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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Feb 28, 2023 11:35:48 GMT -5
As an alum and long time Hoya fan, and huge fan of the game, I would love to see a Hoya coach rebuild and have something solid for 10 years or much longer. It’s fine to say this, but then the question is who can do the rebuild and have something for 10 years or much longer? Pitino isn’t a ten year coach but he’s about as a sure thing as you can get in the nest 4-5 years and he’d likely retire or leave us in much, much, better position than we are in now. He might even be able to groom somebody capable to take over. The risk with the 10 year+ desire is then you need to go younger and then you (a) introduce the risk that the person doesn’t succeed and we are in the wilderness another 5 years or (b) we hire somebody young who turns out to be good and they could leave for a top job anyway, but that’s only if they succeed which is never a sure thing. The college basketball landscape is littered with up and coming coaches with promise who don’t work our or flame out. In my mind, we need a quick turnaround and someone like Pitino is the most likely to do that, plus it’s a really good fit for us and for him, so it’s a win-win. Really the only person that comes to mind (other than reach candidates) with little risk is Cooley but he’s unlikely to leave Providence, and Pitino is a better coach anyway, even if Cooley is younger. |
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,481
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Post by TC on Feb 28, 2023 12:01:27 GMT -5
Pitino has serious lore. But, to players now? Being able to get the right players and over the next 4 to 6 years build the Hoya program back, from a player's perspective? I don't know (not saying he can't, just exactly that I don't know). As an alum and long time Hoya fan, and huge fan of the game, I would love to see a Hoya coach rebuild and have something solid for 10 years or much longer. "I don't know if Rick Pitino can recruit anymore" is @badhoyatakes material. The draw with Pitino isn't that he's a brand name to a 17 year old - none of the coaches we are talking about are (Brey, Mack, James Jones) - the draw is he can coach, publicize the hell out of the program, the ticket base will buy tickets, and he is an absolute force of nature in winning. Ed Cooley made the point that because of COVID, "senior citizens are going to be playing for the next 2-3 years". Our long term success isn't going to be in getting Mike Jones and having him put together a bunch of DMV freshmen and hope we can keep them. It's going to be hiring someone who can quickly win with the portal, and then build from there. We need to win now though because the TV contract is up in 2024-2025. |
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Post by professorhoya on Feb 28, 2023 12:03:41 GMT -5
As an alum and long time Hoya fan, and huge fan of the game, I would love to see a Hoya coach rebuild and have something solid for 10 years or much longer. It’s fine to say this, but then the question is who can do the rebuild and have something for 10 years or much longer? Pitino isn’t a ten year coach but he’s about as a sure thing as you can get in the nest 4-5 years and he’d likely retire or leave us in much, much, better position than we are in now. He might even be able to groom somebody capable to take over. The risk with the 10 year+ desire is then you need to go younger and then you (a) introduce the risk that the person doesn’t succeed and we are in the wilderness another 5 years or (b) we hire somebody young who turns out to be good and they could leave for a top job anyway, but that’s only if they succeed which is never a sure thing. The college basketball landscape is littered with up and coming coaches with promise who don’t work our or flame out. In my mind, we need a quick turnaround and someone like Pitino is the most likely to do that, plus it’s a really good fit for us and for him, so it’s a win-win. Really the only person that comes to mind (other than reach candidates) with little risk is Cooley but he’s unlikely to leave Providence, and Pitino is a better coach anyway, even if Cooley is younger. Pitino Beard Jay Wright Make it happen |
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Omega
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by Omega on Feb 28, 2023 12:15:13 GMT -5
Not reading through all 107 pages. But from the pages I've read, there seems to be a lot of second class citizens talk.
If a change is made, GU should have no problem getting a high quality coach.
Georgetown is a national brand with tradition. The Hoyas play in a power 6 conference. The DMV is loaded with talent. This my friends is not a stepping stone program.
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madgesiq92
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Post by madgesiq92 on Feb 28, 2023 12:19:02 GMT -5
After the top 2-3 candidates, Georgetown's list is likely to be different than other schools.
My guess is the three preferred candidates will be:
1. Pitino
2. Cooley
3. Brey (w young, DMV heavy staff)
The gap for me btw 2 and 3 is larger than the gap between 1 and 2, but Pitino is clear #1.
I could live with Brey. Not sure if he would be interested, he wasn't in 2017---but maybe because of JT's looming shadow.
Not sure Chris Mack will be a real candidate.
The two potential candidates that I think would be disastrous (but I think will be in play) would be Amaker or Dawkins. James Jones would be better choice than either.
If we hire either of them, the program will become as entrenched in the bottom of BE as DePaul for the foreseeable future.
I do not see the university taking a chance on an up-and-coming mid major coach with no connection to the program.
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daveg023
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by daveg023 on Feb 28, 2023 12:19:44 GMT -5
Professor - what’s your angle listing two coaches who have less a chance of being hired here than you? If they don’t hire Pitino then you can claim keeping Ewing would be better?
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EasyEd
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,272
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Post by EasyEd on Feb 28, 2023 12:20:06 GMT -5
College of Charleston coach Pat Kelsey agreed to new contract extension through 2028. At least $5M total. $1M per year plus incentives.
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hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by hoya9797 on Feb 28, 2023 12:22:08 GMT -5
"The Georgetown way" - We don't need a "way." Don't look for ways to eliminate good coaches. Just win with integrity. We have a “way” now and it’s unbelievable failure led by Thompson era idiots. We do not need anymore of that. |
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Post by practice on Feb 28, 2023 12:22:15 GMT -5
thedragon - Agree to disagree ... he was exonerated by the IARP over the pay-to-play scandal ... and he recently settled a lawsuit with Louisville ... he was not fired but resigned. In the exotic dancer/escort case, he denied knowing anything about it, no evidence ever came up that he knew anything about and he was penalized for effectively not knowing anything about it. I know from your glass house that this looks really bad, but these are simply not that egregious. Others have raised concerns about his personal behavior in his marriage, but I consider those private between him and his wife -- plus the third party was sentenced to 7+ years to federal prison for extortion!
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thedragon
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Post by thedragon on Feb 28, 2023 12:24:14 GMT -5
While as Ive said many times on here, Id be fully on board with a Pitino hire- I think this idea that hes the only choice because hes a slam dunk to win right away is fools gold. Hes 70+ years old. Has not coached at a high major in 7 years. His track record with recent transfer portal is highly unimpressive. For this season Iona had 3 transfers: 1 from Mizzou, and 2 from Community colleges. His current staff is highly unimpressive. And his former staff - well, we know how that went.
He's a HOF'er and one of the best coaches of a generation. Its just a matter of which generation. Is it impossible to believe that he could flounder at Gtown much in the way Boeheim has at Syracuse as he got older? If Pitino came in and made Georgetown a .500 team, for the next 2 or 3 years - would that suffice? Because that is probably at the higher end of probabilities - and then what? You now have a 73 year old coach about to retire with a middling program and are basically back to where we are today in a coaching search with a few extra Ws.
Again, Im on board with his hiring if it goes that way, but at the expense of a real search, or proclamation that its him or bust - foolishness imo.
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madgesiq92
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Post by madgesiq92 on Feb 28, 2023 12:28:35 GMT -5
While as Ive said many times on here, Id be fully on board with a Pitino hire- I think this idea that hes the only choice because hes a slam dunk to win right away is fools gold. Hes 70+ years old. Has not coached at a high major in 7 years. His track record with recent transfer portal is highly unimpressive. For this season Iona had 3 transfers: 1 from Mizzou, and 2 from Community colleges. His current staff is highly unimpressive. And his former staff - well, we know how that went. He's a HOF'er and one of the best coaches of a generation. Its just a matter of which generation. Is it impossible to believe that he could flounder at Gtown much in the way Boeheim has at Syracuse as he got older? If Pitino came in and made Georgetown a .500 team, for the next 2 or 3 years - would that suffice? Because that is probably at the higher end of probabilities - and then what? You now have a 73 year old coach about to retire with a middling program and are basically back to where we are today in a coaching search with a few extra Ws. Again, Im on board with his hiring if it goes that way, but at the expense of a real search, or proclamation that its him or bust - foolishness imo. Based on what you know about the University, what do you think a "real search" looks like? I have little confidence in a real search happening because my lack of confidence in who would conduct it. Georgetown's idea of a real search could be wheeling out Paul Tagliabue again with the threshold questions being: "Are you represented by David Falk?" and "Would you honor Jack's promise to JT2 to keep Ronny employed?" and winding up with Amaker or Dawkins. |
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Post by professorhoya on Feb 28, 2023 12:28:39 GMT -5
Professor - what’s your angle listing two coaches who have less a chance of being hired here than you? If they don’t hire Pitino then you can claim keeping Ewing would be better? I would be fine with any of the three. Don’t want mediocre or unaccomplished coaches. If you go all in on one guy only, that’s foolish. |
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Post by professorhoya on Feb 28, 2023 12:30:42 GMT -5
thedragon - Agree to disagree ... he was exonerated by the IARP over the pay-to-play scandal ... and he recently settled a lawsuit with Louisville ... he was not fired but resigned. In the exotic dancer/escort case, he denied knowing anything about it, no evidence ever came up that he knew anything about and he was penalized for effectively not knowing anything about it. I know from your glass house that this looks really bad, but these are simply not that egregious. Others have raised concerns about his personal behavior in his marriage, but I consider those private between him and his wife -- plus the third party was sentenced to 7+ years to federal prison for extortion! However 2013 national championship has been erased by the NCAA. Can’t really bring that up or that final four as an accomplishment of his since the elite players that were brought in came in through the recruiting sex tactics and cheating. |
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Post by professorhoya on Feb 28, 2023 12:33:00 GMT -5
While as Ive said many times on here, Id be fully on board with a Pitino hire- I think this idea that hes the only choice because hes a slam dunk to win right away is fools gold. Hes 70+ years old. Has not coached at a high major in 7 years. His track record with recent transfer portal is highly unimpressive. For this season Iona had 3 transfers: 1 from Mizzou, and 2 from Community colleges. His current staff is highly unimpressive. And his former staff - well, we know how that went. He's a HOF'er and one of the best coaches of a generation. Its just a matter of which generation. Is it impossible to believe that he could flounder at Gtown much in the way Boeheim has at Syracuse as he got older? If Pitino came in and made Georgetown a .500 team, for the next 2 or 3 years - would that suffice? Because that is probably at the higher end of probabilities - and then what? You now have a 73 year old coach about to retire with a middling program and are basically back to where we are today in a coaching search with a few extra Ws. Again, Im on board with his hiring if it goes that way, but at the expense of a real search, or proclamation that its him or bust - foolishness imo. Agreed not good to put all your marbles in one basket. He may not even want to come here. Can’t be a kid in a toy aisle demanding that he get the toy that is sold out/too expensive/unavailable. Need to have options and a backup plan or may be severely disappointed and disillusioned if Pitino doesn’t come here. |
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thedragon
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Post by thedragon on Feb 28, 2023 12:33:03 GMT -5
While as Ive said many times on here, Id be fully on board with a Pitino hire- I think this idea that hes the only choice because hes a slam dunk to win right away is fools gold. Hes 70+ years old. Has not coached at a high major in 7 years. His track record with recent transfer portal is highly unimpressive. For this season Iona had 3 transfers: 1 from Mizzou, and 2 from Community colleges. His current staff is highly unimpressive. And his former staff - well, we know how that went. He's a HOF'er and one of the best coaches of a generation. Its just a matter of which generation. Is it impossible to believe that he could flounder at Gtown much in the way Boeheim has at Syracuse as he got older? If Pitino came in and made Georgetown a .500 team, for the next 2 or 3 years - would that suffice? Because that is probably at the higher end of probabilities - and then what? You now have a 73 year old coach about to retire with a middling program and are basically back to where we are today in a coaching search with a few extra Ws. Again, Im on board with his hiring if it goes that way, but at the expense of a real search, or proclamation that its him or bust - foolishness imo. Based on what you know about the University, what do you think a "real search" looks like? I have little confidence in a real search happening because who would conduct it. Georgetown's idea of a real search could be wheeling out Paul Tagliabue again with the threshold questions being: "Are you represented by David Falk?" and "Would you honor Jack's promise to JT2 to keep Ronny employed?" and winding up with Amaker or Dawkins. Madge - Your question is well founded and your skepticism is well earned. I think Im hopeful of a real search because the circumstances have greatly changed. JT is gone (RIP). People like Tagliabue have gotten up in age and their voices within the ears of the administration have greatly diminished. And maybe most importantly, JDG has been embarrassed. By the way the program has been run (Graduation rates, disciplinary issue, W-L record) as well as the negative publicity around the extension. I believe we are going to see a much more standard process this time around...time will tell. |
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Post by practice on Feb 28, 2023 12:33:17 GMT -5
While as Ive said many times on here, Id be fully on board with a Pitino hire- I think this idea that hes the only choice because hes a slam dunk to win right away is fools gold. Hes 70+ years old. Has not coached at a high major in 7 years. His track record with recent transfer portal is highly unimpressive. For this season Iona had 3 transfers: 1 from Mizzou, and 2 from Community colleges. His current staff is highly unimpressive. And his former staff - well, we know how that went. He's a HOF'er and one of the best coaches of a generation. Its just a matter of which generation. Is it impossible to believe that he could flounder at Gtown much in the way Boeheim has at Syracuse as he got older? If Pitino came in and made Georgetown a .500 team, for the next 2 or 3 years - would that suffice? Because that is probably at the higher end of probabilities - and then what? You now have a 73 year old coach about to retire with a middling program and are basically back to where we are today in a coaching search with a few extra Ws. Again, Im on board with his hiring if it goes that way, but at the expense of a real search, or proclamation that its him or bust - foolishness imo. He took Providence to a Final Four in 2 years. He took Kentucky to a Final Four in 4 years. He took Louisville to a Final Four in 4 years. No one good is going to leave a great job that they have to come to Georgetown. We don't need to roll the dice on an up an comer -- we've had 8+ seasons of crap. The program needs an immediate turn around and there really is no better choice than Pitino. To me, everyone else is a bad Plan B. If I though Ed Cooley or Dennis Gates was available, then that would be different. Pitino is coaching now. Pitino will have multiple offers. Pitino will pick where he wants to be next year -- and if he doesn't like his choices, he'll stay at Iona. But, Pitino has clearly stated that he wants to win ... to me, that means he wants one more Final Four/national championship run. For as bad as Georgetown is today, we have the budget, facilities, conference, and location to provide him with that last run. You are crazy and you don't understand who you are talking about if you think .500 is the likely outcome of the Pitino Era at Georgetown. Georgetown has NEVER had a real search for a HC. We don't have time to do that now ... plus we are damaged goods. Luckily for us, Pitino does have some afterglow -- even after his exoneration -- from the mess at Louisville. |
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madgesiq92
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Post by madgesiq92 on Feb 28, 2023 12:33:51 GMT -5
Coach Calipari's Final Four with UMASS was erased and it had literally no impact on his legacy and is still considered an accomplishment,
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hoyaguy
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Post by hoyaguy on Feb 28, 2023 12:34:15 GMT -5
thedragon - Agree to disagree ... he was exonerated by the IARP over the pay-to-play scandal ... and he recently settled a lawsuit with Louisville ... he was not fired but resigned. In the exotic dancer/escort case, he denied knowing anything about it, no evidence ever came up that he knew anything about and he was penalized for effectively not knowing anything about it. I know from your glass house that this looks really bad, but these are simply not that egregious. Others have raised concerns about his personal behavior in his marriage, but I consider those private between him and his wife -- plus the third party was sentenced to 7+ years to federal prison for extortion! However 2013 national championship has been erased by the NCAA. Can’t really bring that up or that final four as an accomplishment of his since the elite players that were brought in came in through the recruiting sex tactics and cheating. Oh noooooo he only has 5 other non vacated final fours and another championship on his record, what will he ever do. Sure they have the asterisk next to them on Wikipedia but when a player looks him up, the title is still there. And you say that as if other champions never had any violations lol they just got caught |
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Post by practice on Feb 28, 2023 12:35:02 GMT -5
I'm not sure if anyone here as ever recruited someone for job -- your # 1 candidate. You know what you do in that case? You seal the deal .. you recruit the heck out of that person and you get him or her to sign the dotted line ... you don't keep talking to bunch of "next best things."
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Post by professorhoya on Feb 28, 2023 12:35:19 GMT -5
While as Ive said many times on here, Id be fully on board with a Pitino hire- I think this idea that hes the only choice because hes a slam dunk to win right away is fools gold. Hes 70+ years old. Has not coached at a high major in 7 years. His track record with recent transfer portal is highly unimpressive. For this season Iona had 3 transfers: 1 from Mizzou, and 2 from Community colleges. His current staff is highly unimpressive. And his former staff - well, we know how that went. He's a HOF'er and one of the best coaches of a generation. Its just a matter of which generation. Is it impossible to believe that he could flounder at Gtown much in the way Boeheim has at Syracuse as he got older? If Pitino came in and made Georgetown a .500 team, for the next 2 or 3 years - would that suffice? Because that is probably at the higher end of probabilities - and then what? You now have a 73 year old coach about to retire with a middling program and are basically back to where we are today in a coaching search with a few extra Ws. Again, Im on board with his hiring if it goes that way, but at the expense of a real search, or proclamation that its him or bust - foolishness imo. He took Providence to a Final Four in 2 years. He took Kentucky to a Final Four in 4 years. He took Louisville to a Final Four in 4 years. . Can’t count Louisville. Records erased and talent was assembled though cheating and sex. He had however taken Providence and Kentucky to the final Four so that’s still more than 99% of coaches. |
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