Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2022 9:47:03 GMT -5
I guarantee if Georgetown has a good season next year none of you guys will care one bit these kids are transfers. Kentucky and Duke fans don't seem to find it difficult to support their kids and they basically have a new team every year... This is just plain sillinesses. Look at the reasons for roster turnover at Duke/Kentucky compared to Georgetown. The former are programmatic change due to the recruitment of elite players moving on to the NBA. The latter, desperation due to a highly incompetent program lead who could not find a HC promotion in the NBA so he backed into a consolation prize. Yeah, but I'm not disputing that. The question is if the team wins will you find it difficult to root for the "program" based on the circumstances that brought them here? I doubt that will be the case. Fans care about wins and losses. And if we're talking about the "casual fan" that DFW references that's even more so. Am I wrong?
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2022 9:56:40 GMT -5
I guarantee if Georgetown has a good season next year none of you guys will care one bit these kids are transfers. Kentucky and Duke fans don't seem to find it difficult to support their kids and they basically have a new team every year... I would say the difference is that Kentucky and Duke see players leave for the NBA or kids who didn’t get minutes transfer. We are losing some of our starters to transfer. Also, our recruiting is not at their level, so the transfers are not easily upgraded. Hoping Nickelberry can work his magic because recruits aren’t buying what Pat’s selling. Agree that winning goes a long way to tolerate the ugly realities of college hoops. You can say that about Duke and UK players as well. They're mercenaries. They don't graduate. It's a constant revolving door. The difference is they win games. If this bunch wins games people will support. If they do not, they won't. Fans care about results, and the fact the results are bad is what makes it difficult to root for the program, not the other things being referenced.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on May 18, 2022 10:10:18 GMT -5
This is just plain sillinesses. Look at the reasons for roster turnover at Duke/Kentucky compared to Georgetown. The former are programmatic change due to the recruitment of elite players moving on to the NBA. The latter, desperation due to a highly incompetent program lead who could not find a HC promotion in the NBA so he backed into a consolation prize. Yeah, but I'm not disputing that. The question is if the team wins will you find it difficult to root for the "program" based on the circumstances that brought them here? I doubt that will be the case. Fans care about wins and losses. And if we're talking about the "casual fan" that DFW references that's even more so. Am I wrong? I do find it difficult to root for Gtowns program which is terribly incompetent & apathetically run. However I have no problem rooting for the kids who suit up each year. There's a difference between the program & the players in my opinion
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2022 10:12:59 GMT -5
Yeah, but I'm not disputing that. The question is if the team wins will you find it difficult to root for the "program" based on the circumstances that brought them here? I doubt that will be the case. Fans care about wins and losses. And if we're talking about the "casual fan" that DFW references that's even more so. Am I wrong? I do find it difficult to root for Gtowns program which is terribly incompetent & apathetically run. However I have no problem rooting for the kids who suit up each year. There's a difference between the program & the players in my opinion If this team has a successful season next year will you find it difficult to root for the program?
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bluegray79
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Post by bluegray79 on May 18, 2022 10:25:27 GMT -5
"Welcome to Transfer U. (AKA Georgetown). Not so long ago, they recruited players out of HS who stayed, graduated, won consistently. Now it’s a constant revolving door of mercenaries. Yes, college hoops has changed. But Ewing really has made the program hard to root for."
Yes, college hoops has changed, and I am saddened knowing it won't ever again be what we had coming up. But to portray GU like this? What would you have it be in this age of NIL and players who see a college basketball landscape in front of them and seek to "succeed" within that landscape? I don't find it hard to root for this program because it's all I got. It's either root for them or...what? Is it perfection and all rainbows and sunshine? No. Is it imperfect in the most frustrating ways? Yes. But is it already better than last year and, therefore, reason for hope and optimism next season? Oh yeah. I can't do both -- I can't have my Hoyas and pull for them through thick and thin - - they are people who are putting it on the line and deserve our support. I can't do that AND pull back, disgusted with what I see and spread the negativity. I'm a complex human being capable of deep and sometimes conflicting emotions, but I'm not a happy person when I let the negativity rule.
Amidst all the imperfection and challenges, I'm choosing to root for the coaches and team from start to finish, and leave it all out there like I hope they will.
Go Hoyas!
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seaweed
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Post by seaweed on May 18, 2022 10:35:18 GMT -5
C'mon fellas. We really need to be nicer to each other. We are among the few remaining people on the planet that still care about Georgetown basketball and the circle gets smaller every week. If we had lives, we wouldn't spend any time on this website. So be nice to each other but bash the crud out of every player or coach ever associated with the program (except Don Carey of course...)? Not really buying that spin. As long as people wake up griping about our coach or players, no matter how they got here, I will wake up letting them know how I feel. The same folks who say "we never should have expected to win with that roster" are totally comfortable saying "the losses are all on Coach" and they don't even seem to notice their intellectual inconsistency.
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RBHoya
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Post by RBHoya on May 18, 2022 11:07:07 GMT -5
Being upset about the volume of transfers seems like being angry at a symptom rather than the core problem. Realistically other than Don most of the players who transferred were not good enough for the level we want to be at. Maybe some of them could have been 7th or 8th men on high major tournament teams by their junior or senior years, but talent-wise they were completely fungible. No offense to them personally, I'm sure they are all great guys. But we need better basketball players. Would you rather a ton of departures and a ton of new faces, or would you rather stink again? Because if we brought everybody from the 0-20 squad back there's no way we have a huge turnaround.
I think there's some conflating of "I'm upset with the direction of college basketball overall (NIL, transfer portal, no real loyalty to be found)" among long time college basketball fans, and general frustration with the quality of play from Georgetown over the last several years (Ewing era and end of the JT3 era). It's hard to argue with the latter, but the former is outside the control of anyone at Georgetown.
And I agree with the idea that everybody will get over the shock and dismay about roster turnover if the team is good. When we were winning the BET in 2021 was any grumbling about how we were doing it with the kid from Sienna who's on his 3rd school or a one year rental from Northwestern State? No. When the team is winning guys start to feel like "part of the family" really quickly. It all really hinges on winning. Is there reason to be skeptical that we WILL win next season? Absolutely. But for right now the leadership isn't going to change, so our best hope is that the new guys we've brought in can bring us back to respectability. If they can't, there will be plenty of time to complain about Ewing, Ronny and DeGioia again in February and March.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on May 18, 2022 11:13:55 GMT -5
I do find it difficult to root for Gtowns program which is terribly incompetent & apathetically run. However I have no problem rooting for the kids who suit up each year. There's a difference between the program & the players in my opinion If this team has a successful season next year will you find it difficult to root for the program? Yes. The program isn't the players. Unfortunately I'm a Cowboys and Mets fan. I can't stand Jones & I didn't like the Wilpons. Both of them have had a lot of success over their tenures which I have been happy to witness but I hate(d) the way they ran/run their teams. Same thing applies to Gtown for me..
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2022 11:21:29 GMT -5
If this team has a successful season next year will you find it difficult to root for the program? Yes. The program isn't the players. Unfortunately I'm a Cowboys and Mets fan. I can't stand Jones & I didn't like the Wilpons. Both of them have had a lot of success over their tenures which I have been happy to witness but I hate(d) the way they ran/run their teams. Same thing applies to Gtown for me.. I think it’s an odd take to say the players aren’t the program. How do you have a program without the players? You can say I don’t support the coach, front office, or the administration, but the program is a term that refers to everyone involved. You guys are trying to wiggle a bit imo.
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TC
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Post by TC on May 18, 2022 11:28:37 GMT -5
I think it’s an odd take to say the players aren’t the program. If you think a large proportion of the players were told they were no longer needed and that the program sees them as disposable (see transfer rate), I don't think it's an odd take to say the players aren't the program. The constants are the worst coach in Georgetown history and Ronny. They are "the program".
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on May 18, 2022 11:29:07 GMT -5
Folks have to stop pretending this transfer problem is new to Gtown.
Continually bringing up the portal & NIL is excuse making in my opinion
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2022 11:31:45 GMT -5
I think it’s an odd take to say the players aren’t the program. If you think a large proportion of the players were told they were no longer needed and that the program sees them as disposable (see transfer rate), I don't think it's an odd take to say the players aren't the program. So what happens when a coach gets told they are no longer needed? Will you then say coaches aren’t the program?
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on May 18, 2022 11:33:06 GMT -5
Yes. The program isn't the players. Unfortunately I'm a Cowboys and Mets fan. I can't stand Jones & I didn't like the Wilpons. Both of them have had a lot of success over their tenures which I have been happy to witness but I hate(d) the way they ran/run their teams. Same thing applies to Gtown for me.. I think it’s an odd take to say the players aren’t the program. How do you have a program without the players? You can say I don’t support the coach, front office, or the administration, but the program is a term that refers to everyone involved. You guys are trying to wiggle a bit imo. The program are the adult decision makers, the players aren't a part of that. I doubt you root for the way Gtown handles its business, am I correct?
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TC
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Post by TC on May 18, 2022 11:39:28 GMT -5
So what happens when a coach gets dismissed told they are no longer needed? Will you then say coaches aren’t the program? I think it's hard to make the argument you are making when our program has functioned through the dynastic succession of one family for 50 years.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2022 11:43:42 GMT -5
I think it’s an odd take to say the players aren’t the program. How do you have a program without the players? You can say I don’t support the coach, front office, or the administration, but the program is a term that refers to everyone involved. You guys are trying to wiggle a bit imo. The program is the adult decision makers, the players aren't a part of that. I doubt you root for the way Gtown handles its business, am I correct? No it’s not. The program is everything from the ball boys on up. Can you show an example of someone defining a program as solely the adult decision makers? When a fan says they support the program do you think that only means they support the adults in the room and the players are excluded from that?
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TC
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Post by TC on May 18, 2022 11:48:52 GMT -5
Can you show an example of someone defining a program as solely the adult decision makers? Look at any franchise run as poorly as Georgetown. For example - the A's or the Pirates - there's definitely an antipathy among fans towards the adult decision makers and how they run things and fans generally don't place blame on the players for the situation.
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2022 11:51:10 GMT -5
So what happens when a coach gets dismissed told they are no longer needed? Will you then say coaches aren’t the program? I think it's hard to make the argument you are making when our program has functioned through the dynastic succession of one family for 50 years. Never heard of anyone use that term and it not include everyone involved from low level staff to decision makers. Can you provide an example of it being defined in the narrow terms you guys are describing it?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2022 11:55:43 GMT -5
Can you show an example of someone defining a program as solely the adult decision makers? Look at any franchise run as poorly as Georgetown. For example - the A's or the Pirates - there's definitely an antipathy among fans towards the adult decision makers and how they run things and fans generally don't place blame on the players for the situation. Loving your team and hating the decision makers is different from saying I don’t support the program. If it wasn’t why would you say “Ewing is making it hard to support the program?” He’s making it hard to support the other decision makers?
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on May 18, 2022 12:06:40 GMT -5
Look at any franchise run as poorly as Georgetown. For example - the A's or the Pirates - there's definitely an antipathy among fans towards the adult decision makers and how they run things and fans generally don't place blame on the players for the situation. Loving your team and hating the decision makers is different from saying I don’t support the program. If it wasn’t why would you say “Ewing is making it hard to support the program?” He’s making it hard to support the other decision makers? Yaboy, you have 12 posts since 12:00A.M. and ten within the last hour. Is the posting limit rule still in effect?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 18, 2022 12:18:18 GMT -5
Loving your team and hating the decision makers is different from saying I don’t support the program. If it wasn’t why would you say “Ewing is making it hard to support the program?” He’s making it hard to support the other decision makers? Yaboy, you have 12 posts since 12:00A.M. and ten within the last hour. Is the posting limit rule still in effect? Are you upset with me for speaking when spoken to?? 😬🙃 Anyway, much love PR hope all is well. Yes, the posting rules are still in force, at least through the end of the month. Please respect the rules as a result.--Admin
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