John Thompson Jr 1941-2020

[jwp91]

Sept 3, 2020 12:06:41 GMT -5 blueandgray said:

Sept 3, 2020 11:18:42 GMT -5 hoyafansinceewingera said:

I was around during those days and I was so frustrated that we didn't land a lot of top stars in spite of the fact that these guys wanted to come to Georgetown.  Some of these guys were so upset that they were not able to come to Georgetown.  Let me throw out some names of the guys that were superstars in college who wanted to come to Georgetown that I know of:

Grant Hill
Waymon Tisdale
Dennis Scott
Kenny Anderson
Stephon Marbury (I think but not certain)
Damn near everybody at Dematha-especially
 Jerrod  Mustaf

These are the guys I know for sure.  I'm pretty sure there were plenty of more that I don't know of and of some I've forgotten.  The Dematha situation is very very interesting.

Coach Thompson was a great man but one of his flaws, in my honest opinion, is that he was vindictive.   Maybe that may be too harsh of a word "vindictive" but anyways, he held a grudge against Dematha High School and he refused to recruit Dematha kids.  To me it hurt us so badly with Dematha that lasted years until JTIII came along and recruited A Freeman. 

Coach Thompson absolutely refused to recruit from Dematha because they didn't hire him to coach their team or something strange like that.  Coach Thompson also refused to schedule to play Maryland University for years.  To me that hurt us too.  The reason being is because I think it isolated us for years high school kids in the area. 

I understand you can only get so many kids on the roster but compared to those college superstars I mentioned, the players we had could not even compare to those guys position for position.  We all know about how great Grant Hill was.  Waymon Tisdale was like one of the all time scoring leaders in college basketball from what I can remember.  Kenny Anderson, oh my god was so good.  Jerrod Mustaf was a beast.  Georgetown with all it's glory, I can say has made a lot of mistakes over the years that has gotten us to where we are today with recruiting the best players in my opinion.

You can add Steve Francis to this list. Pops literally said no because he was worn out by it all.

Francis was an immense talent, but he was actively dealing drugs. I don’t think you take that risk except in hindsight.

[Deleted]

Okay, I love Coach Big John and I mentioned he was my hero because of the things he did for the black community. However, I knew one thing about him a long time ago which I had learned from one of his players whom I spoke about on these boards. I spoke with Fred Brown years ago when he was in graduate school. He was angry with coach because he said coach didn't help him out with landing any job prospects. I mean he was very bitter. The article provided by one of the posters goes into how Big John wasn't loyal to certain players after they played for him and left the university. Here is an excerpt:

Is John Thompson loyal to his former players and coaches?

Some of Thompson's players, particularly from his pre-Ewing days, are extremely bitter and haven't spoken to him in years. His first three big-name signings from his own high school team -- Greg Brooks, Jonathan Smith and Merlin Wilson -- want nothing to do with the program, mostly because they believe Thompson lost interest in them once they stopped playing and left school. And yet their teammate Aaron Long, a seldom-used reserve, to this day remains a close Thompson confidant and speaks in glowing terms of his old coach.

Thompson can hardly be expected to have close relationships with every athlete who came through the program, but several former players (especially Craig Shelton) have complained that Thompson, in addition to being inaccessible, has done virtually nothing to show his appreciation for their past contributions. Many schools, for example, bring back players from the past for special halftime or pregame ceremonies. Not Georgetown. "It's like we were never there," said one former player. "They don't even invite me to the team banquet, and I live 10 minutes from campus."

Like I said, Coach Big John is still my hero but it goes to show how much good and bad, complexity and flaws we all have and it is mainly because we are human.

Surely Coach Big John was a very very complex person.

The link to the article: www.washingtonpost.com/archive/sports/1991/02/03/inside-the-man-what-makes-thompson-tick/954c2fe0-1f3c-49cb-a143-29d96cf837ee/

[professorhoya]

Sept 3, 2020 15:42:53 GMT -5 jwp91 said:

Sept 3, 2020 12:06:41 GMT -5 blueandgray said:

You can add Steve Francis to this list. Pops literally said no because he was worn out by it all.

Francis was an immense talent, but he was actively dealing drugs. I don’t think you take that risk except in hindsight.

"A year later, I had Gary Williams and John Thompson calling about me. Oklahoma and Clemson were coming hard after me, too, but I’d grown up watching Len Bias and Patrick Ewing. For me, it was either Maryland or Georgetown, period.

And it was almost Georgetown. But I’ll never forget the conversation I had with John Thompson. He said, “Steve, we like you. We do. But I just had Allen Iverson. I can’t have you right after Allen. I just can’t have it, Steve. I’ll have a heart attack.”

I respected it. He was right. He saw all those hangers-on who were around Allen all the time at Georgetown, and he knew they’d just be waiting for me to come through. So my junior year, when I was already 21 years old, I transferred to Maryland."

www.theplayerstribune.com/en-us/articles/steve-francis-i-got-a-story-to-tell

[DanMcQ]

[the_way]

Coach Thompson had his reason for recruiting kids.

It was said one time he was recruiting a big-time talent and on the in-home recruiting visit the kid ordered his mother to go fetch him (the kid) something to drink. Coach didn't like that type of attitude and backed off the kid.

A lot of guys might have wanted to play, in theory, but everybody wasn't Georgetown-caliber. I'm not referring to just academics and going to class. Are you selfless? Do you give 100%? Are you about the team? Look at Ewing. He never was above his teammates. Humble and hardworking. Same with Reggie. Same with Mourning. Well, Mourning didn't like playing PF with Mutombo at C because Mourning considered himself as a C. He sacrificed and played anyway to help the team. Even Iverson while he was at G-town was down for his teammates.

With the Grant Hill story, Grant might have been offended. You could understand why he might have been offended. Maybe Ms. Fenlon asked all potential recruits to do the same? Unfortunately, some top flight talent got passed through school without acquiring the basic skills of reading and writing. Played college ball too lacking these skills. You have to decide if that is the case from the start. Most schools didn't care.


As far as Dematha, Coach Thompson went to the Hall of Fame, won Big East championships, multiple Final Fours, and a National title. The DC area is like the state of Florida with football. One school isn't the end all or be all for players. That beef between Coach Wooten and Coach Thompson wasn't one-sided either.

Coach wasn't perfect. Nobody is perfect. However, the results and his body of work speak for themselves.

May he rest in peace.

[mdtd]

Very good thread, but this is the main takeaway IMO

[SirSaxa]

Someone already posted this. I just wanted to find the original and "Like" it. I just watched an hour and 15 minutes of a great conversation among Gene Smith, Horace Broadnax, Jaren Jackson, Mark Tillmon and Jerome Williams. Hosted by Jeff Goodman. Great stories from over the years and the impact JT had on each of them, the team, the program and more. Apologies to whomever posted this first for not recognizing your contribution.

[DanMcQ]

[SirSaxa]

Nicely done by Coach Pat and his folks.

[DanMcQ]

www.hoyasaxa.com/sports/archives/archive0920.htm#3

[MCIGuy]

Sept 3, 2020 9:52:17 GMT -5 drquigley said:

A question for the Board. Listening to the many JT tributes from former college greats and NBA players one thing stuck out. So many of these players said they loved the Hoyas growing up and would love to have played for JT. Yet none of them did. I'm sure there were probably circumstances preventing their successful recruitment but it is very frustrating to hear guys like Grant Hill say how they worshiped Hoya basketball yet wound up elsewhere. Any idea why this happened?

LOL. Why do you think I made the Green Eggs & Ham reference about G. Hill and mentioned how I could not watch Hill's his tribute on TNT? May have missed my line about how he should have been a Hoya.

Grant Hill indeed was a huge fan of Georgetown. He went to every home game with his dad while growing up. He idolized former Hoya Michael Jackson who graduated eight years earlier from the same high school Grant went to (South Lakes). His number he wore in high school was 32 in tribute to Jackson who wore the same number. When he went to Duke he couldn't wear 32 because Christian Laettner was wearing that number. So Grant went with 33 which was Ewing's number. When he was introduced to the Hall of Fame Grant, who kept wearing 33 throughout his pro career, asked Ewing to be one of the three Hall of Famers to be on stage for that introduction. His mom wanted him to go to Georgetown. The TNT tribute even added some details about how deep his devotion to the Hoyas that I wasn't even aware of. By all measures Hill should have picked Georgwtown.

Why it didn't happen is attributed to one fateful meeting. Thompson and his academic advisor Mary Fenlon made the trip to the Hill's home for the official visit. And during that meeting, in front of his parents, Fenlon pulled out some book or text and asked Grant to read from it in order to gauge his reading level. This was typical of how JT did things, this was why Fenlon often accompanied him on recruiting visits; not just to talk about the educational opportunities at Georgetown but to also administer these type of tests. One would think SAT and other measurements would be good enough but Thompson and or Fenlon were a little quirky on this front. That was the way they did things and maybe for most of the players and families of players this was acceptable. As unorthodox as that approach was it may have been effective in determining the education level of previous recruits from rougher backgrounds. To the Hills though, from all reports, it was insulting. And I don't blame them. Grant was a very good student from a very good high school. Both of his parents were not only college educated but went to elite universities and were high profile professionals. There is something about being able to read a room, a situation and I suppose JT and Fenlon failed when it came to this meeting. That pretty much ended Georgetown's chances.

When I first learned of the story I was surprised and appalled. I wondered just how deeply JT and Fenlon offended the Hills and then made up a worst case scenario in which the book Grant was given to read from was Green Eggs & Ham. Just a joke to hide my ever-lasting pain. There have been a couple on the board over the years who have questioned or disputed the alidity of the story about this meeting but there have been credible sources who back this version of what went down including Grant Hill himself who confirmed it in a Sunday Parade interview. But as the years have gone by he doesn't acknowledge it anymore. Clearly he put it behind him and doesn't hold onto any bitterness. Why would he? Things worked out great for him at Duke and beyond.

Fascinating enough ESPN U replayed the Duke at Georgetown game in December 1990 for the Big East-ACC Challenge a few days ago. It was very early in Hill’s Duke career and there he was back in the arena he had often visited to watch his favorite team which was now the team he was playing against. What I had forgotten was that game was the second of a double header . The first, in the same arena, matched St. John’s against Georgia Tech. Georgia Tech happened to have a second year super star in Kenny Anderson who was also seen by many as a Georgetown lock during his high school days. Although Anderson grew up in NYC, he was a Hoya fanatic. He even wore the Georgetown jacket between classes in high school. Georgetown was his dream school. Why didn’t end up at GU? Well, it wasn’t as if the Hoyas were covered as extensively as the Redskins so details were hard to come by but enough reports, from media both in Washington and New York, indicated that John Thompson did not show enough love.

Despite some very big fish he reeled in, Thompson’s recruiting style wasn’t atypical. Craig Esherick once pointed out that it was often normal for JT to wait for the recruits to show interest in Georgetown before he started showing interest in them. Considering so many stories I have heard by former great college players who stated they were disappointed Georgetown never recruited them this sounds about right. But by all accounts Kenny did let it be known he was interested in Georgetown. Thompson never went to New York for an official visit with him though. If I’m not mistaken he didn’t even give Kenny a phone call.

The question has always been why this was the case. There was talk that Thompson was too busy as the coach for Team USA in the upcoming Olympics. But what kind of excuse is that? He still had responsibilities for the Georgetown program. At the very least he could have given a phone call. Then there was the line JT said in response to such questions in which he claimed he doesn’t need “hamburger All-Americans” to bring up the ball….which was his way of saying he doesn’t need Five Star/McDonald All American level guards for his teams. That attitude has been one that characterized Thompson for much of his career. There are those who would insist that Thompson only really went all-out in recruiting when the targets were big men. But more than anything it was kinda known that Thompson didn’t like recruiting at all. Most coaches didn’t but Thompson REALLY hated it. This explained some of the discrepancy of talent even among the top nine or ten guys on his team. Thompson’s efforts in recruiting really went south after winning a championship. Yes, he will still bring in some elite talent after that but a few have suggested that he proved himself with the title in 1984 and no longer felt the need to prove himself further by working hard on the recruiting trail. Gary Williams of Maryland went through a similar phase after winning his single title.

During Alonzo Mourning’s sophomore season when he was teamed with Mutombo, Mark Tillmon and Dwayne Bryant in the starting lineup, Thomas Boswell wrote a column that the one thing holding the Hoyas back was not having the type of multi-purpose, 6-6 small forward that he stated every other team seemed to have. The Michael Tate thing didn’t work out. At times Thompson started Sam Jefferson at the three. Jefferson had no skills to play that spot; he was a big man although a thin one. Grant Hill could have definitely filled that need and then some the following season. He could have in theory been on a team alongside side the M&M Boys as well as Kenny Anderson. The person playing the two-spot could have been me and the Hoyas could have won a title with such a lineup. Instead in that season the Hoyas had Joey Brown and Robert Churchwell. No offense to those guys; they played hard and gave all they had for four years each. But they weren’t near the level of Anderson and Hill.

One could argue that the pendulum swung back towards the ACC for good when Duke and Laettner defeated Georgetown and Mourning in the 1989 Regional Finals at the Meadowlands. But in my opinion even more decisive was the Big East losing out on guys like Kenny and Grant, both of whom could have been, should have been, Hoyas. Undoubtedly JT built a great legacy, but his mistakes on the recruiting trail (or not even walking down the trail) possibly limited even much larger on-court success. If he had retained a hunger after winning a championship in the way that Coach K has or Jim Calhoun did, he could have OWNED college basketball considering his status in the African American community. I’m thinking about four titles or more.

[MCIGuy]

Sept 3, 2020 11:18:42 GMT -5 hoyafansinceewingera said:

Sept 3, 2020 9:52:17 GMT -5 drquigley said:

A question for the Board. Listening to the many JT tributes from former college greats and NBA players one thing stuck out. So many of these players said they loved the Hoyas growing up and would love to have played for JT. Yet none of them did. I'm sure there were probably circumstances preventing their successful recruitment but it is very frustrating to hear guys like Grant Hill say how they worshiped Hoya basketball yet wound up elsewhere. Any idea why this happened?

I was around during those days and I was so frustrated that we didn't land a lot of top stars in spite of the fact that these guys wanted to come to Georgetown.  Some of these guys were so upset that they were not able to come to Georgetown.  Let me throw out some names of the guys that were superstars in college who wanted to come to Georgetown that I know of:

Grant Hill
Waymon Tisdale
Dennis Scott
Kenny Anderson
Stephon Marbury (I think but not certain)
Damn near everybody at Dematha-especially
 Jerrod  Mustaf

These are the guys I know for sure.  I'm pretty sure there were plenty of more that I don't know of and of some I've forgotten.  The Dematha situation is very very interesting.

Coach Thompson was a great man but one of his flaws, in my honest opinion, is that he was vindictive.   Maybe that may be too harsh of a word "vindictive" but anyways, he held a grudge against Dematha High School and he refused to recruit Dematha kids.  To me it hurt us so badly with Dematha that lasted years until JTIII came along and recruited A Freeman. 

Coach Thompson absolutely refused to recruit from Dematha because they didn't hire him to coach their team or something strange like that.  Coach Thompson also refused to schedule to play Maryland University for years.  To me that hurt us too.  The reason being is because I think it isolated us for years high school kids in the area. 

I understand you can only get so many kids on the roster but compared to those college superstars I mentioned, the players we had could not even compare to those guys position for position.  We all know about how great Grant Hill was.  Waymon Tisdale was like one of the all time scoring leaders in college basketball from what I can remember.  Kenny Anderson, oh my god was so good.  Jerrod Mustaf was a beast.  Georgetown with all it's glory, I can say has made a lot of mistakes over the years that has gotten us to where we are today with recruiting the best players in my opinion.

Don't forget Chris Jackson and Billy Owens, both of whom made claims that they waited on Hoya offers that never came. Would they have gone to Georgetown if the offers were made? can't say for sure but I wouldn't have bet against it.

Shaq was so hurt and upset that he didn't get a Georgetown offer that he tried to punish former Hoya big men for his first years in the NBA (Steve Francis also had this attitude towards former Georgetown players in the NBA for the same reason). But in Thompson's defense he already had Alonzo and Dikembe in the fold. There was no room for Shaq.

Also Corliss Williamson was seen as a heavy Georgetown lean supposedly by a few who knew him. Can't confirm that but what can be confirmed is that no offer came from Big John who was concentrating on Othella and apparently Duane Spencer.

[DallasHoya]

Sept 5, 2020 7:09:29 GMT -5 MCIGuy said:

Sept 3, 2020 9:52:17 GMT -5 drquigley said:

A question for the Board. Listening to the many JT tributes from former college greats and NBA players one thing stuck out. So many of these players said they loved the Hoyas growing up and would love to have played for JT. Yet none of them did. I'm sure there were probably circumstances preventing their successful recruitment but it is very frustrating to hear guys like Grant Hill say how they worshiped Hoya basketball yet wound up elsewhere. Any idea why this happened?

LOL. Why do you think I made the Green Eggs & Ham reference about G. Hill and mentioned how I could not watch Hill's his tribute on TNT? May have missed my line about how he should have been a Hoya.

Grant Hill indeed was a huge fan of Georgetown. He went to every home game with his dad while growing up. He idolized former Hoya Michael Jackson who graduated eight years earlier from the same high school Grant went to (South Lakes). His number he wore in high school was 32 in tribute to Jackson who wore the same number. When he went to Duke he couldn't wear 32 because Christian Laettner was wearing that number. So Grant went with 33 which was Ewing's number. When he was introduced to the Hall of Fame Grant, who kept wearing 33 throughout his pro career, asked Ewing to be one of the three Hall of Famers to be on stage for that introduction. His mom wanted him to go to Georgetown. The TNT tribute even added some details about how deep his devotion to the Hoyas that I wasn't even aware of. By all measures Hill should have picked Georgwtown.

Why it didn't happen is attributed to one fateful meeting. Thompson and his academic advisor Mary Fenlon made the trip to the Hill's home for the official visit. And during that meeting, in front of his parents, Fenlon pulled out some book or text and asked Grant to read from it in order to gauge his reading level. This was typical of how JT did things, this was why Fenlon often accompanied him on recruiting visits; not just to talk about the educational opportunities at Georgetown but to also administer these type of tests. One would think SAT and other measurements would be good enough but Thompson and or Fenlon were a little quirky on this front. That was the way they did things and maybe for most of the players and families of players this was acceptable. As unorthodox as that approach was it may have been effective in determining the education level of previous recruits from rougher backgrounds. To the Hills though, from all reports, it was insulting. And I don't blame them. Grant was a very good student from a very good high school. Both of his parents were not only college educated but went to elite universities and were high profile professionals. There is something about being able to read a room, a situation and I suppose JT and Fenlon failed when it came to this meeting. That pretty much ended Georgetown's chances.

When I first learned of the story I was surprised and appalled. I wondered just how deeply JT and Fenlon offended the Hills and then made up a worst case scenario in which the book Grant was given to read from was Green Eggs & Ham. Just a joke to hide my ever-lasting pain. There have been a couple on the board over the years who have questioned or disputed the alidity of the story about this meeting but there have been credible sources who back this version of what went down including Grant Hill himself who confirmed it in a Sunday Parade interview. But as the years have gone by he doesn't acknowledge it anymore. Clearly he put it behind him and doesn't hold onto any bitterness. Why would he? Things worked out great for him at Duke and beyond.

Fascinating enough ESPN U replayed the Duke at Georgetown game in December 1990 for the Big East-ACC Challenge a few days ago. It was very early in Hill’s Duke career and there he was back in the arena he had often visited to watch his favorite team which was now the team he was playing against. What I had forgotten was that game was the second of a double header . The first, in the same arena, matched St. John’s against Georgia Tech. Georgia Tech happened to have a second year super star in Kenny Anderson who was also seen by many as a Georgetown lock during his high school days. Although Anderson grew up in NYC, he was a Hoya fanatic. He even wore the Georgetown jacket between classes in high school. Georgetown was his dream school. Why didn’t end up at GU? Well, it wasn’t as if the Hoyas were covered as extensively as the Redskins so details were hard to come by but enough reports, from media both in Washington and New York, indicated that John Thompson did not show enough love.

Despite some very big fish he reeled in, Thompson’s recruiting style wasn’t atypical. Craig Esherick once pointed out that it was often normal for JT to wait for the recruits to show interest in Georgetown before he started showing interest in them. Considering so many stories I have heard by former great college players who stated they were disappointed Georgetown never recruited them this sounds about right. But by all accounts Kenny did let it be known he was interested in Georgetown. Thompson never went to New York for an official visit with him though. If I’m not mistaken he didn’t even give Kenny a phone call.

The question has always been why this was the case. There was talk that Thompson was too busy as the coach for Team USA in the upcoming Olympics. But what kind of excuse is that? He still had responsibilities for the Georgetown program. At the very least he could have given a phone call. Then there was the line JT said in response to such questions in which he claimed he doesn’t need “hamburger All-Americans” to bring up the ball….which was his way of saying he doesn’t need Five Star/McDonald All American level guards for his teams. That attitude has been one that characterized Thompson for much of his career. There are those who would insist that Thompson only really went all-out in recruiting when the targets were big men. But more than anything it was kinda known that Thompson didn’t like recruiting at all. Most coaches didn’t but Thompson REALLY hated it. This explained some of the discrepancy of talent even among the top nine or ten guys on his team. Thompson’s efforts in recruiting really went south after winning a championship. Yes, he will still bring in some elite talent after that but a few have suggested that he proved himself with the title in 1984 and no longer felt the need to prove himself further by working hard on the recruiting trail. Gary Williams of Maryland went through a similar phase after winning his single title.

During Alonzo Mourning’s sophomore season when he was teamed with Mutombo, Mark Tillmon and Dwayne Bryant in the starting lineup, Thomas Boswell wrote a column that the one thing holding the Hoyas back was not having the type of multi-purpose, 6-6 small forward that he stated every other team seemed to have. The Michael Tate thing didn’t work out. At times Thompson started Sam Jefferson at the three. Jefferson had no skills to play that spot; he was a big man although a thin one. Grant Hill could have definitely filled that need and then some the following season. He could have in theory been on a team alongside side the M&M Boys as well as Kenny Anderson. The person playing the two-spot could have been me and the Hoyas could have won a title with such a lineup. Instead in that season the Hoyas had Joey Brown and Robert Churchwell. No offense to those guys; they played hard and gave all they had for four years each. But they weren’t near the level of Anderson and Hill.

One could argue that the pendulum swung back towards the ACC for good when Duke and Laettner defeated Georgetown and Mourning in the 1989 Regional Finals at the Meadowlands. But in my opinion even more decisive was the Big East losing out on guys like Kenny and Grant, both of whom could have been, should have been, Hoyas. Undoubtedly JT built a great legacy, but his mistakes on the recruiting trail (or not even walking down the trail) possibly limited even much larger on-court success. If he had retained a hunger after winning a championship in the way that Coach K has or Jim Calhoun did, he could have OWNED college basketball considering his status in the African American community. I’m thinking about four titles or more.

Best and most accurate post ever made on Georgetown’s recruiting misses in the 80s and early 90s. Owning college basketball is absolutely correct.

A couple more tidbits.

Waymon Tisdale’s time at OU overlapped with Ewing’s at GU - 1982-1985. Saw an interview with Tisdale in the late 80s saying he really wanted to get an GU ofer, but I think Ewing plus a healthy Ralph Dalton is why Tisdale wasn’t recruited. (We forget how good Dalton could have been without his injury, which was devastating.) OU played Tisdale at center when he had PF size. Imagine a frontline combo of Tisdale and Ewing.

I remember being McDonough Gym in the summer of either 1985 or 1986 watching Flint Hill play someone. JT and Esh were in the rafters watching/scouting Dennis Scott and Sam Jefferson. Scott was shooting lights out and I barely remember Jefferson was even there. When I heard we signed Jefferson and not Scott I was incredulous.

[Deleted]

Found 10 classic Georgetown games from the John Thompson era on Youtube last night. I put the links on the video page.

[Deleted]

Sept 5, 2020 9:20:42 GMT -5 DallasHoya said:

Sept 5, 2020 7:09:29 GMT -5 MCIGuy said:

LOL. Why do you think I made the Green Eggs & Ham reference about G. Hill and mentioned how I could not watch Hill's his tribute on TNT? May have missed my line about how he should have been a Hoya.

Grant Hill indeed was a huge fan of Georgetown. He went to every home game with his dad while growing up. He idolized former Hoya Michael Jackson who graduated eight years earlier from the same high school Grant went to (South Lakes). His number he wore in high school was 32 in tribute to Jackson who wore the same number. When he went to Duke he couldn't wear 32 because Christian Laettner was wearing that number. So Grant went with 33 which was Ewing's number. When he was introduced to the Hall of Fame Grant, who kept wearing 33 throughout his pro career, asked Ewing to be one of the three Hall of Famers to be on stage for that introduction. His mom wanted him to go to Georgetown. The TNT tribute even added some details about how deep his devotion to the Hoyas that I wasn't even aware of. By all measures Hill should have picked Georgwtown.

Why it didn't happen is attributed to one fateful meeting. Thompson and his academic advisor Mary Fenlon made the trip to the Hill's home for the official visit. And during that meeting, in front of his parents, Fenlon pulled out some book or text and asked Grant to read from it in order to gauge his reading level. This was typical of how JT did things, this was why Fenlon often accompanied him on recruiting visits; not just to talk about the educational opportunities at Georgetown but to also administer these type of tests. One would think SAT and other measurements would be good enough but Thompson and or Fenlon were a little quirky on this front. That was the way they did things and maybe for most of the players and families of players this was acceptable. As unorthodox as that approach was it may have been effective in determining the education level of previous recruits from rougher backgrounds. To the Hills though, from all reports, it was insulting. And I don't blame them. Grant was a very good student from a very good high school. Both of his parents were not only college educated but went to elite universities and were high profile professionals. There is something about being able to read a room, a situation and I suppose JT and Fenlon failed when it came to this meeting. That pretty much ended Georgetown's chances.

When I first learned of the story I was surprised and appalled. I wondered just how deeply JT and Fenlon offended the Hills and then made up a worst case scenario in which the book Grant was given to read from was Green Eggs & Ham. Just a joke to hide my ever-lasting pain. There have been a couple on the board over the years who have questioned or disputed the alidity of the story about this meeting but there have been credible sources who back this version of what went down including Grant Hill himself who confirmed it in a Sunday Parade interview. But as the years have gone by he doesn't acknowledge it anymore. Clearly he put it behind him and doesn't hold onto any bitterness. Why would he? Things worked out great for him at Duke and beyond.

Fascinating enough ESPN U replayed the Duke at Georgetown game in December 1990 for the Big East-ACC Challenge a few days ago. It was very early in Hill’s Duke career and there he was back in the arena he had often visited to watch his favorite team which was now the team he was playing against. What I had forgotten was that game was the second of a double header . The first, in the same arena, matched St. John’s against Georgia Tech. Georgia Tech happened to have a second year super star in Kenny Anderson who was also seen by many as a Georgetown lock during his high school days. Although Anderson grew up in NYC, he was a Hoya fanatic. He even wore the Georgetown jacket between classes in high school. Georgetown was his dream school. Why didn’t end up at GU? Well, it wasn’t as if the Hoyas were covered as extensively as the Redskins so details were hard to come by but enough reports, from media both in Washington and New York, indicated that John Thompson did not show enough love.

Despite some very big fish he reeled in, Thompson’s recruiting style wasn’t atypical. Craig Esherick once pointed out that it was often normal for JT to wait for the recruits to show interest in Georgetown before he started showing interest in them. Considering so many stories I have heard by former great college players who stated they were disappointed Georgetown never recruited them this sounds about right. But by all accounts Kenny did let it be known he was interested in Georgetown. Thompson never went to New York for an official visit with him though. If I’m not mistaken he didn’t even give Kenny a phone call.

The question has always been why this was the case. There was talk that Thompson was too busy as the coach for Team USA in the upcoming Olympics. But what kind of excuse is that? He still had responsibilities for the Georgetown program. At the very least he could have given a phone call. Then there was the line JT said in response to such questions in which he claimed he doesn’t need “hamburger All-Americans” to bring up the ball….which was his way of saying he doesn’t need Five Star/McDonald All American level guards for his teams. That attitude has been one that characterized Thompson for much of his career. There are those who would insist that Thompson only really went all-out in recruiting when the targets were big men. But more than anything it was kinda known that Thompson didn’t like recruiting at all. Most coaches didn’t but Thompson REALLY hated it. This explained some of the discrepancy of talent even among the top nine or ten guys on his team. Thompson’s efforts in recruiting really went south after winning a championship. Yes, he will still bring in some elite talent after that but a few have suggested that he proved himself with the title in 1984 and no longer felt the need to prove himself further by working hard on the recruiting trail. Gary Williams of Maryland went through a similar phase after winning his single title.

During Alonzo Mourning’s sophomore season when he was teamed with Mutombo, Mark Tillmon and Dwayne Bryant in the starting lineup, Thomas Boswell wrote a column that the one thing holding the Hoyas back was not having the type of multi-purpose, 6-6 small forward that he stated every other team seemed to have. The Michael Tate thing didn’t work out. At times Thompson started Sam Jefferson at the three. Jefferson had no skills to play that spot; he was a big man although a thin one. Grant Hill could have definitely filled that need and then some the following season. He could have in theory been on a team alongside side the M&M Boys as well as Kenny Anderson. The person playing the two-spot could have been me and the Hoyas could have won a title with such a lineup. Instead in that season the Hoyas had Joey Brown and Robert Churchwell. No offense to those guys; they played hard and gave all they had for four years each. But they weren’t near the level of Anderson and Hill.

One could argue that the pendulum swung back towards the ACC for good when Duke and Laettner defeated Georgetown and Mourning in the 1989 Regional Finals at the Meadowlands. But in my opinion even more decisive was the Big East losing out on guys like Kenny and Grant, both of whom could have been, should have been, Hoyas. Undoubtedly JT built a great legacy, but his mistakes on the recruiting trail (or not even walking down the trail) possibly limited even much larger on-court success. If he had retained a hunger after winning a championship in the way that Coach K has or Jim Calhoun did, he could have OWNED college basketball considering his status in the African American community. I’m thinking about four titles or more.

Best and most accurate post ever made on Georgetown’s recruiting misses in the 80s and early 90s. Owning college basketball is absolutely correct.

A couple more tidbits.

Waymon Tisdale’s time at OU overlapped with Ewing’s at GU - 1982-1985. Saw an interview with Tisdale in the late 80s saying he really wanted to get an GU ofer, but I think Ewing plus a healthy Ralph Dalton is why Tisdale wasn’t recruited. (We forget how good Dalton could have been without his injury, which was devastating.) OU played Tisdale at center when he had PF size. Imagine a frontline combo of Tisdale and Ewing.

I remember being McDonough Gym in the summer of either 1985 or 1986 watching Flint Hill play someone. JT and Esh were in the rafters watching/scouting Dennis Scott and Sam Jefferson. Scott was shooting lights out and I barely remember Jefferson was even there. When I heard we signed Jefferson and not Scott I was incredulous.

MCI this was the best post yet.  I agree with everything you're saying and thank you for also putting out the history. 

The bottom line is because Coach Thompson turned away so many great players and had us settle for sub par players in a lot of instances, we ended up not building a dynasty.  We also squandered some of the best kids from the north to schools in the south, particularly the ACC. 

To me, this is the reason why Duke is so coveted by the northern kids.  Because northern kids have been picking Duke now for some 30 years now because of Coach Thompson ignoring their talent.  To me, this also hurt the Big East recruiting overall.  If we gotten the Hills, Andersons, Tisdales, etc, imagine other schools in the Big East being able to get some of the same talent to compete against Georgetown.  The Big East could have and should have been even bigger than it was.

Carolina was strong but even they were not as strong as Georgetown until coach Thompson started letting New Yorkers and Connecticut kids slip by.  Also, we would have had a strong hold on the kids from the South too had Coach Thompson kept up the Hoya mystique.  But I guess coach couldn't visualize say like Coach K could in terms of having a dynasty program.  I remember when Duke was subpar with getting good talent.  Now every kid wants to go to Duke and Coach K gets nothing but 5 star players.

You know who else I believe wanted to go to Georgetown?  Sherman Douglas.  I think I remembered hearing he wanted to go to Georgetown.  Also remember the guard we had Charles Smith?  Well Charles Smith had a younger brother who people use to say he was AI before AI. This guy wasn't as athletic as AI but he was a scorer and could score in bunches.  The kid's name was Curt Smith.  This guy was a McDonalds All American and from my understanding he was an MVP for one of the McDonald's all American game.  He played against some future NBAers and future hall of famers and he dominated them and got the MVP if I am not mistaken.  He wanted to go to Georgetown but nope, he didn't get in either.  

It is so sad to see where we are today compared to where we could have been.  We should have been the blue blood school kids look to go to instead of Duke.

[Bigs"R"Us]

Sept 5, 2020 9:20:42 GMT -5 DallasHoya said:

Sept 5, 2020 7:09:29 GMT -5 MCIGuy said:

LOL. Why do you think I made the Green Eggs & Ham reference about G. Hill and mentioned how I could not watch Hill's his tribute on TNT? May have missed my line about how he should have been a Hoya.

Grant Hill indeed was a huge fan of Georgetown. He went to every home game with his dad while growing up. He idolized former Hoya Michael Jackson who graduated eight years earlier from the same high school Grant went to (South Lakes). His number he wore in high school was 32 in tribute to Jackson who wore the same number. When he went to Duke he couldn't wear 32 because Christian Laettner was wearing that number. So Grant went with 33 which was Ewing's number. When he was introduced to the Hall of Fame Grant, who kept wearing 33 throughout his pro career, asked Ewing to be one of the three Hall of Famers to be on stage for that introduction. His mom wanted him to go to Georgetown. The TNT tribute even added some details about how deep his devotion to the Hoyas that I wasn't even aware of. By all measures Hill should have picked Georgwtown.

Why it didn't happen is attributed to one fateful meeting. Thompson and his academic advisor Mary Fenlon made the trip to the Hill's home for the official visit. And during that meeting, in front of his parents, Fenlon pulled out some book or text and asked Grant to read from it in order to gauge his reading level. This was typical of how JT did things, this was why Fenlon often accompanied him on recruiting visits; not just to talk about the educational opportunities at Georgetown but to also administer these type of tests. One would think SAT and other measurements would be good enough but Thompson and or Fenlon were a little quirky on this front. That was the way they did things and maybe for most of the players and families of players this was acceptable. As unorthodox as that approach was it may have been effective in determining the education level of previous recruits from rougher backgrounds. To the Hills though, from all reports, it was insulting. And I don't blame them. Grant was a very good student from a very good high school. Both of his parents were not only college educated but went to elite universities and were high profile professionals. There is something about being able to read a room, a situation and I suppose JT and Fenlon failed when it came to this meeting. That pretty much ended Georgetown's chances.

When I first learned of the story I was surprised and appalled. I wondered just how deeply JT and Fenlon offended the Hills and then made up a worst case scenario in which the book Grant was given to read from was Green Eggs & Ham. Just a joke to hide my ever-lasting pain. There have been a couple on the board over the years who have questioned or disputed the alidity of the story about this meeting but there have been credible sources who back this version of what went down including Grant Hill himself who confirmed it in a Sunday Parade interview. But as the years have gone by he doesn't acknowledge it anymore. Clearly he put it behind him and doesn't hold onto any bitterness. Why would he? Things worked out great for him at Duke and beyond.

Fascinating enough ESPN U replayed the Duke at Georgetown game in December 1990 for the Big East-ACC Challenge a few days ago. It was very early in Hill’s Duke career and there he was back in the arena he had often visited to watch his favorite team which was now the team he was playing against. What I had forgotten was that game was the second of a double header . The first, in the same arena, matched St. John’s against Georgia Tech. Georgia Tech happened to have a second year super star in Kenny Anderson who was also seen by many as a Georgetown lock during his high school days. Although Anderson grew up in NYC, he was a Hoya fanatic. He even wore the Georgetown jacket between classes in high school. Georgetown was his dream school. Why didn’t end up at GU? Well, it wasn’t as if the Hoyas were covered as extensively as the Redskins so details were hard to come by but enough reports, from media both in Washington and New York, indicated that John Thompson did not show enough love.

Despite some very big fish he reeled in, Thompson’s recruiting style wasn’t atypical. Craig Esherick once pointed out that it was often normal for JT to wait for the recruits to show interest in Georgetown before he started showing interest in them. Considering so many stories I have heard by former great college players who stated they were disappointed Georgetown never recruited them this sounds about right. But by all accounts Kenny did let it be known he was interested in Georgetown. Thompson never went to New York for an official visit with him though. If I’m not mistaken he didn’t even give Kenny a phone call.

The question has always been why this was the case. There was talk that Thompson was too busy as the coach for Team USA in the upcoming Olympics. But what kind of excuse is that? He still had responsibilities for the Georgetown program. At the very least he could have given a phone call. Then there was the line JT said in response to such questions in which he claimed he doesn’t need “hamburger All-Americans” to bring up the ball….which was his way of saying he doesn’t need Five Star/McDonald All American level guards for his teams. That attitude has been one that characterized Thompson for much of his career. There are those who would insist that Thompson only really went all-out in recruiting when the targets were big men. But more than anything it was kinda known that Thompson didn’t like recruiting at all. Most coaches didn’t but Thompson REALLY hated it. This explained some of the discrepancy of talent even among the top nine or ten guys on his team. Thompson’s efforts in recruiting really went south after winning a championship. Yes, he will still bring in some elite talent after that but a few have suggested that he proved himself with the title in 1984 and no longer felt the need to prove himself further by working hard on the recruiting trail. Gary Williams of Maryland went through a similar phase after winning his single title.

During Alonzo Mourning’s sophomore season when he was teamed with Mutombo, Mark Tillmon and Dwayne Bryant in the starting lineup, Thomas Boswell wrote a column that the one thing holding the Hoyas back was not having the type of multi-purpose, 6-6 small forward that he stated every other team seemed to have. The Michael Tate thing didn’t work out. At times Thompson started Sam Jefferson at the three. Jefferson had no skills to play that spot; he was a big man although a thin one. Grant Hill could have definitely filled that need and then some the following season. He could have in theory been on a team alongside side the M&M Boys as well as Kenny Anderson. The person playing the two-spot could have been me and the Hoyas could have won a title with such a lineup. Instead in that season the Hoyas had Joey Brown and Robert Churchwell. No offense to those guys; they played hard and gave all they had for four years each. But they weren’t near the level of Anderson and Hill.

One could argue that the pendulum swung back towards the ACC for good when Duke and Laettner defeated Georgetown and Mourning in the 1989 Regional Finals at the Meadowlands. But in my opinion even more decisive was the Big East losing out on guys like Kenny and Grant, both of whom could have been, should have been, Hoyas. Undoubtedly JT built a great legacy, but his mistakes on the recruiting trail (or not even walking down the trail) possibly limited even much larger on-court success. If he had retained a hunger after winning a championship in the way that Coach K has or Jim Calhoun did, he could have OWNED college basketball considering his status in the African American community. I’m thinking about four titles or more.

Best and most accurate post ever made on Georgetown’s recruiting misses in the 80s and early 90s. Owning college basketball is absolutely correct.

A couple more tidbits.

Waymon Tisdale’s time at OU overlapped with Ewing’s at GU - 1982-1985. Saw an interview with Tisdale in the late 80s saying he really wanted to get an GU ofer, but I think Ewing plus a healthy Ralph Dalton is why Tisdale wasn’t recruited. (We forget how good Dalton could have been without his injury, which was devastating.) OU played Tisdale at center when he had PF size. Imagine a frontline combo of Tisdale and Ewing.

I remember being McDonough Gym in the summer of either 1985 or 1986 watching Flint Hill play someone. JT and Esh were in the rafters watching/scouting Dennis Scott and Sam Jefferson. Scott was shooting lights out and I barely remember Jefferson was even there. When I heard we signed Jefferson and not Scott I was incredulous.

Flint Hill may have played multiple games in McDonough during that period. I went to the game against Mackin in 1986. Scott was the clear superstar with unbelievable range. Also, deceivingly athletic. Ronnie was also on that FH squad.

[Deleted]

BigRUs, DallasHoya, MCI, all of you guys gave great contribution to this feed. I appreciate your guys information. It is important that we remember the history both good and bad.

[the_way]

Given Coach's track record, his reputation, his coaching ability, his recruiting ability, his intelligence, maybe there was a reason why certain players did not receive offers. And that reason may not be all on Coach. Two sides to everything and then there is the truth.


At this point, it is irrelevant. It has always been irrelevant.

Why? We had too many great players that played at Georgetown. From the NBA Hall of Famers to the role players. Too many great memories.

Thinking what if about players who could have played for G-town places the emphasis strictly on basketball. The deflated basketball was in Coach's office for a reason.

That was his focus. His mindset. It makes you appreciate Coach Thompson and his legacy more than ever.

[rockhoya]

Sept 5, 2020 9:20:42 GMT -5 DallasHoya said:

Sept 5, 2020 7:09:29 GMT -5 MCIGuy said:

LOL. Why do you think I made the Green Eggs & Ham reference about G. Hill and mentioned how I could not watch Hill's his tribute on TNT? May have missed my line about how he should have been a Hoya.

Grant Hill indeed was a huge fan of Georgetown. He went to every home game with his dad while growing up. He idolized former Hoya Michael Jackson who graduated eight years earlier from the same high school Grant went to (South Lakes). His number he wore in high school was 32 in tribute to Jackson who wore the same number. When he went to Duke he couldn't wear 32 because Christian Laettner was wearing that number. So Grant went with 33 which was Ewing's number. When he was introduced to the Hall of Fame Grant, who kept wearing 33 throughout his pro career, asked Ewing to be one of the three Hall of Famers to be on stage for that introduction. His mom wanted him to go to Georgetown. The TNT tribute even added some details about how deep his devotion to the Hoyas that I wasn't even aware of. By all measures Hill should have picked Georgwtown.

Why it didn't happen is attributed to one fateful meeting. Thompson and his academic advisor Mary Fenlon made the trip to the Hill's home for the official visit. And during that meeting, in front of his parents, Fenlon pulled out some book or text and asked Grant to read from it in order to gauge his reading level. This was typical of how JT did things, this was why Fenlon often accompanied him on recruiting visits; not just to talk about the educational opportunities at Georgetown but to also administer these type of tests. One would think SAT and other measurements would be good enough but Thompson and or Fenlon were a little quirky on this front. That was the way they did things and maybe for most of the players and families of players this was acceptable. As unorthodox as that approach was it may have been effective in determining the education level of previous recruits from rougher backgrounds. To the Hills though, from all reports, it was insulting. And I don't blame them. Grant was a very good student from a very good high school. Both of his parents were not only college educated but went to elite universities and were high profile professionals. There is something about being able to read a room, a situation and I suppose JT and Fenlon failed when it came to this meeting. That pretty much ended Georgetown's chances.

When I first learned of the story I was surprised and appalled. I wondered just how deeply JT and Fenlon offended the Hills and then made up a worst case scenario in which the book Grant was given to read from was Green Eggs & Ham. Just a joke to hide my ever-lasting pain. There have been a couple on the board over the years who have questioned or disputed the alidity of the story about this meeting but there have been credible sources who back this version of what went down including Grant Hill himself who confirmed it in a Sunday Parade interview. But as the years have gone by he doesn't acknowledge it anymore. Clearly he put it behind him and doesn't hold onto any bitterness. Why would he? Things worked out great for him at Duke and beyond.

Fascinating enough ESPN U replayed the Duke at Georgetown game in December 1990 for the Big East-ACC Challenge a few days ago. It was very early in Hill’s Duke career and there he was back in the arena he had often visited to watch his favorite team which was now the team he was playing against. What I had forgotten was that game was the second of a double header . The first, in the same arena, matched St. John’s against Georgia Tech. Georgia Tech happened to have a second year super star in Kenny Anderson who was also seen by many as a Georgetown lock during his high school days. Although Anderson grew up in NYC, he was a Hoya fanatic. He even wore the Georgetown jacket between classes in high school. Georgetown was his dream school. Why didn’t end up at GU? Well, it wasn’t as if the Hoyas were covered as extensively as the Redskins so details were hard to come by but enough reports, from media both in Washington and New York, indicated that John Thompson did not show enough love.

Despite some very big fish he reeled in, Thompson’s recruiting style wasn’t atypical. Craig Esherick once pointed out that it was often normal for JT to wait for the recruits to show interest in Georgetown before he started showing interest in them. Considering so many stories I have heard by former great college players who stated they were disappointed Georgetown never recruited them this sounds about right. But by all accounts Kenny did let it be known he was interested in Georgetown. Thompson never went to New York for an official visit with him though. If I’m not mistaken he didn’t even give Kenny a phone call.

The question has always been why this was the case. There was talk that Thompson was too busy as the coach for Team USA in the upcoming Olympics. But what kind of excuse is that? He still had responsibilities for the Georgetown program. At the very least he could have given a phone call. Then there was the line JT said in response to such questions in which he claimed he doesn’t need “hamburger All-Americans” to bring up the ball….which was his way of saying he doesn’t need Five Star/McDonald All American level guards for his teams. That attitude has been one that characterized Thompson for much of his career. There are those who would insist that Thompson only really went all-out in recruiting when the targets were big men. But more than anything it was kinda known that Thompson didn’t like recruiting at all. Most coaches didn’t but Thompson REALLY hated it. This explained some of the discrepancy of talent even among the top nine or ten guys on his team. Thompson’s efforts in recruiting really went south after winning a championship. Yes, he will still bring in some elite talent after that but a few have suggested that he proved himself with the title in 1984 and no longer felt the need to prove himself further by working hard on the recruiting trail. Gary Williams of Maryland went through a similar phase after winning his single title.

During Alonzo Mourning’s sophomore season when he was teamed with Mutombo, Mark Tillmon and Dwayne Bryant in the starting lineup, Thomas Boswell wrote a column that the one thing holding the Hoyas back was not having the type of multi-purpose, 6-6 small forward that he stated every other team seemed to have. The Michael Tate thing didn’t work out. At times Thompson started Sam Jefferson at the three. Jefferson had no skills to play that spot; he was a big man although a thin one. Grant Hill could have definitely filled that need and then some the following season. He could have in theory been on a team alongside side the M&M Boys as well as Kenny Anderson. The person playing the two-spot could have been me and the Hoyas could have won a title with such a lineup. Instead in that season the Hoyas had Joey Brown and Robert Churchwell. No offense to those guys; they played hard and gave all they had for four years each. But they weren’t near the level of Anderson and Hill.

One could argue that the pendulum swung back towards the ACC for good when Duke and Laettner defeated Georgetown and Mourning in the 1989 Regional Finals at the Meadowlands. But in my opinion even more decisive was the Big East losing out on guys like Kenny and Grant, both of whom could have been, should have been, Hoyas. Undoubtedly JT built a great legacy, but his mistakes on the recruiting trail (or not even walking down the trail) possibly limited even much larger on-court success. If he had retained a hunger after winning a championship in the way that Coach K has or Jim Calhoun did, he could have OWNED college basketball considering his status in the African American community. I’m thinking about four titles or more.

Best and most accurate post ever made on Georgetown’s recruiting misses in the 80s and early 90s. Owning college basketball is absolutely correct.

A couple more tidbits.

Waymon Tisdale’s time at OU overlapped with Ewing’s at GU - 1982-1985. Saw an interview with Tisdale in the late 80s saying he really wanted to get an GU ofer, but I think Ewing plus a healthy Ralph Dalton is why Tisdale wasn’t recruited. (We forget how good Dalton could have been without his injury, which was devastating.) OU played Tisdale at center when he had PF size. Imagine a frontline combo of Tisdale and Ewing.

I remember being McDonough Gym in the summer of either 1985 or 1986 watching Flint Hill play someone. JT and Esh were in the rafters watching/scouting Dennis Scott and Sam Jefferson. Scott was shooting lights out and I barely remember Jefferson was even there. When I heard we signed Jefferson and not Scott I was incredulous.

Like another poster pointed out, not everyone was worthy of a GU offer. JT has his own method and formula and stuck to it until the latter years. Yeah plenty of players wanted offers, but hindsight is 20/20 and just because you want something doesn’t mean that you should get it or that you deserve it. I just don’t understand why we’re looking at these missed connections through the lens of misses, when a)it’s impossible to know at this juncture and b) they were just missed connections - it happens. If the Hill story is true, I’m assuming Hill wasn’t the only recruit JT did that with and for him to get offended, regardless of his perceived level of education, probably had to do with his ego. I don’t know why people are acting like it’s justified to be upset by something like that and that he deserved special treatment - oh wait just kidding I do because this is Hoyatalk the land of entitles fans, many of whom like to fan privilege and who are always looking for the “negatives”. Also a lot of Monday morning quarterbacks who are viewing things in hindsight. So what JT didn’t recruit every player? I mean newsflash he didn’t rock with just any type of person because he had standards. The kids he chose for his program, the reasons went beyond basketball...

How some of us still don’t understand sports are much larger than what gets done on the court/field/scoreboard and that JT’s whole life mission was to use sports to empower young men outside of the classroom is beyond me. Sports go beyond wins and losses....

[Deleted]

Sept 5, 2020 12:05:42 GMT -5 rockhoya said:

Sept 5, 2020 9:20:42 GMT -5 DallasHoya said:

Best and most accurate post ever made on Georgetown’s recruiting misses in the 80s and early 90s. Owning college basketball is absolutely correct.

A couple more tidbits.

Waymon Tisdale’s time at OU overlapped with Ewing’s at GU - 1982-1985. Saw an interview with Tisdale in the late 80s saying he really wanted to get an GU ofer, but I think Ewing plus a healthy Ralph Dalton is why Tisdale wasn’t recruited. (We forget how good Dalton could have been without his injury, which was devastating.) OU played Tisdale at center when he had PF size. Imagine a frontline combo of Tisdale and Ewing.

I remember being McDonough Gym in the summer of either 1985 or 1986 watching Flint Hill play someone. JT and Esh were in the rafters watching/scouting Dennis Scott and Sam Jefferson. Scott was shooting lights out and I barely remember Jefferson was even there. When I heard we signed Jefferson and not Scott I was incredulous.

Like another poster pointed out, not everyone was worthy of a GU offer. JT has his own method and formula and stuck to it until the latter years. Yeah plenty of players wanted offers, but hindsight is 20/20 and just because you want something doesn’t mean that you should get it or that you deserve it. I just don’t understand why we’re looking at these missed connections through the lens of misses, when a)it’s impossible to know at this juncture and b) they were just missed connections - it happens. If the Hill story is true, I’m assuming Hill wasn’t the only recruit JT did that with and for him to get offended, regardless of his perceived level of education, probably had to do with his ego. I don’t know why people are acting like it’s justified to be upset by something like that and that he deserved special treatment - oh wait just kidding I do because this is Hoyatalk the land of entitles fans, many of whom like to fan privilege and who are always looking for the “negatives”. Also a lot of Monday morning quarterbacks who are viewing things in hindsight. So what JT didn’t recruit every player? I mean newsflash he didn’t rock with just any type of person because he had standards. The kids he chose for his program, the reasons went beyond basketball...

Rock, I'm one of the ones who help began this part of the thread about Coach Thompson letting go of talent answering another persons question about his recruitment during the 80's. 

If you remember, I started with "I was aroud during that time" so no, it was not hindsight for me.  I lived through it.  I don't know how old or young you are but I lived through it.  I also said I was very frustrated.  Please go back and read it. 

I am almost certain those of us speaking on it, were around during those times so we all experienced it.  It was frustrating just like today the Hoyas don't land locals.  Except this is ten times worst because the locals were ten times more talented back then than they are today. 

I am not trying to be negative, I am simply being factual as we need to know both the good and bad.  I am hoping Patrick and any other future coaches can learn from this so we as fan won't be on future boards complaining about getting low level talent like we are doing today.   Furthermore, we should be a blue blood school from a recruiting standpoint and that's a fact!