seaweed
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,739
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Post by seaweed on Apr 14, 2023 18:18:02 GMT -5
Don’t know the source and not vouching for anything, but interesting to see some figures around the purses.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Apr 17, 2023 9:02:52 GMT -5
Don’t know the source and not vouching for anything, but interesting to see some figures around the purses. From the same article, thought this was interesting: "SANIL recommends $75,000 for a high-major starter. The second tier of compensation is around $50,000, then a third around $25,000 and finally there’s a drop-off for the players who comprise the final spots on a roster. A smaller budget means smaller individual deals on a percentage basis." www.on3.com/nil/news/college-basketball-transfer-portal-nil-collectives-deals-name-image-likeness/ |
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Post by hoyasaxaphone on Apr 17, 2023 10:05:33 GMT -5
And none of this appears to bear any relationship to any actual use of a player's NIL in any promotional manner.....and certainly not to any implied market value of such promotional efforts.
None of this is good for college athletics, however one may feel about whether players deserve this or not.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 17, 2023 10:27:33 GMT -5
And none of this appears to bear any relationship to any actual use of a player's NIL in any promotional manner.....and certainly not to any implied market value of such promotional efforts. None of this is good for college athletics, however one may feel about whether players deserve this or not. Correct, but it's the weird world we live in, and to be competitive we need to play the game. |
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Apr 17, 2023 11:03:24 GMT -5
And none of this appears to bear any relationship to any actual use of a player's NIL in any promotional manner.....and certainly not to any implied market value of such promotional efforts. None of this is good for college athletics, however one may feel about whether players deserve this or not. They're making money off their name, Dickson has a bidding war going on, how is that not showing his market value? NIL is not the issue, the new transfer rules are. I'm starting to believe the rules committee wanted this chaos. |
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 17, 2023 11:39:21 GMT -5
And none of this appears to bear any relationship to any actual use of a player's NIL in any promotional manner.....and certainly not to any implied market value of such promotional efforts. None of this is good for college athletics, however one may feel about whether players deserve this or not. They're making money off their name, Dickson has a bidding war going on, how is that not showing his market value? NIL is not the issue, the new transfer rules are. I'm starting to believe the rules committee wanted this chaos. It depends on what you mean by "market value." Any bids that Dickinson gets are for his "market value" in the NIL system. In other words, how much money are donors/collectives willing to pay Dickinson to come to their university? But, does that reflect a "market value" in literal name, likeness, image, terms? No. Do I think Dickinson is going to move $1,000,000 of product because of his name, image, and likeness? No. Did Brandon Murray move $300,000-$400,000 value based on his name, image and likeness last year? Very unlikely. |
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Post by professorhoya on Apr 17, 2023 11:53:10 GMT -5
They're making money off their name, Dickson has a bidding war going on, how is that not showing his market value? NIL is not the issue, the new transfer rules are. I'm starting to believe the rules committee wanted this chaos. It depends on what you mean by "market value." Any bids that Dickinson gets are for his "market value" in the NIL system. In other words, how much money are donors/collectives willing to pay Dickinson to come to their university? But, does that reflect a "market value" in literal name, likeness, image, terms? No. Do I think Dickinson is going to move $1,000,000 of product because of his name, image, and likeness? No. Did Brandon Murray move $300,000-$400,000 value based on his name, image and likeness last year? Very unlikely. Yup this has little to do with monetizing your youtube channel or selling t shirts with your face on it. It’s a Joke really and schools should just pay salaries. However the schools may not want to lose their tax exempt status so that May be the hidden driver for schools not wanting to pay directly: “The NCAA and private universities, however, rely for their exempt status on Section 501(c)(3), which provides exemption for charitable organizations, including religious and educational organizations.” Also their could be potential antitrust issues with the NCAA if it is considered a business with people wanting to start their own college league. I think their was talk of starting an sec/big super league to the exclusion of all the other schools |
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by EtomicB on Apr 17, 2023 12:13:42 GMT -5
They're making money off their name, Dickson has a bidding war going on, how is that not showing his market value? NIL is not the issue, the new transfer rules are. I'm starting to believe the rules committee wanted this chaos. It depends on what you mean by "market value." Any bids that Dickinson gets are for his "market value" in the NIL system. In other words, how much money are donors/collectives willing to pay Dickinson to come to their university? But, does that reflect a "market value" in literal name, likeness, image, terms? No. Do I think Dickinson is going to move $1,000,000 of product because of his name, image, and likeness? No. Did Brandon Murray move $300,000-$400,000 value based on his name, image and likeness last year? Very unlikely. Why should anyone consider market value in any other way besides the NIL system? |
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 17, 2023 13:11:22 GMT -5
It depends on what you mean by "market value." Any bids that Dickinson gets are for his "market value" in the NIL system. In other words, how much money are donors/collectives willing to pay Dickinson to come to their university? But, does that reflect a "market value" in literal name, likeness, image, terms? No. Do I think Dickinson is going to move $1,000,000 of product because of his name, image, and likeness? No. Did Brandon Murray move $300,000-$400,000 value based on his name, image and likeness last year? Very unlikely. Why should anyone consider market value in any other way besides the NIL system? In some ways, this is semantic. A more appropriate name for it would be something similar to a "Player Bonus" or "Player Incentive," because that's what it is. It's not actually payments for their name, image, and likeness. It's just funneled into that category because it's illegal to pay them salaries or bonuses. Of course, this is what we have, and they have a market value within that system. And it might be called NIL, but it isn't that in practice. |
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iowa80
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by iowa80 on Apr 17, 2023 13:14:17 GMT -5
Why should anyone consider market value in any other way besides the NIL system? In some ways, this is semantic. A more appropriate name for it would be something similar to a "Player Bonus" or "Player Incentive," because that's what it is. It's not actually payments for their name, image, and likeness. It's just funneled into that category because it's illegal to pay them salaries or bonuses. Of course, this is what we have, and they have a market value within that system. And it might be called NIL, but it isn't that in practice. In other words, it's pay for play. AKA professional. We might as well just drop the whole going to class thing too. |
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Post by professorhoya on Apr 17, 2023 13:30:36 GMT -5
In some ways, this is semantic. A more appropriate name for it would be something similar to a "Player Bonus" or "Player Incentive," because that's what it is. It's not actually payments for their name, image, and likeness. It's just funneled into that category because it's illegal to pay them salaries or bonuses. Of course, this is what we have, and they have a market value within that system. And it might be called NIL, but it isn't that in practice. In other words, it's pay for play. AKA professional. We might as well just drop the whole going to class thing too. But then the universities lose their tax exemption. That’s likely why they don’t directly want to pay the student athletes |
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Apr 17, 2023 13:36:38 GMT -5
I thought I heard at the NYC event for boosters Cooley said Providence had an NIL last year of 1.7 million. You have to assume we are at least double that. Now add to this the coaches having to manage salary cap discussions with players and hurt feelings over a guy who is underperforming (Murray) relative to his cap number.
The hoyas should get ahead of this and start analyzing WOP now to make sure we are properly allocating player resources.
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Bigs"R"Us
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Apr 17, 2023 13:53:33 GMT -5
In some ways, this is semantic. A more appropriate name for it would be something similar to a "Player Bonus" or "Player Incentive," because that's what it is. It's not actually payments for their name, image, and likeness. It's just funneled into that category because it's illegal to pay them salaries or bonuses. Of course, this is what we have, and they have a market value within that system. And it might be called NIL, but it isn't that in practice. In other words, it's pay for play. AKA professional. We might as well just drop the whole going to class thing too. Schools have created classes tailored for athletes which are taught by professors that know to pass them. Athletes often live in special dorms and may not mingle much with the general population. UNC tried the fake class thing, that was a bit too much. I’m talking high D1 football and basketball. |
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Post by aleutianhoya on Apr 17, 2023 14:07:43 GMT -5
In other words, it's pay for play. AKA professional. We might as well just drop the whole going to class thing too. But then the universities lose their tax exemption. That’s likely why they don’t directly want to pay the student athletes Huh? Universities (and most non-profits) have tons of employees. Paying an employee has nothing to do with whether you're a non-profit. If we were to pay athletes as employees, it would be no different than paying whatever the going rate is for a professor, or an administrator or a student performing some other job on campus. It's just that these particular students have a market wage that is way higher. |
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DFW HOYA
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by DFW HOYA on Apr 17, 2023 14:23:33 GMT -5
Schools have created classes tailored for athletes which are taught by professors that know to pass them. Athletes often live in special dorms and may not mingle much with the general population. UNC tried the fake class thing, that was a bit too much. I’m talking high D1 football and basketball. 1. Schools are less prone to create athletic majors than steer athletes into low requirements majors. 2. The NCAA ended athletic dorms 15 years ago. 3. UNC's issue with the African-American Studies program was well above athletics. Athletics may have taken advantage of it, but it was not the root of the problem. |
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SSHoya
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"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
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Post by SSHoya on Apr 17, 2023 14:28:57 GMT -5
But then the universities lose their tax exemption. That’s likely why they don’t directly want to pay the student athletes Huh? Universities (and most non-profits) have tons of employees. Paying an employee has nothing to do with whether you're a non-profit. If we were to pay athletes as employees, it would be no different than paying whatever the going rate is for a professor, or an administrator or a student performing some other job on campus. It's just that these particular students have a market wage that is way higher. But if it is Unrelated Business Taxable Income . . . [C]ollege sports cannot be classified as a tax-exempt endeavor, since their profits are not being invested in educational pursuits. Instead, universities are investing their sports profits into paying for lucrative coaching contracts, upgrading sports facilities, and accruing further sponsorships. The IRS has recognized this issue and, on May 2, 2013, the agency’s Exempt Organizations division released the Colleges and Universities Compliance Project final report, in which the division audited 34 organizations, revealing several areas of noncompliance related to the underreporting of Unrelated Business Taxable Income (UBTI). [6] The most underreported taxable income was related to the following athletic-dominated areas: fitness, recreation centers and sports camps, advertising, facility rentals, arenas, and golf. The report also found that the compensation of head coaches and investment managers often greatly exceeded salaries of the president of the college/university and other key school officials. At the end of the report, the IRS issued written advisories to twenty-four institutions on a number of activities that could result in tax liability in the future, which failed to adequately punish the colleges. [7] This report highlights both that colleges are using their 501(c)3 status to shield otherwise taxable revenue from the IRS and that they are disproportionately funding their athletics compared to their academics. In turn, this directly violates colleges’ 501(c)3 status, as the IRS has admitted that universities are pursuing non-educational endeavors that would disqualify their non-profit, tax-exempt status.
www.culawreview.org/journal/the-college-tax-scam-addressing-university-exploitation-of-the-501c3-tax-status |
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Apr 17, 2023 14:32:39 GMT -5
Why should anyone consider market value in any other way besides the NIL system? In some ways, this is semantic. A more appropriate name for it would be something similar to a "Player Bonus" or "Player Incentive," because that's what it is. It's not actually payments for their name, image, and likeness. It's just funneled into that category because it's illegal to pay them salaries or bonuses. Of course, this is what we have, and they have a market value within that system. And it might be called NIL, but it isn't that in practice. NIL narrative came about because of the lawsuits against the NCAA for using players names, images & likeness to make money beyond the court or field of play. Once those lawsuits ruled in favor of the players we all knew it meant that the under the table pay to entice kids to certain schools would now be out in the open so why pretend it had anything to with " open market" worth? |
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Apr 17, 2023 14:58:05 GMT -5
In some ways, this is semantic. A more appropriate name for it would be something similar to a "Player Bonus" or "Player Incentive," because that's what it is. It's not actually payments for their name, image, and likeness. It's just funneled into that category because it's illegal to pay them salaries or bonuses. Of course, this is what we have, and they have a market value within that system. And it might be called NIL, but it isn't that in practice. In other words, it's pay for play. AKA professional. We might as well just drop the whole going to class thing too. If we're being honest HM college athletics has been professional leagues for years. |
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Apr 17, 2023 15:03:54 GMT -5
In other words, it's pay for play. AKA professional. We might as well just drop the whole going to class thing too. But then the universities lose their tax exemption. That’s likely why they don’t directly want to pay the student athletes Why? None of this money is coming from the schools. Plus schools pay kids already thru the cost of attendance stipend and/or the educational bonuses that were recently passed. Between the two some players could get over 10k per year in payouts directly from the school.. |
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iowa80
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by iowa80 on Apr 17, 2023 15:19:29 GMT -5
In other words, it's pay for play. AKA professional. We might as well just drop the whole going to class thing too. If we're being honest HM college athletics has been professional leagues for years. Some sports more than others, some schools more than others. And it was at least recognized as “cheating” from time to time. Now we have the hypocrisy of a system allegedly based on NIL that really isn’t. |
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