njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Apr 29, 2022 10:15:26 GMT -5
I'm really not blaming the student/athletes here. It's much more balanced, where the power previously was all in the hands of the so-called adults...and we see how well the adults did running the show. The thrust of my post was really intended, instead, to highlight an inherent problem that Georgetown will have, going forward, in its basketball rubric. But this issue of players leaving has been an issue long before the NIL came into play NJ, it can't and shouldn't be used as an excuse or crutch now Here's the thing...I personally (and I know I'll get flamed for this) don't believe that GU can compete at this level any longer. But I recognize that it is also anathema to suggest that GU should leave the Big East and find a conference that is more suited to the level of competition at which the Hoyas may actually belong. It's not an excuse. It's not a crutch. I'm just verbalizing what I have been feeling for several years now. That doesn't mean I'm not a fan...it just means that I've grown to accept that the glory days are gone, in the same manner that the glory days of Georgetown football are likewise in the rearview mirror. |
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hoopsmccan
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Post by hoopsmccan on Apr 29, 2022 10:26:05 GMT -5
But this issue of players leaving has been an issue long before the NIL came into play NJ, it can't and shouldn't be used as an excuse or crutch now Here's the thing...I personally (and I know I'll get flamed for this) don't believe that GU can compete at this level any longer. But I recognize that it is also anathema to suggest that GU should leave the Big East and find a conference that is more suited to the level of competition at which the Hoyas may actually belong. It's not an excuse. It's not a crutch. I'm just verbalizing what I have been feeling for several years now. That doesn't mean I'm not a fan...it just means that I've grown to accept that the glory days are gone, in the same manner that the glory days of Georgetown football are likewise in the rearview mirror. Not “flaming”, but how are other BE schools situated so differently from us that we need to drop out? If the thought is that the BE might struggle and take second tier status because of the lack of football money, I think there can be some debate. But not being able to hang with Providence, Seton Hall, Butler, etc? I don’t get that. hm |
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Apr 29, 2022 10:30:55 GMT -5
But this issue of players leaving has been an issue long before the NIL came into play NJ, it can't and shouldn't be used as an excuse or crutch now Here's the thing...I personally (and I know I'll get flamed for this) don't believe that GU can compete at this level any longer. But I recognize that it is also anathema to suggest that GU should leave the Big East and find a conference that is more suited to the level of competition at which the Hoyas may actually belong. It's not an excuse. It's not a crutch. I'm just verbalizing what I have been feeling for several years now. That doesn't mean I'm not a fan...it just means that I've grown to accept that the glory days are gone, in the same manner that the glory days of Georgetown football are likewise in the rearview mirror. I don't blame you for feeling like they can't compete at this level any longer, I share those feelings honestly however the NIL has zero to do with why Gtown can't compete at a respectable level any longer... |
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njhoya78
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,825
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Post by njhoya78 on Apr 29, 2022 10:34:10 GMT -5
Here's the thing...I personally (and I know I'll get flamed for this) don't believe that GU can compete at this level any longer. But I recognize that it is also anathema to suggest that GU should leave the Big East and find a conference that is more suited to the level of competition at which the Hoyas may actually belong. It's not an excuse. It's not a crutch. I'm just verbalizing what I have been feeling for several years now. That doesn't mean I'm not a fan...it just means that I've grown to accept that the glory days are gone, in the same manner that the glory days of Georgetown football are likewise in the rearview mirror. Not “flaming”, but how are other BE schools situated so differently from us that we need to drop out? If the thought is that the BE might struggle and take second tier status because of the lack of football money, I think there can be some debate. But not being able to hang with Providence, Seton Hall, Butler, etc? I don’t get that. hm Fair question. I think, unfortunately, that the Thompson Legacy administration of the team, with Ronny's apparent influence, and the hiring of a head coach (and on this one I admit I was wrong) who apparently is not able to coach defensive basketball and still thinks the game revolves around the center, are limiting factors that those other schools don't face. Should we be able, nonetheless, to compete with Providence, Seton Hall, Butler...and let's throw in Xavier and Creighton here? Absolutely. Does Healy Hall apparently not really care? Apparently. |
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Apr 29, 2022 10:53:18 GMT -5
Not “flaming”, but how are other BE schools situated so differently from us that we need to drop out? If the thought is that the BE might struggle and take second tier status because of the lack of football money, I think there can be some debate. But not being able to hang with Providence, Seton Hall, Butler, etc? I don’t get that. hm Fair question. I think, unfortunately, that the Thompson Legacy administration of the team, with Ronny's apparent influence, and the hiring of a head coach (and on this one I admit I was wrong) who apparently is not able to coach defensive basketball and still thinks the game revolves around the center, are limiting factors that those other schools don't face. Should we be able, nonetheless, to compete with Providence, Seton Hall, Butler...and let's throw in Xavier and Creighton here? Absolutely. Does Healy Hall apparently not really care? Apparently. My thoughts exactly |
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TC
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Post by TC on May 2, 2022 5:47:39 GMT -5
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on May 2, 2022 9:46:38 GMT -5
Do the rules allow Georgetown to directly work to get an NIL package together for a player? Or is it sort of a wink, wink, nod, nod, to alumni or others? |
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on May 2, 2022 10:03:30 GMT -5
Do the rules allow Georgetown to directly work to get an NIL package together for a player? Or is it sort of a wink, wink, nod, nod, to alumni or others? From the GUHoyas.com website, "University NIL Policy" section: "Georgetown University is not responsible for providing or procuring NIL opportunities for any student-athlete. Student-athletes may use outside advisors in connection with their NIL activities, but should be aware that the D.C. Uniform Athlete Agents Act of 2002 requires that any agent who is authorized to negotiate or solicit endorsement contracts on a student-athlete’s behalf must be a registered agent with the D.C. Department of Consumer and Regulatory Affairs. NCAA prohibitions on “pay-for-play” arrangements remain in effect, and therefore student-athletes are prohibited from receiving compensation which is conditioned or contingent on enrolling at any specific collegiate institution, or on any specific athletic performance or achievement. Student-athletes must disclose any potential NIL activity to the University at least 10 days prior to engaging in the opportunity so that the University can ensure the activity does not conflict with this Policy, other University, Department of Athletics, or NCAA policies or rules, or any existing commercial relationships of the University. If the University identifies any such conflict, the University will inform the student-athlete in writing. It will then be the responsibility of the student-athlete to revise the opportunity and provide a new proposal to the University. The revised proposal will be subject to this same review process as if it were a new proposal. If a student-athlete engages in any conduct that the University identifies as inconsistent with this Policy, the student-athlete will be in violation of this Policy. A student-athlete may appeal a University determination that their proposed NIL activity could harm the University’s reputation or would be inconsistent with Georgetown’s Catholic and Jesuit identity by submitting an appeal in writing to the Athletics Department through athleticscompliance@georgetown.edu 7 days following such notification from the University. Appeals will be considered by the University's Office of Public Affairs. Disclosures are to be made through the Athliance platform, and must provide a description of the activity, the parties involved, the value and nature of any compensation provided to the student-athlete, and a written copy of the proposal." guhoyas.com/feature/blueprintAdmittedly, I am not an expert on other schools' NIL policies. However, based on reading the legalese, Georgetown's policy seems a heckuva lot more restrictive than what I'd expect most schools are doing, at least the ones that are using NIL effectively. In addition, you still have the problem on WHO actually would pay the athletes for their NIL, while also following Georgetown's restrictive terms. A huge problem for Georgetown hoops is that Patrick Ewing is overseeing a losing program with very few engaged fans (relative to other Power Five + Big East + Gonzaga-type programs). While Georgetown has a ton of wealthy alumni, who wants to pony up what it takes NIL-wise to associate with Patrick Ewing's program? |
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Post by professorhoya on May 2, 2022 11:28:06 GMT -5
Do the rules allow Georgetown to directly work to get an NIL package together for a player? Or is it sort of a wink, wink, nod, nod, to alumni or others? From the GUHoyas.com website, "University NIL Policy" section: "Georgetown University is not responsible for providing or procuring NIL opportunities for any student-athlete. Student-athletes may use outside advisors in connection with their NIL activities, but should be aware that the D.C. Uniform Athlete Agents Act of 2002 requires that any agent who is authorized to negotiate or solicit endorsement contracts on a student-athlete’s behalf must be a registered agent with the D.C. Department of Consumer and Regulatory Affairs. NCAA prohibitions on “pay-for-play” arrangements remain in effect, and therefore student-athletes are prohibited from receiving compensation which is conditioned or contingent on enrolling at any specific collegiate institution, or on any specific athletic performance or achievement. Student-athletes must disclose any potential NIL activity to the University at least 10 days prior to engaging in the opportunity so that the University can ensure the activity does not conflict with this Policy, other University, Department of Athletics, or NCAA policies or rules, or any existing commercial relationships of the University. If the University identifies any such conflict, the University will inform the student-athlete in writing. It will then be the responsibility of the student-athlete to revise the opportunity and provide a new proposal to the University. The revised proposal will be subject to this same review process as if it were a new proposal. If a student-athlete engages in any conduct that the University identifies as inconsistent with this Policy, the student-athlete will be in violation of this Policy. A student-athlete may appeal a University determination that their proposed NIL activity could harm the University’s reputation or would be inconsistent with Georgetown’s Catholic and Jesuit identity by submitting an appeal in writing to the Athletics Department through athleticscompliance@georgetown.edu 7 days following such notification from the University. Appeals will be considered by the University's Office of Public Affairs. Disclosures are to be made through the Athliance platform, and must provide a description of the activity, the parties involved, the value and nature of any compensation provided to the student-athlete, and a written copy of the proposal." guhoyas.com/feature/blueprintAdmittedly, I am not an expert on other schools' NIL policies. However, based on reading the legalese, Georgetown's policy seems a heckuva lot more restrictive than what I'd expect most schools are doing, at least the ones that are using NIL effectively. In addition, you still have the problem on WHO actually would pay the athletes for their NIL, while also following Georgetown's restrictive terms. A huge problem for Georgetown hoops is that Patrick Ewing is overseeing a losing program with very few engaged fans (relative to other Power Five + Big East + Gonzaga-type programs). While Georgetown has a ton of wealthy alumni, who wants to pony up what it takes NIL-wise to associate with Patrick Ewing's program? How much are you getting paid now by He Who Must Not Be Named? Can't be much. You are underselling yourself. You should put yourself on the open market. A person of your knowledge and talents could make alot more in NIL money from a real deep pocket booster. |
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hoya9797
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,235
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Post by hoya9797 on May 2, 2022 11:31:09 GMT -5
From the GUHoyas.com website, "University NIL Policy" section: "Georgetown University is not responsible for providing or procuring NIL opportunities for any student-athlete. Student-athletes may use outside advisors in connection with their NIL activities, but should be aware that the D.C. Uniform Athlete Agents Act of 2002 requires that any agent who is authorized to negotiate or solicit endorsement contracts on a student-athlete’s behalf must be a registered agent with the D.C. Department of Consumer and Regulatory Affairs. NCAA prohibitions on “pay-for-play” arrangements remain in effect, and therefore student-athletes are prohibited from receiving compensation which is conditioned or contingent on enrolling at any specific collegiate institution, or on any specific athletic performance or achievement. Student-athletes must disclose any potential NIL activity to the University at least 10 days prior to engaging in the opportunity so that the University can ensure the activity does not conflict with this Policy, other University, Department of Athletics, or NCAA policies or rules, or any existing commercial relationships of the University. If the University identifies any such conflict, the University will inform the student-athlete in writing. It will then be the responsibility of the student-athlete to revise the opportunity and provide a new proposal to the University. The revised proposal will be subject to this same review process as if it were a new proposal. If a student-athlete engages in any conduct that the University identifies as inconsistent with this Policy, the student-athlete will be in violation of this Policy. A student-athlete may appeal a University determination that their proposed NIL activity could harm the University’s reputation or would be inconsistent with Georgetown’s Catholic and Jesuit identity by submitting an appeal in writing to the Athletics Department through athleticscompliance@georgetown.edu 7 days following such notification from the University. Appeals will be considered by the University's Office of Public Affairs. Disclosures are to be made through the Athliance platform, and must provide a description of the activity, the parties involved, the value and nature of any compensation provided to the student-athlete, and a written copy of the proposal." guhoyas.com/feature/blueprintAdmittedly, I am not an expert on other schools' NIL policies. However, based on reading the legalese, Georgetown's policy seems a heckuva lot more restrictive than what I'd expect most schools are doing, at least the ones that are using NIL effectively. In addition, you still have the problem on WHO actually would pay the athletes for their NIL, while also following Georgetown's restrictive terms. A huge problem for Georgetown hoops is that Patrick Ewing is overseeing a losing program with very few engaged fans (relative to other Power Five + Big East + Gonzaga-type programs). While Georgetown has a ton of wealthy alumni, who wants to pony up what it takes NIL-wise to associate with Patrick Ewing's program? How much are you getting paid now by He Who Must Not Be Named? Can't be much. You are underselling yourself. You should put yourself on the open market. A person of your knowledge and talents could make alot more in NIL money from a real deep pocket booster. WFT are you talking about? Who is “he who must not be named?” |
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Post by cosmopolitanhoya on May 2, 2022 11:53:30 GMT -5
How much are you getting paid now by He Who Must Not Be Named? Can't be much. You are underselling yourself. You should put yourself on the open market. A person of your knowledge and talents could make alot more in NIL money from a real deep pocket booster. WFT are you talking about? Who is “he who must not be named?” Anyone critical of Ewing and Thompsons supposedly got some kinda agenda |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2022 12:10:44 GMT -5
Hopefully it’s true. Programs that don’t embrace NIL are going to be at a serious disadvantage moving forward.
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Post by professorhoya on May 2, 2022 12:27:04 GMT -5
WFT are you talking about? Who is “he who must not be named?” Anyone critical of Ewing and Thompsons supposedly got some kinda agenda False. 2003 has no agenda. |
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on May 2, 2022 12:29:49 GMT -5
Anyone critical of Ewing and Thompsons supposedly got some kinda agenda False. 2003 has no agenda. All I asked was whether Georgetown could directly get involved in NIL. I have no idea how I am involved in this discussion at all, so moving on. To bring it back to the thread, I am kind of surprised that Georgetown facilitating $200K of NIL to Ward isn't getting more attention. It raises the question of what, if any, NIL money is going Murray's way. I find it hard to believe that we would have facilitated $200K for Ward, and Murray gets nothing. |
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iowa80
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 2,407
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Post by iowa80 on May 2, 2022 12:51:14 GMT -5
False. 2003 has no agenda. All I asked was whether Georgetown could directly get involved in NIL. I have no idea how I am involved in this discussion at all, so moving on. To bring it back to the thread, I am kind of surprised that Georgetown facilitating $200K of NIL to Ward isn't getting more attention. It raises the question of what, if any, NIL money is going Murray's way. I find it hard to believe that we would have facilitated $200K for Ward, and Murray gets nothing. I know Aidan says he has “multiple sources,” but I just can’t buy the 200K. I have no.basis for saying so other than . . . Georgetown. |
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on May 2, 2022 12:58:51 GMT -5
False. 2003 has no agenda. All I asked was whether Georgetown could directly get involved in NIL. I have no idea how I am involved in this discussion at all, so moving on. To bring it back to the thread, I am kind of surprised that Georgetown facilitating $200K of NIL to Ward isn't getting more attention. It raises the question of what, if any, NIL money is going Murray's way. I find it hard to believe that we would have facilitated $200K for Ward, and Murray gets nothing. Something about what Hilltop Hoops reported has to be untrue. Either he reported it incorrectly or Georgetown is blatantly violating its own rules (which presumably are based on NCAA rules). Specifically, from Aidan's article: "Hoya fans have been quick to fall back on the “L$U” tagline to explain away losing another talented recruit to the Tigers, but multiple sources since Saturday have said that Georgetown offered an NIL package to Ward in the neighborhood of $200,000. So Georgetown fans can’t act like the Hoyas didn’t try and sweeten the pot for Ward too. LSU offered more than Georgetown did, but sources close to Ward insist that NIL wasn’t the determining factor in Ward’s decision. It is notable however, to hear that Georgetown is beginning to play in the mud when it comes to NIL. Unfortunately, it didn’t work out for them here." First of all, "Georgetown" cannot offer an NIL deal to an athlete as an inducement to procure his services. From GUHoyas.com: Georgetown University is not responsible for providing or procuring NIL opportunities for any student-athlete.An entity that supports Georgetown, but is not directly funded by/associated with the university, can offer an NIL deal. But that deal cannot be a quid pro quo in exchange for the athlete attending a specific university. From GUHoyas.com: "A student-athletes involvement in NIL activities will not excuse that student-athlete from the obligation to comply with: all NCAA and Georgetown University academic standards, requirements, regulations, policies, and obligations; team rules of conduct; University standards and policies regarding participation in intercollegiate athletics; or the Georgetown University Code of Conduct. NCAA prohibitions on pay-for-play arrangements remain in effect, and therefore student-athletes are prohibited from receiving compensation which is conditioned or contingent on enrolling at any specific collegiate institution, or on any specific athletic performance or achievement." A poster earlier today asked the most salient question. If somebody associated with Georgetown offered $200K, who was it and for what purposes? Because legally and according to Georgetown's own policies, it cannot have come from Georgetown directly and it could not have been in return for Ward's commitment to Georgetown. However, what about this potential loophole: Offer Jordan Brooks an assistant coaching position, pay him $200K more than what he's worth and verbally get Brooks to agree to pay Ward that extra $200K. Could this type of arrangement be happening and be what yielded Murray to Georgetown via Nickleberry? Where this fits in the NCAA rulebook I'm not sure, but it's probably not traceable or taxable income if it's provided to the recipient in less than $10K chunks. And most importantly, it doesn't require NIL participation from a well-funded Georgetown-associated entity (which currently doesn't exist). guhoyas.com/feature/blueprint |
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617hoya
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Post by 617hoya on May 2, 2022 13:01:38 GMT -5
Ron Bailey also said that GU “cobbled together some NIL” for Ward, but LSU outbid them still. Didn’t provide numbers like Aidan did but seems to add further evidence to GU offering an NIL package directly to Ward during this process.
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TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by TC on May 2, 2022 13:05:34 GMT -5
I know Aidan says he has “multiple sources,” but I just can’t buy the 200K. I have no.basis for saying so other than . . . Georgetown. Which part do you doubt - the amount of money ($200,000), or that we're apparently offering pay for play NIL deals like everyone else? I don't doubt the latter - this staff is desperate. |
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iowa80
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Post by iowa80 on May 2, 2022 13:12:19 GMT -5
I know Aidan says he has “multiple sources,” but I just can’t buy the 200K. I have no.basis for saying so other than . . . Georgetown. Which part do you doubt - the amount of money ($200,000), or that we're apparently offering pay for play NIL deals like everyone else? I don't doubt the latter - this staff is desperate. I doubt the number, not that we tried. I read here somewhere that another source said we cobbled together some bucks, which I can believe since the term sounds more like the Hilltop. Again, speculation on my part. |
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on May 2, 2022 13:28:08 GMT -5
Ron Bailey also said that GU “cobbled together some NIL” for Ward, but LSU outbid them still. Didn’t provide numbers like Aidan did but seems to add further evidence to GU offering an NIL package directly to Ward during this process. Again, "GU" can't offer "an NIL package directly to Ward during this process". That is blatantly against NCAA rules and Georgetown's posted university policy on GUHoyas.com. An entity outside of "GU" can offer an NIL package directly to Ward, but it's not supposed to be in return for him choosing to attend Georgetown. Of course, that latter clause we know is not how this is playing out in practice, see Miami and John Ruiz. However, Ruiz and his companies are entiities outside the University of Miami providing the NIL dollars. Who are the outside entities providing $200K worth of NIL dollars to entice Ward to attend Georgetown? |
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