calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Feb 25, 2020 9:20:46 GMT -5
Basically, the clock has reset for Ewing. Year four is now year one, so we need to be good by year six. Good meaning NCAAs and over .500 in the BE. So now the expectations for NCAAs and a winning record in the BE have been pushed from 2019-2020 until 2022-2023? I can only hope that you are wrong and a victim of the pessimism that comes with losing. What happened this year is not reality. Did the departures set the program back? Of course. But it also moved the program forward in that Ewing developed as a coach in ways we had not seen. Making numerous in-game adjustments on defense and offense to cover for a lack of depth, all provided some of the best basketball this team has played in a long time. Yes there are positives from this year too. And there is absolutely no reason why this program should be allowed to push the "reset" button and ask any fan to wait three more years to decide if this coach is right for the program. It's a new world in college basketball and with transfers literally creating a free agent market, a good coaching staff can turn things around very quickly --even in the BE. Look at Creighton. We do not have to be DePaul or St. Johns and we should not develop the losing mentality of expecting minimal movement just because transfers and injuries wrecked this season. Fans should expect significant improvement next year, even with 7 new players. If that is not possible because returning players and new players are not BE ready or capable, then perhaps that is an indictment of this coaching staff and there is no reason to wait another 3 years to pass judgment.
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Feb 25, 2020 9:39:12 GMT -5
So now the expectations for NCAAs and a winning record in the BE have been pushed from 2019-2020 until 2022-2023? The expectation (and patience) at the Board of Directors level won't be 2022-2023. By that argument, Georgetown will have missed the NCAA's eight straight years and presumably a bottom 3-4 finish each of those years. Remember, this was the same board that opted to pay out millions to JT3 rather than merely keep him through 2019.
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Elvado
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Post by Elvado on Feb 25, 2020 9:46:01 GMT -5
We are only in a better place in so much as JTIII had run his course by 2017.
Pat can still right this ship. Fingers crossed.
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Post by hoya19809 on Feb 25, 2020 9:47:33 GMT -5
We cannot live in the past and continue to think what could of been. Ewing is landing 4yr players, he is betting on development. In the current landscape of college basketball, this not the worst thing. OBVI, my opinion.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Feb 25, 2020 10:11:54 GMT -5
Basically, the clock has reset for Ewing. Year four is now year one, so we need to be good by year six. Good meaning NCAAs and over .500 in the BE. The clock isn’t reset simply because Ewing recruited and then lost 4 of his better players (including one, who by all indications left because of displeasure despite having starter minutes and free reign on the court). 5 years without an NCAA bid and being under .500 would require change. Aside from DePaul every single Big East team has made the NCAA tournament at least once since 2016 except for us. That’s just unacceptable for another two years. The fact that every Big East program except DePaul is better situated than us is a problem. Ewing definitely gets more time but a complete timeline reset would be ridiculous.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on Feb 25, 2020 10:20:59 GMT -5
Basically, the clock has reset for Ewing. Year four is now year one, so we need to be good by year six. Good meaning NCAAs and over .500 in the BE. The clock isn’t reset simply because Ewing recruited and then lost 4 of his better players (including one, who by all indications left because of displeasure despite having starter minutes and free reign on the court). 5 years without an NCAA bid and being under .500 would require change. Aside from DePaul every single Big East team has made the NCAA tournament at least once since 2016 except for us. That’s just unacceptable for another two years. The fact that every Big East program except DePaul is better situated than us is a problem. Ewing definitely gets more time but a complete timeline reset would be ridiculous. I think Depaul might be better situated (just not the coach). They finally have a home court that is the right size. They are getting players they just don't seem to have the coaching. I think we have the coach, we need more players, and our gameday environment still is lacking.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Feb 25, 2020 10:23:03 GMT -5
Basically, the clock has reset for Ewing. Year four is now year one, so we need to be good by year six. Good meaning NCAAs and over .500 in the BE. So now the expectations for NCAAs and a winning record in the BE have been pushed from 2019-2020 until 2022-2023? I can only hope that you are wrong and a victim of the pessimism that comes with losing. What happened this year is not reality. Did the departures set the program back? Of course. But it also moved the program forward in that Ewing developed as a coach in ways we had not seen. Making numerous in-game adjustments on defense and offense to cover for a lack of depth, all provided some of the best basketball this team has played in a long time. Yes there are positives from this year too. And there is absolutely no reason why this program should be allowed to push the "reset" button and ask any fan to wait three more years to decide if this coach is right for the program. It's a new world in college basketball and with transfers literally creating a free agent market, a good coaching staff can turn things around very quickly --even in the BE. Look at Creighton. We do not have to be DePaul or St. Johns and we should not develop the losing mentality of expecting minimal movement just because transfers and injuries wrecked this season. Fans should expect significant improvement next year, even with 7 new players. If that is not possible because returning players and new players are not BE ready or capable, then perhaps that is an indictment of this coaching staff and there is no reason to wait another 3 years to pass judgment. Why mention Creighton? It's hard to have expectations until the roster is filled imo, if they get some high level grad transfers then sure expectations will go up for next year but I'm not sure if that builds a foundation for long-term success...
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Filo
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Post by Filo on Feb 25, 2020 10:28:10 GMT -5
Certainly last week was frustrating, but people are underestimating the talent Ewing has brought in. This is the best the new Big East has ever been top to bottom. We would not be having this thread with a healthy Mac. I'm also mildly optimistic about the recruiting class. There may not be any immediate stars, but Beard, Sibley, and Clark have all performed well against high level competition. As a long time season ticket holder through some very lean years, I have enjoyed attending just about every game the past two years. We may not always win, but we generally have competed and made runs even games we lost. I cannot say the same for the end of the JT3 era. I don't come around here as much as I used to because the negativity just sucks. I get the frustration and I can certainly see the case for pessimism. What I don't get, and what turns me off so much, is the need for some posters to keep up with negative post after negative post, dwelling on the negative and ignoring the positive. I think your reference to the "New Big East" is relevant. There were so much hand-wringing around here about the conference and how it was going to slip into mid-major irrelevancy, etc. etc. Look at how that turned out... probably the best basketball conference in the country, and it's strength is propping up our program right now. I have said elsewhere that I am agnostic on Ewing and I just want the team to start making the tournament again and the program to be relevant. However, I am hopeful and somewhat optimistic that Ewing will right this ship and GU can be what we all hoped it would be - a flagship program in the conference.
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hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on Feb 25, 2020 10:32:19 GMT -5
Went to the Dematha/St. Paul game. We need to fill our roster with some 2nd & 3rd type guys from those schools. Yes we aren't getting Roach & Timberlake, but kids like Chuck Harris, McDaniel and the kid from Dematha (Hawkins) played a nice game. Get a roster with some of those kids on the back end of the roster and suddenly you can regain some local interest. I saw Tony Skinn there, Jay Wright. Kiels is going to be good but he definitely carries some extra weight. He will be a load though. Dickinson is hot garbage. The kid plays soft and he would make it tough for me to watch the hoyas over the next four years. Basically we need some low profile local guys so we can build the pipeline to these schools so when we can show some on-court success, we are positioned for the next Timberlake. That kids is tough. There is a coach that is doing just (throwing in a couple PA kids) that at a lower level school and is likely going to the tournament in his 2nd year. He has Georgetown and DC ties and would be a natural fit here but there is a close to 0% chance he ever coaches here. I am not one that wants DMV kids just for the sake of having local kids. I do think it would help with local interest/attendance. I also think it should be easy to get good enough talent to make the tourney based on what’s here especially if you throw in Team Loaded. If you are going out and getting lower ranked recruits I see no reason why you can’t get similarly ranked local kids though. I think that would appease many. There is something else that might be worthy of a new thread but I’ll include it in here since it relates to this answer. If say we move on from Pat in 2 years will it matter? Will it only take JT2 being out of the picture to get a true reset? Will Ronny and JT3 carry on the legacy which prevents a true reset for the rest of time? If we do a reset will we get some of the local relationships back that may help us?
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Feb 25, 2020 10:47:03 GMT -5
Went to the Dematha/St. Paul game. We need to fill our roster with some 2nd & 3rd type guys from those schools. Yes we aren't getting Roach & Timberlake, but kids like Chuck Harris, McDaniel and the kid from Dematha (Hawkins) played a nice game. Get a roster with some of those kids on the back end of the roster and suddenly you can regain some local interest. I saw Tony Skinn there, Jay Wright. Kiels is going to be good but he definitely carries some extra weight. He will be a load though. Dickinson is hot garbage. The kid plays soft and he would make it tough for me to watch the hoyas over the next four years. Basically we need some low profile local guys so we can build the pipeline to these schools so when we can show some on-court success, we are positioned for the next Timberlake. That kids is tough. There is a coach that is doing just (throwing in a couple PA kids) that at a lower level school and is likely going to the tournament in his 2nd year. He has Georgetown and DC ties and would be a natural fit here but there is a close to 0% chance he ever coaches here. I am not one that wants DMV kids just for the sake of having local kids. I do think it would help with local interest/attendance. I also think it should be easy to get good enough talent to make the tourney based on what’s here especially if you throw in Team Loaded. If you are going out and getting lower ranked recruits I see no reason why you can’t get similarly ranked local kids though. I think that would appease many. There is something else that might be worthy of a new thread but I’ll include it in here since it relates to this answer. If say we move on from Pat in 2 years will it matter? Will it only take JT2 being out of the picture to get a true reset? Will Ronny and JT3 carry on the legacy which prevents a true reset for the rest of time? If we do a reset will we get some of the local relationships back that may help us? What exactly would a true reset look like in your view?
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hoyainla
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Post by hoyainla on Feb 25, 2020 10:53:51 GMT -5
There is a coach that is doing just (throwing in a couple PA kids) that at a lower level school and is likely going to the tournament in his 2nd year. He has Georgetown and DC ties and would be a natural fit here but there is a close to 0% chance he ever coaches here. I am not one that wants DMV kids just for the sake of having local kids. I do think it would help with local interest/attendance. I also think it should be easy to get good enough talent to make the tourney based on what’s here especially if you throw in Team Loaded. If you are going out and getting lower ranked recruits I see no reason why you can’t get similarly ranked local kids though. I think that would appease many. There is something else that might be worthy of a new thread but I’ll include it in here since it relates to this answer. If say we move on from Pat in 2 years will it matter? Will it only take JT2 being out of the picture to get a true reset? Will Ronny and JT3 carry on the legacy which prevents a true reset for the rest of time? If we do a reset will we get some of the local relationships back that may help us? What exactly would a true reset look like in your view? One that comes with none of the relationship limitations of the current one. One that comes with previous relationships that will help us. One that allows the coach to operate as he feels best without having something hanging over his head. I guess at the end of the day a better question may be what are the benefits of the current situation if you speak of it as the present and future and not rewarding the past?
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drquigley
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Post by drquigley on Feb 25, 2020 11:38:38 GMT -5
I'm feeling better today so let me add some positivity to this discussion. Thanks to our membership in the BE Georgetown will always be a legit D1 power school. That means we will always have the opportunity to emerge as a national power, e.g. Nova/Creighton/Seton Hall. It also means we will always have the opportunity to attract quality players and coaches. The fact that the events of this year and the failures of the previous 3-5 years are keeping us from realizing this potential doesn't mean that the potential isn't there or that we will sink to the St. John's/DePaul level forever. This is college basketball not football. You don't need 40+ athletes, a monster stadium and sports complex, tens of millions of dollars, and a quasi-corrupt athletic department to be competitive. Remember how quickly JT2 and JT3 turned the program around and see what Jay Wright has accomplished at Nova. So let's all take a deep breath and look objectively at where we are with PE. Does anyone really doubt that without the defections and injuries we would be a legit BE contender and NCAA tourney team this year? And if we had LeBlanc and Gardner coming back next year with a healthy Mac and experienced Wahab plus our incoming freshmen class we might even be a pre-season BE champion contender next year. So yes we had to take a step back but unless this transfer phenomenon becomes an ongoing issue with PE I think it is fair to give PE a 2-3 year reset. Are we better off than we were 3 years ago? I'd say yes. Face it, if it weren't for a couple of knuckleheads harassing GU coeds we could easily be 8-5 this year instead of 5-8 and we'd all be complementing PE on turning the program around.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Feb 25, 2020 12:17:31 GMT -5
What exactly would a true reset look like in your view? One that comes with none of the relationship limitations of the current one. One that comes with previous relationships that will help us. One that allows the coach to operate as he feels best without having something hanging over his head. I guess at the end of the day a better question may be what are the benefits of the current situation if you speak of it as the present and future and not rewarding the past? So you feel as though nothing about Gtown basketball really changed after JT3 left except for a couple of new asst coaches and playing style?
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Feb 25, 2020 12:19:34 GMT -5
What exactly would a true reset look like in your view? One that comes with none of the relationship limitations of the current one. One that comes with previous relationships that will help us. One that allows the coach to operate as he feels best without having something hanging over his head. I guess at the end of the day a better question may be what are the benefits of the current situation if you speak of it as the present and future and not rewarding the past? As a threshold, let me say that I truly hope Ewing turns things around. As I've said countless times, I think the best result for everyone involved would be for Ewing to return the team to the tournament, have success, etc. I would love to see Ewing coaching a tournament team. All that said, if the university ever decides to make a change (whenever that happens, be it sooner or later), but isn't going to do a serious search, then there is no point to making any changes.
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guru
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Post by guru on Feb 25, 2020 13:08:58 GMT -5
One that comes with none of the relationship limitations of the current one. One that comes with previous relationships that will help us. One that allows the coach to operate as he feels best without having something hanging over his head. I guess at the end of the day a better question may be what are the benefits of the current situation if you speak of it as the present and future and not rewarding the past? As a threshold, let me say that I truly hope Ewing turns things around. As I've said countless times, I think the best result for everyone involved would be for Ewing to return the team to the tournament, have success, etc. I would love to see Ewing coaching a tournament team. All that said, if the university ever decides to make a change (whenever that happens, be it sooner or later), but isn't going to do a serious search, then there is no point to making any changes. Maybe consider why you so often feel the need to caveat your thoughts by assuring your fellow fans that you “truly” support Ewing as a coach and you “would love” to see him coach in the tourney (which, actually, still could happen this year). You are among the posters who is still sore about JT3’s firing. That’s the situation from which Ewing is still attempting to “turn around.” The negligence displayed in the final four years of JT3, combined with the launch of the new conference, is chiefly responsible for the hole out of which we are still digging.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Feb 25, 2020 13:28:15 GMT -5
As a threshold, let me say that I truly hope Ewing turns things around. As I've said countless times, I think the best result for everyone involved would be for Ewing to return the team to the tournament, have success, etc. I would love to see Ewing coaching a tournament team. All that said, if the university ever decides to make a change (whenever that happens, be it sooner or later), but isn't going to do a serious search, then there is no point to making any changes. Maybe consider why you so often feel the need to caveat your thoughts by assuring your fellow fans that you “truly” support Ewing as a coach and you “would love” to see him coach in the tourney (which, actually, still could happen this year). You are among the posters who is still sore about JT3’s firing. That’s the situation from which Ewing is still attempting to “turn around.” The negligence displayed in the final four years of JT3, combined with the launch of the new conference, is chiefly responsible for the hole out of which we are still digging. JT3 is long gone, PE has had 2 1/2 recruiting classes and 3 full years to put his stamp on the program, can't blame JT3 any longer in my view... Besides asst coaches & playing style, what's changed about Gtown basketball since PE took over?
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mdtd
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Post by mdtd on Feb 25, 2020 13:55:15 GMT -5
One of my buddies who is a big college football fan coined what he calls, "The Arkansas Test." It works like this.... If you're not sure whether you should keep your current coach, you call up Arkansas and ask, "Hey, Arkansas, do you want our coach?" If Arkansas replies, "No," then you fire his ass. For college basketball, I propose The Seton Hall Test..... If anyone was to do the "Seton Hall Test" there would be about 340 teams without a head coach
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DFW HOYA
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Post by DFW HOYA on Feb 25, 2020 14:03:18 GMT -5
One of my buddies who is a big college football fan coined what he calls, "The Arkansas Test." It works like this.... If you're not sure whether you should keep your current coach, you call up Arkansas and ask, "Hey, Arkansas, do you want our coach?" If Arkansas replies, "No," then you fire his ass. For college basketball, I propose The Seton Hall Test..... If anyone was to do the "Seton Hall Test" there would be about 340 teams without a head coach I thought the joke went that if you call up Arkansas and ask, "Hey, Arkansas, do you want our coach?" If Arkansas replies, "Yes," then you fire him. The Porkers have had six head coaches go through Fayetteville in 12 years. (They should have never left the SWC...) Bobby Petrino 2008–2011 John L. Smith 2012 Bret Bielema 2013–2017 Paul Rhoads 2017 Chad Morris 2017–2019 Sam Pittman 2020–Current
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guru
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Post by guru on Feb 25, 2020 14:05:36 GMT -5
Maybe consider why you so often feel the need to caveat your thoughts by assuring your fellow fans that you “truly” support Ewing as a coach and you “would love” to see him coach in the tourney (which, actually, still could happen this year). You are among the posters who is still sore about JT3’s firing. That’s the situation from which Ewing is still attempting to “turn around.” The negligence displayed in the final four years of JT3, combined with the launch of the new conference, is chiefly responsible for the hole out of which we are still digging. JT3 is long gone, PE has had 2 1/2 recruiting classes and 3 full years to put his stamp on the program, can't blame JT3 any longer in my view... Besides asst coaches & playing style, what's changed about Gtown basketball since PE took over? Simply saying that the required rebuild was a lot more extensive than most here acknowledge. As for your question, I’d say coaching staff and style of play are significant changes. But you’re right that nothing will truly change until the JT Jr influence is gone. The grip he maintains on the program at this point is remarkable. And bad for everyone except he and his family.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Feb 25, 2020 14:19:17 GMT -5
Maybe consider why you so often feel the need to caveat your thoughts by assuring your fellow fans that you “truly” support Ewing as a coach and you “would love” to see him coach in the tourney (which, actually, still could happen this year). You are among the posters who is still sore about JT3’s firing. That’s the situation from which Ewing is still attempting to “turn around.” The negligence displayed in the final four years of JT3, combined with the launch of the new conference, is chiefly responsible for the hole out of which we are still digging. When it comes to your responses to my posts, you have one goal and one goal only, which is to be contrary even when you agree with me (which it seems is the case based on your post that came after this one in response to someone else). Whether JT3 should have been fired is really irrelevant at this point, because he was fired, and that's it. My main concern right now is winning as quickly as possible, and Ewing is our coach, so that's what I want to see. Ewing is a Georgetown great, and I'd love for him to be remembered fondly for his coaching too. Your insinuations that it is anything more are hollow. That said, I do disagree that the JT3 sitaution is what Ewing is "still attempting to 'turn around'" is simply wrong. I fully admit that Ewing did not inherit a good situation (though his roster wasn't nearly as depleted as some say), and I never expected him to turn it around immediately. But, we are now in Year 3. The expectation coming into this year was that we would make the tournament, and as you said, it's still possible (even if unlikely). I would be hugely thrilled if we made it this year. But, for those of you who wanted regime change back in 2017, the time is pretty much over for laying the blame back then. Ewing has now gone through 3 recruiting cycles (yes, by necessity, the first one was weird). Mosely is the only guy on the roster from the previous staff. Next year, it'll be all Ewing's guys. The single piece of adversity that Ewing is fighting now has nothing to do with JT3 but rather the fact that after successfully recruiting some very solid players, one of them chose to leave despite having essentially free reign (Akinjo), and the 3 others left after the legal troubles (unclear how much was their decision v. Georgetown's). This resulted in an extremely difficult season this year with no depth, and it led to Ewing having to probably go deeper into the 2020 class to fill the gaps that opened. As I've said before, it is incredibly uncommon to lose 4 players (2 starter quality) from your team in one season. That's the main reason why the program is struggling at the moment, and if you're going to blame anybody outside the players, it's certainly not the previous regime.
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