Head Coaches Discussion

[practice]

Dec 29, 2022 8:35:29 GMT -5 hoyajmw said:

Dec 28, 2022 17:08:52 GMT -5 trillesthoya said:

I can’t believe we’re even discussing this. No high major in their right mind would ever hire a G-league, JUCO or high school coach. The vast majority of mid-majors wouldn’t even consider that. Why on earth do people want this program to be run like succeeding in college basketball is like winning the lottery where you have to take insane gambles on to win? It is very simple, especially when you have the resources Georgetown has. Hire someone with a proven resume coaching at the collegiate level and that is a culture fit for your school. To the extent possible, surrounded them with respected assistant coaches, one of whom can recruit your locality and the other two that can land guys nationally and have done so already in college. Then continue to build relationships with donors and alumni to encourage NIL opportunities for future recruits. This stuff isn’t rocket science.

Agreed — but thinking along the lines of such alternatives is what happens when, all things considered — record over long time (both on court and in classrooms), resources, observable and obvious sustained lousy decision making during games, “throw the players under the bus” attitude that is an embarrassment, overall situation — your school has what I think is literally the most poorly performing college basketball coach of all-time. Coaches with worse records — and I know there are many — were in different environments and/or had coaching records pre or post that showed they had coaching chops. I mean, this experience is just beyond the pale and I legitimately can’t think of a comparable, long term fail by a coach, really in any sport at any level at any time (in part because it wouldn’t be allowed to go on where SUCCESS was the expectation and not just “participation.”)

I wonder if any schools/athletic departments will look at the new basketball landscape -- players transferring probably at least once or more in their career and the NIL stuff -- and break the head coaching job into two positions.  I think a head coach and a general manager position is justified.   Although I think he's also a terrible in-game coach and developer of talent, I think it is clear that managing the roster is a skill that Ewing is TERRIBLE at.   In his defense (!), he started his career at a very difficult time.   Based on what I've seen, I think Ewing would be a failure in the 1970s, 1980s, 1990s, 2000s, 2010s, etc. as a head coach, but the job has gotten much harder in the past couple  of years.    I think the NBA model is worth a look -- although most current college coaches are 1000% control freaks and would likely never concede an inch of power/control to a GM to recruit, to manage transfers, and to ensure that everyone is getting sufficient NIL deals.   I think this would only work with with two new people at a program ... and in the case of G-Town, I still am firmly in the "win now with a proven winner" camp.   It would be interesting to see a school try this model -- and advertise it as a really a pro-style management/coaching operation that will maximize talent for the roster and value for the players in terms of NIL, development, etc.  

[professorhoya]

Dec 29, 2022 9:53:33 GMT -5 practice said:

Dec 29, 2022 8:35:29 GMT -5 hoyajmw said:

Agreed — but thinking along the lines of such alternatives is what happens when, all things considered — record over long time (both on court and in classrooms), resources, observable and obvious sustained lousy decision making during games, “throw the players under the bus” attitude that is an embarrassment, overall situation — your school has what I think is literally the most poorly performing college basketball coach of all-time. Coaches with worse records — and I know there are many — were in different environments and/or had coaching records pre or post that showed they had coaching chops. I mean, this experience is just beyond the pale and I legitimately can’t think of a comparable, long term fail by a coach, really in any sport at any level at any time (in part because it wouldn’t be allowed to go on where SUCCESS was the expectation and not just “participation.”)

I wonder if any schools/athletic departments will look at the new basketball landscape -- players transferring probably at least once or more in their career and the NIL stuff -- and break the head coaching job into two positions.  I think a head coach and a general manager position is justified.   Although I think he's also a terrible in-game coach and developer of talent, I think it is clear that managing the roster is a skill that Ewing is TERRIBLE at.   In his defense (!), he started his career at a very difficult time.   Based on what I've seen, I think Ewing would be a failure in the 1970s, 1980s, 1990s, 2000s, 2010s, etc. as a head coach, but the job has gotten much harder in the past couple  of years.    I think the NBA model is worth a look -- although most current college coaches are 1000% control freaks and would likely never concede an inch of power/control to a GM to recruit, to manage transfers, and to ensure that everyone is getting sufficient NIL deals.   I think this would only work with with two new people at a program ... and in the case of G-Town, I still am firmly in the "win now with a proven winner" camp.   It would be interesting to see a school try this model -- and advertise it as a really a pro-style management/coaching operation that will maximize talent for the roster and value for the players in terms of NIL, development, etc.  

This is actually a good idea.
Once the players have contracts and the teams have salary cap a GM will be needed.
This will come very soon as the expansion to 16 team football playoff will ignite the call for shared profits (and salaries) between the players and NCAA.

[CTHoya08]

I suspect something similar to this already exists at some programs, where the head coach is in charge of recruiting and other aspects of running the program but puts a trusted assistant in charge of Xs and Os, etc. But it’s probably not something that anyone is bragging about, because I can imagine the negative recruiting, a la “Coach X is a figurehead—assistant Y runs the team.” Actually affirmatively splitting up the responsibilities might be better than doing it informally.

[professorhoya]

Dec 29, 2022 11:21:09 GMT -5 CTHoya08 said:

I suspect something similar to this already exists at some programs, where the head coach is in charge of recruiting and other aspects of running the program but puts a trusted assistant in charge of Xs and Os, etc. But it’s probably not something that anyone is bragging about, because I can imagine the negative recruiting, a la “Coach X is a figurehead—assistant Y runs the team.” Actually affirmatively splitting up the responsibilities might be better than doing it informally.

Fred Hoiberg seems to do this.
The one armed assistant draws up all the plays and is vocal during the game while Hoiberg just stands there on the sideline.

[hoyaboya]

Dec 29, 2022 11:21:09 GMT -5 CTHoya08 said:

I suspect something similar to this already exists at some programs, where the head coach is in charge of recruiting and other aspects of running the program but puts a trusted assistant in charge of Xs and Os, etc. But it’s probably not something that anyone is bragging about, because I can imagine the negative recruiting, a la “Coach X is a figurehead—assistant Y runs the team.” Actually affirmatively splitting up the responsibilities might be better than doing it informally.

This is essentially already occurring at most schools and is even in place at Georgetown - that's why Nickelberry is "Director of Recruiting" or whatever they've called it in addition to being Assistant Coach. He's definitely the point man on player acquisition/"NIL". Ronny Thompson is in charge of most of the day-to-day operations, including scheduling. Ewing is essentially a figurehead who gets involved with the Xs/Os but isn't good at anything, as others have discussed. For this we're paying him $16M over the next 4 years. Brilliant!

[trillesthoya]

My new greatest fear is both of Georgetown and St. John’s open up after this season and Pitino picks them over us because the admin tries to force Ronny onto him.

[hoyajmw]

Dec 29, 2022 11:21:09 GMT -5 CTHoya08 said:

I suspect something similar to this already exists at some programs, where the head coach is in charge of recruiting and other aspects of running the program but puts a trusted assistant in charge of Xs and Os, etc. But it’s probably not something that anyone is bragging about, because I can imagine the negative recruiting, a la “Coach X is a figurehead—assistant Y runs the team.” Actually affirmatively splitting up the responsibilities might be better than doing it informally.

As I recall, this is basically what Al McGuire did successfully at Marquette. He was the recruiter/“name” but during games his assistant (Rick Majerus?) handled Xs and Os. I think Al thought he wasn’t as good at it/was better at dealing with player personalities and made no secret about who was handling the chalkboard during games. Worked out pretty well, for all concerned…

[104pleasant]

With all this talk and speculation about Pitino becoming coach at Georgetown you should not lose sight of the fact that the other Pitino, Richard Pitino is 13 wins and 0: losses this season as the head coach at University of New Mexico.

Richard had limited success at University of Minnesota making the NCAA Tourney 2 of his 7 years at Minny while winning 53% of his games.

Richard is now, a bit more experienced at 40 years old , in his second season at New Mexico where he is currently 13 wins and zero losses.

IMO Richard Pitino merits consideration as Georgetown’s new head coach.

[hoyaboya]

Dec 29, 2022 22:41:13 GMT -5 104pleasant said:

With all this talk and speculation about Pitino becoming coach at Georgetown you should not lose sight of the fact that the other Pitino, Richard Pitino is 13 wins and 0: losses this season as the head coach at University of New Mexico.

Richard had limited success at University of Minnesota making the NCAA Tourney 2 of his 7 years at Minny while winning 53% of his games.

Richard is now, a bit more experienced at 40 years old , in his second season at New Mexico where he is currently 13 wins and zero losses.

IMO Richard Pitino merits consideration as Georgetown’s new head coach.

Rick Pitino for 3-4 years followed by Richard taking over would be fine with me.

[mfk24]

Dec 29, 2022 22:41:13 GMT -5 104pleasant said:

With all this talk and speculation about Pitino becoming coach at Georgetown you should not lose sight of the fact that the other Pitino, Richard Pitino is 13 wins and 0: losses this season as the head coach at University of New Mexico.

Richard had limited success at University of Minnesota making the NCAA Tourney 2 of his 7 years at Minny while winning 53% of his games.

Richard is now, a bit more experienced at 40 years old , in his second season at New Mexico where he is currently 13 wins and zero losses.

IMO Richard Pitino merits consideration as Georgetown’s new head coach.

Anyone to get us out of this misery.

[1427hoya]

Who is going to be picking the next head coach?

That’s the million $ question

[3xhoya]

Dec 29, 2022 12:20:57 GMT -5 trillesthoya said:

My new greatest fear is both of Georgetown and St. John’s open up after this season and Pitino picks them over us because the admin tries to force Ronny onto him.

My greatest fear is that Pitino isn’t even a consideration for the University. It is the obvious move to make and national writers have even begun to tweet about him as the person to save the program.

This just means good old Jack will bury his head in the sand and choose Amaker and make up some BS about academic integrity (meanwhile 3 full recruiting classes have left under HIS and Ewing’s watch). The guy has no spine to make a good move:

[hoyazeke]

Dec 30, 2022 5:10:15 GMT -5 3xhoya said:

Dec 29, 2022 12:20:57 GMT -5 trillesthoya said:

My new greatest fear is both of Georgetown and St. John’s open up after this season and Pitino picks them over us because the admin tries to force Ronny onto him.

My greatest fear is that Pitino isn’t even a consideration for the University. It is the obvious move to make and national writers have even begun to tweet about him as the person to save the program.

This just means good old Jack will bury his head in the sand and choose Amaker and make up some BS about academic integrity (meanwhile 3 full recruiting classes have left under HIS and Ewing’s watch). The guy has no spine to make a good move:

At this point I would take Amaker over the current situation.....hell I would take Wojo

[Elvado]

We could not be any worse if Sky King (RIP) were the Coach…

A nod to the old timers.

[madgesiq92]

Dec 30, 2022 6:16:01 GMT -5 hoyazeke said:

Dec 30, 2022 5:10:15 GMT -5 3xhoya said:

My greatest fear is that Pitino isn’t even a consideration for the University. It is the obvious move to make and national writers have even begun to tweet about him as the person to save the program.

This just means good old Jack will bury his head in the sand and choose Amaker and make up some BS about academic integrity (meanwhile 3 full recruiting classes have left under HIS and Ewing’s watch). The guy has no spine to make a good move:

At this point I would take Amaker over the current situation.....hell I would take Wojo

yes. Literally, A wooden cigar store Indian would be an upgrade.

[Elvado]

Dana Stubblefield will never be mistaken for John Wooden or Pete Carril but twice last night DePaul came out of a timeout and ran a “play” for a wide-open layup.

Not sure, but I think that is what “coaches” sometimes do…

[daveg023]

Dec 29, 2022 12:20:57 GMT -5 trillesthoya said:

My new greatest fear is both of Georgetown and St. John’s open up after this season and Pitino picks them over us because the admin tries to force Ronny onto him.

He also lives in NY, so no need to move if SJ’s is an option.

[cas92]

Telling that he's studying (other) games including WBB - likely adopting effective sequences into his own team moving forward.

[hoyaboya]

Dec 30, 2022 5:10:15 GMT -5 3xhoya said:

Dec 29, 2022 12:20:57 GMT -5 trillesthoya said:

My new greatest fear is both of Georgetown and St. John’s open up after this season and Pitino picks them over us because the admin tries to force Ronny onto him.

My greatest fear is that Pitino isn’t even a consideration for the University. It is the obvious move to make and national writers have even begun to tweet about him as the person to save the program.

This just means good old Jack will bury his head in the sand and choose Amaker and make up some BS about academic integrity (meanwhile 3 full recruiting classes have left under HIS and Ewing’s watch). The guy has no spine to make a good move:

People in JD’s circle are tight with Pitino. Among other reasons, this is why Pitino makes so much sense for Georgetown. If JD fires Ewing and is part of the process in choosing Ewing’s successor, Pitino would be a very Georgetown under JD type hire.

[SSHoya]

Not a favored columnist here but a profile of a coach at the other end of the G2 bus line. Blakeney replaced Nickleberry at Howard.

Blakeney’s basketball pedigree is impeccable. He played for Morgan Wootten at DeMatha and for Mike Krzyzewski at Duke — including as a part of Krzyzewski’s first two national championship teams. He coached under Mike Brey and Tommy Amaker before coming to Howard in 2019 after Kevin Nickleberry was fired. Nickleberry had put together a solid group of players but they all transferred when he lost his job, leaving Blakeney to start from scratch.

www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2022/12/30/howard-mens-basketball-kenny-blakeney/