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Post by nattybumpo3152 on Aug 19, 2020 23:02:05 GMT -5
I hope no one takes this the wrong way. I think PE has assembled a great young group of players, but I think a little diversity might help recruiting efforts. Chet Holmgren might feel a trifle more comfortable if PE were recruiting a few other white and hispanic players. Just saying.
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kghoya
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by kghoya on Aug 20, 2020 1:36:34 GMT -5
Missing on Grant Hill
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SSHoya
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"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
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Post by SSHoya on Aug 20, 2020 5:31:10 GMT -5
Another early miss although probably not as impactful as Hill - Kenny Anderson. According to Jack Curran, the Molloy coach, Anderson was also disappointed that the Hoya staff didn't show greater interest. ''Georgetown was his main interest six months ago,'' Curran said. ''But then the Olympics got in the way of his recruiting and Kenny really wanted to be recruited. At least John had to make some overture to him and he didn't. His assistant called several times, but that's not the same.'' www.nytimes.com/1988/11/28/sports/the-recruiting-of-kenny-anderson-star-stands-firm-with-his-decision.html
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aristides
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Post by aristides on Aug 20, 2020 9:59:37 GMT -5
I hope no one takes this the wrong way. I think PE has assembled a great young group of players, but I think a little diversity might help recruiting efforts. Chet Holmgren might feel a trifle more comfortable if PE were recruiting a few other white and hispanic players. Just saying. I think white people are well represented at Georgetown in most other departments or programs. I don't think we need to introduce white people to the basketball team to promote diversity. If people with more pigment in their skin causes any basketball player discomfort, then what a great opportunity Georgetown can provide to explore that players biases and stereotypes and hopefully erase that discomfort.
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dense
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Post by dense on Aug 20, 2020 10:09:59 GMT -5
I hope no one takes this the wrong way. I think PE has assembled a great young group of players, but I think a little diversity might help recruiting efforts. Chet Holmgren might feel a trifle more comfortable if PE were recruiting a few other white and hispanic players. Just saying. Young white players dont care about this much since they have been going against mostly black players if they are at a high level.Also its not like the face of this program is that player who can no longer be mentioned the last 2 years.
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Aug 20, 2020 10:17:52 GMT -5
I don’t think diversity is the issue at all. We’ve had plenty of white players over the years in question....and one that just transferred this year. The composition of a team has to be 100% merit based and nothing else.
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HOYAPLAYA
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
IT'S TIME FOR A RUNNNNNNN!!!!!!
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Post by HOYAPLAYA on Aug 20, 2020 13:02:35 GMT -5
I hope no one takes this the wrong way. I think PE has assembled a great young group of players, but I think a little diversity might help recruiting efforts. Chet Holmgren might feel a trifle more comfortable if PE were recruiting a few other white and hispanic players. Just saying. Good grief!
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
The Illest
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Post by the_way on Aug 20, 2020 16:23:28 GMT -5
Malinowski, Omer, Muersan, player who can no longer be mentioned. That's a diverse group of white guys. Somewhere, I know Ken "H to the" Izzo is smiling. ... Back to reality: Jay Wright is a great coach. Just about any program not named Duke, UK, UNC, Kansas, etc. would love to him as a coach. The rules helped Jay, but he had success before the rule changes. When Jay hit a rut with his program, he was able to assess the problem and fix it. The primary difference between Jay and III is that Jay didn't have to make wholesale changes to his style of play. He mainly had to fix recruiting, focusing mainly only guys who didn't mind staying all 4 years. They really cracked down on that, and it paid dividends. When they had that losing season, Jay mentioned he had more guys interested in playing in the NBA than playing for Nova. We heard on Dawg Talk by Sims, etc. how they all wanted to play in the NBA. We saw this past year with Ewing and guys have having aspirations of playing in the NBA and transferring. Successful style of play and maintaining continuity. Jay only had to focus on the latter. III had to change who he was with the former, which also largely affects the latter. That is why Nova is where they are today and we are still in development. Ewing has to develop continuity within the program and come up with a style of play that works. Offensively we are fine, but defensive we need something different.
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Post by Lethal_Interjection on Aug 20, 2020 16:51:46 GMT -5
So therefore, the condensed version is that the last 2 seasons of JT3 being at the helm, he was unable to adapt to the new rules on both sides of the court. Also, he and his staff were unable to recognize what kind of player(s) would be needed to fit the mold in what the changes presented itself with.
Is this correct?
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Post by bicentennial on Aug 20, 2020 19:02:27 GMT -5
So therefore, the condensed version is that the last 2 seasons of JT3 being at the helm, he was unable to adapt to the new rules on both sides of the court. Also, he and his staff were unable to recognize what kind of player(s) would be needed to fit the mold in what the changes presented itself with. Is this correct? I don't think it was the last two years. I think the defense thing was a rule change between the 12-13 and 13-14 season and our defense that was top 10 from when JTIII arrived to 2013 never recovered(look at KenPom defensive ratings by year.) Then before the 2015-16 season the college basketball shot clock was reduced from 35 to 30 seconds. I believe this combination was a deadly 1-2 punch to the style of Basketball that JTIII taught his players. Back when Hoya Prospectus did all their analytics, they had an article that showed that the shot percentage for JTIII teams scoring in the first 7 seconds and last 7 seconds of the 35 second shot clock were both well over 50%. After the shot clock change, the percentage of scoring in the first 7 seconds no doubt remained high as it is for most teams that score on a breakaway. The overall efficiency of the offense was never very high after the changes because the team lost all the high percentage end of clock shots the ball movement had created. At least that's my take!
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the_way
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The Illest
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Post by the_way on Aug 20, 2020 19:54:03 GMT -5
Were any other programs severely affected by these changes? To the degree G-town experienced?
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hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on Aug 20, 2020 22:22:26 GMT -5
You have to admit that Ewing had the boys playing really well before Yurt and Mac went down.... Is this myth ever going to die? We were 2-5 in the first 7 games in conference play when they both were playing and Mac got hurt.
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hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on Aug 20, 2020 22:26:06 GMT -5
Nattybumpo strikes again and way too many people fall into his trap.
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LCPolo18
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Post by LCPolo18 on Aug 21, 2020 4:07:15 GMT -5
You have to admit that Ewing had the boys playing really well before Yurt and Mac went down.... Is this myth ever going to die? We were 2-5 in the first 7 games in conference play when they both were playing and Mac got hurt. Sure, and they were 6-0 before Mac’s eye injury.
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hoyazeke
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Post by hoyazeke on Aug 21, 2020 8:26:57 GMT -5
You have to admit that Ewing had the boys playing really well before Yurt and Mac went down.... Is this myth ever going to die? We were 2-5 in the first 7 games in conference play when they both were playing and Mac got hurt. Mac was hurt against American.... the last OOC game....he was never healthy again... what are you talking about?
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Post by hoyalove4ever on Aug 21, 2020 9:36:40 GMT -5
My answer is: coaches failing to adopt their own "uniform" of full Kente-cloth suits. We would have multiple national championships if we had done that.
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hoyasaxa2003
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Aug 21, 2020 14:33:56 GMT -5
So therefore, the condensed version is that the last 2 seasons of JT3 being at the helm, he was unable to adapt to the new rules on both sides of the court. Also, he and his staff were unable to recognize what kind of player(s) would be needed to fit the mold in what the changes presented itself with. Is this correct? I don't think it was the last two years. I think the defense thing was a rule change between the 12-13 and 13-14 season and our defense that was top 10 from when JTIII arrived to 2013 never recovered(look at KenPom defensive ratings by year.) Then before the 2015-16 season the college basketball shot clock was reduced from 35 to 30 seconds. I believe this combination was a deadly 1-2 punch to the style of Basketball that JTIII taught his players. Back when Hoya Prospectus did all their analytics, they had an article that showed that the shot percentage for JTIII teams scoring in the first 7 seconds and last 7 seconds of the 35 second shot clock were both well over 50%. After the shot clock change, the percentage of scoring in the first 7 seconds no doubt remained high as it is for most teams that score on a breakaway. The overall efficiency of the offense was never very high after the changes because the team lost all the high percentage end of clock shots the ball movement had created. At least that's my take! The freedom of movement rule change happened after the 2013 season. JT3's defense rankings after 2013 were: 91, 33, 81, 58. When you consider that 2011 to 2013 were, 55, 9, and 4, that's a huge difference. No doubt, the defense was a lot worse after 2013, however, and the other big difference was that AFTER the rule change, JT3 defenses fouled opponents at ridiculous rates, giving opposing teams huge free throw advantages. If you look at Free Throw Rate on Defense, it basically tells you whether your team fouls too much (higher the ranking, the worse). Through 2013, Georgetown was average on that. For example, from 2011 to 2013, our rank was 175, 175, 153. AFTER 2013, our ranking was 331, 306, 345, and 246. Basically, after the rule change, JT3 could not coach a good defense that did not foul. With Ewing, the problem is not fouling. In fact, we have fouled less than average all three years under Ewing, but in spite of that, our defensive rankings have been 119, 133, and 125 under Ewing. The big difference between JT3 and Ewing, is the JT3 teams (even the bad defensive ones) kept opponents' shooting percentages down (even in JT3's last two years, the team was in the top 40 on defending shooting). In contrast, Ewing teams do not defend opponents' shooting well at all. So, the reasons why we could not defend well under JT3 and Ewing are quite different. Neither worked, and as a result, we have been bad since. Both schemes used a fairly aggressive man-to-man, and I am just not sure that can work in this era, at least as coached by this coaching staff.
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prhoya
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Post by prhoya on Aug 21, 2020 16:07:45 GMT -5
I don't think it was the last two years. I think the defense thing was a rule change between the 12-13 and 13-14 season and our defense that was top 10 from when JTIII arrived to 2013 never recovered(look at KenPom defensive ratings by year.) Then before the 2015-16 season the college basketball shot clock was reduced from 35 to 30 seconds. I believe this combination was a deadly 1-2 punch to the style of Basketball that JTIII taught his players. Back when Hoya Prospectus did all their analytics, they had an article that showed that the shot percentage for JTIII teams scoring in the first 7 seconds and last 7 seconds of the 35 second shot clock were both well over 50%. After the shot clock change, the percentage of scoring in the first 7 seconds no doubt remained high as it is for most teams that score on a breakaway. The overall efficiency of the offense was never very high after the changes because the team lost all the high percentage end of clock shots the ball movement had created. At least that's my take! The freedom of movement rule change happened after the 2013 season. JT3's defense rankings after 2013 were: 91, 33, 81, 58. When you consider that 2011 to 2013 were, 55, 9, and 4, that's a huge difference. No doubt, the defense was a lot worse after 2013, however, and the other big difference was that AFTER the rule change, JT3 defenses fouled opponents at ridiculous rates, giving opposing teams huge free throw advantages. If you look at Free Throw Rate on Defense, it basically tells you whether your team fouls too much (higher the ranking, the worse). Through 2013, Georgetown was average on that. For example, from 2011 to 2013, our rank was 175, 175, 153. AFTER 2013, our ranking was 331, 306, 345, and 246. Basically, after the rule change, JT3 could not coach a good defense that did not foul. With Ewing, the problem is not fouling. In fact, we have fouled less than average all three years under Ewing, but in spite of that, our defensive rankings have been 119, 133, and 125 under Ewing. The big difference between JT3 and Ewing, is the JT3 teams (even the bad defensive ones) kept opponents' shooting percentages down (even in JT3's last two years, the team was in the top 40 on defending shooting). In contrast, Ewing teams do not defend opponents' shooting well at all. So, the reasons why we could not defend well under JT3 and Ewing are quite different. Neither worked, and as a result, we have been bad since. Both schemes used a fairly aggressive man-to-man, and I am just not sure that can work in this era, at least as coached by this coaching staff. Thanks for taking the time to do this research. I know some posters do not believe in numbers and facts, but I bet most appreciate it.
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Post by iheartdurenbros on Aug 21, 2020 16:35:43 GMT -5
Were any other programs severely affected by these changes? To the degree G-town experienced? I thought the rules killed UConn under Ollie. In some ways, that decline was more dramatic, since they had won a National Championship with him at the helm.
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the_way
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by the_way on Aug 21, 2020 18:24:35 GMT -5
So, what is the fix on defense?
Should we just play zone and call it a day like Boeheim?
Pack-line defense like UVA and others?
Tough man-to-man like Nova?
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