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Post by professorhoya on Feb 27, 2023 23:13:25 GMT -5
If Cooley is being considered might as well go for Jay Wright.
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tashoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by tashoya on Feb 27, 2023 23:58:30 GMT -5
I loved Patrick as a player because he made Big John's dream a reality and made us relevant. And, I can separate Pat the player from Pat the coach. I get it if others can't. I'm probably from a different generation. For me, what Patrick did as a player at that time and for our University, for me, cannot ever be erased or tarnished. That said, he's earned his walking papers as a coach as sad as that makes me. I'm glad Georgetown gave him the opportunity. He earned that shot both with his time in school and his work in the NBA. Has it sucked? Yes. But, start fresh. No hard feelings. I'm sure Patrick gave it his all. But, it's time to move on. He's still and will forever be (for me) a great Hoya.
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Highsmith
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by Highsmith on Feb 28, 2023 7:00:44 GMT -5
If Cooley is being considered might as well go for Jay Wright. The call should be made for sure. No way he thumbs his nose at Villanova and says yes, though. That would almost be like John Thompson stepping down when he did from Georgetown and then taking the Syracuse job a year later. |
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
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Post by SSHoya on Feb 28, 2023 7:02:24 GMT -5
If Cooley is being considered might as well go for Jay Wright. The call should be made for sure. No way he thumbs his nose at Villanova and says yes, though. That would almost be like John Thompson stepping down when he did from Georgetown and then taking the Syracuse job a year later. The worst that can happen is that Wright starts laughing. Didn't he state that the changing landscape of NCAAB with NIL was one of the reasons he was retiring? Why would he want to jump back in and at Georgetown?? |
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Highsmith
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by Highsmith on Feb 28, 2023 7:05:01 GMT -5
The call should be made for sure. No way he thumbs his nose at Villanova and says yes, though. That would almost be like John Thompson stepping down when he did from Georgetown and then taking the Syracuse job a year later. The worst that can happen is that Wright starts laughing. Didn't he state that the changing landscape of NCAAB with NIL was one of the reasons he was retiring? Why would he want to jump back in and at Georgetown?? Totally agree, but you still call because sometimes those guys get antsy after being away from the job and even though they thought they were done.....they feel a pull to get back in. Just in case Wright "feels the pull" you have to ask! |
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
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Post by SSHoya on Feb 28, 2023 7:08:56 GMT -5
I loved Patrick as a player because he made Big John's dream a reality and made us relevant. And, I can separate Pat the player from Pat the coach. I get it if others can't. I'm probably from a different generation. For me, what Patrick did as a player at that time and for our University, for me, cannot ever be erased or tarnished. That said, he's earned his walking papers as a coach as sad as that makes me. I'm glad Georgetown gave him the opportunity. He earned that shot both with his time in school and his work in the NBA. Has it sucked? Yes. But, start fresh. No hard feelings. I'm sure Patrick gave it his all. But, it's time to move on. He's still and will forever be (for me) a great Hoya. The saddest thing I heard at Cap One near the end of the season, one fan yelling at Ewing (and clearly heard because of the abysmal attendance): "You were a great player but you're a terrible coach." It is tough to feel sorry for someone making $4 million per year on an unwarranted contract extension but this comment made me close to that feeling. |
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 19,532
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Post by SSHoya on Feb 28, 2023 7:23:39 GMT -5
The worst that can happen is that Wright starts laughing. Didn't he state that the changing landscape of NCAAB with NIL was one of the reasons he was retiring? Why would he want to jump back in and at Georgetown?? Totally agree, but you still call because sometimes those guys get antsy after being away from the job and even though they thought they were done.....they feel a pull to get back in. Just in case Wright "feels the pull" you have to ask! Plus I forgot about his reported deal with CBS/Turner: www.si.com/college/2022/10/21/former-villanova-coach-jay-wright-cbs-turner-broadcast-job |
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KHoyaNYC
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,902 
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Post by KHoyaNYC on Feb 28, 2023 8:48:22 GMT -5
We should be focusing on only a few candidates and putting max effort into them. If we spread ourselves too thinly, we will dilute our impact and appear disorganized and scatterbrained. No calls to Jay Wright. No reaches for people who likely won’t have interest. Pick 3 people who are realistic and go full court press to get them. Number one of those three should be Pitino.
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saxagael
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,055
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Post by saxagael on Feb 28, 2023 9:11:53 GMT -5
That ha me thinking about Pitino and what players think of him that are being recruited for college and top program coaches. I did a quick check with a friend who was recruited by Pitino and committed to him, but Pitino left and he went elsewhere, but did get his NCAA ring, and he say none of his players know who Pitino is. One of his players was getting attention from Pitino to go to Iona, but the player didn't know Pitino nor Iona and went to an SEC school. Pitino's stay at Louisville was too short and then gone and then went to Iona, which wasn't on their map of schools consider. I asked a couple players that committed already and they have no idea who Pitino is and only a rough idea of who he was and what he did. Coaches to have some top players in the nation said pretty much the same for their players as well he isn't someone they know nor at a program they would consider. Huh? Pitino was at Louisville for 16 years (not to mention eight years at UK and his several other NBA and college stops). I am not concerned about Pitino's name recognition. He'll find plenty of high level high school recruits and transfers who will be very familiar with his record. Most importantly, Pitino is an exceptional developer of talent and in game coach. I agree with you in what Pitino can do. The draw of Pitino with players is important and the last eight years (and particularly six years) is important for players. I don't know what his recruiting book looks like these days, likely decent. Recruiting is about brand and relationship, the second part is most important. Recruiting of players is a 6+ year process usually with top programs talking to coaches when the player is in middle school (coaches / recruiters can't talk to players nor their family directly until after the player's high school freshman season - unless the player is playing up on a high school team and is at a tournament with approved college coaches look in, or the coach is at a game to watch a relative). That long term relationship is key and the coaches recruiting book is essential as that will likely follow the coach(es). That post-St. John's game discussion about what current players and high school players think about schools and coaches from their perspective really hit. A player is (mostly - the new 1 free transfer for players to not sit out changed a lot of things) looking at what will I get from this coach over my four years. The best college programs in the NCAA tournament are almost all programs that have built with four year plans and even red-shirting. Many of the NBA players after the top 10 to 15 come out of these programs with long builds (one and done years have been over for two or three years). This long process is also where age of the coach comes in. I know a couple local players in the DMV who had Boeheim recruit them a few years back and age was an important consideration as they weren't sure about four years with a coach. Pitino is about 8 years younger, but a long term coach and relationship comes up and can be important to players. Pitino has serious lore. But, to players now? Being able to get the right players and over the next 4 to 6 years build the Hoya program back, from a player's perspective? I don't know (not saying he can't, just exactly that I don't know). As an alum and long time Hoya fan, and huge fan of the game, I would love to see a Hoya coach rebuild and have something solid for 10 years or much longer. |
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 15,459
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Post by EtomicB on Feb 28, 2023 9:21:05 GMT -5
I loved Patrick as a player because he made Big John's dream a reality and made us relevant. And, I can separate Pat the player from Pat the coach. I get it if others can't. I'm probably from a different generation. For me, what Patrick did as a player at that time and for our University, for me, cannot ever be erased or tarnished. That said, he's earned his walking papers as a coach as sad as that makes me. I'm glad Georgetown gave him the opportunity. He earned that shot both with his time in school and his work in the NBA. Has it sucked? Yes. But, start fresh. No hard feelings. I'm sure Patrick gave it his all. But, it's time to move on. He's still and will forever be (for me) a great Hoya. The saddest thing I heard at Cap One near the end of the season, one fan yelling at Ewing (and clearly heard because of the abysmal attendance): "You were a great player but you're a terrible coach." It is tough to feel sorry for someone making $4 million per year on an unwarranted contract extension but this comment made me close to that feeling. JD is the one who allegedly chose to allow PE to go out with "dignity" by finishing the season. I watched the 3 minute post game presser after the PC game, it was sad to see how beaten down he looks & sounds, it should never have gotten to this point. |
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daveg023
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by daveg023 on Feb 28, 2023 9:24:17 GMT -5
The saddest thing I heard at Cap One near the end of the season, one fan yelling at Ewing (and clearly heard because of the abysmal attendance): "You were a great player but you're a terrible coach." It is tough to feel sorry for someone making $4 million per year on an unwarranted contract extension but this comment made me close to that feeling. JD is the one who allegedly chose to allow PE to go out with "dignity" by finishing the season. I watched the 3 minute post game presser after the PC game, it was sad to see how beaten down he looks & sounds, it should never have gotten to this point. My thoughts exactly. Nothing was gained by letting this go on for the last 4 weeks. If anything it was unfair to the coaches and players to make them go through the motions and pretend like everything was ok. At least an announcement (like Brey) would give clarity on the situation and let the players know the situation and stop the endless speculation. |
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hoyaboya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by hoyaboya on Feb 28, 2023 9:43:19 GMT -5
JD is the one who allegedly chose to allow PE to go out with "dignity" by finishing the season. I watched the 3 minute post game presser after the PC game, it was sad to see how beaten down he looks & sounds, it should never have gotten to this point. My thoughts exactly. Nothing was gained by letting this go on for the last 4 weeks. If anything it was unfair to the coaches and players to make them go through the motions and pretend like everything was ok. At least an announcement (like Brey) would give clarity on the situation and let the players know the situation and stop the endless speculation. While I agree he should have been fired 3-4 weeks ago (and most importantly, Ronny as well), 2 things could have been gained if you’re sitting in JD’s chair: 1) A miracle run of wins that could potentially justify bringing Ewing back next season, saving the university some buyout money and kicking the can another year, getting JD closer to retirement and handing the problem to the next President; or 2) The Hoyas playing so poorly that Ewing would be embarrassed and retire, saving the university millions in buyout money. A corollary to this scenario is even if Ewing didn’t forego buyout money, continued losing makes the decision to fire Ewing even more obvious. JD can now go to Ewing and tell him he has to let him go without any potential pushback. |
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Feb 28, 2023 9:53:18 GMT -5
Huh? Pitino was at Louisville for 16 years (not to mention eight years at UK and his several other NBA and college stops). I am not concerned about Pitino's name recognition. He'll find plenty of high level high school recruits and transfers who will be very familiar with his record. Most importantly, Pitino is an exceptional developer of talent and in game coach. I agree with you in what Pitino can do. The draw of Pitino with players is important and the last eight years (and particularly six years) is important for players. I don't know what his recruiting book looks like these days, likely decent. Recruiting is about brand and relationship, the second part is most important. Recruiting of players is a 6+ year process usually with top programs talking to coaches when the player is in middle school (coaches / recruiters can't talk to players nor their family directly until after the player's high school freshman season - unless the player is playing up on a high school team and is at a tournament with approved college coaches look in, or the coach is at a game to watch a relative). That long term relationship is key and the coaches recruiting book is essential as that will likely follow the coach(es). That post-St. John's game discussion about what current players and high school players think about schools and coaches from their perspective really hit. A player is (mostly - the new 1 free transfer for players to not sit out changed a lot of things) looking at what will I get from this coach over my four years. The best college programs in the NCAA tournament are almost all programs that have built with four year plans and even red-shirting. Many of the NBA players after the top 10 to 15 come out of these programs with long builds (one and done years have been over for two or three years). This long process is also where age of the coach comes in. I know a couple local players in the DMV who had Boeheim recruit them a few years back and age was an important consideration as they weren't sure about four years with a coach. Pitino is about 8 years younger, but a long term coach and relationship comes up and can be important to players. Pitino has serious lore. But, to players now? Being able to get the right players and over the next 4 to 6 years build the Hoya program back, from a player's perspective? I don't know (not saying he can't, just exactly that I don't know). As an alum and long time Hoya fan, and huge fan of the game, I would love to see a Hoya coach rebuild and have something solid for 10 years or much longer. I want Pitino to teach that coach for at least 4 years. |
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RBHoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,143
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Post by RBHoya on Feb 28, 2023 9:53:56 GMT -5
We should be focusing on only a few candidates and putting max effort into them. If we spread ourselves too thinly, we will dilute our impact and appear disorganized and scatterbrained. No calls to Jay Wright. No reaches for people who likely won’t have interest. Pick 3 people who are realistic and go full court press to get them. Number one of those three should be Pitino. Reasonable approach. If you take your eye off the ball and start calling around to Jay Wright, Billy Donovan, Mark Few, et. al, you risk a) missing out on good candidates, who are getting snapped up by other schools while you chase people who are out of your league and b) you devalue your job, it's bad PR, and whomever you do hire is going to feel like they were your 7th or 8th choice (and they probably were). The real art is figuring who the short list is. There seems to be consensus that Pitino is one. Who else? It's really important that we be working the back channels right now, talking to agents and middlemen, to gauge who might have legitimate interest. One of the silver linings of being as bad as we've been for this long is that our job opening up will be a surprise to nobody. At some point, Ed Cooley has thought about whether he wants the Georgetown job, and there's an answer to that question that just isn't publicly known. Same with Pitino and other top candidates. And if we can get a sense of whether it's conceivable in the range we're likely to be paying prior to the official search kicking off, it'll really help us to hone in on the right candidates when the moment arrives. |
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 23,658
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Post by prhoya on Feb 28, 2023 9:55:21 GMT -5
JD is the one who allegedly chose to allow PE to go out with "dignity" by finishing the season. I watched the 3 minute post game presser after the PC game, it was sad to see how beaten down he looks & sounds, it should never have gotten to this point. My thoughts exactly. Nothing was gained by letting this go on for the last 4 weeks. If anything it was unfair to the coaches and players to make them go through the motions and pretend like everything was ok. At least an announcement (like Brey) would give clarity on the situation and let the players know the situation and stop the endless speculation. Unless they’re playing “Chicken”…  |
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Post by practice on Feb 28, 2023 11:03:57 GMT -5
Huh? Pitino was at Louisville for 16 years (not to mention eight years at UK and his several other NBA and college stops). I am not concerned about Pitino's name recognition. He'll find plenty of high level high school recruits and transfers who will be very familiar with his record. Most importantly, Pitino is an exceptional developer of talent and in game coach. I agree with you in what Pitino can do. The draw of Pitino with players is important and the last eight years (and particularly six years) is important for players. I don't know what his recruiting book looks like these days, likely decent. Recruiting is about brand and relationship, the second part is most important. Recruiting of players is a 6+ year process usually with top programs talking to coaches when the player is in middle school (coaches / recruiters can't talk to players nor their family directly until after the player's high school freshman season - unless the player is playing up on a high school team and is at a tournament with approved college coaches look in, or the coach is at a game to watch a relative). That long term relationship is key and the coaches recruiting book is essential as that will likely follow the coach(es). That post-St. John's game discussion about what current players and high school players think about schools and coaches from their perspective really hit. A player is (mostly - the new 1 free transfer for players to not sit out changed a lot of things) looking at what will I get from this coach over my four years. The best college programs in the NCAA tournament are almost all programs that have built with four year plans and even red-shirting. Many of the NBA players after the top 10 to 15 come out of these programs with long builds (one and done years have been over for two or three years). This long process is also where age of the coach comes in. I know a couple local players in the DMV who had Boeheim recruit them a few years back and age was an important consideration as they weren't sure about four years with a coach. Pitino is about 8 years younger, but a long term coach and relationship comes up and can be important to players. Pitino has serious lore. But, to players now? Being able to get the right players and over the next 4 to 6 years build the Hoya program back, from a player's perspective? I don't know (not saying he can't, just exactly that I don't know). As an alum and long time Hoya fan, and huge fan of the game, I would love to see a Hoya coach rebuild and have something solid for 10 years or much longer. Pitino and his assistants have always been able to recruit. A quick perusal of some his past rosters at Providence, Kentucky and Louisville: Jamal Mashburn, Tony Delk, Antoine Walker, Ron Merce, Billy Donovan, Derek Anderson, Russ Smith, Wayne Turner, Francisco Garcia, Nazr Mohammed, Donovan Mitchell, Terrance Williams, Earl Clark, Samardo Samuels, Montrezl Harrell, Peyton Siva, Rodrick Rhodes, Travis Ford, Walter McCarty, Mark Pope, Scott Padgett, Jamaal Magloire, and Edgar Sosa. Almost all of those guys ended up in the NBA. Also, Pitino has been able to build staffs and attract great assistants. Here's a partial list of his some his past assistants: Mick Cronin, Scott Davenport, Billy Donovan, Travis Ford, Marvin Menzies, Richard Pitino, Kareem Richardson, Steve Masiello, Herb Sendek, Tubby Smith, Reggie Theus, Kevin Willard, Sean Woods, Jeff Van Gundy, Jim O' Brien, Herb Sendek, Frank Vogel, Ralph Willard, and Kevin Keatts. In all likelihood, Pitino not only will be able to recruit an all star bench but it's just as likely there's assistant already at Iona who is a strong candidate. Finally, I'd be willing to be that the portals will open if and when Pitino ends up a high major school like Georgetown. The fact of the matter is that recruiting HS players is not as important as it was. Look at Iowa State or Kansas State where a coach arrives and builds a roster through the portal. It's even arguable that a better coach -- i.e. anyone else -- could have taking the Nickelberry All Stars that Georgetown has and turned it into a winning team. I understand when people who don't really pay attention think that Pitino is some shady character ... it's wrong, but I understand it. What is not understandable is the anyone who even casually follows college basketball could think that Pitino can't recruit in any environment. |
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Post by oldhoyafan3 on Feb 28, 2023 11:13:51 GMT -5
^ Amen practice!
Immediate buzz around the program, media exposure (hell, even the WaPo may even cover us again)
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1427hoya
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 352
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Post by 1427hoya on Feb 28, 2023 11:20:29 GMT -5
We absolutely do not need a extensive "national coaching search" after this disgraceful era ends.
Any talk of a "national coaching search" is code language. It means it will be a smoke and mirrors charade so that the losers who screwed up the program can find a way to have their approved guy hired to keep screwing it up. Don't fall for this.
The names of the coaches who are the right fits and who should be considered/interviewed are known and obvious. This isn't rocket science. Don't trust anyone who tries to over-complicate this.
There are a lot of buzzwords to look for in the coming weeks that should make Hoya fans concerned
"National coaching search" - not needed. Smoke and mirrors
"The Hoya family" - no, that is why we are in the mess we're in. This might be used to keep Ronny around.
"The Georgetown way" - We don't need a "way." Don't look for ways to eliminate good coaches. Just win with integrity.
"ties to the program" - I appreciate the history of the program and anyone taking the job should respect it, but we don't always need someone with direct ties to the past. Why?
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alleninxis
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,216
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Post by alleninxis on Feb 28, 2023 11:21:53 GMT -5
Recruiting does not matter anymore. At least not in the traditional sense - you're not getting classes of 3,4,5 Top 150 players and watching them through their JR and SR seasons. It's over. Give me a coach who can evaluate correctly, develop and fit pieces together on the fly. Continuity is a bonus if you get it.
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thedragon
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Posts: 2,428
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Post by thedragon on Feb 28, 2023 11:24:52 GMT -5
I agree with you in what Pitino can do. The draw of Pitino with players is important and the last eight years (and particularly six years) is important for players. I don't know what his recruiting book looks like these days, likely decent. Recruiting is about brand and relationship, the second part is most important. Recruiting of players is a 6+ year process usually with top programs talking to coaches when the player is in middle school (coaches / recruiters can't talk to players nor their family directly until after the player's high school freshman season - unless the player is playing up on a high school team and is at a tournament with approved college coaches look in, or the coach is at a game to watch a relative). That long term relationship is key and the coaches recruiting book is essential as that will likely follow the coach(es). That post-St. John's game discussion about what current players and high school players think about schools and coaches from their perspective really hit. A player is (mostly - the new 1 free transfer for players to not sit out changed a lot of things) looking at what will I get from this coach over my four years. The best college programs in the NCAA tournament are almost all programs that have built with four year plans and even red-shirting. Many of the NBA players after the top 10 to 15 come out of these programs with long builds (one and done years have been over for two or three years). This long process is also where age of the coach comes in. I know a couple local players in the DMV who had Boeheim recruit them a few years back and age was an important consideration as they weren't sure about four years with a coach. Pitino is about 8 years younger, but a long term coach and relationship comes up and can be important to players. Pitino has serious lore. But, to players now? Being able to get the right players and over the next 4 to 6 years build the Hoya program back, from a player's perspective? I don't know (not saying he can't, just exactly that I don't know). As an alum and long time Hoya fan, and huge fan of the game, I would love to see a Hoya coach rebuild and have something solid for 10 years or much longer. Pitino and his assistants have always been able to recruit. A quick perusal of some his past rosters at Providence, Kentucky and Louisville: Jamal Mashburn, Tony Delk, Antoine Walker, Ron Merce, Billy Donovan, Derek Anderson, Russ Smith, Wayne Turner, Francisco Garcia, Nazr Mohammed, Donovan Mitchell, Terrance Williams, Earl Clark, Samardo Samuels, Montrezl Harrell, Peyton Siva, Rodrick Rhodes, Travis Ford, Walter McCarty, Mark Pope, Scott Padgett, Jamaal Magloire, and Edgar Sosa. Almost all of those guys ended up in the NBA. Also, Pitino has been able to build staffs and attract great assistants. Here's a partial list of his some his past assistants: Mick Cronin, Scott Davenport, Billy Donovan, Travis Ford, Marvin Menzies, Richard Pitino, Kareem Richardson, Steve Masiello, Herb Sendek, Tubby Smith, Reggie Theus, Kevin Willard, Sean Woods, Jeff Van Gundy, Jim O' Brien, Herb Sendek, Frank Vogel, Ralph Willard, and Kevin Keatts. In all likelihood, Pitino not only will be able to recruit an all star bench but it's just as likely there's assistant already at Iona who is a strong candidate. Finally, I'd be willing to be that the portals will open if and when Pitino ends up a high major school like Georgetown. The fact of the matter is that recruiting HS players is not as important as it was. Look at Iowa State or Kansas State where a coach arrives and builds a roster through the portal. It's even arguable that a better coach -- i.e. anyone else -- could have taking the Nickelberry All Stars that Georgetown has and turned it into a winning team. I understand when people who don't really pay attention think that Pitino is some shady character ... it's wrong, but I understand it. What is not understandable is the anyone who even casually follows college basketball could think that Pitino can't recruit in any environment. "I understand when people who don't really pay attention think that Pitino is some shady character ... it's wrong, but I understand it." LOL. I think plenty of people who pay lots of attention would not share this characterization. I understand when people think Pitino is the only coach we should hire for the job and are willing to look past his prior indiscretions on and off the court to get to that conclusion...its wrong, but I understand it. See how that works...  |
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