|
Post by professorhoya on Mar 5, 2023 21:52:41 GMT -5
Pinto could eventually get you to an Elite Eight. Upside with Cooley is first weekend of NCAAs. Both better than where we are today. Higher ceiling with Pitino. So basically JTIII with Cooley. Didn’t people not want that?
|
|
EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 15,213
|
Post by EtomicB on Mar 5, 2023 22:27:27 GMT -5
Pinto could eventually get you to an Elite Eight. Upside with Cooley is first weekend of NCAAs. Both better than where we are today. Higher ceiling with Pitino. So basically JTIII with Cooley. Didn’t people not want that? Folks didn’t want JT3 back then but after 6 years of PE he stars to look like the 2nd coming of John Chaney… It’s not hard Professor losing in the 1st round of the NCAA Tournament beats being in last place by a lot. I know you’ll come back with some silly “I don’t want mediocrity” response but the rest of us know that mediocre beats atrocious every time…
|
|
bluechi
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 707
|
Post by bluechi on Mar 5, 2023 22:45:26 GMT -5
Pitino may be the best pure coach of the college game of his generation. Others might have recruited better, and run their programs better. Plus his age is certainly a potential issue in terms of his candidacy for our job. But in terms of X/O strategy and teaching the game to/developing his players - I don't think anyone has been better than Pitino over the past 35 years or so. When you include recruiting,NCAAA compliance, and other factors - guys like Coach K, Wright, Self, Roy Williams have probably had more success than Pitino. But I'll still take Pitino on the pure strategy/teaching element of the game. Does that mean he is the best choice for the Hoyas right now? Most of us certainly think so. This doesn't mean that there could not be other strong candidates, like Cooley. But even a good coach like Cooley is not in Pitino's class as a pure X&O/teaching coach. I don't think any other potential Hoya coach comes anywhere close to Pitino on this stuff. I don't think Pitino is great X&0's wise, to be honest, especially offensively but he is a great teacher of skills & how he wants players to play within his system... Thats the thing people are missing. Its not about Xs and Os. In studying some of the great coaches in the college game, they all say its about skills strengthening. Cooley had a great quote. He said in any game, you maybe run 1-2 set plays the whole game, the rest of the time you're defending, dribbling, rebounding and shooting. That's what his team spends about 90% of their time working on along with getting players to recognize their teammates strengths and weaknesses. Coach Pitino has said that players always came to him asking how to get to the league and he said he spends a good deal of time working on skills that the league is looking for (which happens to be shooting, rebounding, ball handling, defending). Coach Bob Knight as we know had a perfect season in the 80s. And his players have said they didn't run offensive sets, they had no playbook or plays, there was no Xs and Os because "systems" could be figured out / solved (Which I think is what hurt JTIII's teams; even still JTIII's teams were successful in-season because as his players have said, they would work on all kinds of skills drills, he had his bigs practicing guard drills; and wasnt there a quote where jeff green said in the beginning he was like "what do we keep practicing this over and over for?" but then he realized that later in the season they became hard to stop). So back to these coaches... they worked incessantly on skill development and getting their players to understand their teammates strengths, weaknesses, likes, and dislikes. Even a guy like james jones has said that they work on skils more than anything...rebounding, defending, sharing the ball EVERYBODY - especially late in the season because its so important. Year before last, I believe Yale led the nation or was near the top in defensive rebounding. thats something they work on religiously. so, to the extent that a coach teaches the game and works on skills thats where you find successful teams more often than not. those skilss can get you out of losing situations. And Kevin Braswell (who is doing a little coaching) made a good point on a GU Basketball facebook post. He said today's game is about "what do you do after the play is run?" he said that's where games are won and lost because nobody's really running plays like that so with his guys they work much more on skills and succeeding in those situations where the play has been diagnosed or figured out. What do you do? Answering that question goes a long way in putting your team in position to be successful. Of course there has to be some kind of base offensive philosophy but....
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Mar 5, 2023 22:57:51 GMT -5
I don't think Pitino is great X&0's wise, to be honest, especially offensively but he is a great teacher of skills & how he wants players to play within his system... . Coach Bob Knight as we know had a perfect season in the 80s. s.... He did? What year was that?
|
|
bluechi
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 707
|
Post by bluechi on Mar 5, 2023 23:02:37 GMT -5
. Coach Bob Knight as we know had a perfect season in the 80s. s.... He did? What year was that? Sorry not 80s it was 1976
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Mar 5, 2023 23:42:51 GMT -5
So basically JTIII with Cooley. Didn’t people not want that? Folks didn’t want JT3 back then but after 6 years of PE he stars to look like the 2nd coming of John Chaney… It or hard Professor losing in the 1st round of the NCAA Tournament beats being in last place by a lot. I know you’ll come back with some silly “I don’t want mediocrity” response but the rest of us know mediocre beats atrocious every time… So here’s the question. John Thompson is a mentor and father figure and friend to Ed Cooley. news.providence.edu/coach-ed-cooley-recalls-special-bond-with-john-thompson-64/So this would probably mean Frodo and the gang will still be around the program. Are the Thompson/Ewing haters who want to erase Thompson/Ewing from the Georgetown Multiverse okay with this?
|
|
Elvado
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 10,686
|
Post by Elvado on Mar 6, 2023 5:24:16 GMT -5
Rescuing this program is at the very least a two-step process
1. Radical Thompsonectomy 2. Competent head coach
Without 1, 2 will be meaningless
|
|
bluechi
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 707
|
Post by bluechi on Mar 6, 2023 6:19:44 GMT -5
I’d rather have Pitino than Cooley but Cooley made Providence competitive for the first time in decades. He’s a very good coach, but thus far, his ceiling has been lower than Pitino’s obviously. Arguably, Cooley might be able to do more with Georgetown he could at Providence too. I’d still take Cooley over basically anybody else mentioned other than Pitino. DeGioia would surely love him over Pitino too. I just don’t think he’s making the move. I also think people are putting way too much emphasis on a few bad Providence games - I am not saying there’s nothing there but it’s easy to overestimate a few bad games and make false extrapolations from a small sample size. I see Cooley as a guy to get you into the NCAAs like 4 out of every 6-7 years where you’ll be anywhere between a 6 and 9 seed. 90% of the time you won’t make it out of the first weekend. 10% of the time you’ll catch lightning in a bottle and hit a Sweet 16/Elite 8. If that’s the ceiling, I’m down. on edit: Bigs beat me to it by a minute and put it much more succinctly… That's cooley NOW. He could get better talent in D.C.
|
|
CTHoya08
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Bring back Izzo!
Posts: 2,909
|
Post by CTHoya08 on Mar 6, 2023 6:49:45 GMT -5
I think we’ve become so jaded by our recent run of failure that it’s become easy to overlook how much better a job Georgetown is than Providence. If Ed Cooley were to come here, he almost certainly would have more recruiting success than he’s had at Providence. As tarnished as it is, Georgetown is still more of a “brand” than Providence. DC is still a more attractive city than Providence, Rhode Island. And that’s to say nothing of the difference in local talent pools.
Pitino is still my first choice for a multitude of reasons set out in this thread by many posters. But it’s disingenuous to act like Cooley’s record at PC would be his ceiling at GU. It is far more likely that it would be his floor.
|
|
lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
Posts: 17,443
|
Post by lichoya68 on Mar 6, 2023 7:03:59 GMT -5
Dawn STANLEY yup never know we hired a young African American high school coach in big John. Well that was transformational. Go big go bold yup. Some have called her the BEST. Coach in college Bball. Go Hoyas. Beat nova and move move move and move on. MEANARYWAYUP yup that’s it !
|
|
|
Post by oldhoyafan3 on Mar 6, 2023 9:02:51 GMT -5
Folks didn’t want JT3 back then but after 6 years of PE he stars to look like the 2nd coming of John Chaney… It or hard Professor losing in the 1st round of the NCAA Tournament beats being in last place by a lot. I know you’ll come back with some silly “I don’t want mediocrity” response but the rest of us know mediocre beats atrocious every time… So here’s the question. John Thompson is a mentor and father figure and friend to Ed Cooley. news.providence.edu/coach-ed-cooley-recalls-special-bond-with-john-thompson-64/So this would probably mean Frodo and the gang will still be around the program. Are the Thompson/Ewing haters who want to erase Thompson/Ewing from the Georgetown Multiverse okay with this? Pitino and Ewing are apparently close friends, so there's that angle
|
|
|
Post by footahh on Mar 6, 2023 9:12:06 GMT -5
Are we really questioning Pitino on the Xs and Os side? He's one of the all time greats in that department.
In his last 10 years at Louisville, he had a top 10 defense in the country in 9 of them. That is unprecedented success and consistency. Tony Bennett at his best did 8 out of 9 and in the three years since hasn't had a top 25 defense.
And on the offensive side he's had 5 top 10 offenses in his career (at least since KenPom kept numbers since 1997). He revolutionized the three point line in the college game decades ago. Interestingly enough, some of the decline in his more recent teams offensive efficiency is likely due to a decreased rate of 3PA. But he's no slouch.
IN his last 15 years at Louisville he finished top 25 in KenPom 13 times. Cooley has never done it. They aren't in the same ballpark.
|
|
kettlehill
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,155
|
Post by kettlehill on Mar 6, 2023 9:50:34 GMT -5
The fact that Ed Cooley is being seriously discussed here just doesn't make any sense to me. In 2022- in apparent response to the approach by Michigan- he signed his second extension in three years- what has been called a "lifetime contract"- estimated to be for 10 years and between 30-40 million. He is a native of Prov. and has very, very deep ties to the city and state. I wonder what the buyout would be. I can't see Degoia "raiding" another BE school for a coach. Cooley is where he belongs- and I think he knows it.
|
|
hoyaboya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 12,750
|
Post by hoyaboya on Mar 6, 2023 9:56:35 GMT -5
I think we can safely say Nate James won't be on the list of potential candidates. Another Coach K disciple bites the dust... "Austin Peay State University has parted ways with head men’s basketball coach Nate James, according to sources. James went 21-39 in two seasons with the Governors, including a 9-22 mark in the 2022-23 season. It was the team’s worst record since the 2014-15 season. His stint is the shortest for a head coach at APSU since Howard Jackson coached two seasons in 1983-84 and 1984-85. The Nate James era got off to a slow start in his first season, with the team finishing 12-19 and 8-10 in the OVC. Their shift to the ASUN Conference did them no favors, as they finished dead-last with a 3-15 record this season, including just one win in their final 14 games. Their last game at the Winfield Dunn Center, which served as the home of the Governors since 1975, will be remembered by a game-ending brawl between Austin Peay and North Florida, which resulted in the suspension of three Governor players." mainstreetmediatn.com/articles/b-mainstreetclarksville/20230309-msc-jamesout/
|
|
alleninxis
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,216
|
Post by alleninxis on Mar 6, 2023 10:00:34 GMT -5
Ed Cooley loves Georgetown. It doesn't make much sense on the surface but he was a Georgetown fan, reveres JT Jr, sent his daughter here - the guy loves Georgetown. I don't think he'd leave, but everyone always asks the 'why would he ever leave?' question - it's because Georgetown means something to him. It's not lateral job ____.
|
|
|
Post by oldhoyafan3 on Mar 6, 2023 10:00:41 GMT -5
The fact that Ed Cooley is being seriously discussed here just doesn't make any sense to me. In 2022- in apparent response to the approach by Michigan- he signed his second extension in three years- what has been called a "lifetime contract"- estimated to be for 10 years and between 30-40 million. He is a native of Prov. and has very, very deep ties to the city and state. I wonder what the buyout would be. I can't see Degoia "raiding" another BE school for a coach. Cooley is where he belongs- and I think he knows it. Agree. Seems like some want that to happen but I sure as hell can't figure out why.
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Mar 6, 2023 10:09:31 GMT -5
Pitino and Ewing are apparently close friends, so there's that angle It’s too bad you arent the real oldhoyafan. Wonder what happened to him, he was the best poster on here.
|
|
|
Post by oldhoyafan3 on Mar 6, 2023 10:11:52 GMT -5
Pitino and Ewing are apparently close friends, so there's that angle It’s too bad you arent the real oldhoyafan. Wonder what happened to him, he was the best poster on here. Apologies.
|
|
nbhoya
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 435
|
Post by nbhoya on Mar 6, 2023 10:20:49 GMT -5
Dawn STANLEY yup never know we hired a young African American high school coach in big John. Well that was transformational. Go big go bold yup. Some have called her the BEST. Coach in college Bball. Go Hoyas. Beat nova and move move move and move on. MEANARYWAYUP yup that’s it ! Please stop
|
|
NCHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,927
|
Post by NCHoya on Mar 6, 2023 10:42:08 GMT -5
I don't think Pitino is great X&0's wise, to be honest, especially offensively but he is a great teacher of skills & how he wants players to play within his system... Thats the thing people are missing. Its not about Xs and Os. In studying some of the great coaches in the college game, they all say its about skills strengthening. Cooley had a great quote. He said in any game, you maybe run 1-2 set plays the whole game, the rest of the time you're defending, dribbling, rebounding and shooting. That's what his team spends about 90% of their time working on along with getting players to recognize their teammates strengths and weaknesses. Coach Pitino has said that players always came to him asking how to get to the league and he said he spends a good deal of time working on skills that the league is looking for (which happens to be shooting, rebounding, ball handling, defending). Coach Bob Knight as we know had a perfect season in the 80s. And his players have said they didn't run offensive sets, they had no playbook or plays, there was no Xs and Os because "systems" could be figured out / solved (Which I think is what hurt JTIII's teams; even still JTIII's teams were successful in-season because as his players have said, they would work on all kinds of skills drills, he had his bigs practicing guard drills; and wasnt there a quote where jeff green said in the beginning he was like "what do we keep practicing this over and over for?" but then he realized that later in the season they became hard to stop). So back to these coaches... they worked incessantly on skill development and getting their players to understand their teammates strengths, weaknesses, likes, and dislikes. Even a guy like james jones has said that they work on skils more than anything...rebounding, defending, sharing the ball EVERYBODY - especially late in the season because its so important. Year before last, I believe Yale led the nation or was near the top in defensive rebounding. thats something they work on religiously. so, to the extent that a coach teaches the game and works on skills thats where you find successful teams more often than not. those skilss can get you out of losing situations. And Kevin Braswell (who is doing a little coaching) made a good point on a GU Basketball facebook post. He said today's game is about "what do you do after the play is run?" he said that's where games are won and lost because nobody's really running plays like that so with his guys they work much more on skills and succeeding in those situations where the play has been diagnosed or figured out. What do you do? Answering that question goes a long way in putting your team in position to be successful. Of course there has to be some kind of base offensive philosophy but.... And what did Dante Harris say was one of the first differences he noticed between UVA and Georgetown? - Bennett’s attention to detail has impressed Harris, who said practices at UVA differ from those he went through at Georgetown. “We do a lot of skill work, and I feel like that’s still important to this day,” he said.Ewing never took the time to understand the importance of skill work at the college level, he just used the pro assumption that the players already had those skills.
|
|