blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Sept 3, 2020 12:06:41 GMT -5
A question for the Board. Listening to the many JT tributes from former college greats and NBA players one thing stuck out. So many of these players said they loved the Hoyas growing up and would love to have played for JT. Yet none of them did. I'm sure there were probably circumstances preventing their successful recruitment but it is very frustrating to hear guys like Grant Hill say how they worshiped Hoya basketball yet wound up elsewhere. Any idea why this happened? I was around during those days and I was so frustrated that we didn't land a lot of top stars in spite of the fact that these guys wanted to come to Georgetown. Some of these guys were so upset that they were not able to come to Georgetown. Let me throw out some names of the guys that were superstars in college who wanted to come to Georgetown that I know of: Grant Hill Waymon Tisdale Dennis Scott Kenny Anderson Stephon Marbury (I think but not certain) Damn near everybody at Dematha-especially Jerrod Mustaf These are the guys I know for sure. I'm pretty sure there were plenty of more that I don't know of and of some I've forgotten. The Dematha situation is very very interesting. Coach Thompson was a great man but one of his flaws, in my honest opinion, is that he was vindictive. Maybe that may be too harsh of a word "vindictive" but anyways, he held a grudge against Dematha High School and he refused to recruit Dematha kids. To me it hurt us so badly with Dematha that lasted years until JTIII came along and recruited A Freeman. Coach Thompson absolutely refused to recruit from Dematha because they didn't hire him to coach their team or something strange like that. Coach Thompson also refused to schedule to play Maryland University for years. To me that hurt us too. The reason being is because I think it isolated us for years high school kids in the area. I understand you can only get so many kids on the roster but compared to those college superstars I mentioned, the players we had could not even compare to those guys position for position. We all know about how great Grant Hill was. Waymon Tisdale was like one of the all time scoring leaders in college basketball from what I can remember. Kenny Anderson, oh my god was so good. Jerrod Mustaf was a beast. Georgetown with all it's glory, I can say has made a lot of mistakes over the years that has gotten us to where we are today with recruiting the best players in my opinion. You can add Steve Francis to this list. Pops literally said no because he was worn out by it all. |
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professorhoya
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Post by professorhoya on Sept 3, 2020 12:07:02 GMT -5
Just proves that Hill would have been too soft to last at Georgetown and out of place. Probably would have gone crying home just like another rich kid, Kendall Gill from Olympia Fields who was left in tears and couldn't handle the toughness of LJ, Mugsy and Zo with the Charlotte Hornets. |
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Sept 3, 2020 12:12:26 GMT -5
Kenny Anderson was disappointed that Hoyas didn't show enough interest according to his coach but Anderson also didn't like the substitution pattern. ''That shuffling in and out, in and out - you make a good play one minute then you're out,'' he said. ''I like to be in the game. I need to have a coach around me that has confidence in me and who's going to let me run the team.'' According to Jack Curran, the Molloy coach, Anderson was also disappointed that the Hoya staff didn't show greater interest. www.nytimes.com/1988/11/28/sports/the-recruiting-of-kenny-anderson-star-stands-firm-with-his-decision.html |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2020 12:41:02 GMT -5
To be fair that kid is underprivileged and poor. Working construction in the morning and attending college in the afternoon. Self starter for sure. You know what, I didn't think about that. In that case, I can see why they gave him an opportunity. My fault on Kelly. He definitely wasn't a good example to use to make my argument. |
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hoyadimes
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Post by hoyadimes on Sept 3, 2020 12:57:57 GMT -5
Make sure we don't forget about Shaq wanting to be a Hoya as Patrick Ewing was one of his idols.
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hoya95
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Post by hoya95 on Sept 3, 2020 13:01:44 GMT -5
Are you suggesting Grant Hill was saying things that he didn't believe the other night? Seriously? |
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Sept 3, 2020 13:21:51 GMT -5
Kenny Anderson was disappointed that Hoyas didn't show enough interest according to his coach but Anderson also didn't like the substitution pattern. ''That shuffling in and out, in and out - you make a good play one minute then you're out,'' he said. ''I like to be in the game. I need to have a coach around me that has confidence in me and who's going to let me run the team.'' According to Jack Curran, the Molloy coach, Anderson was also disappointed that the Hoya staff didn't show greater interest. www.nytimes.com/1988/11/28/sports/the-recruiting-of-kenny-anderson-star-stands-firm-with-his-decision.htmlStory I always heard was Kenny was disappointed JT didn't recruit him. As for rotating players in and out? That doesn't ring true when I think of Derrick Jackson, Johnny Duren, Sleepy, Michael Jackson, David Wingate... just to mentione a few guards who preceded Kenny. Whatever the case, a HUGE miss not to close Anderson, and all those other names mentioned. Was it arrogance? Fatigue from the recruiting grind? Loss of motivation, determination and drive after the NCAAA championship? JT accomplished SOOOO much! But the way he had it going on, he left a lot on table too. |
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professorhoya
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Post by professorhoya on Sept 3, 2020 13:45:45 GMT -5
Kenny Anderson was disappointed that Hoyas didn't show enough interest according to his coach but Anderson also didn't like the substitution pattern. ''That shuffling in and out, in and out - you make a good play one minute then you're out,'' he said. ''I like to be in the game. I need to have a coach around me that has confidence in me and who's going to let me run the team.'' According to Jack Curran, the Molloy coach, Anderson was also disappointed that the Hoya staff didn't show greater interest. www.nytimes.com/1988/11/28/sports/the-recruiting-of-kenny-anderson-star-stands-firm-with-his-decision.htmlStory I always heard was Kenny was disappointed JT didn't recruit him. As for rotating players in and out? That doesn't ring true when I think of Derrick Jackson, Johnny Duren, Sleepy, Michael Jackson, David Wingate... just to mentione a few guards who preceded Kenny. Whatever the case, a HUGE miss not to close Anderson, and all those other names mentioned. Was it arrogance? Fatigue from the recruiting grind? Loss of motivation, determination and drive after the NCAAA championship? JT accomplished SOOOO much! But the way he had it going on, he left a lot on table too. He only stayed two years at Tech. Maybe Pops could see that Kenny wasn't going to be a 4 year player. Although I guess if Kenny had gone to Georgetown we get Dennis Scott in a package deal (But Scott can't play defense so once again that's a bad fit). |
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hoya73
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Post by hoya73 on Sept 3, 2020 13:50:33 GMT -5
A question for the Board. Listening to the many JT tributes from former college greats and NBA players one thing stuck out. So many of these players said they loved the Hoyas growing up and would love to have played for JT. Yet none of them did. I'm sure there were probably circumstances preventing their successful recruitment but it is very frustrating to hear guys like Grant Hill say how they worshiped Hoya basketball yet wound up elsewhere. Any idea why this happened? I was around during those days and I was so frustrated that we didn't land a lot of top stars in spite of the fact that these guys wanted to come to Georgetown. Some of these guys were so upset that they were not able to come to Georgetown. Let me throw out some names of the guys that were superstars in college who wanted to come to Georgetown that I know of: Grant Hill Waymon Tisdale Dennis Scott Kenny Anderson Stephon Marbury (I think but not certain) Damn near everybody at Dematha-especially Jerrod Mustaf These are the guys I know for sure. I'm pretty sure there were plenty of more that I don't know of and of some I've forgotten. The Dematha situation is very very interesting. Coach Thompson was a great man but one of his flaws, in my honest opinion, is that he was vindictive. Maybe that may be too harsh of a word "vindictive" but anyways, he held a grudge against Dematha High School and he refused to recruit Dematha kids. To me it hurt us so badly with Dematha that lasted years until JTIII came along and recruited A Freeman. Coach Thompson absolutely refused to recruit from Dematha because they didn't hire him to coach their team or something strange like that. Coach Thompson also refused to schedule to play Maryland University for years. To me that hurt us too. The reason being is because I think it isolated us for years high school kids in the area. I understand you can only get so many kids on the roster but compared to those college superstars I mentioned, the players we had could not even compare to those guys position for position. We all know about how great Grant Hill was. Waymon Tisdale was like one of the all time scoring leaders in college basketball from what I can remember. Kenny Anderson, oh my god was so good. Jerrod Mustaf was a beast. Georgetown with all it's glory, I can say has made a lot of mistakes over the years that has gotten us to where we are today with recruiting the best players in my opinion. Specifically quoting: Coach Thompson absolutely refused to recruit from Dematha because they didn't hire him to coach their team or something strange like that" Coach Thompson had coached up St. Anthony's to become the top HS team in the area. Coach Wooten wouldn't schedule St.. Anthony's under any circumstances, not wanting to lose to the new best HS coach in the area. That's the origin of the Thompson-Wooten feud, which I agree went on to long. De Matha wasn't blameless, though the kids who went there had nothing to do with the feud, just the coach. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2020 13:55:03 GMT -5
I was around during those days and I was so frustrated that we didn't land a lot of top stars in spite of the fact that these guys wanted to come to Georgetown. Some of these guys were so upset that they were not able to come to Georgetown. Let me throw out some names of the guys that were superstars in college who wanted to come to Georgetown that I know of: Grant Hill Waymon Tisdale Dennis Scott Kenny Anderson Stephon Marbury (I think but not certain) Damn near everybody at Dematha-especially Jerrod Mustaf These are the guys I know for sure. I'm pretty sure there were plenty of more that I don't know of and of some I've forgotten. The Dematha situation is very very interesting. Coach Thompson was a great man but one of his flaws, in my honest opinion, is that he was vindictive. Maybe that may be too harsh of a word "vindictive" but anyways, he held a grudge against Dematha High School and he refused to recruit Dematha kids. To me it hurt us so badly with Dematha that lasted years until JTIII came along and recruited A Freeman. Coach Thompson absolutely refused to recruit from Dematha because they didn't hire him to coach their team or something strange like that. Coach Thompson also refused to schedule to play Maryland University for years. To me that hurt us too. The reason being is because I think it isolated us for years high school kids in the area. I understand you can only get so many kids on the roster but compared to those college superstars I mentioned, the players we had could not even compare to those guys position for position. We all know about how great Grant Hill was. Waymon Tisdale was like one of the all time scoring leaders in college basketball from what I can remember. Kenny Anderson, oh my god was so good. Jerrod Mustaf was a beast. Georgetown with all it's glory, I can say has made a lot of mistakes over the years that has gotten us to where we are today with recruiting the best players in my opinion. Specifically quoting: Coach Thompson absolutely refused to recruit from Dematha because they didn't hire him to coach their team or something strange like that" Coach Thompson had coached up St. Anthony's to become the top HS team in the area. Coach Wooten wouldn't schedule St.. Anthony's under any circumstances, not wanting to lose to the new best HS coach in the area. That's the origin of the Thompson-Wooten feud, which I agree went on to long. De Matha wasn't blameless, though the kids who went there had nothing to do with the feud, just the coach. Thanks for clearing it up. I wished he would have recruited from Dematha but it's history now. |
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TC
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Post by TC on Sept 3, 2020 14:16:24 GMT -5
Are you suggesting Grant Hill was saying things that he didn't believe the other night? Seriously? I'm saying I don't think Mary Fenlon went off the reservation. Whatever she did was the way that program was run. |
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Sept 3, 2020 14:27:39 GMT -5
Apologize if this link posted earlier. Leonard Shapiro of the WaPo who later wrote a bio " Big Man On Campus" on Thompson had this profile of him back in 1991. The sudden flash of fury, followed so quickly by this placid, good-humored dissertation, seemed so odd, and somewhat unnerving to anyone who saw it. Yet his friends will tell you that was typical of the John Thompson they have come to know. Many of those same people will also admit they don't really know him at all. They have an idea, a theory, an opinion, on what makes the man, what drives the man, but that's all. He's a very simple guy, says one friend. He's a very complex person, says another. Just when you think he's taking the money and running to the Denver Nuggets, he decides to stay at Georgetown. www.washingtonpost.com/archive/sports/1991/02/03/inside-the-man-what-makes-thompson-tick/954c2fe0-1f3c-49cb-a143-29d96cf837ee/ |
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Sept 3, 2020 15:00:50 GMT -5
Former Dematha Assistant Buddy Burkhead told me that Coach Wooten not only did not like losing to St. Anthony's, but also did not like the way the St. Anthony's players handled themselves. For instance, the St. Anthony's guys would pat the Dematha player on the posterior after they missed free throws. FWIW, I am NOT saying anything negative about anyone, including Big John and Coach Wooten. That is just the way things play out sometimes.
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Post by FromTheBeginning on Sept 3, 2020 15:06:11 GMT -5
I always heard that the problem with getting DeMatha kids was that Wotten was passed over for the GU job when John was hired.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2020 15:16:25 GMT -5
I always heard that the problem with getting DeMatha kids was that Wotten was passed over for the GU job when John was hired. Never heard that before. It was always something that was done to Big John that was the infraction and led to the bitterness between the two institutions/individuals. |
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Sept 3, 2020 15:22:31 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2020 15:30:05 GMT -5
Great article and it puts everything in proper perspective! My mind is clear about the issue now. Thanks for that. |
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SirSaxa
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Post by SirSaxa on Sept 3, 2020 15:32:20 GMT -5
SS, while I can't vouch for the summer league prank, I clearly remember something about Wooten dissing JT and his St. Anthony's team. Whatever transpired -- and it may well have culminated in that prank game - that feud lasted for decades. Wooten would not allow any of his kids to consider GU. Tough loss for our Hoyas... but JT managed anyway.
I've also read all kinds of great things about Wooten.. so who the heck knows why those two local hoops heroes did the old Hatfield v McCoy trick. I often wondered over the year why Red Auerbach didn't step in to settle it. Maybe he wanted to steer as far from that one as possible?
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SSHoya
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Post by SSHoya on Sept 3, 2020 15:34:49 GMT -5
Former Dematha Assistant Buddy Burkhead told me that Coach Wooten not only did not like losing to St. Anthony's, but also did not like the way the St. Anthony's players handled themselves. [EDIT: Did St. Anthony and DeMatha play pre-Thompson as coach?]. For instance, the St. Anthony's guys would pat the Dematha player on the posterior after they missed free throws. FWIW, I am NOT saying anything negative about anyone, including Big John and Coach Wooten. That is just the way things play out sometimes. Don't know that this is true. What timeframe? During Thompson's coaching tenure, St. Anthony's and DeMatha never really played except for the "prank" game detailed in the Deadspin article. Also, in those days I'd bet patting an opposing player after a missed FT would draw an automatic technical. I'm just old enough to remember when it was unsportsmanlike to yell during an OPPONENT'S free throws. Someone tell me I'm hallucinating but I recall that to be the case in high school basketball. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 3, 2020 15:39:22 GMT -5
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