alleninxis
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Post by alleninxis on Mar 7, 2023 10:02:47 GMT -5
I am curious as to what people have expected Cooley to accomplish that he hasn't at PC?
He's not Rick Pitino, nobody is (and I prefer Pitino by a mile over anyone)
But Cooley gives you a really high floor, he's in the prime of his career - he has evolved as coach (no more flex offense). He has recruited to a decent level at PC that would be amplified at Georgetown. I mean, the guy is not exactly working with great rosters during his time there (not even close to what someone like JTIII had most years). I don't know if he breaks through further at Georgetown, but it's certainly possible that he could.
He's been a head coach for 17 years - he's had three losing conference season (Year 1 at Pc 4-14, a bad 7-11 year in '19 and a 9-10 season in the covid year). He gets in the tournament this year, that's effectively a 8-out-of-10 year run in the NCAA's once he got things going by year three. And not for nothing, Boston College absolutely cratered once he left Skinner's staff.
He hasn't won in March - fair. Although he does have a BET Title (and one OT vs Nova away from a second one), and he was in a one possession game with 5:00 to go in the Sweet 16 last year against the eventual national champs. You keep knocking on that door (at an 80% clip), I will take your chances you eventually can get through - especially if you are now working with more talent.
Pitino is my #1, #2, #3 - because I firmly believe a National Title is possible with him by year 3 or 4. Cooley is likely not that, nobody is - but if he's willing to take this job I absolutely think it's a great hire. And his personality is exactly what this decripet program is also in need of.
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daveg023
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Post by daveg023 on Mar 7, 2023 10:13:34 GMT -5
Pitino > Cooley > Anyone else > Ewing... I don't understand the Cooley love as he's not winning titles every year but an upgrade. I agree with that order in terms of just winning basketball games, but I do understand the intangibles Cooley brings to the university and in my mind he's a much better ambassador than Pitino. In terms of Cooley's resume, he won at Fairfield (no one ever has won there) and he's won at PC at a better rate than pretty much every coach who's been there since the BE was formed (Pitino included). I think people are underselling the job he's done there, because he's only made one run to the second weekend in the NCAAT. PC is not that easy a place to win at, and he's done it better than most (granted in a different era of the BE): Coach Tenure Record Conf. Titles BET Titles NCAA Apps. Ed Cooley 2011-Pres 221-141 1 1 6 Keno Davis 2008-11 46-50 0 0 0 Tim Welsh 1998-2008 160-143 0 0 2 Pete Gillen 1994-98 72-53 0 0 1 Rick Barnes 1988-94 108-76 0 0 3 Gordon Chiesa 1987-88 11-17 0 0 0 Rick Pitino 1985-87 42-22 0 0 1
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Mar 7, 2023 10:21:03 GMT -5
Take away two bad years at Louisville and I am not certain why Chris Mack is not getting more mention for the Hoya job. His record certainly compares favorably to Cooley.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by prhoya on Mar 7, 2023 10:22:46 GMT -5
If only Phil Jackson could help DeGioia pick our next coach. Check out his only game as a NBA head coach (interim). We’ve seen that pattern before, right? Of course he thought he was ready... Why Isn't Patrick Ewing Getting a Shot to Coach NY Knicks? June 9, 2014 bleacherreport.com/articles/2088734-why-isnt-patrick-ewing-getting-a-shot-to-coach-ny-knicksPatrick Ewing absolutely and indubitably wants a job as head coach, but his name does not ring out amid the likeliest rumors regarding the New York Knicks' vacancy. Unfortunately for Ewing, his coaching skills do not fit with new team president Phil Jackson's vision for the future, and too many other candidates have distinguished themselves in the opaque sweepstakes for the job. ... Ewing continued: "I’m not sure what is going to happen in terms of who they’re going to have fill that void, but if I get a call, I’m ready." Ewing made his debut as head coach with the Charlotte Bobcats on Nov. 8, 2013 against the Knicks, temporarily sliding over for head coach Steve Clifford, who underwent a procedure to put two stents in his heart just five games into the season. Ewing told reporters after the 101-91 loss, per Marc Berman of the New York Post: "It was nervous at first but once the game started, I was able to calm down and do my thing." The Bobcats trailed by only four at the half, then got outscored 34-22 in the third quarter and trailed by 19 early in the fourth, suggesting Ewing's halftime adjustments fell flat. You can hardly rate a head coach on his very first game, but the results were not encouraging. Also, Charlotte had just beaten the Knicks in New York three days previously. ... Though Ewing would "love" to return to the sideline at Madison Square Garden, he doesn't fit in the current plan, and a whole handful of more suitable names crowd him off the list anyway. Suggesting otherwise merely pays lip service to the New York legend who made the Knicks a perennial contender.
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TC
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Post by TC on Mar 7, 2023 10:26:43 GMT -5
Take away two bad years at Louisville and I am not certain why Chris Mack is not getting more mention for the Hoya job. His record certainly compares favorably to Cooley. No, it really doesn't. Mack took over a 27-8 team at Xavier. Mack took over a 22-14 team at Louisville. Cooley took over a 9-19 team at Fairfield. Cooley took over a 15-17 team at Providence. We have 2 wins in the Big East the last two years. This is a rebuilding job - Mack's never done that. Pitino and Cooley both have. Also, no one is real partial to Mack given how he used us as a contract negotiating ploy in our last search.
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Post by trotters10 on Mar 7, 2023 10:35:36 GMT -5
On the bright side (as a whole), the tea leaves are moving in the direction of us getting one of Pitino or Cooley, either being the best case scenario for us. Debating Pitino over Cooley is a good problem for us to have. This is FAR better than a week ago when we were tossing around names like Mike Brey and James Jones. I still won't believe it's a done deal until it actually is a done deal, but everything is trending in the right direction. THANK GOD!
I still personally would prefer Slick Rick, but I'd be happy as well with Cooley.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 7, 2023 10:42:44 GMT -5
On the bright side (as a whole), the tea leaves are moving in the direction of us getting one of Pitino or Cooley, either being the best case scenario for us. Debating Pitino over Cooley is a good problem for us to have. This is FAR better than a week ago when we were tossing around names like Mike Brey and James Jones. I still won't believe it's a done deal until it actually is a done deal, but everything is trending in the right direction. THANK GOD! I still personally would prefer Slick Rick, but I'd be happy as well with Cooley. True, but I am increasingly worried that DeGioia, under the Thompson influence, will pick someone who is acceptable to Ronny, and keeps that going, to the detriment of our program. I would be thrilled with Pitino, and happy with Cooley. But, otherwise, the person had better be good. That Matt Norlander article couldn't put it more clearly. He interviewed Pitino last week, and then this week says that Georgetown is his most likely/desired landing spot. It's utterly clear Pitino wants to come to Georgetown. Read the tea leaves. My concern is DeGioia isn't going to read them because he's so biased and unlikely to make a decision in the best interests of the program.
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Post by trotters10 on Mar 7, 2023 10:53:47 GMT -5
On the bright side (as a whole), the tea leaves are moving in the direction of us getting one of Pitino or Cooley, either being the best case scenario for us. Debating Pitino over Cooley is a good problem for us to have. This is FAR better than a week ago when we were tossing around names like Mike Brey and James Jones. I still won't believe it's a done deal until it actually is a done deal, but everything is trending in the right direction. THANK GOD! I still personally would prefer Slick Rick, but I'd be happy as well with Cooley. True, but I am increasingly worried that DeGioia, under the Thompson influence, will pick someone who is acceptable to Ronny, and keeps that going, to the detriment of our program. I would be thrilled with Pitino, and happy with Cooley. But, otherwise, the person had better be good. That Matt Norlander article couldn't put it more clearly. He interviewed Pitino last week, and then this week says that Georgetown is his most likely/desired landing spot. It's utterly clear Pitino wants to come to Georgetown. Read the tea leaves. My concern is DeGioia isn't going to read them because he's so biased and unlikely to make a decision in the best interests of the program. I agree on that point. That is my major concern with Cooley, that his affinity for G'Town and Big John will mean that Ronny gets to stay on, no questions asked. Hopefully the donors/boosters (whatever you want to call them) are all over this and are putting serious pressure on Ronny to not be involved anymore. But I will be disappointed if we're hiring a coach (Cooley) so that it's easier to keep Ronny around. That's pathetic if that is Jack's thought process. However, my gut tells me a Cooley hire is a tactical move by Georgetown so as to not disturb our "link to the past". I think that gives Cooley the leg up, unfortunately. Whereas Rick will likely only take the job if a guy like Ronny is not around. This is why I strongly prefer Pitino over Cooley, the fact I think Rick is just a better coach is a minor thing compared to the fact that I know a Pitino hiring almost 100% means Ronny is gone.
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Post by oldhoyafan3 on Mar 7, 2023 11:20:55 GMT -5
Pitino > Cooley > Anyone else > Ewing... I don't understand the Cooley love as he's not winning titles every year but an upgrade. I agree with that order in terms of just winning basketball games, but I do understand the intangibles Cooley brings to the university and in my mind he's a much better ambassador than Pitino. In terms of Cooley's resume, he won at Fairfield (no one ever has won there) and he's won at PC at a better rate than pretty much every coach who's been there since the BE was formed (Pitino included). I think people are underselling the job he's done there, because he's only made one run to the second weekend in the NCAAT. PC is not that easy a place to win at, and he's done it better than most (granted in a different era of the BE): Coach Tenure Record Conf. Titles BET Titles NCAA Apps. Ed Cooley 2011-Pres 221-141 1 1 6 Keno Davis 2008-11 46-50 0 0 0 Tim Welsh 1998-2008 160-143 0 0 2 Pete Gillen 1994-98 72-53 0 0 1 Rick Barnes 1988-94 108-76 0 0 3 Gordon Chiesa 1987-88 11-17 0 0 0 Rick Pitino 1985-87 42-22 0 0 1 Understood. I am willing to look past the indiscretions with Pitino as the guy flat out wins, but I'm not JD. Cooley is a really cool guy who will undoubtedly win here. I just don't think he'd make us elite.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 7, 2023 11:32:42 GMT -5
True, but I am increasingly worried that DeGioia, under the Thompson influence, will pick someone who is acceptable to Ronny, and keeps that going, to the detriment of our program. I would be thrilled with Pitino, and happy with Cooley. But, otherwise, the person had better be good. That Matt Norlander article couldn't put it more clearly. He interviewed Pitino last week, and then this week says that Georgetown is his most likely/desired landing spot. It's utterly clear Pitino wants to come to Georgetown. Read the tea leaves. My concern is DeGioia isn't going to read them because he's so biased and unlikely to make a decision in the best interests of the program. I agree on that point. That is my major concern with Cooley, that his affinity for G'Town and Big John will mean that Ronny gets to stay on, no questions asked. Hopefully the donors/boosters (whatever you want to call them) are all over this and are putting serious pressure on Ronny to not be involved anymore. But I will be disappointed if we're hiring a coach (Cooley) so that it's easier to keep Ronny around. That's pathetic if that is Jack's thought process. However, my gut tells me a Cooley hire is a tactical move by Georgetown so as to not disturb our "link to the past". I think that gives Cooley the leg up, unfortunately. Whereas Rick will likely only take the job if a guy like Ronny is not around. This is why I strongly prefer Pitino over Cooley, the fact I think Rick is just a better coach is a minor thing compared to the fact that I know a Pitino hiring almost 100% means Ronny is gone. I have no doubt Cooley would be way more acceptable to DeGioia than Cooley. I just think up until recently everyone thought there was no way he'd leave Providence, and I still skeptical. The only reason I think it's possible is that I think Georgetown is essentially Cooley's dream job. I think if Cooley was coaching in another major conference, it would be a no brainer and they'd almost certainly try for him as the number 1. Cooley would be great, but I still prefer Pitino because I think he's a better coach overall (Hall of Fame coaches are almost never available, and passing up on one is dumb in my view) and I think he's set the program on a new course. I think Cooley likely would do the same, but maintain connections to the past more (which is why DeGioia would want him). That said, Cooley has coached at Fairfield and Providence for a long time and he knows what he's doing. I highly doubt he'd let a guy like Ronny ruin that, but you never know.
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Post by augustusfinknottle on Mar 7, 2023 11:46:59 GMT -5
Why on earth would you lock in Cooley when Pitino is who everyone wants and supposedly wants to come here. Hmmmm, I wonder.
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on Mar 7, 2023 11:55:27 GMT -5
That said, Cooley has coached at Fairfield and Providence for a long time and he knows what he's doing. I highly doubt he'd let a guy like Ronny ruin that, but you never know. Agree that the Cooley talk is mostly hypothetical--to me, Pitino and Cooley are the two top options, but one of those guys is basically leaking to media people that he's interested and the other feels like a longshot. But if it happened, IMO Cooley is too smart to employ Ronny. He has tremendous respect for JT2 and our program (which, though I know all of us want a break from the Thompson mafia, is a nice thing). But he knows college basketball and he's not going to be so wrapped up in the Thompson legacy that he's going to let the unqualified son continue to run amuck. Cooley is not some impressionable neophyte, he's a career coach who has succeeded at multiple stops and knows college basketball better than any of us. Confident he would do the right thing. Ewing didn't know any better--he didn't know the college game and so he trusted blindly in the Thompson inner circle when putting together a leadership team to run the program. Ed Cooley is too savvy for that. Still think our odds of landing Pitino are much much better though.
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Post by practice on Mar 7, 2023 12:02:10 GMT -5
Kind of interesting that Cooley is under contract at Providence, likely has a buyout, has not uttered one word about wanting to leave Providence, and barring the unforeseen is likely coaching his team in the NCAA tournament with an at-large bid. Providence has a little skid and some no-name bloggers have thrown his name out there ... and we've gone down 10 plus pages on a guy for whom there is not one scintilla of evidence that he is leaving Providence. Kind of bizarre even for Hoyatalk.
Let's face it: Cooley, like about 127,000 other basketball coaches, would be so much better than Ewing. However, its more likely than not that he's not going anywhere, despite a couple of bad Ls to end the season. Let's see if Providence goes 0-2 in the BE tournament and then the NCAAs ... unlikely. They likely will beat UConn in the BE and likely will win at least one game in the NCAAs. This is all a tempest in a teapot.
Meanwhile, Pitino is more likely than not leaving Iona. Let's keep our eyes on the prize.
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hoyaguy
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Post by hoyaguy on Mar 7, 2023 12:03:54 GMT -5
Any coach who comes and retains any of our current staff will not succeed, including Cooley. You don’t keep anything from 0-20 & 2-18. If you do, you’re not our guy. Is Ronny really a part of the coaching staff? What does he do? Is his role "honorary" on some level? Was Ronny retained by Pat or hired by higher ups? Ronny's a good guy standalone but it is something suspect about what's been going on at the Hilltop. Too my knowledge and reports/anonymous sources from within the TAC, he does have an active role in the operations of the program and less of a direct coaching influence. He apparently gets involved with everything at the program being a micromanaging deleted that essentially forced one of the few staffers handpicked by Ewing to leave in the first couple seasons (she was the communications person and I’d imagine she wasn’t a fan of Hoya paranoia in the modern age, shocking that an experienced professional disagreed with the horrible PR strategy they have). And as chief of staff he gets paid very well for being very unqualified for his virtually made up role so it is hypothesized that hiring Ronnie was part of the deal to let JT3 go to appease a certain someone even when deleted stole a player from the program years back (so daddy gave deleted a made up job, funny and fitting that happened at gtown lol). He also allows a hostile work environment to emerge in the athletics department as a whole due to an unprofessional crony staff who treats the other athletics people like garbage because they think they are “more important”. So yeah the “chief of staff” is a deleted
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hoyaguy
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Post by hoyaguy on Mar 7, 2023 12:06:20 GMT -5
If Jack is really willing to pay possibly a bigger buyout than Ewing’s just to get Cooley to fulfill some weirdly crafted wishlist that happens to box out Pitino (who is a much better coach on record) then bravo another genius move.
Still holding faith that Reed might get a real say instead of just having to chime in whenever JD doesn’t want to face the music like an adult
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guru
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Post by guru on Mar 7, 2023 12:17:16 GMT -5
No, on Cooley.
Too easy to maintain the existing Thompson-centric infrastructure if we bring him in. Need to cut those ties once and for all.
Hard pass.
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rhw485
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Post by rhw485 on Mar 7, 2023 12:30:55 GMT -5
That said, Cooley has coached at Fairfield and Providence for a long time and he knows what he's doing. I highly doubt he'd let a guy like Ronny ruin that, but you never know. Agree that the Cooley talk is mostly hypothetical--to me, Pitino and Cooley are the two top options, but one of those guys is basically leaking to media people that he's interested and the other feels like a longshot. But if it happened, IMO Cooley is too smart to employ Ronny. He has tremendous respect for JT2 and our program (which, though I know all of us want a break from the Thompson mafia, is a nice thing). But he knows college basketball and he's not going to be so wrapped up in the Thompson legacy that he's going to let the unqualified son continue to run amuck. Cooley is not some impressionable neophyte, he's a career coach who has succeeded at multiple stops and knows college basketball better than any of us. Confident he would do the right thing. Ewing didn't know any better--he didn't know the college game and so he trusted blindly in the Thompson inner circle when putting together a leadership team to run the program. Ed Cooley is too savvy for that. Still think our odds of landing Pitino are much much better though. Agree with all of this. I dont think there's a real chance Cooley would leave Providence. For me the biggest concern is after Pitino, and then sure keep Cooley on the list, who's practical choice 3? I think there's a list of people everyone knows that feels like non starters (Dawkins, Amaker, Nickelberry etc) but I don't have a #3 I'm super super excited about. Mack was thrown out up page, I think that's fine although I'm not super wild about it. It's hard to ignore the crater at Louisville. Chris Holtmann has been suggested as an escape from Ohio State but meh. I've thrown out Anthony Grant in the past, but we're looking at another year with no bid for Dayton unless they win tourney. I'm terrified Brey will be pitched as the stabilizer when he hasn't coached a decent defense in five years and plays at a tempo equivalent to paint drying. Turning it over to Jones at Va Tech without any head coaching experience feels desperate. Maybe that's why everyone on the board is rallying around Pitino, nothing else feels super viable or exciting.
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thedragon
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Post by thedragon on Mar 7, 2023 12:50:15 GMT -5
Im as anti-Ronny as anyone - but the pre-occupation with him has reached ridiculous proportions. If anyone thinks that if someone like Cooley is hired and would allow someone else to run the machinations of the program - then they arent being realistic. No established coach is giving Ronny any tasks beyond purely administrative. I believe Ronny will move on, but if he doesnt, and we hire a Pitino or Cooley or another long established HC - then worrying about Ronny's role at that point is on the same level as worrying a boogeyman is under your bed.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 7, 2023 12:50:59 GMT -5
Agree that the Cooley talk is mostly hypothetical--to me, Pitino and Cooley are the two top options, but one of those guys is basically leaking to media people that he's interested and the other feels like a longshot. But if it happened, IMO Cooley is too smart to employ Ronny. He has tremendous respect for JT2 and our program (which, though I know all of us want a break from the Thompson mafia, is a nice thing). But he knows college basketball and he's not going to be so wrapped up in the Thompson legacy that he's going to let the unqualified son continue to run amuck. Cooley is not some impressionable neophyte, he's a career coach who has succeeded at multiple stops and knows college basketball better than any of us. Confident he would do the right thing. Ewing didn't know any better--he didn't know the college game and so he trusted blindly in the Thompson inner circle when putting together a leadership team to run the program. Ed Cooley is too savvy for that. Still think our odds of landing Pitino are much much better though. Agree with all of this. I dont think there's a real chance Cooley would leave Providence. For me the biggest concern is after Pitino, and then sure keep Cooley on the list, who's practical choice 3? I think there's a list of people everyone knows that feels like non starters (Dawkins, Amaker, Nickelberry etc) but I don't have a #3 I'm super super excited about. Mack was thrown out up page, I think that's fine although I'm not super wild about it. It's hard to ignore the crater at Louisville. Chris Holtmann has been suggested as an escape from Ohio State but meh. I've thrown out Anthony Grant in the past, but we're looking at another year with no bid for Dayton unless they win tourney. I'm terrified Brey will be pitched as the stabilizer when he hasn't coached a decent defense in five years and plays at a tempo equivalent to paint drying. Turning it over to Jones at Va Tech without any head coaching experience feels desperate. Maybe that's why everyone on the board is rallying around Pitino, nothing else feels super viable or exciting. I feel like as fans, myself included, we are setting ourselves up for disappointment. Pitino could not be more clear that he wants to come here. But, we all know DeGioia likely won't go for it, or will mess it up if he tries, and Cooley likely isn't a realistic option. So instead, we'll end up with Brey or someone equally uninspiring. And then have to convince ourselves that, no, really, that person really is a great choice, even though that person may not be.
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Post by GaithersburgHoya on Mar 7, 2023 12:55:01 GMT -5
I feel like Pitino having no buyout makes him much more likely than Cooley
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