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Post by trillesthoya on Dec 27, 2022 21:06:10 GMT -5
Chris Mack would absolutely take this job. He's only 52 and he's a college lifer, he's going to be coaching at a reasonably high level job again soon. While I am not a fan of his personality, if you presented coaches resumes on paper blindly with no names attached - he's a tough candidate to beat out once you get past Pitino. What Georgetown can't do - and they surely will - is wait and not have their ducks in a row come as early as the 2nd week of March. There is no high major program that should beat you to the punch for a candidate this cycle, you might get turned down- but it can not because you were late to the party. Brey is an upgrade of course but to me, he looks worn down and out of gas. I don't think he's in a spot to pivot and take on a rebuild as someone who isn't a great recruiter. (before anyone says it, no - I actually think the opposite of Pitino's energy right now) It’s difficult for me to dissociate Mack from his immature Xavier teams during the end of the JT3 years (JP Macura cough cough) but there was a stretch where he was probably the second best head coach in the conference. Also, he had some very talented Louisville squads before the wheels fell off. Would probably fit way better at a school like Georgetown and would recruit in this area quite well. Brey would raise the floor back to respectability but would probably be an uninspiring hire. |
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Dec 27, 2022 23:43:22 GMT -5
Since GU probably is going to be in contract negotiations soon, here’s my Christmas gift to our negotiators and those interested in how NCAA basketball contracts are structured. “ Introducing the Mid-Major Madness Coaching Contract Database:” www.midmajormadness.com/platform/amp/2019/11/4/20946421/ncaa-basketball-head-coach-contract-salary-database-mid-major-2019-20The linked article includes a pdf copy of 149 contracts or letters of intent between a school and its head coach. Some highlights of the article: “ Many contracts, though, including ones for mid-major coaches, include additional guarantees for media appearances, public speaking, or through guarantee game revenue.”
“Also note that most contracts include bonuses for appearing in the NCAA Tournament or NIT, winning the conference championship (both regular season and tournament), and having strong academic performance (and an APR that keeps the school eligible for postseason play).“
“In addition to compensation, contracts include buyouts, both on the team and coach side. These clauses are the bread and butter of the coaching carousel each April, especially for successful mid-major programs. But, because of how complicated they are, we have not moved any of those clauses into the overall spreadsheet.”
“The coaching contracts we received also help demonstrate a school’s expectations and commitment to its men’s basketball program. Most head coaching contracts outline not just what the coach will receive, but his ability to pay assistants, host summer camps, the required guarantee games, and what postseason appearances are worthy of bonuses.“ Some notable contract clauses: “• UT Martin’s Anthony Stewart receives an automatic four-year extension if he wins more than 50 percent of his games, finishes in the top four of the OVC standings, finishes in the top two in the OVC West standings, or makes the conference semifinals.
• Billy Wright’s contract with Western Illinois requires him to play a third guarantee game every other season in order to fund the salary for the team’s Director of Basketball Operations position.” |
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Dec 28, 2022 0:02:33 GMT -5
According to the 2019-20 database of mid-major contracts, Gonzaga’s Mark Few had the highest base salary at $1.7M. No one else had a base salary higher than $725K.
Considering that Pat’s outrageous and unmerited base salary next year is $4M, GU should be able to hire any of these coaches not named Mark Few.
Interestingly, Rick Pitino’s successful predecessor at Iona had a base salary of $565K in that year.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Dec 28, 2022 9:28:22 GMT -5
Since GU probably is going to be in contract negotiations soon, here’s my Christmas gift to our negotiators and those interested in how NCAA basketball contracts are structured. “ Introducing the Mid-Major Madness Coaching Contract Database:” www.midmajormadness.com/platform/amp/2019/11/4/20946421/ncaa-basketball-head-coach-contract-salary-database-mid-major-2019-20The linked article includes a pdf copy of 149 contracts or letters of intent between a school and its head coach. Some highlights of the article: “ Many contracts, though, including ones for mid-major coaches, include additional guarantees for media appearances, public speaking, or through guarantee game revenue.”
“Also note that most contracts include bonuses for appearing in the NCAA Tournament or NIT, winning the conference championship (both regular season and tournament), and having strong academic performance (and an APR that keeps the school eligible for postseason play).“
“In addition to compensation, contracts include buyouts, both on the team and coach side. These clauses are the bread and butter of the coaching carousel each April, especially for successful mid-major programs. But, because of how complicated they are, we have not moved any of those clauses into the overall spreadsheet.”
“The coaching contracts we received also help demonstrate a school’s expectations and commitment to its men’s basketball program. Most head coaching contracts outline not just what the coach will receive, but his ability to pay assistants, host summer camps, the required guarantee games, and what postseason appearances are worthy of bonuses.“ Some notable contract clauses: “• UT Martin’s Anthony Stewart receives an automatic four-year extension if he wins more than 50 percent of his games, finishes in the top four of the OVC standings, finishes in the top two in the OVC West standings, or makes the conference semifinals.
• Billy Wright’s contract with Western Illinois requires him to play a third guarantee game every other season in order to fund the salary for the team’s Director of Basketball Operations position.” This is interesting, thanks for sharing! My only caution would be that from an analogy perspetive, this includes coaches from conferences like MEAC that are decidely not mid-majors, but really low-majors, if there is such a thing. A school like Iona is really on a different plain of competitiveness than MEAC, for example. |
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Dec 28, 2022 10:30:58 GMT -5
Whether it’s MEAC, mid-majors or high-majors, the structure of the contracts should be very similar. For example, among the many things that I found interesting, other than that with our budget we can get anyone we want, is the standard practice of having buy-out clauses for both sides. How a school like Georgetown didn’t include buy-out clauses in its contract with JT3 and Pat is negligent. The only explanation is that the negotiation was between friends & family, and someone else other than the friends & family was paying for it. Georgetown got Falked.
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hoyaguy
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Post by hoyaguy on Dec 28, 2022 10:37:10 GMT -5
Whether it’s MEAC, mid-majors or high-majors, the structure of the contracts should be very similar. For example, among the many things that I found interesting, other than that with our budget we can get anyone we want, is the standard practice of having buy-out clauses for both sides. How a school like Georgetown didn’t include buy-out clauses in its contract with JT3 and Pat is negligent. The only explanation is that the negotiation was between friends & family, and someone else other than the friends & family was paying for it. Georgetown got Falked. Exactly it’s insane negligence by Jack to allow a long term extension with a massive salary without a buyout. If I was one of the big donors I’d be fuming at the dumbassery in Healy and the tac |
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Dec 28, 2022 10:45:17 GMT -5
I've thought Mike Brey was worth a look for a long time. I do not believe he truly turned us down last time, just as I don't think Chris Mack turned us down last time, I think that was posturing from agents. Brey is your quintessential "high floor, low ceiling" candidate. Is he going to come to Georgetown and land a bunch of 5 star recruits and take the country by storm? No. But you know what you're getting--a competent, high major caliber basketball coach. We know he is a good enough coach, and we know he's a pretty decent recruiter in the DC area. With the right staff he could land pretty good talent and get us back to the tournament, but probably not back in the Top 10. He is getting up there in age--could fellow DeMatha guy Mike Jones come along as associate HC and potential successor if things go well after a few years?
He wouldn't be my first choice, but there are certainly worse options.
Chris Mack I think is a good option too. I know many of us didn't like him or his teams when he was at Xavier, but he's a pretty good coach. Prior to leaving the Big East I would have certainly said he's a better coach than Willard, who is doing a nice job in our backyard. Could Mack come in, hire a strong recruiting staff and right the ship within a year or two? I didn't closely follow how it all fell apart for him at Louisville, but on the surface he seems like a pretty good option.
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Post by practice on Dec 28, 2022 10:54:32 GMT -5
Pitino, Chris Mack or John Beilein would be the first three calls I would make ... the program needs a "quick fix" and also needs to target candidates who need a job/are looking for something to do.
Pitino is my #1 through #10 choice -- he's still at the top of his game, he has links to Georgetown and at least Ewing, he will get us to the tournament and beyond potentially immediately or perhaps in one year. He is tarnished -- he needs a job like Georgetown as much as Georgetown needs a coach like him. He's a hall of fame coach who needs redemption ... and another Catholic school has already signed off on him. He will want a clean slate -- everyone will likely go if he's hired. He's 70 years old -- he won't be here for more than 10 years ... more likely 6 to 8 years. There is no better option than Pitino. He's paid the price for recruiting/NCAA missteps in the past. In terms of his personal failures, he's on par with what I know about Patrick Ewing ... both are flawed humans like the rest of us.
Chris Mack would be #11 choice -- but frankly I think Mack will have better options than Georgetown. When he's ready to get back into coaching, I think he'll be the leading candidate for most top jobs. If Georgetown could get him, they should grab him.
Beilein is interesting ... but he's retired and I'm not sure he's looking to coach ... and I'd like to know if he's still active enough and game enough for the job. He was awesome at Michigan and pretty damn good at WVU ... but he might be fully retired.
I can't imagine that guys who have coaching jobs now -- like Mike Young -- would entertain the mess that is Georgetown. We are a mess. Our President has only demonstrated fealty to the Thompson family. Ronny lurks -- not sure DeGioia will greenlight his firing ...
This only works if a big name coach like the three mentioned above are allowed to clean house with coaching and administrators and are given the keys. Half measures like hiring an up and comer and keeping Ronny in place will pretty much guarantee failure. In my dream world, the season ends and DeGioia, Ewing and everyone else are shown the door ... Lee Reed is allowed to do his job and the Jesuits sign off on Pitino.
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Dec 28, 2022 11:05:02 GMT -5
If we make a change, I prefer to hire someone young and commit to a 5-10 year rebuild. Work on relationships with high schools in DC as well as places like Baltimore and Richmond and beyond. Bring energy and a new look. Give him time to do his thing.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Dec 28, 2022 11:10:53 GMT -5
Some of this discussion about Ronny Thompson is a little off the rails. He reports to the head coach, not the University President. lee reed does not deserve a hall pass for MBB nor the credit for mens soccer success. he was very visible in hiring of Ewing. he helped if not led the re-engineering of the coaching staff and player roster this season. hes visible at many of the games. cmon hes the AD for krissakes. at GU its intercollegiate athletics has always been about MBB. and it has been rock bottom for a long stretch of Reed's administration. he receives great protection from the media (as typical GU management with no to little communication to outside world) and healthy compensation. he simply has to be somewhat accountable no matter what. and, for what its worth, one of the other sports with a multi million dollar budget at GU - namely football- is a total disaster and has been for years and years and that is in Reed's bailiwick. Football is a distinctly different discussion, one ignored by most within and outside the University. The problems are fixable but run up against decades of institutional myopia about the sport and a vision of a competitive landscape which is no longer there. |
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Post by practice on Dec 28, 2022 11:15:42 GMT -5
If we make a change, I prefer to hire someone young and commit to a 5-10 year rebuild. Work on relationships with high schools in DC as well as places like Baltimore and Richmond and beyond. Bring energy and a new look. Give him time to do his thing. I think that ship sailed 5 or 6 years ago. That was my hope and dream after JT3 ... and some day in the future I'm all for that ... but right now there is no time for a rebuild ... the program has been in the dumps for 7 or 8 years now ... an immediate turnaround is needed or, I fear, Georgetown turns into DePaul -- which admittedly is a better program today! |
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Post by practice on Dec 28, 2022 11:16:50 GMT -5
Some of this discussion about Ronny Thompson is a little off the rails. He reports to the head coach, not the University President. lee reed does not deserve a hall pass for MBB nor the credit for mens soccer success. he was very visible in hiring of Ewing. he helped if not led the re-engineering of the coaching staff and player roster this season. hes visible at many of the games. cmon hes the AD for krissakes. at GU its intercollegiate athletics has always been about MBB. and it has been rock bottom for a long stretch of Reed's administration. he receives great protection from the media (as typical GU management with no to little communication to outside world) and healthy compensation. he simply has to be somewhat accountable no matter what. and, for what its worth, one of the other sports with a multi million dollar budget at GU - namely football- is a total disaster and has been for years and years and that is in Reed's bailiwick. Football is a distinctly different discussion, one ignored by most within and outside the University. The problems are fixable but run up against decades of institutional myopia about the sport and a vision of a competitive landscape which is no longer there. I am convinced that DFW HOYA is an anagram for Jack DeGioia. |
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Dec 28, 2022 11:22:45 GMT -5
Some of this discussion about Ronny Thompson is a little off the rails. He reports to the head coach, not the University President. Interesting, this has never been reported on to my knowledge. I know Ronny's position has been described as roughly "the Athletic Director for Men's Basketball", and in general the coach reports to the AD and not the other way around. As per usual the arrangement at Georgetown is not transparent. If he reports to the head coach and the head coach is dismissed at some point, is it reasonable to assume that RT goes along with him, just as the other major staff people who are subordinate tot he head coach (ie. assistant coaches) presumably would be let go? |
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Dec 28, 2022 11:31:58 GMT -5
If we make a change, I prefer to hire someone young and commit to a 5-10 year rebuild. Work on relationships with high schools in DC as well as places like Baltimore and Richmond and beyond. Bring energy and a new look. Give him time to do his thing. I agree. However, there is an in-between, and you can find coaches who have had some success and are relatively young and can accelerate a turnaround in much less time than 5–10 years. As an SDSU fan, I keep noticing the job Richard Pitino is doing in turning around a New Mexico program in 1 1/2 years. A mid-major with a solid history that has been on hard times for about 7-8 years-- recruiting to Albuqueque is harder than D.C. He's not the only one out there. Medved at Colorado State--which may end New Mexico's unbeaten streak tonight--is doing a good job turning the program around. Still interested in English at George Mason, although some of the bloom is off that rose. I know that there are others with solid coaching experience who should be considered. Unfortunately, barring a miracle run, the only way Ewing leaves is if the Administration terminates the contract and pays him off or if he can put aside his ego and do what is best for the University that gave him an opportunity no other team, college or pro would. |
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Dec 28, 2022 11:34:31 GMT -5
I am convinced that DFW HOYA is an anagram for Jack DeGioia. University presidents do not post on message boards...though this actually happened with Robert Gates (G'74), former president at Texas A&M: texags.com/forums/5/topics/768382 |
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hoyaguy
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Post by hoyaguy on Dec 28, 2022 12:23:17 GMT -5
I am convinced that DFW HOYA is an anagram for Jack DeGioia. University presidents do not post on message boards...though this actually happened with Robert Gates (G'74), former president at Texas A&M: texags.com/forums/5/topics/768382 |
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hoyajmw
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Post by hoyajmw on Dec 28, 2022 12:38:01 GMT -5
If we make a change, I prefer to hire someone young and commit to a 5-10 year rebuild. Work on relationships with high schools in DC as well as places like Baltimore and Richmond and beyond. Bring energy and a new look. Give him time to do his thing. I think that ship sailed 5 or 6 years ago. That was my hope and dream after JT3 ... and some day in the future I'm all for that ... but right now there is no time for a rebuild ... the program has been in the dumps for 7 or 8 years now ... an immediate turnaround is needed or, I fear, Georgetown turns into DePaul -- which admittedly is a better program today! We ARE DePaul and have been ever since that little dork bench cheerleader got into the game against us a few years ago….That’s why not only do we need a change we need a Pulp Fiction like adrenaline boost to the heart to become relevant again. Incrementalism simply won’t do… |
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Dec 28, 2022 13:27:41 GMT -5
I do not understand this "now or never" mentality. So, if the Hoyas get better in 2023-2024, that will be okay...but if it happens in say, 2026-2027, then it will be "too late" and ___ will have happened? I know of zero support for that proposition.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Dec 28, 2022 13:45:47 GMT -5
Some of this discussion about Ronny Thompson is a little off the rails. He reports to the head coach, not the University President. Ronny doesn’t report to the head coach. Ronny is in the Thompson chair. Remember that, until this year, he wasn’t listed in the Basketball directory. Once all the outside “What does Ronny do” chatter started, that’s when his position was listed. GU, or should I say DeGioia, hates the noise. When he was part of the TV crew for AAC (or whatever) games at the same time GU was playing at home, do you think Ronny cleared it with Pat or JD? It’s his family’s business. We’re going to need a president representing the university’s best interests to change this. |
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Post by practice on Dec 28, 2022 13:47:17 GMT -5
I do not understand this "now or never" mentality. So, if the Hoyas get better in 2023-2024, that will be okay...but if it happens in say, 2026-2027, then it will be "too late" and ___ will have happened? I know of zero support for that proposition. I'd say after we went 0 for the Big East that it reached a crisis. I gave up my season tickets last year and I refuse to go to another Hoyas game until Ewing is gone. I'd jump right back in with a no-name young coach, but the damage is severe and the quicker that G-Town can get back to winning -- and winning for real -- the better. I'm all for the emergency hire. How about a gofundme for a Pitino light over DC? |
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