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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on May 10, 2024 11:50:35 GMT -5
How is this discussion about Akok in the "current state of Hoyas" thread? I mean lets talk about what Tre Mitchell could have done while we are at it.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on May 10, 2024 11:51:26 GMT -5
Boya, If you don't think a healthy Akok that would have kept Ish and Heath off of the floor and provided instant rim protection that Cook couldn't provide wouldn't have been a massive help, then you know less about basketball than I thought. On last year's team, Akok might have been worth 4 additional wins. Heath and Akok play different positions and Heath still shot 37.2% from 3 last year. His defense sucked but he is a way better offensive player than Akok. Ish is a good point though but adding 4 extra wins is a stretch and that still isn't a good year. Have we ever seen a healthy Akok? Yes, at GU. Played 31 games. |
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Post by Ranch Dressing on May 10, 2024 11:51:31 GMT -5
We should never have let David Edwards and Eric Myles transfer.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on May 10, 2024 12:07:30 GMT -5
Ewing made the NIT in his second year with the McClung, Akinjo and LeBlanc team. Like Cooley his first year he did not have time to put together a full recruiting class of his kids. In many respects Cooley's job is harder given that the Hoyas have now been a consistently bad program for several years and this makes it harder to recruit elite players. However, Cooley's job is also easier in that he can utilize the transfer portal and NIL to recruit his team--two tools that Ewing did not have. As for respectability next year, given Cooley's prior experience as a head coach, I think a season with a winning record--even 16-15--and 7-8 wins in the BE is a major step in the right direction. Not so sure that the NIT will be in reach yet. More importantly though is going to be how the team progresses from November to February. Always felt the true measure of a coach is whether the team improves over the course of the year, something which did not happen this year. JTIII also left Cooley a bit more, player-wise, than Ewing left Cooley. Namely Jessie Govan. It was also a much weaker Big East than the Big East was last year. Ewing pulled in a decent class of Pickett and Blair (and others) on short notice that first year, and he inherited Govan, Derrickson and Kaleb Johnson, plus a sophomore Mosely. He pulled in a really great class the next year, talent wise, adding Akinjo, McClung and LeBlanc. Moseley developed. Decent transfer in Malinowski. He couldn't keep Derrickson one more year -- I think that's a (lucky) tournament team if he does. The future somewhat looked bright although the big question with Govan leaving was signficant. We replaced Govan with Yurtseven and Wahab as a frosh -- a thin freshman class but we were young. Terell Allen was a good transfer. But then Akinjo transferred, LeBlanc sucked and then transferred, Yurt turned pro, and that started the collapse. The next year added Harris and Sibley but was another small freshman class. The team wasn't very good offensively, but played defense and got hot in the BE tournament. Without Pickett, Bile, the transferred Wahab, Blair, playing a freshman Mohammed ... the defense collapsed. The offense wasn't any good and we were done. I think there's encouraging and discouraging factors about this offseason. The freshman class reminds me more of the quality of an Akinjo, McClung, LeBlanc level of crew. Some of the players we got in the transfer market remind more of the Pickett-type of defender - Harris, Blair, Pickett, Bile, Wahab, Carey was a relatively strong defensive team for the Ewing era. Then again, you can also trace the collapse to the going from Govan-Govan-Yurt-Wahab to Ryan-Tim-Malcom. Of course, we also added Massoud-level defender in Rice. We'll see. One would hope Cooley can do more than Ewing with what he's got. His track record says yes, but the 27 rank increase we saw last year was less than we hoped. Not retaining Wahab or Akok was a big killer in that. Really need that big. Good points all, thanks for the research. I think there's a lot to be said for a coach having his own men and, for the most part, transfers aren't that because a coach is inheriting their skills, good and bad. In that sense, the only complete "Cooley recruits" last year were Fielder and McKenna, leaving the staff to fill gaps with players having learned from different college environments. This year, he can add Sorber, Williams, and Mulready to the list. It's why UConn has become so scary good. Hurley gets a transfer here but doesn't rely on them the way Pitino does: he still develops players who go through the system: Castle, Clingan, Karaban. He's got three arriving in the top 60 this fall. Some combination of a 3-4-3 plan for Cooley (three impact freshmen, four veterans, three inbound transfers) could provide the stability that Georgetown has lacked since the Govan year you noted above. We should never have let David Edwards and Eric Myles transfer. The late David Edwards was a new generation of player who wasn't going to sit and take John Thompson's style of player relations, and he admitted as much in later years. He could have been really something in the Big East had he stayed, but the subsequent coaching changes at Texas A&M did not help him in the long run. |
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Post by Ranch Dressing on May 10, 2024 12:17:24 GMT -5
JTIII also left Cooley a bit more, player-wise, than Ewing left Cooley. Namely Jessie Govan. It was also a much weaker Big East than the Big East was last year. Ewing pulled in a decent class of Pickett and Blair (and others) on short notice that first year, and he inherited Govan, Derrickson and Kaleb Johnson, plus a sophomore Mosely. He pulled in a really great class the next year, talent wise, adding Akinjo, McClung and LeBlanc. Moseley developed. Decent transfer in Malinowski. He couldn't keep Derrickson one more year -- I think that's a (lucky) tournament team if he does. The future somewhat looked bright although the big question with Govan leaving was signficant. We replaced Govan with Yurtseven and Wahab as a frosh -- a thin freshman class but we were young. Terell Allen was a good transfer. But then Akinjo transferred, LeBlanc sucked and then transferred, Yurt turned pro, and that started the collapse. The next year added Harris and Sibley but was another small freshman class. The team wasn't very good offensively, but played defense and got hot in the BE tournament. Without Pickett, Bile, the transferred Wahab, Blair, playing a freshman Mohammed ... the defense collapsed. The offense wasn't any good and we were done. I think there's encouraging and discouraging factors about this offseason. The freshman class reminds me more of the quality of an Akinjo, McClung, LeBlanc level of crew. Some of the players we got in the transfer market remind more of the Pickett-type of defender - Harris, Blair, Pickett, Bile, Wahab, Carey was a relatively strong defensive team for the Ewing era. Then again, you can also trace the collapse to the going from Govan-Govan-Yurt-Wahab to Ryan-Tim-Malcom. Of course, we also added Massoud-level defender in Rice. We'll see. One would hope Cooley can do more than Ewing with what he's got. His track record says yes, but the 27 rank increase we saw last year was less than we hoped. Not retaining Wahab or Akok was a big killer in that. Really need that big. Good points all, thanks for the research. I think there's a lot to be said for a coach having his own men and, for the most part, transfers aren't that because a coach is inheriting their skills, good and bad. In that sense, the only complete "Cooley recruits" last year were Fielder and McKenna, leaving the staff to fill gaps with players having learned from different college environments. This year, he can add Sorber, Williams, and Mulready to the list. It's why UConn has become so scary good. Hurley gets a transfer here but doesn't rely on them the way Pitino does: he still develops players who go through the system: Castle, Clingan, Karaban. He's got three arriving in the top 60 this fall. Some combination of a 3-4-3 plan for Cooley (three impact freshmen, four veterans, three inbound transfers) could provide the stability that Georgetown has lacked since the Govan year you noted above. We should never have let David Edwards and Eric Myles transfer. The late David Edwards was a new generation of player who wasn't going to sit and take John Thompson's style of player relations, and he admitted as much in later years. He could have been really something in the Big East had he stayed, but the subsequent coaching changes at Texas A&M did not help him in the long run. I was kinda joking - just pulling some random names from the past. |
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on May 10, 2024 12:39:48 GMT -5
Good piece here from Eamonn Brennan, formerly of The Athletic: open.substack.com/pub/eamonnbrennan/p/should-georgetown-fans-be-worriedAccurately sets the baseline for improvement as needing to be a tournament team next year. “Maybe this is expecting too much too soon. But if Georgetown isn’t ready to compete for a tournament spot in year two, after such a titanic, proven hire, these questions will get louder. Georgetown should already be better.” If the "baseline" is tournament or bust this coming season, that is setting the program up for failure because it is unrealistic. I agree with the author that we "should already be better." But, we aren't. Or at least we weren't as of the last game we played this season. I do think we will be better with the incoming freshman and transfers. But imagine the following scenario: - We land a center who is solid but not great. - Over the summer, Cooley and company get some good pieces for 2025. - The freshman as a group perform well overall. Sorber shows flashes of brilliance, but is still a freshman, so do the others. - Fielder has a really nice freshman to sophomore jump. Not a Porter-like one, but really good. - We improve substantially on defense. No longer ranked 321, we are let's say 85 on defense. - Our offense improves off last year, let's say we are the 65th best offense. - Though substantially improved overall, we are in the 70-90 range on KenPom, and finish the season something like 7-13 or 8-10. We aren't in the bubble discussion but a few more wins, and we would be. Under the scenario above, where there is substantial improvement, but we aren't quite ready for the tournament, it would seem odd to say that's a failed season given the past 2-18 season. And that is particularly so if Cooley retains our good players for the following season, in which case a Year 3 tournament bid should be expected. To me, that's what I am looking for to see success. A much improved team, top 100 on offense, defense, and overall, and a scenario where if we get a little better in Year 3, we'll be an at large team. Like everyone I wanted this to happen last year. But, it didn't. It's annoying and frustrating as a fan, but there's nothing we can do about that now. |
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kghoya
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Post by kghoya on May 10, 2024 12:43:05 GMT -5
Myles was also a new generation player in that he only really took 3s. Way ahead of his time.
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on May 10, 2024 13:16:36 GMT -5
Good points all, thanks for the research. I think there's a lot to be said for a coach having his own men and, for the most part, transfers aren't that because a coach is inheriting their skills, good and bad. In that sense, the only complete "Cooley recruits" last year were Fielder and McKenna, leaving the staff to fill gaps with players having learned from different college environments. This year, he can add Sorber, Williams, and Mulready to the list. It's why UConn has become so scary good. Hurley gets a transfer here but doesn't rely on them the way Pitino does: he still develops players who go through the system: Castle, Clingan, Karaban. He's got three arriving in the top 60 this fall. Some combination of a 3-4-3 plan for Cooley (three impact freshmen, four veterans, three inbound transfers) could provide the stability that Georgetown has lacked since the Govan year you noted above. Agree. The transfers have been a big problem since the end of the JT, Jr. Era. It's one of the reasons JT3 declined at the end -- we had two big classes that didn't deliver because of transfers and injuries. And as I noted, Ewing wasn't doing that poorly -- even though I agree his tactical elements were not strong -- until he couldn't retain the talent he recruited. I think Cooley's pretty good at select offensive play calling. His out of bounds plays are excellent. His offensive play calling was erratic -- we freestyled too much last year but when we did run stuff it was largely effective. I think his strategic choices last year on defense were correct in a longer term context but his tactical plan was clearly a disaster. That said, that was never the draw of Cooley. He's always been a culture and motivator guy. The idea was that he would recruit better at Georgetown than Providence. Our under Ewing struggled to play as a team and at times struggled to play hard. Some players clearly gave up. Players transferred left and right. This year will be very telling. Specific targets aren't really the point. These are much more his guys; will we see the improvement we expected last year? Will players improve? Will we be able to retain the players we want to? Will we be able to follow a great recruiting class with at least another strong class, even if smaller? It's not a slam dunk, even if you think Cooley is a pretty good coach. We currently have two upperclassmen on the roster. We may add a third. Aside from Peavy, we have guys who either are freshmen or have been called out for missing assignment in team D a decent amount last year (granted, most were freshmen then). It will require a coaching job. But this is what we hired him for. I'm sure what improvement to expect exactly in terms of numbers or ank -- and a center or not will absolutely matter -- but it can't be last year. It needs to be a real BE defense. Significant improvement with his guys. It's a young team so we shouldn't necessarily expect an amazing increase, but we need to take a step change on defense. Good player retention. We currently have 8 scholarship freshmen and sophomores. We will see transfers. But we need retain most of a core. Unless we retain a massive % of our players, we can't have minimal 2025 recruiting. I don't mind if some of this comes in the form of younger transfers (like Mack), but if we find ourselves constantly plugging large parts of the roster with upperclassmen transfers, I think we'll struggle. |
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on May 11, 2024 9:50:35 GMT -5
We should never have let David Edwards and Eric Myles transfer. And we should have fought the French Army much harder for the rights to Eric Micoud… I mean how much had Big John lost his fastball? He lost a battle to France…. |
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CTHoya08
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Post by CTHoya08 on May 11, 2024 17:17:04 GMT -5
We should never have let David Edwards and Eric Myles transfer. And we should have fought the French Army much harder for the rights to Eric Micoud… I mean how much had Big John lost his fastball? He lost a battle to France…. Wasn’t that a gambit to bring in some other guy, though? A Virginian, I believe. |
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on May 11, 2024 17:36:14 GMT -5
And we should have fought the French Army much harder for the rights to Eric Micoud…I mean how much had Big John lost his fastball? He lost a battle to France…. In hindsight, I wondered if that was all a tall tale, given that Eric Micoud played professionally for Besancon in France the year he was said to be in the army. |
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on May 12, 2024 6:13:11 GMT -5
And we should have fought the French Army much harder for the rights to Eric Micoud…I mean how much had Big John lost his fastball? He lost a battle to France…. In hindsight, I wondered if that was all a tall tale, given that Eric Micoud played professionally for Besancon in France the year he was said to be in the army. My post was mostly tongue in cheek. |
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concord
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Post by concord on May 12, 2024 9:16:58 GMT -5
Rumors of Lampkin decommitting from Cuse (removed all the orange emojis from his social media, I guess). Clearly he would fill a need and I know we were on his shortlist the last time around, to say nothing of his role in PC maniac anti-Cooley lore. But there’s a lot going on there.
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jackofjoy
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Post by jackofjoy on May 12, 2024 11:48:05 GMT -5
Rumors of Lampkin decommitting from Cuse (removed all the orange emojis from his social media, I guess). Clearly he would fill a need and I know we were on his shortlist the last time around, to say nothing of his role in PC maniac anti-Cooley lore. But there’s a lot going on there. Not saying Lampkin is the answer but If what Cooley said at recent events is true - "it's only about NIL" (personally I think there's at least a little bit of almost every player that factors in a winning program attached to it) then it's really the wild west and you have to assume coaches and programs are continuing to reach out even after players transfer because why not. Wonder if like a lot of post-rubble transfer/NIL landscape the NCAA will eventually (try to) enforce something where once you announce your transfer you have to stay committed (or some anti-tampering rule related to it). In the meantime, why wouldn't you keep recruiting a kid even after a theoretical transfer commitment elsewhere? |
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DanMcQ
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Post by DanMcQ on May 12, 2024 19:29:22 GMT -5
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on May 13, 2024 7:41:29 GMT -5
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Post by frood92 on May 13, 2024 8:24:01 GMT -5
We should never have let David Edwards and Eric Myles transfer. RIP David Edwards |
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Post by FromTheBeginning on May 13, 2024 10:00:19 GMT -5
Maybe Franklin General is Boya’s commanding officer.
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hoya9797
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Post by hoya9797 on May 13, 2024 11:19:12 GMT -5
Feels like this is trying to apply a level of unnecessary precision to something that is, to be generous, an inexact science. |
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on May 13, 2024 18:07:40 GMT -5
Feels like this is trying to apply a level of unnecessary precision to something that is, to be generous, an inexact science. Yes. I find it amusing that they make a big deal about how Georgetown is "4 points behind SJU, a significant gap, 17 spots in the national rankings." Meanwhile, Providence is ranked lower than us, so by definition, they are even more spots behind in the national rankings than we are. It's kind of a self-own without realizing it. I have never seen a fan base so obsessed with a former coach. What is really happening here with these trolls is that they are trying desperately to convince themselves that they're better off without the guy they really, really, really, wanted to be coaching their team. If he was so bad, then they should be happy he's gone and be more focused on their future. |
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