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Post by Lethal_Interjection on Aug 21, 2020 19:40:17 GMT -5
So, what is the fix on defense? Should we just play zone and call it a day like Boeheim? Pack-line defense like UVA and others? Tough man-to-man like Nova? Coach Ewing pretty much run a man defense the majority of the time, w/a mixture of pressing. I believe the guys on the floor have to work on communicating with one another more effectively. Also, the guys he's recruited will probably help out even more so now due to the added length on the roster too.
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Post by cindad on Aug 22, 2020 1:39:25 GMT -5
I think it went wrong sometime in 2013. The Hoyas always had a 'type'. That blue-chipper that everyone wanted. "The ball-player type". Not the most highly ranked, but top-end prospects who coaches and talent evaluators just love. Often because maybe they are a late riser, or maybe its a player thats raw with tons of tools.
GU supplemented with good solid players that grew to contribute there 2-3 years. Then it was like pipeline dried up, and no one wanted to go to Georgetown. In the MW guys love going to Cincy because B10 doesn't take JUCOs, and shys away from 5th year Prep School types. Basically it was like DMV, Philly, South Jersey athletes stop considering GU overnight. Then Ewing comes in and he is all over the country recruiting guys. Like Ewing should be parked in Jayden Epp's driveway during corona-virus quarantine and be his quarantine buddy, same with Batchelor, and Mintz. If a player is less than a 4 hour drive from your campus they have to be in their Top 5, esp guys in the Top-100 to Top-50. Guys inside Top-30 thats cut-throat recruiting, and you can sell those players you are buying their services for 1-2 years they will grace the sidelines.
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by EtomicB on Aug 22, 2020 10:36:18 GMT -5
So, what is the fix on defense? Should we just play zone and call it a day like Boeheim? Pack-line defense like UVA and others? Tough man-to-man like Nova? Coach Ewing pretty much run a man defense the majority of the time, w/a mixture of pressing. I believe the guys on the floor have to work on communicating with one another more effectively. Also, the guys he's recruited will probably help out even more so now due to the added length on the roster too. This is where the coaching staff has to step up, the players won't get better at this on their own... PE wants his players to guard their man as opposed to guarding the ball or specific spots on the floor as the better defensive teams do. The better defensive teams guard as a unit, not individually...
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EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by EtomicB on Aug 22, 2020 10:57:50 GMT -5
Figured this conversation was better suited for this thread... That’s 20/20 hindsight. Reggie was ranked #75 in his class. I’m not blaming JT3 for this miss. He needed a wing shooter in that class. I remember thinking Reggie was just what the doctor ordered. I’m not knocking the guy he always seemed like a good teammate and a good kid plus he stayed and got his degree but in high school you could she his shot mechanics were super slow I don't agree, his mechanics were fine. I think JT3 spent too much time worrying about who he could guard when he should have been pumping him up to be Gtown's Ethan Wragge or Kris Jenkins, neither of those guys could guard a mannequin but they were net positive players for their teams...
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Aug 22, 2020 11:54:01 GMT -5
Figured this conversation was better suited for this thread... I’m not knocking the guy he always seemed like a good teammate and a good kid plus he stayed and got his degree but in high school you could she his shot mechanics were super slow I don't agree, his mechanics were fine. I think JT3 spent too much time worrying about who he could guard when he should have been pumping him up to be Gtown's Ethan Wragge or Kris Jenkins, neither of those guys could guard a mannequin but they were net positive players for their teams... It always seemed to be a confidence issue. He could stroke it. I bet he was lights out in practice. In the games though it was only .326
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Hoyas4Ever
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A Wise Man Once Told Me Don't Argue With Fools....
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Aug 22, 2020 12:07:04 GMT -5
Figured this conversation was better suited for this thread... I’m not knocking the guy he always seemed like a good teammate and a good kid plus he stayed and got his degree but in high school you could she his shot mechanics were super slow I don't agree, his mechanics were fine. I think JT3 spent too much time worrying about who he could guard when he should have been pumping him up to be Gtown's Ethan Wragge or Kris Jenkins, neither of those guys could guard a mannequin but they were net positive players for their teams... I'll chime in here to agree with Etomic! I was a JT3 supporter but his inability to adjust was his down fall. He didn't adjust to referee rules enforcement changes. He also didn't adjust or did a bad job of evaluating prospects. He mis-evaluated several prospects abilities to fit within his offensive system and also the trend of where the game was going. Reggie Cameron was always a PF at the college level (you are who you can guard) but JT3 kept trying to make him a SF/Wing. His inability to play and defend the SF position destroyed his confidence. You could almost see/feel Reggie Cameron's confidence rise or plummet with his first shot in every game. If he nailed it He seemed to play better. If he missed,he seemed to know the hook was coming. JT3 did the same exact thing with Copeland his sophomore year. Another example is Tre Campbell. He was a Jahvon Blair type of SG, NOT A PG! JT3 played Tre off the ball his freshmen year and he had his best college season. Campbell fell apart when he was pushed into a position (PG) that didn't match his skill set and mental makeup. Obviously recruiting misses forced him into playing Tre Campbell at the PG but those recruiting misses occurred because JT3 refused to adjust his style to a more visually appealing, player preferred pro style. JT3 waited until the very end to make adjustments but by that point it was to late. Listening to Dawg Talk podcast only emphasizes the dislike of the playing style by players in the program. Funny side note to the end of JT3's tenure is that Georgetown was a finalist for this years NPOY Obbi Toppin. It came down to Georgetown and Dayton. JT3 was released and Toppin ended up at Dayton. Who knows if JT3 would have been able to get Toppin in at Georgetown considering all the academic issues he had that even forced him to Prep school and lose his freshman year of eligibility. Even getting Toppin wouldn't have saved JT3's tenure.
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Post by trillesthoya on Aug 22, 2020 12:07:06 GMT -5
Although Im sure his shot didn’t fall as much as he hoped it would I always really appreciated Reggie’s presence on this team. Most other guys would’ve transferred when minutes became tight but he stuck through it and I really valued his contributions to this team his senior season. With a true shooting specialist on the staff I bet he could’ve been considerably improved since it always seemed like there was some minor issues on mechanics that needed to be fixed.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2020 14:12:08 GMT -5
Figured this conversation was better suited for this thread... I don't agree, his mechanics were fine. I think JT3 spent too much time worrying about who he could guard when he should have been pumping him up to be Gtown's Ethan Wragge or Kris Jenkins, neither of those guys could guard a mannequin but they were net positive players for their teams... I'll chime in here to agree with Etomic! I was a JT3 supporter but his inability to adjust was his down fall. He didn't adjust to referee rules enforcement changes. He also didn't adjust or did a bad job of evaluating prospects. He mis-evaluated several prospects abilities to fit within his offensive system and also the trend of where the game was going. Reggie Cameron was always a PF at the college level (you are who you can guard) but kept trying to make him a SF/Wing. He did the same with Copeland. Tre Campbell was a Jahvon Blair type of SG, NOT A PG! JT3 played Tre at the SG his freshmen year and he had his best college season. Campbell fell apart when he was pushed into a position (PG) that didn't match his skill set and mental makeup. Obviously recruiting misses forced him into playing Campbell at the PG but those recruiting misses occurred because he refused to adjust his style to a more visually appealing player preferred pro style. He waited until the very end to make any adjustments but by that point it was to late. Listening to Dawg Talk podcast only emphasizes the dislike of the playing style by players in the program. Funny side note to the end of JT3's tenure is that Georgetown was a finalist for this years NPOY Obbi Toppin. It came down to Georgetown and Dayton. JT3 was released and Toppin ended up at Dayton. Who knows if JT3 world have been able to get Toppin in at Georgetown considering all the academic issues he had that even forced him to Prep school and lose his freshman year of eligibility. Even getting Toppin wouldn't have saved JT3's tenure. This was Reggie's biggest problem - roster composition. JT3 ended up passing over him w/ Ike, Paul, Marcus (all college 4s who sat on the perimeter) and a couple of other 4s & 3s in Kaleb, Akoy, and Rodney for a year. So he got a couple of minutes here and there, was labeled a "3pt specialist", but didn't hit that many big shots. So he didn't get much more. He had a decent enough FR season. If he'd been allowed to progress with regular minutes -- and a forward rotation of him, Hopkins (as a Soph), Marcus, Kaleb, and so on -- I think he would've been a consistent producer, slow feet and all. He had good hands, was a smart kid, had enough size, and would've been a nice complement to the JR year version of Marcus (not the FR/SO chucker). Looking back -- it's crazy how different our team could've been if we could've traded Ike & Paul for even just one 4-year guard. Markel, Jason Clark... hell, even Vee Sanford.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Aug 22, 2020 16:45:27 GMT -5
Figured this conversation was better suited for this thread... I don't agree, his mechanics were fine. I think JT3 spent too much time worrying about who he could guard when he should have been pumping him up to be Gtown's Ethan Wragge or Kris Jenkins, neither of those guys could guard a mannequin but they were net positive players for their teams... It always seemed to be a confidence issue. He could stroke it. I bet he was lights out in practice. In the games though it was only .326 Hard to argue against this fact but it's not surprising to me that the year he played the most minutes & took his highest amount of shots, he also shot by far his best percentage...
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Aug 24, 2020 12:17:12 GMT -5
So, what is the fix on defense? Should we just play zone and call it a day like Boeheim? Pack-line defense like UVA and others? Tough man-to-man like Nova? This is a good question, and not one I really know the answer to. That said, it does seem like many good teams play a solid version of a pack the line type defense. The name makes it sound like a gimmick, but really, it's just using a lot of communication and effective movement and positioning to effectively defend. Chris Beard/Texas Tech have used it extremely effectively, as have others. I am truly curious to see if McClung defends better under Beard - I am almost certain he will, as Texas Tech's defensive system is top notch. On Reggie Cameron, I really think there is a lot of revisionist/hopeful thinking happening here. Cameron was a top 100 recruit, but I never saw anything from him indicating he could play at that level. In that sense, JT3 and his staff whiffed on Cameron. Cameron got plenty of chances. He played 13.3 minutes per game freshman year, very little sophomore year, then 17.4 minutes per game junior year, and then 8.1 senior year. He got plenty of opportunities, particularly as a freshman (which is notable, because JT3 never played freshman for the sake of playing them or giving them minutes). He just never did much with what he had. The stuff about him being played as an SF when he should have been a PF, to me, is really largely nonsense. If a guy can shoot threes, they can succeed at any position. Cameron just could not shoot well in games. And, when your major skill is that you are a three point specialist, and you can't shoot threes, there is simply no value left. And that's why he didn't play as much his senior season. Again, I am not trying to pile on the guy, but let's not sugar coat the situation. Cameron just was not a very good Big East basketball player. He was not a top 100 player, or even close to his ranking. In fact, in my opinion, JT3 probably played him too many minutes given his skill level.
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Post by professorhoya on Aug 24, 2020 12:37:06 GMT -5
So, what is the fix on defense? Should we just play zone and call it a day like Boeheim? Pack-line defense like UVA and others? Tough man-to-man like Nova? This is a good question, and not one I really know the answer to. That said, it does seem like many good teams play a solid version of a pack the line type defense. The name makes it sound like a gimmick, but really, it's just using a lot of communication and effective movement and positioning to effectively defend. Chris Beard/Texas Tech have used it extremely effectively, as have others. I am truly curious to see if McClung defends better under Beard - I am almost certain he will, as Texas Tech's defensive system is top notch. On Reggie Cameron, I really think there is a lot of revisionist/hopeful thinking happening here. Cameron was a top 100 recruit, but I never saw anything from him indicating he could play at that level. In that sense, JT3 and his staff whiffed on Cameron. Cameron got plenty of chances. He played 13.3 minutes per game freshman year, very little sophomore year, then 17.4 minutes per game junior year, and then 8.1 senior year. He got plenty of opportunities, particularly as a freshman (which is notable, because JT3 never played freshman for the sake of playing them or giving them minutes). He just never did much with what he had. The stuff about him being played as an SF when he should have been a PF, to me, is really largely nonsense. If a guy can shoot threes, they can succeed at any position. Cameron just could not shoot well in games. And, when your major skill is that you are a three point specialist, and you can't shoot threes, there is simply no value left. And that's why he didn't play as much his senior season. Again, I am not trying to pile on the guy, but let's not sugar coat the situation. Cameron just was not a very good Big East basketball player. He was not a top 100 player, or even close to his ranking. In fact, in my opinion, JT3 probably played him too many minutes given his skill level. Chris Beard's defense is actually not Pack Line. His is a No Middle Defense. medium.com/@flemingjack1995/pack-line-vs-no-middle-ncaa-championship-game-80cfa8a7038b"Chris Beard Versus Tony Bennett First off, it’s a little funny that two of the best defensive coaches in NCAA men’s basketball have slightly different approaches, yet both are tremendously successful! However, you will see some similarities. What about Texas Tech’s Chris Beard saying not allowing middle penetration? Isn’t that forcing baseline? Even though Coach Beard emphasizes no middle penetration, they do not force baseline. He doesn’t even force to the corner. He forces to the sideline. Big difference! He does not want dribble penetration at all. When the ball is on the wing or towards the corner, he teaches his players to defend with their toes to the sideline. Traditionally, when coaches teach players to force to the baseline, toes are often pointing to the baseline or the corner. The toes to the sideline approach won’t allow as many direct line drives as the other approaches. And if dribble penetration occurs, Coach Beard teaches his help defense to attack it early and aggressively. That’s because penetration kills! What about Tony Bennett not allowing baseline drives? Isn’t that forcing middle? Again. Coach Bennett doesn’t tell them to force middle. He tells them to stop dribble penetration and to eliminate baseline drives. Of course, this approach is connected to Coach Bennett’s other defensive principles of 3/4 post front from the high side, trapping posts from the middle, and defending ball screens. Due to these approaches, more of their help defense comes from the middle of the floor. So eliminating baseline drives makes sense. Both Bennett and Beard Emphasize Eliminating Dribble Penetration! Both coaches want to stop dribble penetration! But their other defensive strategies influenced them to emphasize eliminating a certain kind of dribble penetration. Their approaches and terminology ,while subtle, changes the body position and the mentality of the player. Rather than being angled, both have their players with their butt to the basket. They might move to the right or the left a few inches to eliminate a baseline drive or middle drive. But the approach is basically the same. " www.breakthroughbasketball.com/defense/beardbennettposition.html?filterreviews=newest
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