Head Coaches Discussion

[CTHoya08]

I don't understand, and never have understood, the complaints about the Princeton Offense. Those 2005-06, 2006-07, and 2007-08 teams were all very Princetony, and all won a lot. JTIII certainly had his struggles in following years, but I don't get the knee-jerk reaction to any coach that does "Princeton" stuff. Dennis Gates wins. Ed Cooley wins. I don't care if their offenses are "Princeton," "Flex," "Motion," or whatever. I can't believe that, after what we've endured over the past eight years or so, any Hoya fan is seriously writing off a coaching candidate based on the aesthetics of his preferred offensive system.

[rhw485]

Feb 27, 2023 14:15:22 GMT -5 CTHoya08 said:

I don't understand, and never have understood, the complaints about the Princeton Offense. Those 2005-06, 2006-07, and 2007-08 teams were all very Princetony, and all won a lot. JTIII certainly had his struggles in following years, but I don't get the knee-jerk reaction to any coach that does "Princeton" stuff. Dennis Gates wins. Ed Cooley wins. I don't care if their offenses are "Princeton," "Flex," "Motion," or whatever. I can't believe that, after what we've endured over the past eight years or so, any Hoya fan is seriously writing off a coaching candidate based on the aesthetics of his preferred offensive system.

I think a few things can be true:

• The truest form of the Princeton offense, that largely lived on backdoor cuts and 2 man off-ball exchanges, was highly successful and efficient during the peak JT3 
• That version of the offense really ran into two issues.  One, officiating of holding on those off-ball cuts vs. how much easier it is for refs to call fouls that happen more directly on the ball.  You can basically see when the foul differential for Gtown flipped.  Two, if you don't have 5 viable 3 point threats on the court, all the spacing can get muddied up by having a defender sag into the lane and snuff out the cuts.
• I think when people are saying Princeton concepts at this point, it's mostly just the 5 out point.  Sure there will be the occasional backdoor.  But teams are now using that spacing to set up dribble hand offs and "zoom" actions.  It's basically made it easier for teams to get into ball screen action with proper spacing and has made it tougher for defenses to do their normal counters.  When the ball handler is constant and the screener is just running up, it's much easier to trap / blitz  or ice the screen if you want ( we see this every game).  When you bake it into a dribble hand off, it's much tougher.

But also yes I don't particularly care about offensive scheme at this point.  I absolutely care about defensive schemes and principles after watching something so broken for so many years.  But I'll fully admit i'm all aboard on Pitino and not overthinking what schemes he's running.

[RBHoya]

Feb 27, 2023 14:00:38 GMT -5 SDHoya said:

I agree that Pitino should be the first call. But even if admin does that, Pitino has some say in this as well, and there is no guarantee he will say yes (even though recent media clippings seem to hint he's interested). Until Pitino has signed on the dotted line, it would be foolish not to have some back-up options. As much as I think Cooley would be great for the Hoyas, the more reasonable back up options are Mack and Holtmann.

Agree with this. Pitino should be right at the top of the list, but talking about others doesn't mean we're lightening up on the administration. Any good decision making process will allow for a number of contingency plans, rather than putting all the eggs in one basket. You just never know. Plus it's a message board and kicking around other ideas is part of the appeal

What happens if Texas or some other bigger fish (maybe Ohio State if they ditch Holtmann?) makes a play for Pitino? All in for Pitino makes sense if we're clearly the best opportunity for him, ie. if it's just us vs. St. Johns and USF.  But while that's been speculated, we're not REALLY certain that's the case.

If Cooley turns us down (likely, IMO) and Pitino does not work out for one reason or another, it does not necessarily mean that we're in disaster/panic territory. There are other pretty good options--maybe it won't be a homerun, but a stand-up double would be alright. What we can't afford is to make a hire for what are obviously the wrong reasons--things like:

-What is the candidates connection to Georgetown Basketball/The Thompson family?
-What would John Thompson Jr. think about this candidate?
-What caliber of academic institution has the candidate worked at previously?
-What would the perception of this hire be among university presidents/educational elites at peer universities (or schools we WANT to be our peers)?

-What is the candidate's racial/ethnic background, gender, sexual preference, etc.?

-Which hire would bring the least amount of critical media coverage?

Or a handful of others. 

[guru]

Fascinating to wonder what kind of roster we'd put together next year if Pitino is the choice (long shot, I still think).

Who would stay from the current group? How much talent could he bring in on short(ish) notice? What highly ranked recruits are still undecided? Would his Iona signees follow him?

Part of the intrigue in the potential Pitino hire is to see exactly how he would go about rebuilding an entire program - hopefully without hookers and cash

[RBHoya]

Feb 27, 2023 14:33:41 GMT -5 guru said:

Fascinating to wonder what kind of roster we'd put together next year if Pitino is the choice (long shot, I still think).

Who would stay from the current group? How much talent could he bring in on short(ish) notice? What highly ranked recruits are still undecided? Would his Iona signees follow him?

Part of the intrigue in the potential Pitino hire is to see exactly how he would go about rebuilding an entire program - hopefully without hookers and cash

I know I'm a broken record on this, but a lot depends on how quickly a deal gets done. You're going to start to hear a LOT of players putting themselves in the portal VERY soon, as lower level conference tournaments get going and teams play their last games of the year. Schools with head coaches locked in will be aggressively pursuing those players immediately, and in some cases they'll commit within a week or two. If anybody watched how quickly this played out on the football side a couple months ago, you know that this can move at a BREAKNECK pace. If we sit around with our thumbs up our a$$es for an extra week or two trying to make nice with Ewing and Falk or trying to gather the BoD to formally vote or whatever the hell else, we're going to fall behind. Every day counts. A coach like Pitino, coming to a school like Georgetown where the perception is going to be "he can compete at a national title level again", has all the clout we need to be a player in the portal and rebuild this thing quickly. But if it doesn't happen until April, we have to adjust down expectations for next year accordingly, because we'll be putting him at a disadvantage in acquiring talent for next year.

And think about how crucial it is in the new landscape to come out strong in year one. Just look at Butler, who made a hire that most people thought was stellar last spring, but didn't have a good first season. It's a major uphill battle to change that perception. It used to be that when you hired a new coach to a rebuilding program, the record the first couple years didn't really matter. "Wait and see how it goes until his own recruits are upperclassmen" used to be the prevailing wisdom. Today? No chance, nobody is that patient in this era of player movement. People expect QUICK turnarounds (Sean Miller, Jerome Tang, Dennis Gates, et. al) and if you have a bad first year people are quick to question you (Matta, Neptune, etc.). You'll get some positive momentum coming into a new gig, and you have to be at least good enough in year one to continue the perception that you're on an upward trajectory.

Getting the right guy is the most important thing, but getting him quickly is also extremely important. With a coach like Pitino in place and working the portal by this time 3 weeks from today, there's a real chance we could turn it around dramatically by next year.

FWIW, I wouldn't worry too much about which highly regarded recruits are unsigned--much rather hit the portal and have 1 or 2 freshmen tops. Wouldn't worry about if his Iona guys will follow either--some might be good enough to come over, but wouldn't expect there to be more than 1 to 2 tops who will be good enough and want to make the move. And honestly, not worried much about returning guys either. No disrespect to them, but I expect most will explore their options after another embarrassing year, and that's ok by me. Let's let a new, much better staff build their own vision without encumbrances.

[hsaxon]

Feb 27, 2023 15:23:40 GMT -5 RBHoya said:

Feb 27, 2023 14:33:41 GMT -5 guru said:

Fascinating to wonder what kind of roster we'd put together next year if Pitino is the choice (long shot, I still think).

Who would stay from the current group? How much talent could he bring in on short(ish) notice? What highly ranked recruits are still undecided? Would his Iona signees follow him?

Part of the intrigue in the potential Pitino hire is to see exactly how he would go about rebuilding an entire program - hopefully without hookers and cash

I know I'm a broken record on this, but a lot depends on how quickly a deal gets done. You're going to start to hear a LOT of players putting themselves in the portal VERY soon, as lower level conference tournaments get going and teams play their last games of the year. Schools with head coaches locked in will be aggressively pursuing those players immediately, and in some cases they'll commit within a week or two. If anybody watched how quickly this played out on the football side a couple months ago, you know that this can move at a BREAKNECK pace. If we sit around with our thumbs up our a$$es for an extra week or two trying to make nice with Ewing and Falk or trying to gather the BoD to formally vote or whatever the hell else, we're going to fall behind. Every day counts. A coach like Pitino, coming to a school like Georgetown where the perception is going to be "he can compete at a national title level again", has all the clout we need to be a player in the portal and rebuild this thing quickly. But if it doesn't happen until April, we have to adjust down expectations for next year accordingly, because we'll be putting him at a disadvantage in acquiring talent for next year.

And think about how crucial it is in the new landscape to come out strong in year one. Just look at Butler, who made a hire that most people thought was stellar last spring, but didn't have a good first season. It's a major uphill battle to change that perception. It used to be that when you hired a new coach to a rebuilding program, the record the first couple years didn't really matter. "Wait and see how it goes until his own recruits are upperclassmen" used to be the prevailing wisdom. Today? No chance, nobody is that patient in this era of player movement. People expect QUICK turnarounds (Sean Miller, Jerome Tang, Dennis Gates, et. al) and if you have a bad first year people are quick to question you (Matta, Neptune, etc.). You'll get some positive momentum coming into a new gig, and you have to be at least good enough in year one to continue the perception that you're on an upward trajectory.

Getting the right guy is the most important thing, but getting him quickly is also extremely important. With a coach like Pitino in place and working the portal by this time 3 weeks from today, there's a real chance we could turn it around dramatically by next year.

FWIW, I wouldn't worry too much about which highly regarded recruits are unsigned--much rather hit the portal and have 1 or 2 freshmen tops. Wouldn't worry about if his Iona guys will follow either--some might be good enough to come over, but wouldn't expect there to be more than 1 to 2 tops who will be good enough and want to make the move. And honestly, not worried much about returning guys either. No disrespect to them, but I expect most will explore their options after another embarrassing year, and that's ok by me. Let's let a new, much better staff build their own vision without encumbrances.

Yes, getting the right guy and getting him quickly.  I, too, am fully on board with Pitino.  I wonder if the president is?

[EtomicB]

Feb 27, 2023 14:29:18 GMT -5 rhw485 said:

Feb 27, 2023 14:15:22 GMT -5 CTHoya08 said:

I don't understand, and never have understood, the complaints about the Princeton Offense. Those 2005-06, 2006-07, and 2007-08 teams were all very Princetony, and all won a lot. JTIII certainly had his struggles in following years, but I don't get the knee-jerk reaction to any coach that does "Princeton" stuff. Dennis Gates wins. Ed Cooley wins. I don't care if their offenses are "Princeton," "Flex," "Motion," or whatever. I can't believe that, after what we've endured over the past eight years or so, any Hoya fan is seriously writing off a coaching candidate based on the aesthetics of his preferred offensive system.

I think a few things can be true:

• The truest form of the Princeton offense, that largely lived on backdoor cuts and 2 man off-ball exchanges, was highly successful and efficient during the peak JT3 
• That version of the offense really ran into two issues.  One, officiating of holding on those off-ball cuts vs. how much easier it is for refs to call fouls that happen more directly on the ball.  You can basically see when the foul differential for Gtown flipped.  Two, if you don't have 5 viable 3 point threats on the court, all the spacing can get muddied up by having a defender sag into the lane and snuff out the cuts.
• I think when people are saying Princeton concepts at this point, it's mostly just the 5 out point.  Sure there will be the occasional backdoor.  But teams are now using that spacing to set up dribble hand offs and "zoom" actions.  It's basically made it easier for teams to get into ball screen action with proper spacing and has made it tougher for defenses to do their normal counters.  When the ball handler is constant and the screener is just running up, it's much easier to trap / blitz  or ice the screen if you want ( we see this every game).  When you bake it into a dribble hand off, it's much tougher.

But also yes I don't particularly care about offensive scheme at this point.  I absolutely care about defensive schemes and principles after watching something so broken for so many years.  But I'll fully admit i'm all aboard on Pitino and not overthinking what schemes he's running.

I believe having 5 players with ball skills is the key to open offenses, see how well Marquette plays with Oso who can't shoot 3's at the 5.

JT3's latter teams didn't have that..

[CTHoya08]

Feb 27, 2023 15:23:40 GMT -5 RBHoya said:

Feb 27, 2023 14:33:41 GMT -5 guru said:

Fascinating to wonder what kind of roster we'd put together next year if Pitino is the choice (long shot, I still think).

Who would stay from the current group? How much talent could he bring in on short(ish) notice? What highly ranked recruits are still undecided? Would his Iona signees follow him?

Part of the intrigue in the potential Pitino hire is to see exactly how he would go about rebuilding an entire program - hopefully without hookers and cash

I know I'm a broken record on this, but a lot depends on how quickly a deal gets done. You're going to start to hear a LOT of players putting themselves in the portal VERY soon, as lower level conference tournaments get going and teams play their last games of the year. Schools with head coaches locked in will be aggressively pursuing those players immediately, and in some cases they'll commit within a week or two. If anybody watched how quickly this played out on the football side a couple months ago, you know that this can move at a BREAKNECK pace. If we sit around with our thumbs up our a$$es for an extra week or two trying to make nice with Ewing and Falk or trying to gather the BoD to formally vote or whatever the hell else, we're going to fall behind. Every day counts. A coach like Pitino, coming to a school like Georgetown where the perception is going to be "he can compete at a national title level again", has all the clout we need to be a player in the portal and rebuild this thing quickly. But if it doesn't happen until April, we have to adjust down expectations for next year accordingly, because we'll be putting him at a disadvantage in acquiring talent for next year.

And think about how crucial it is in the new landscape to come out strong in year one. Just look at Butler, who made a hire that most people thought was stellar last spring, but didn't have a good first season. It's a major uphill battle to change that perception. It used to be that when you hired a new coach to a rebuilding program, the record the first couple years didn't really matter. "Wait and see how it goes until his own recruits are upperclassmen" used to be the prevailing wisdom. Today? No chance, nobody is that patient in this era of player movement. People expect QUICK turnarounds (Sean Miller, Jerome Tang, Dennis Gates, et. al) and if you have a bad first year people are quick to question you (Matta, Neptune, etc.). You'll get some positive momentum coming into a new gig, and you have to be at least good enough in year one to continue the perception that you're on an upward trajectory.

Getting the right guy is the most important thing, but getting him quickly is also extremely important. With a coach like Pitino in place and working the portal by this time 3 weeks from today, there's a real chance we could turn it around dramatically by next year.

FWIW, I wouldn't worry too much about which highly regarded recruits are unsigned--much rather hit the portal and have 1 or 2 freshmen tops. Wouldn't worry about if his Iona guys will follow either--some might be good enough to come over, but wouldn't expect there to be more than 1 to 2 tops who will be good enough and want to make the move. And honestly, not worried much about returning guys either. No disrespect to them, but I expect most will explore their options after another embarrassing year, and that's ok by me. Let's let a new, much better staff build their own vision without encumbrances.

I'll just add one caveat, which is that I hope a handful of players do stay, simply for APR purposes. I have my preferences about which ones they would be from a basketball perspective, but obviously I know a lot less about who would fit in with what the new coach will want to do than that coach will. But the nightmare scenario, for me, is that we get a new coach in just in time for the NCAA to start enforcing APR penalties and hamstring him from the jump. I think a coach like Pitino can probably get on pretty well with less than a full complement of scholarships, but I'd like to see our APR tick upward.

I guess the ideal would be that everyone who could potentially graduate this year does so and moves on (regardless of remaining eligibility) and a handful of the underclassmen stay on, which would probably still leave sufficient room for the new coach to bring in his own guys without requiring an LSU-style full-roster exodus. But with all of the transfers, I honestly have no idea who is actually slated to graduate this spring.

[wponds]

Feb 27, 2023 14:33:41 GMT -5 guru said:

Fascinating to wonder what kind of roster we'd put together next year if Pitino is the choice (long shot, I still think).

Who would stay from the current group? How much talent could he bring in on short(ish) notice? What highly ranked recruits are still undecided? Would his Iona signees follow him?

Part of the intrigue in the potential Pitino hire is to see exactly how he would go about rebuilding an entire program - hopefully without hookers and cash

Agree, now that the season is finally almost over, it's something fun to think about.


I'm hoping we keep a handful of guys that, under a better situation, could prove how valuable they really are - Riley and Akok come to mind. I also like what Heath can bring to the table on offense


Pitino (and whatever assistants he'd bring) would definitely have quite the appeal in the portal. I haven't watched much Iona, but some key players are Daniss Jenkins (jr), Walter Clayton (so), and Nelly Junior Joseph (jr). Also have Cruz Davis who's a freshman


In terms of highly rated recruits, there aren't that many out there aside from Bronny unless Cal leaves Kentucky and those guys decommit - 4 in the top 10. But overall, i'd expect us to get more from the portal and maybe a juco kid or two, depending on how many slots we end up having

[saxagael]

There are a few things that have been hoping that Geogetown is looking beyond just Pitino. One is the rumors since Brey at ND announced his retirement Petino has had strong interest (no idea if the interest goes both directions). ND is a program in good shape and having a top football program means they also have money.

The other thing that caught my attention was the discussion after the St. John's game by analysts and talking about the Georgetown brand it currently doesn't have the draw it once did. The analysts talked about Georgetown being the "it" program for years, but kids today often don't know it as what it was and a potential top destination, it is their parents that do.

That ha me thinking about Pitino and what players think of him that are being recruited for college and top program coaches. I did a quick check with a friend who was recruited by Pitino and committed to him, but Pitino left and he went elsewhere, but did get his NCAA ring, and he say none of his players know who Pitino is. One of his players was getting attention from Pitino to go to Iona, but the player didn't know Pitino nor Iona and went to an SEC school. Pitino's stay at Louisville was too short and then gone and then went to Iona, which wasn't on their map of schools consider. I asked a couple players that committed already and they have no idea who Pitino is and only a rough idea of who he was and what he did. Coaches to have some top players in the nation said pretty much the same for their players as well he isn't someone they know nor at a program they would consider.

The players know Hurley and UConn, Smart and Marquette, and Cooley and Providence. They also know the ACC, Big10, and schools like Gonzaga and other mid-majors that repeatedly go to the NCAA tournament as top basketball schools with good coaches.

While most of us know Pitino and his legacy can he draw players? What does he have for a long run rebuild and set the program on good footing for years to come?

[SDHoya]

Feb 27, 2023 18:16:51 GMT -5 saxagael said:

That ha me thinking about Pitino and what players think of him that are being recruited for college and top program coaches. I did a quick check with a friend who was recruited by Pitino and committed to him, but Pitino left and he went elsewhere, but did get his NCAA ring, and he say none of his players know who Pitino is. One of his players was getting attention from Pitino to go to Iona, but the player didn't know Pitino nor Iona and went to an SEC school. Pitino's stay at Louisville was too short and then gone and then went to Iona, which wasn't on their map of schools consider. I asked a couple players that committed already and they have no idea who Pitino is and only a rough idea of who he was and what he did. Coaches to have some top players in the nation said pretty much the same for their players as well he isn't someone they know nor at a program they would consider.

Huh? Pitino was at Louisville for 16 years (not to mention eight years at UK and his several other NBA and college stops). I am not concerned about Pitino's name recognition. He'll find plenty of high level high school recruits and transfers who will be very familiar with his record. Most importantly, Pitino is an exceptional developer of talent and in game coach.

[hoyaguy]

Feb 27, 2023 18:16:51 GMT -5 saxagael said:

While most of us know Pitino and his legacy can he draw players? What does he have for a long run rebuild and set the program on good footing for years to come?

I feel like that could be said of any mid major coach because how many players know Mccasland? We realistically are not stealing another highly regarded high major coach. Pitino will be known by any HS or AAU coaches which is a plus instead of starting fresh with a younger coach. Also while pitino’s age may be an issue for some, is it not also a valid concern that if we some how strike gold with an up and comer, then he gets stolen? If that scenario were to play out then I think i would trust pitino more with building for the future since he knows his time with us would be limited and would not want his rebuild to fall apart after he left. It’s a lot of hypotheticals, but I think his credentials are too numerous to ignore from a recruit’s perspective like just wear his rings to a meeting and that could speak for itself.

And part of reviving the brand is being talked about on espn and major sports media in positive ways which could be achieved by making a splash with the new coach. There’s no way hiring Jones or even Brey would even create half the stories Pitino would

I did not get deep into CBB until college, but if I was a recruit in high school without much knowledge of coaches and I had to choose between Pitino and Mccasland (let’s just say they coached at equal schools). I’m going with the dude who has rings and put players in the NBA (no disrespect to Mccasland tho, I would like to have him but multiple texas jobs will be open).

There should be back up plans but he is the best and cheapest choice when it comes to talent.

[thedragon]

Feb 27, 2023 19:12:15 GMT -5 hoyaguy said:

Feb 27, 2023 18:16:51 GMT -5 saxagael said:

While most of us know Pitino and his legacy can he draw players? What does he have for a long run rebuild and set the program on good footing for years to come?

I feel like that could be said of any mid major coach because how many players know Mccasland? We realistically are not stealing another highly regarded high major coach. Pitino will be known by any HS or AAU coaches which is a plus instead of starting fresh with a younger coach. Also while pitino’s age may be an issue for some, is it not also a valid concern that if we some how strike gold with an up and comer, then he gets stolen? If that scenario were to play out then I think i would trust pitino more with building for the future since he knows his time with us would be limited and would not want his rebuild to fall apart after he left. It’s a lot of hypotheticals, but I think his credentials are too numerous to ignore from a recruit’s perspective like just wear his rings to a meeting and that could speak for itself.

And part of reviving the brand is being talked about on espn and major sports media in positive ways which could be achieved by making a splash with the new coach. There’s no way hiring Jones or even Brey would even create half the stories Pitino would

I did not get deep into CBB until college, but if I was a recruit in high school without much knowledge of coaches and I had to choose between Pitino and Mccasland (let’s just say they coached at equal schools). I’m going with the dude who has rings and put players in the NBA (no disrespect to Mccasland tho, I would like to have him but multiple texas jobs will be open).

There should be back up plans but he is the best and cheapest choice when it comes to talent.

Pitino for the most part does not recruit 5 stars or one and dones. I'm not disagreeing with the majority of your point - but of all Pitinos strengths, recruiting (at least as far as star power) was never his biggest strength - even with that name recognition. I don't think the 2013 championship team had a single 5 star OR NBA player if I remember correctly.

[hoyasaxa2003]

As others said, the real key quality about Pitino is that he’s an excellent teacher and coach. He’s done a ton (and quickly) at a low major program in a one bid league. So I don’t really care if high school recruits know who he is—if he comes to Georgetown and wins they’ll suddenly learn who he is.

Pitino could frankly recruit at mediocre levels and likely still contend to win the Big East. He’s that good a coach. And if we win, the recruits will come just as they did following our Sweet 16 and Final Four in 2006 and 2007.

[EtomicB]

[DonkDonk]

-What is the candidates connection to Georgetown Basketball/The Thompson family?
-What would John Thompson Jr. think about this candidate?
-What caliber of academic institution has the candidate worked at previously?
-What would the perception of this hire be among university presidents/educational elites at peer universities (or schools we WANT to be our peers)?

-What is the candidate's racial/ethnic background, gender, sexual preference, etc.?

-Which hire would bring the least amount of critical media coverage?

Or a handful of others. 

[/quote]

These are literally the ONLY questions Jack can contemplate.

[thedragon]

Feb 27, 2023 15:23:40 GMT -5 RBHoya said:

Feb 27, 2023 14:33:41 GMT -5 guru said:

Fascinating to wonder what kind of roster we'd put together next year if Pitino is the choice (long shot, I still think).

Who would stay from the current group? How much talent could he bring in on short(ish) notice? What highly ranked recruits are still undecided? Would his Iona signees follow him?

Part of the intrigue in the potential Pitino hire is to see exactly how he would go about rebuilding an entire program - hopefully without hookers and cash

I know I'm a broken record on this, but a lot depends on how quickly a deal gets done. You're going to start to hear a LOT of players putting themselves in the portal VERY soon, as lower level conference tournaments get going and teams play their last games of the year. Schools with head coaches locked in will be aggressively pursuing those players immediately, and in some cases they'll commit within a week or two. If anybody watched how quickly this played out on the football side a couple months ago, you know that this can move at a BREAKNECK pace. If we sit around with our thumbs up our a$$es for an extra week or two trying to make nice with Ewing and Falk or trying to gather the BoD to formally vote or whatever the hell else, we're going to fall behind. Every day counts. A coach like Pitino, coming to a school like Georgetown where the perception is going to be "he can compete at a national title level again", has all the clout we need to be a player in the portal and rebuild this thing quickly. But if it doesn't happen until April, we have to adjust down expectations for next year accordingly, because we'll be putting him at a disadvantage in acquiring talent for next year.

And think about how crucial it is in the new landscape to come out strong in year one. Just look at Butler, who made a hire that most people thought was stellar last spring, but didn't have a good first season. It's a major uphill battle to change that perception. It used to be that when you hired a new coach to a rebuilding program, the record the first couple years didn't really matter. "Wait and see how it goes until his own recruits are upperclassmen" used to be the prevailing wisdom. Today? No chance, nobody is that patient in this era of player movement. People expect QUICK turnarounds (Sean Miller, Jerome Tang, Dennis Gates, et. al) and if you have a bad first year people are quick to question you (Matta, Neptune, etc.). You'll get some positive momentum coming into a new gig, and you have to be at least good enough in year one to continue the perception that you're on an upward trajectory.

Getting the right guy is the most important thing, but getting him quickly is also extremely important. With a coach like Pitino in place and working the portal by this time 3 weeks from today, there's a real chance we could turn it around dramatically by next year.

FWIW, I wouldn't worry too much about which highly regarded recruits are unsigned--much rather hit the portal and have 1 or 2 freshmen tops. Wouldn't worry about if his Iona guys will follow either--some might be good enough to come over, but wouldn't expect there to be more than 1 to 2 tops who will be good enough and want to make the move. And honestly, not worried much about returning guys either. No disrespect to them, but I expect most will explore their options after another embarrassing year, and that's ok by me. Let's let a new, much better staff build their own vision without encumbrances.

You know full well that the chance Gtown doesn't play with its food for a week. Suck it's thumb for week. Play footsie with Falk for a week. Hold a kumbaya vigil for a week. And then get started 3 weeks late is slim at best!

[hoyaguy]

Feb 27, 2023 21:00:39 GMT -5 thedragon said:

Feb 27, 2023 19:12:15 GMT -5 hoyaguy said:

I feel like that could be said of any mid major coach because how many players know Mccasland? We realistically are not stealing another highly regarded high major coach. Pitino will be known by any HS or AAU coaches which is a plus instead of starting fresh with a younger coach. Also while pitino’s age may be an issue for some, is it not also a valid concern that if we some how strike gold with an up and comer, then he gets stolen? If that scenario were to play out then I think i would trust pitino more with building for the future since he knows his time with us would be limited and would not want his rebuild to fall apart after he left. It’s a lot of hypotheticals, but I think his credentials are too numerous to ignore from a recruit’s perspective like just wear his rings to a meeting and that could speak for itself.

And part of reviving the brand is being talked about on espn and major sports media in positive ways which could be achieved by making a splash with the new coach. There’s no way hiring Jones or even Brey would even create half the stories Pitino would

I did not get deep into CBB until college, but if I was a recruit in high school without much knowledge of coaches and I had to choose between Pitino and Mccasland (let’s just say they coached at equal schools). I’m going with the dude who has rings and put players in the NBA (no disrespect to Mccasland tho, I would like to have him but multiple texas jobs will be open).

There should be back up plans but he is the best and cheapest choice when it comes to talent.

Pitino for the most part does not recruit 5 stars or one and dones. I'm not disagreeing with the majority of your point - but of all Pitinos strengths, recruiting (at least as far as star power) was never his biggest strength - even with that name recognition. I don't think the 2013 championship team had a single 5 star OR NBA player if I remember correctly.

If anything that’s a strength because I was so tired of the “team is not talented enough” narrative in recent years when teams of 3 stars can make it to the second weekend. But the same idea applies that he can recruit and his credentials speak for themselves

[hoyasaxa2003]

Feb 27, 2023 21:38:19 GMT -5 EtomicB said:

The real key is whether Kelsey has a buyout. If he can leave without any major buyout the extension is really just paper.

[hoyaguy]

Feb 27, 2023 22:47:43 GMT -5 hoyasaxa2003 said:

Feb 27, 2023 21:38:19 GMT -5 EtomicB said:

The real key is whether Kelsey has a buyout. If he can leave without any major buyout the extension is really just paper.

I think someone said it was $5 million which really is just for the school to get paid when a HM calls