mfk24
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Post by mfk24 on Jan 16, 2022 21:08:02 GMT -5
This year’s team is worse than last years. I don’t foresee a miracle BET run. I appreciate their fight today, they didn’t quit, made a run to try to get back in it, but ultimately the result was the same. At the end of the day, the season will be evaluated based on wins and losses and should we continue to compile losses, what does the roster look like next year? Yep, one would think loosing your three top players this team would be the same if not better. This team is young and improving. If you don't listen to the clueless clowns that have not flipping idea about basketball nor how teams grow and change you can actually seem players improving, even as they lose players to injury, illness, even coaches out, and practices and games shut down. So with all of that, they should have improved greatly. Please don't to the hateful tolls that repeatedly prove they have no idea what they are talking about and are determined to prove they have no clue repeatedly. They also want the team and university to be something it isn't. Not too sure what you mean here. Sarcasm? The university has made a significant financial commitment to basketball, one that carries the expectation of results on the basketball court. Therefore, a bottom of the conference team getting blown out every night, should be unacceptable to just about everyone in and around the program. I really don't know what improvement you're seeing. I saw a lot of the same today that I saw early on, giving up dunks at the rim, wide open 3s, and if anything our "offense" looks worse, which I guess could be expected given what we're missing. If we had come in to the BE portion of the season at 8-4 having won the games we were expected to win, I could probably stomach these losses with a partial roster slightly better, but we've been bad since day 1.
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hoyas212
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Post by hoyas212 on Jan 16, 2022 21:22:29 GMT -5
Keep seeing the team being called young. It is not an especially young team: 2 grad students have started most games, the top 2 5’s on the depth chart are juniors. They’re inexperienced playing together, but the same goes for the St. John’s team that just beat them by 19.
Many have noted the similarities between Georgetown basketball and the New York Giants. Those similarities continue to appear in the last 2 games where the team hasn’t been competitive with other teams in the bottom quarter of the league. There is no valid excuse for what is happening.
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bluegray79
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Post by bluegray79 on Jan 16, 2022 21:26:45 GMT -5
O.K., this is nuanced so try to stay with me. What I saw tonight was somewhat hopeful to me because most of the play that led to our losing is mostly due to youth & inexperience. Yes, too many turnovers, of course more than anything. What I saw today that I didn't see in Butler and other games we should have been closer in or even won was more playing together as a team, not trying to do it all by yourself, and regathering after plays which to me seemed like calm. They didn't panic. They took a 20-point deficit at 9 minutes left and made it 7 in 4 minutes. Tell me you didn't feel a little hopeful -- despite yourselves -- when that was happening! It's not pretty, no. There's more than enough to point to and gripe about, of course. But when it works, it's pretty sweet. Our team tonight wins by a lot against Butler. There were a bunch of penetrate and dishes that Tim (mostly) had a challenge finishing on, but they had a close in, high percentage shot. I want Tim dunking the ball and drawing fouls on most of those from now on. So, yeah, you can turn the ball over too much and still be playing calmly, or at least not panicking, which is mental toughness that can keep you in a game sometimes. St. John's was the better team and the much more athletic team -- and with 4 minutes left we were still very much in it. Yes, we're in for more anguish and misery from now to March, but I like the steps they took from Butler to today, and I didn't want to see any other game while our Hoyas were on. Let's go. When you are letting balls go through your hands and getting them poked away from behind that is not mental toughness to me. I don’t think we played well enough to beat Butler tonight but if you are satisfied with the performance you are at a better place with it all than I am. Fair enough, I guess. Mental toughness could be not being careless with the ball, for sure. But mental toughness can also be seen in how you react and respond in real time. I think they did pretty well much of the time today in that regard. They definitely beat Butler and here's why: We were 7 points down with 4 minutes to go. St. John's came out of that timeout and took their defense up a notch right as we let ourselves get careless and unable to finish. Butler has nothing like that intensity & athleticism, and if you agree that today's Hoyas are a better, more cohesive bunch than the Butler game bunch, then I think you have to believe that the Hoya team that showed up today definitely beats the Butler team from last week. Let's hope the improvement continues, game to game, week to week.
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DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by DFW HOYA on Jan 16, 2022 21:42:14 GMT -5
Some positive thoughts:
1. Georgetown has some good underclassmen that need care and feeding. Two years from now, I want to see Dante Harris, Collin Holloway, and Kobe Clark get a Senior Day they (and we) can be proud of. I want to see Tyler Beard, Jalin Billingsley and Ryan Mutombo be candidates for the starting lineup, even if they struggle. I want Jordan Riley not to lose hope. The college careers of our grad transfers end in seven weeks and it may be time for them to pass the torch and serve a role as a reserve or 1st man off the bench to support those who will succeed them. An M.A. from Georgetown University is a remarkable opportunity which will suit them well.
2. I think Coach Orr has done a solid job in the last two games as befitting his tenure and experience. He's not the future, but this game wasn't lost in the huddle.
3. There's a lot going on at Georgetown and even in a poor season, basketball doesn't get elevated as much as people think when you're trying to run a $1.4 billion corporation who will always be behind the endowment curve by the simple time value of money. If it does get elevated, however, it should be forward-looking and not punitive.
4. People need to be positive. For all our back and forth on this board, this is still the place for people who care. The people who don't care are long gone.
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conshyhoya
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Post by conshyhoya on Jan 16, 2022 21:44:51 GMT -5
Why do you and Boya hate Dante so much? You can't even acknowledge that he was the catalyst of the small run. Kaiden scored off of Dante's pass and Dante had his own mini run. It's just so weird that fandom is broken down into internal camps. I don't remember it being like this on the board prior to MacKinjo.... What you quoted has nothing to do with Dante but I’ll answer anyways. I don’t hate Dante. How I get lumped in with hoyaboya is not being fair. While I think he does know what he’s talking about on some things he goes overboard harping on Dante. As for my opinion on Dante I stated before the season I thought he was the only PG on a he team. I even said I would still start him over Beard but Beard is closing the gap. I don’t think Dante is the answer but he’s our answer for now. He’s not a good shooter and doesn’t run the offense well enough for us to be at the level where I’d like us to be. He had a few good Big East Tournament games and that is all some people judge him on. One of those games was against a walk on level player so forgive me if I’m not giving him a ton of credit for that. Dante would be a good backup PG on a great team. What he’s not is a primary option type player on a good team. If that is what you consider hate I’m sorry. I think it’s a pretty fair assessment based on what he’s done so far. It’s not like he was supposed to be that level of player. He is definitely better than his ranking coming in and we are lucky to have him. As for the run Rice scored 8 of the points. If he doesn’t make the shots there is no run. Dante played well during that spurt but it was Rice actually hitting shots that was the difference to the rest of the game.
I'm a Dante fan and I think that is a very fair assessment of Dante and boya for that matter.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jan 16, 2022 21:53:21 GMT -5
Some positive thoughts: 1. Georgetown has some good underclassmen that need care and feeding. Two years from now, I want to see Dante Harris, Collin Holloway, and Kobe Clark get a Senior Day they (and we) can be proud of. I want to see Jalin Billingsley and Ryan Mutombo in the starting lineup, even if they struggle. I want Jordan Riley not to lose hope. The college careers of our grad transfers end in seven weeks and it may be time for them to pass the torch and serve a role as a reserve or 1st man off the bench to support those who will succeed them. An M.A. from Georgetown University is a remarkable opportunity which will suit them well. 2. I think Coach Orr has done a solid job in the last two games as befitting his tenure and experience. He's not the future, but this game wasn't lost in the huddle. 3. There's a lot going on at Georgetown and even in a poor season, basketball doesn't get elevated as much as people think when you're trying to run a $1.4 billion corporation who will always be behind the endowment curve by the simple time value of money. If it does get elevated, however, it should be forward-looking and not punitive. 4. People need to be positive. For all our back and forth on this board, this is still the place for people who care. The people who don't care are long gone. I have always been positive about the young men who work hard - on and off the court - at Georgetown. This is probably the first time I have ever found it so hard to be. The product on the court, the senseless mistakes, the lack of tangible improvement just make it so hard.
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dchoya72
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Post by dchoya72 on Jan 16, 2022 22:12:25 GMT -5
Our guys fought hard to the end. Props to Coach Orr for holding things together and keeping the guys fighting hard. It has been a crazy season with missed games, guys in and out and now Coach Ewing out. Really tough. Our young are guys getting a baptism by fire. It isn't pretty, but a learning experience. Let's get ready for the next game. Go Hoyas! Go Hoyas! Sometime hard to watch, but what's happening is not for a lack of effort. As someone said it's trial by fire. We are going through it with national exposure, but our players will collectively and individually get through this and operate at higher level. It might be humbling but instructive.
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conshyhoya
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Post by conshyhoya on Jan 16, 2022 22:15:18 GMT -5
I'm really baffled on how Ryan doesn't get more minutes in this game. Glad to hear Dante was just cramping. He needs to play more like he did somewhere from under the 10 minute mark in the first half to where him and Rice had that mini run in the second half. Nice to see him hit some 3s. The start of the game for him was some bad decisions and poor play. Aminu's best game in BE play and starting to look more for teammates and even had that pull up at the foul line even though it didn't go in. Would like to see him do more of that so he is less predictable. Sloppy with the ball but who wasn't. Rice shot selection was better and good to see him actually try something else. I would have to imagine he can dunk, what was that wide open layup that he chucked up. Collin and Tyler had pretty bad games. Timmy, Wilson and JBills were pretty much non-existent. Defensively Aminu played decent against Julian but it was a lot more of the same for the team as a whole. They had anything they wanted from drives to 3 pointers. 8 assist and 21 TOs is truly pathetic. I'm doubting we get our game with Provy in so here comes Nova.
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Post by FHillsNYHoya on Jan 16, 2022 22:30:19 GMT -5
I'm really baffled on how Ryan doesn't get more minutes in this game. Glad to hear Dante was just cramping. He needs to play more like he did somewhere from under the 10 minute mark in the first half to where him and Rice had that mini run in the second half. Nice to see him hit some 3s. The start of the game for him was some bad decisions and poor play. Aminu's best game in BE play and starting to look more for teammates and even had that pull up at the foul line even though it didn't go in. Would like to see him do more of that so he is less predictable. Sloppy with the ball but who wasn't. Rice shot selection was better and good to see him actually try something else. I would have to imagine he can dunk, what was that wide open layup that he chucked up. Collin and Tyler had pretty bad games. Timmy, Wilson and JBills were pretty much now existent. Defensively Aminu played decent against Julian but it was a lot more of the same for the team as a whole. They had anything they wanted from drives to 3 pointers. 8 assist and 21 TOs is truly pathetic. I'm doubting we get our game with Provy in so here comes Nova. The rough part about the TOs is that so many of them were not forced. Almost frightening how many they just walked into.
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Post by trillesthoya on Jan 16, 2022 22:48:15 GMT -5
Staff is over complicating things in the lineup imo. Minutes should be as shown below once Carey is back:
1. Dante (30 mins), Tyler (10 mins) 2. Carey (30 mins), Tyler (10 mins) 3. Aminu (30 mins), Rice (10 mins) 4. Holloway (25 mins), Rice (15 mins) 5. Igohoefe (20 mins), Mutombo (20 mins)
Don’t think Billingsley is ready for the big leagues yet so I’d give him some more time. If Bristol is eligible soon that obviously complicates things. Ultimately though there isn’t a ton you can do with this group to win, just the state of things.
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Post by paulf on Jan 16, 2022 23:02:44 GMT -5
Been a hoya fan since late 70s. Not a surprising forecast, but this is a developmental season. While development and winning can go together it's tough to do with a young team and without a top tier player or two to anchor things while the team grows. IMHO think this looks like a 3 or 4 win BE seaon at best but beleive next year could be .500 BE record.
Lots of negatives in today's game headlined by turnovers (several of the more easily correctable kind), not using more passes into the post to help diversify the offense and provide potential "o for" momentum stoopers, giving up too many baseline drives, and momentum stopping bad fouls.
Some positives were:
-Dante's outside jumper showed improvement, if he can get some consistency it will open up his drive game and take pressure off Rice and Carey this year and Anglin/Bristol next year -With added strengh and more touches Ryan is going to be a solid low post threat -Tim and Ryan did some nice work on the boards. Tim has less potential than Ryan on O but believe he can continue developing his hook (thought he showed some signs of development last year) and short turnaround J. -Beard is getting a lot of playing time and shown he can back up Dante and be on the court at the same time with him in spots. Needs to get stronger and work on his J and a floater. He seems to have the ability to finish layups high off the BB which is a key skill for smaller guards to have. -Like the fact that Rice has been driving to the basket more. Needs to work on finishes but jacking up bad 3's can be momentum stopper. Learning to play with him and Carey could be a good dress rehersal for playing with Bristol. -Billingsly seems to be slowly adjusting to the pace and physicality of the college game.Obviously a work in progress but a summer of conditioning will help. Would like to see him get more post touches for game experience. Has a turn over the left shoulder jump hook that strength and game reps should improve. May be rose colored glasses but by his junior year I could see him being a guy you could isolate at the high post, face up, and be a beast to handle. -Despite some bad turnovers Aminu doesn't stop playing hard or appear to lose confidence. Run down block is a good example and he also has great potential to be a lock down man to man defender. Hoping like some other BE players over the past two years, he tests draft but returns working on mid-range game, off the ball movement and ball handling.
Why the optimism (one of several Marvel Universe options but it's the one I assume plays out)
-Exprience is the best teacher. The frosh will have gotten a taste for Big East play and come back stronger and with improved basketball skills in targeted areas. -Riley comes back healthy and is an X factor becoming one of team's top 3 to 4 players - Anglin, Bristol, and at least one other Hoya provide consistent 3 point shooting and are balanced by inside scoring from Ryan, Tim,Bills, and increasing use of Aminu in the post. -Dante uses lessons from Soph year and off-season work to be an improved version of Chris Wright and Markel Starks -Bass proves to be a steal. Provides the type of basketball hardhat impact flashes that LeB showed prior to departure. -Aminu returns and puts it all together performing to a top 15 draft pick level. -Unknown, as of now, impact transfer becomes available and comes on board. -team defense improves with roster continuity, coaching roster and/or scheme improvements, and skill growth of our bigs.
Hoping we'll see continued player growth this year and we get some wins in the process. Unfortunately, player youth, COVID impacts, injuries and the need to have a solid base for next year (and beyond) calls for allowing the frosh to play thru mistakes even though some painful loses will occur.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by prhoya on Jan 16, 2022 23:12:38 GMT -5
Thank you St. John's for slowing it up and not hanging 90 on us. Very classy by Anderson! They could've hit 100 points.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by prhoya on Jan 16, 2022 23:24:48 GMT -5
We get a Malcolm free throw!!!! Again, we left FT points on the court. 66.7 FT% might be the worst under Pat. Malcolm needs to go back to the drawing board with his FT stroke. His weak Statue of Liberty FT% is an embarrassing 44%. Have we had a worse FT shooter since Esh era? Time to try the double-handed, underhand FT stroke...
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Post by FHillsNYHoya on Jan 16, 2022 23:27:46 GMT -5
We get a Malcolm free throw!!!! Again, we left FT points on the court. 66.7 FT% might be the worst under Pat. Malcolm needs to go back to the drawing board with his FT stroke. His weak Statue of Liberty FT% is an embarrassing 44%. Have we had a worse FT shooter since Esh era? Time to try the double-handed, underhand FT stroke... Seems odd that this would be a takeaway. I'd pick a couple of dozen things before this.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by prhoya on Jan 16, 2022 23:32:27 GMT -5
Again, we left FT points on the court. 66.7 FT% might be the worst under Pat. Malcolm needs to go back to the drawing board with his FT stroke. His weak Statue of Liberty FT% is an embarrassing 44%. Have we had a worse FT shooter since Esh era? Time to try the double-handed, underhand FT stroke... Seems odd that this would be a takeaway. I'd pick a couple of dozen things before this. I'm reading up from Page 8 of "Last 10 posts". I finished watching the second half just now. Stay tuned. ![:-*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/kiss.png)
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Post by FHillsNYHoya on Jan 16, 2022 23:39:35 GMT -5
Seems odd that this would be a takeaway. I'd pick a couple of dozen things before this. I'm reading up from Page 8 of "Last 10 posts". I finished watching the second half just now. Stay tuned. ![:-*](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/kiss.png) Can't wait.
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by prhoya on Jan 17, 2022 0:16:19 GMT -5
Been a hoya fan since late 70s. Not a surprising forecast, but this is a developmental season. While development and winning can go together it's tough to do with a young team and without a top tier player or two to anchor things while the team grows. IMHO think this looks like a 3 or 4 win BE seaon at best but beleive next year could be .500 BE record. Lots of negatives in today's game headlined by turnovers (several of the more easily correctable kind), not using more passes into the post to help diversify the offense and provide potential "o for" momentum stoopers, giving up too many baseline drives, and momentum stopping bad fouls. Some positives were: -Dante's outside jumper showed improvement, if he can get some consistency it will open up his drive game and take pressure off Rice and Carey this year and Anglin/Bristol next year -With added strengh and more touches Ryan is going to be a solid low post threat -Tim and Ryan did some nice work on the boards. Tim has less potential than Ryan on O but believe he can continue developing his hook (thought he showed some signs of development last year) and short turnaround J. -Beard is getting a lot of playing time and shown he can back up Dante and be on the court at the same time with him in spots. Needs to get stronger and work on his J and a floater. He seems to have the ability to finish layups high off the BB which is a key skill for smaller guards to have. -Like the fact that Rice has been driving to the basket more. Needs to work on finishes but jacking up bad 3's can be momentum stopper. Learning to play with him and Carey could be a good dress rehersal for playing with Bristol. -Billingsly seems to be slowly adjusting to the pace and physicality of the college game.Obviously a work in progress but a summer of conditioning will help. Would like to see him get more post touches for game experience. Has a turn over the left shoulder jump hook that strength and game reps should improve. May be rose colored glasses but by his junior year I could see him being a guy you could isolate at the high post, face up, and be a beast to handle. -Despite some bad turnovers Aminu doesn't stop playing hard or appear to lose confidence. Run down block is a good example and he also has great potential to be a lock down man to man defender. Hoping like some other BE players over the past two years, he tests draft but returns working on mid-range game, off the ball movement and ball handling. Why the optimism (one of several Marvel Universe options but it's the one I assume plays out) -Exprience is the best teacher. The frosh will have gotten a taste for Big East play and come back stronger and with improved basketball skills in targeted areas. -Riley comes back healthy and is an X factor becoming one of team's top 3 to 4 players - Anglin, Bristol, and at least one other Hoya provide consistent 3 point shooting and are balanced by inside scoring from Ryan, Tim,Bills, and increasing use of Aminu in the post. -Dante uses lessons from Soph year and off-season work to be an improved version of Chris Wright and Markel Starks -Bass proves to be a steal. Provides the type of basketball hardhat impact flashes that LeB showed prior to departure. -Aminu returns and puts it all together performing to a top 15 draft pick level. -Unknown, as of now, impact transfer becomes available and comes on board. -team defense improves with roster continuity, coaching roster and/or scheme improvements, and skill growth of our bigs. Hoping we'll see continued player growth this year and we get some wins in the process. Unfortunately, player youth, COVID impacts, injuries and the need to have a solid base for next year (and beyond) calls for allowing the frosh to play thru mistakes even though some painful loses will occur. Hopefully, there's no mass exodus.
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Post by professorhoya on Jan 17, 2022 0:17:10 GMT -5
I'm really baffled on how Ryan doesn't get more minutes in this game. Glad to hear Dante was just cramping. He needs to play more like he did somewhere from under the 10 minute mark in the first half to where him and Rice had that mini run in the second half. Nice to see him hit some 3s. The start of the game for him was some bad decisions and poor play. Aminu's best game in BE play and starting to look more for teammates and even had that pull up at the foul line even though it didn't go in. Would like to see him do more of that so he is less predictable. Sloppy with the ball but who wasn't. Rice shot selection was better and good to see him actually try something else. I would have to imagine he can dunk, what was that wide open layup that he chucked up. Collin and Tyler had pretty bad games. Timmy, Wilson and JBills were pretty much non-existent. Defensively Aminu played decent against Julian but it was a lot more of the same for the team as a whole. They had anything they wanted from drives to 3 pointers. 8 assist and 21 TOs is truly pathetic. I'm doubting we get our game with Provy in so here comes Nova. Orr seems to love Billingsley for some reason and I think Billingsley at this stage is a net negative. Both Malcolm and Mutombo are getting less minutes as Billingsley is taking them. (Plus Big Tim is back so that's taking up alot of Malcolm/Mutombo mintues)
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by prhoya on Jan 17, 2022 0:43:25 GMT -5
Georgetown's average margin of defeat through 3 games of Big East play is 24 points, and it only gets tougher with a game at Providence and a visit from Villanova.
Georgetown had 3 more field goals (24) than turnovers (21), and this is with both PG playing major minutes. Everyone is to blame, but our PGs cannot be so careless with the ball. Beard (1 as, 4 TOs) and Dante (4 as, 4 TOs)... Turnovers have plagued Ewing's teams. Different personnel, same problems. We're going on five years of it.
Good job by the experienced college basketball coach Mike Anderson for telling his players in a time-out: "I think fatigue is about to creep in here...Make them use some of their conditioning!"
What are the odds that Ewing goes to Providence?
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
Posts: 5,422
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Post by the_way on Jan 17, 2022 0:44:56 GMT -5
Billingsley is okay. He is the only player of his type on this roster and a voided position of need...a true forward. That is why they play him. He is raw, but active. Pickett was the one that filled that need for us all these years. They can also swing Billingsley over to center if we want to go "small". Everybody else on the roster are tweeners, PGs or centers.
Everyone is struggling right now. We just have to fight through it.
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