daveg023
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Post by daveg023 on Mar 6, 2023 10:48:39 GMT -5
Thats the thing people are missing. Its not about Xs and Os. In studying some of the great coaches in the college game, they all say its about skills strengthening. Cooley had a great quote. He said in any game, you maybe run 1-2 set plays the whole game, the rest of the time you're defending, dribbling, rebounding and shooting. That's what his team spends about 90% of their time working on along with getting players to recognize their teammates strengths and weaknesses. Coach Pitino has said that players always came to him asking how to get to the league and he said he spends a good deal of time working on skills that the league is looking for (which happens to be shooting, rebounding, ball handling, defending). Coach Bob Knight as we know had a perfect season in the 80s. And his players have said they didn't run offensive sets, they had no playbook or plays, there was no Xs and Os because "systems" could be figured out / solved (Which I think is what hurt JTIII's teams; even still JTIII's teams were successful in-season because as his players have said, they would work on all kinds of skills drills, he had his bigs practicing guard drills; and wasnt there a quote where jeff green said in the beginning he was like "what do we keep practicing this over and over for?" but then he realized that later in the season they became hard to stop). So back to these coaches... they worked incessantly on skill development and getting their players to understand their teammates strengths, weaknesses, likes, and dislikes. Even a guy like james jones has said that they work on skils more than anything...rebounding, defending, sharing the ball EVERYBODY - especially late in the season because its so important. Year before last, I believe Yale led the nation or was near the top in defensive rebounding. thats something they work on religiously. so, to the extent that a coach teaches the game and works on skills thats where you find successful teams more often than not. those skilss can get you out of losing situations. And Kevin Braswell (who is doing a little coaching) made a good point on a GU Basketball facebook post. He said today's game is about "what do you do after the play is run?" he said that's where games are won and lost because nobody's really running plays like that so with his guys they work much more on skills and succeeding in those situations where the play has been diagnosed or figured out. What do you do? Answering that question goes a long way in putting your team in position to be successful. Of course there has to be some kind of base offensive philosophy but.... And what did Dante Harris say was one of the first differences he noticed between UVA and Georgetown? - Bennett’s attention to detail has impressed Harris, who said practices at UVA differ from those he went through at Georgetown. “We do a lot of skill work, and I feel like that’s still important to this day,” he said.Ewing never took the time to understand the importance of skill work at the college level, he just used the pro assumption that the players already had those skills. From good authority I’ve heard the Ewing practices consisted of him sitting in a chair with a whistle. So it’s easy to see why there’s been a lack of coaching or development.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 6, 2023 11:01:43 GMT -5
And what did Dante Harris say was one of the first differences he noticed between UVA and Georgetown? - Bennett’s attention to detail has impressed Harris, who said practices at UVA differ from those he went through at Georgetown. “We do a lot of skill work, and I feel like that’s still important to this day,” he said.Ewing never took the time to understand the importance of skill work at the college level, he just used the pro assumption that the players already had those skills. From good authority I’ve heard the Ewing practices consisted of him sitting in a chair with a whistle. So it’s easy to see why there’s been a lack of coaching or development. I literally cannot recall a single report or instance where there was any indication that Ewing did skill work or emphasized it with our players. I have to think at some point they did, but clearly whatever Ewing did do in practice over the last 6 years was incredibly ineffective.
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RBHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,143
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Post by RBHoya on Mar 6, 2023 11:04:28 GMT -5
I like Cooley, but agree the odds are slim. Don't know anything about a Michigan job offer being turned down, seems like Michigan wouldn't have been in the market at that point. If you were looking to make the case, maybe you point to the fact that PC had their best season in forever last season and didn't make it past the Sweet 16. IMHO, you can easily make the case that last season was the absolute ceiling for that program, and that the ceiling at Georgetown is higher.
Also worth noting, after looking terrible the last few games, there's some chatter that PC is a loss to UConn + a couple of bid stealers winning conference tournaments away from being on the wrong side of the bubble this year. That would bring Cooley to 1 tournament bid in the last 5 seasons (with the COVID year it would have been 2). Not exactly anything to write home about, and you wonder if he has another tough season next year if the honeymoon period there starts to fade. Maybe he takes all that into account and makes the jump before wearing out his welcome.
I don't expect it by any means, but the scenario isn't totally incomprehensible.
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Post by reformation on Mar 6, 2023 11:04:41 GMT -5
The only name (of the seemingly available candidates) that really puts us back in a national discussion is Pitino. Admin has to decide whether that is impt or not.
Cooley is really a BE figure, not a natl figure. I agree that Dawn Staley would also make natl headlines (at least for a news cycle) that but that seems like a total gamble even if she is interested.
If we want to really be at near the top again, we need someone who can recruit elite talent. Doesn't have to be the #1 recruiter in the country but at least some high elite guys with some consistency. Admin has to decide who can do that if they still care.
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Post by augustusfinknottle on Mar 6, 2023 11:28:07 GMT -5
“Still”?
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Mar 6, 2023 12:06:53 GMT -5
I like Cooley, but agree the odds are slim. Don't know anything about a Michigan job offer being turned down, seems like Michigan wouldn't have been in the market at that point. If you were looking to make the case, maybe you point to the fact that PC had their best season in forever last season and didn't make it past the Sweet 16. IMHO, you can easily make the case that last season was the absolute ceiling for that program, and that the ceiling at Georgetown is higher. Also worth noting, after looking terrible the last few games, there's some chatter that PC is a loss to UConn + a couple of bid stealers winning conference tournaments away from being on the wrong side of the bubble this year. That would bring Cooley to 1 tournament bid in the last 5 seasons (with the COVID year it would have been 2). Not exactly anything to write home about, and you wonder if he has another tough season next year if the honeymoon period there starts to fade. Maybe he takes all that into account and makes the jump before wearing out his welcome. I don't expect it by any means, but the scenario isn't totally incomprehensible. The SH game was a bad loss but losing to Uconn & Xavier in very competitive games shouldn’t be considered bad losses. So a possible 21-11(13-7 in conference)season for PC could be argued as a tough year? That seems like a very high bar to me bleacherreport.com/articles/2837355-ed-cooley-staying-at-providence-after-interviewing-for-michigan-head-coach-job
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,477
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Post by TC on Mar 6, 2023 14:32:58 GMT -5
Is AI so smart that it leaves Head Coach Georgetown University off of this resume because it didn't go well?
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Highsmith
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,490
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Post by Highsmith on Mar 6, 2023 19:16:46 GMT -5
Thats the thing people are missing. Its not about Xs and Os. In studying some of the great coaches in the college game, they all say its about skills strengthening. Cooley had a great quote. He said in any game, you maybe run 1-2 set plays the whole game, the rest of the time you're defending, dribbling, rebounding and shooting. That's what his team spends about 90% of their time working on along with getting players to recognize their teammates strengths and weaknesses. Coach Pitino has said that players always came to him asking how to get to the league and he said he spends a good deal of time working on skills that the league is looking for (which happens to be shooting, rebounding, ball handling, defending). Coach Bob Knight as we know had a perfect season in the 80s. And his players have said they didn't run offensive sets, they had no playbook or plays, there was no Xs and Os because "systems" could be figured out / solved (Which I think is what hurt JTIII's teams; even still JTIII's teams were successful in-season because as his players have said, they would work on all kinds of skills drills, he had his bigs practicing guard drills; and wasnt there a quote where jeff green said in the beginning he was like "what do we keep practicing this over and over for?" but then he realized that later in the season they became hard to stop). So back to these coaches... they worked incessantly on skill development and getting their players to understand their teammates strengths, weaknesses, likes, and dislikes. Even a guy like james jones has said that they work on skils more than anything...rebounding, defending, sharing the ball EVERYBODY - especially late in the season because its so important. Year before last, I believe Yale led the nation or was near the top in defensive rebounding. thats something they work on religiously. so, to the extent that a coach teaches the game and works on skills thats where you find successful teams more often than not. those skilss can get you out of losing situations. And Kevin Braswell (who is doing a little coaching) made a good point on a GU Basketball facebook post. He said today's game is about "what do you do after the play is run?" he said that's where games are won and lost because nobody's really running plays like that so with his guys they work much more on skills and succeeding in those situations where the play has been diagnosed or figured out. What do you do? Answering that question goes a long way in putting your team in position to be successful. Of course there has to be some kind of base offensive philosophy but.... And what did Dante Harris say was one of the first differences he noticed between UVA and Georgetown? - Bennett’s attention to detail has impressed Harris, who said practices at UVA differ from those he went through at Georgetown. “We do a lot of skill work, and I feel like that’s still important to this day,” he said.Ewing never took the time to understand the importance of skill work at the college level, he just used the pro assumption that the players already had those skills. I feel like assumption was a major flaw of Ewing. I'm not sure he would have the patience to teach what needed to be taught even if he hadn't assumed, though. So many high level players just don't get that the majority of other players are not as skilled as they were....especially young players in college. Teaching young people a skill is all about patience.....and not making assumptions about what they know. When they don't get something, you have to dig deeper to find out what they are missing and keep doing more and more repetition. Guys who found the game easy and were supremely skilled rarely make good coaches because they just can't get to the point of being able to go that deep and do that much repetition of things that, to them, are simple. "I keep telling them!" But you need to show them....over and over and over. Then they need to practice doing it....over and over and over. "MOVE!!" Move where...and how? Did you show them? Did you practice it over and over and over? "REBOUND!" Do they know the proper way to box out? Are there consequences in games when they don't do what they have been taught? More importantly, are there consequences in practice when players don't do the things they are taught? I would love to hear Ewing's answers to many of these types of questions. I'm in my 27th year as a teacher and much of what I see in Ewing's comments, etc is that he just plain had no idea how to teach college players. I think his schemes were not very good either, but his ability to teach was a big problem. I just wish someone had seen it when many of us did and we wouldn't have ended up here after 6 years.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 6, 2023 20:04:59 GMT -5
And what did Dante Harris say was one of the first differences he noticed between UVA and Georgetown? - Bennett’s attention to detail has impressed Harris, who said practices at UVA differ from those he went through at Georgetown. “We do a lot of skill work, and I feel like that’s still important to this day,” he said.Ewing never took the time to understand the importance of skill work at the college level, he just used the pro assumption that the players already had those skills. I feel like assumption was a major flaw of Ewing. I'm not sure he would have the patience to teach what needed to be taught even if he hadn't assumed, though. So many high level players just don't get that the majority of other players are not as skilled as they were....especially young players in college. Teaching young people a skill is all about patience.....and not making assumptions about what they know. When they don't get something, you have to dig deeper to find out what they are missing and keep doing more and more repetition. Guys who found the game easy and were supremely skilled rarely make good coaches because they just can't get to the point of being able to go that deep and do that much repetition of things that, to them, are simple. "I keep telling them!" But you need to show them....over and over and over. Then they need to practice doing it....over and over and over. "MOVE!!" Move where...and how? Did you show them? Did you practice it over and over and over? "REBOUND!" Do they know the proper way to box out? Are there consequences in games when they don't do what they have been taught? More importantly, are there consequences in practice when players don't do the things they are taught? I would love to hear Ewing's answers to many of these types of questions. I'm in my 27th year as a teacher and much of what I see in Ewing's comments, etc is that he just plain had no idea how to teach college players. I think his schemes were not very good either, but his ability to teach was a big problem. I just wish someone had seen it when many of us did and we wouldn't have ended up here after 6 years. Correct and well said. Ewing clearly is not a good teacher for the reasons you describe above. None of this is new. It was really clear even during the BET win season in 2021. It’s interesting to think about what would have happened had Ewing never won the BET. Let’s say we lose to Villanova that year. At that point, Ewing’s four years of work at Georgetown would’ve been pretty bad (nothing approximating what we have seen since then, but still bad objectively - not once coming close to an at large bid). My guess is DeGioia would’ve kept Ewing around and we’d likely still be in the same place. DeGioia, having been friends with the Thompsons for decades and having 40 years of supervisor roles over the program, is clearly too personally involved and biased to be making any decision with regard to this program. That’s how we ended up with the negligent extension. No unbiased competent person would have ever given Ewing such a sweetheart extension.
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thedragon
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Post by thedragon on Mar 6, 2023 20:12:52 GMT -5
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nbhoya
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Post by nbhoya on Mar 6, 2023 20:16:55 GMT -5
Cooley with a loaded assistant pool would be….
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TC
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Post by TC on Mar 6, 2023 20:24:11 GMT -5
Is the square button the button you hit for a steal on PlayStation? Spamming that button hard.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Mar 6, 2023 20:35:36 GMT -5
Is the square button the button you hit for a steal on PlayStation? Spamming that button hard. Yes it is. I really wish there was still a College Hoops 2K game.
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Post by augustusfinknottle on Mar 6, 2023 21:10:08 GMT -5
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by TC on Mar 6, 2023 21:16:08 GMT -5
What about if we add this tweet by Mister Hot Balls?
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Mar 6, 2023 21:23:59 GMT -5
Pat Kelsey and 29-3 College of Charleston on CBS Sports Network currently.
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nbhoya
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
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Post by nbhoya on Mar 6, 2023 21:35:44 GMT -5
I know it’s weird, but Leroy has a track record.
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bluechi
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Post by bluechi on Mar 6, 2023 21:47:23 GMT -5
I know it’s weird, but Leroy has a track record. Really?
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bluechi
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 707
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Post by bluechi on Mar 6, 2023 21:51:27 GMT -5
And what did Dante Harris say was one of the first differences he noticed between UVA and Georgetown? - Bennett’s attention to detail has impressed Harris, who said practices at UVA differ from those he went through at Georgetown. “We do a lot of skill work, and I feel like that’s still important to this day,” he said.Ewing never took the time to understand the importance of skill work at the college level, he just used the pro assumption that the players already had those skills. I feel like assumption was a major flaw of Ewing. I'm not sure he would have the patience to teach what needed to be taught even if he hadn't assumed, though. So many high level players just don't get that the majority of other players are not as skilled as they were....especially young players in college. Teaching young people a skill is all about patience.....and not making assumptions about what they know. When they don't get something, you have to dig deeper to find out what they are missing and keep doing more and more repetition. Guys who found the game easy and were supremely skilled rarely make good coaches because they just can't get to the point of being able to go that deep and do that much repetition of things that, to them, are simple. "I keep telling them!" But you need to show them....over and over and over. Then they need to practice doing it....over and over and over. "MOVE!!" Move where...and how? Did you show them? Did you practice it over and over and over? "REBOUND!" Do they know the proper way to box out? Are there consequences in games when they don't do what they have been taught? More importantly, are there consequences in practice when players don't do the things they are taught? I would love to hear Ewing's answers to many of these types of questions. I'm in my 27th year as a teacher and much of what I see in Ewing's comments, etc is that he just plain had no idea how to teach college players. I think his schemes were not very good either, but his ability to teach was a big problem. I just wish someone had seen it when many of us did and we wouldn't have ended up here after 6 years. Of course. Exactly. Clear to everyone who was screaming.
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thedragon
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by thedragon on Mar 6, 2023 22:36:23 GMT -5
The source is better than you'd expect.
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