loom for someone new to many of the new hats he is now wearing, and Pitino would do it faster and - despite his record of sketchy and sordid actions, which I believe he has answered and done penance for -- would bring real legitimacy with him. |
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mfk24
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Post by mfk24 on Dec 28, 2022 18:39:25 GMT -5
If we make a change, I prefer to hire someone young and commit to a 5-10 year rebuild. Work on relationships with high schools in DC as well as places like Baltimore and Richmond and beyond. Bring energy and a new look. Give him time to do his thing. No one one this current college basketball landscape should get 10 years to rebuild a program. If they can’t get the program turned around or at least trending up by year 3, then they’re not the right fit. |
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hoyaguy
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Post by hoyaguy on Dec 28, 2022 20:11:44 GMT -5
Gates and Mizzou are up by 12 at the half against #19 Kentucky.... thank goodness we stuck with Ewing
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hoya9797
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Post by hoya9797 on Dec 28, 2022 20:12:46 GMT -5
Gates and Mizzou are up by 12 at the half against #19 Kentucky.... thank goodness we stuck with Ewing Can’t know if he’s any good for at least 8-10 years. |
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hoyaguy
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Post by hoyaguy on Dec 28, 2022 20:42:31 GMT -5
Mizzou and Gates 61 - 47 Kentucky with less than 12 minutes left
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daveg023
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Post by daveg023 on Dec 28, 2022 20:45:52 GMT -5
Let’s get Luke Murray from UConn… if nothing else maybe his famous father will draw a few people to CapOne.
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cas92
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Post by cas92 on Dec 28, 2022 21:07:44 GMT -5
Kentucky's largest deficit thus far this season - Tigers whacking the Wildcats by 21 w/ less than 5 minutes left; Norm Stewart Court in CoMo rockin'.
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hoyaguy
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Post by hoyaguy on Dec 28, 2022 21:51:11 GMT -5
Mizzou smacks Kentucky 89-75 and Kentucky only caught up a bit because mizzou burned time and played a deep bench. Only 3 of gates' players had over 30 minutes on the court (31, 35, 35). (also that is 2 ranked wins for Gates now btw and they are definitely in the top 25 now)
I am all ears to listen to the defenders and I mean that honestly because I am genuinely curious
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hoyaguy
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Post by hoyaguy on Dec 28, 2022 21:51:34 GMT -5
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Dec 29, 2022 4:59:51 GMT -5
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hoyajmw
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Post by hoyajmw on Dec 29, 2022 8:35:29 GMT -5
I can’t believe we’re even discussing this. No high major in their right mind would ever hire a G-league, JUCO or high school coach. The vast majority of mid-majors wouldn’t even consider that. Why on earth do people want this program to be run like succeeding in college basketball is like winning the lottery where you have to take insane gambles on to win? It is very simple, especially when you have the resources Georgetown has. Hire someone with a proven resume coaching at the collegiate level and that is a culture fit for your school. To the extent possible, surrounded them with respected assistant coaches, one of whom can recruit your locality and the other two that can land guys nationally and have done so already in college. Then continue to build relationships with donors and alumni to encourage NIL opportunities for future recruits. This stuff isn’t rocket science. Agreed — but thinking along the lines of such alternatives is what happens when, all things considered — record over long time (both on court and in classrooms), resources, observable and obvious sustained lousy decision making during games, “throw the players under the bus” attitude that is an embarrassment, overall situation — your school has what I think is literally the most poorly performing college basketball coach of all-time. Coaches with worse records — and I know there are many — were in different environments and/or had coaching records pre or post that showed they had coaching chops. I mean, this experience is just beyond the pale and I legitimately can’t think of a comparable, long term fail by a coach, really in any sport at any level at any time (in part because it wouldn’t be allowed to go on where SUCCESS was the expectation and not just “participation.”) |
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