thedragon
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Post by thedragon on Apr 13, 2022 10:48:21 GMT -5
If you read my prior post to the Nova one in this thread - I explained why I disagree with that. 5 of their 7 man rotation were transfers. All within this season or last. I do no think that's comparable to Nova at all. That's kind of debatable though - two kids here took red shirts at Providence, most of the college time was at Providence : Watson : 5 years at Providence Durham : 1 year at Providence, 4 at Indiana Bynum : 3 years at Providence, 1 at St. Joe's Horchler : 3 years at Providence, 2 at North Florida Reeves : 4 years at Providence Minaya : 1 year at Providence, 4 at South Carolina Croswell : 2 years at Providence, 2 at La Salle Breed : 2 years at Providence Goodine : 2 years at Providence, 1 at Syracuse Fonts : 5 years at Providence Bynum/Minaya are definitely mostly transfer-developed, but everyone else was at Providence longer than anywhere else, and I bet they graduate a lot more of these players. Your conflating the pre-free agency transfer rules with the current. Providence doesn't get a gold star because Horchler and Bynum had to sit out a year in 19-20. They both played 2 years at Provy. They don't have a single transfer (again they only played a 7 man rotation mostly so the 3 you list at the bottom are pretty moot) of the 5 that played more than 2 years. If getting a couple transfers to stay 2 years so that the whole class is upperclassmen makes you Nova - then sign me up. But it doesn't. |
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Apr 13, 2022 10:56:27 GMT -5
I'm by no means defending Ewing and his regime re:keeping players. Developing them I think is a much more interesting argument - as there are both successes and failures. But this idea that we are choosing talent over retention. Or that dealing with players that have handlers/guardians is somehow a red flag is pretty shortsighted. 1300+ players in the portal. Schools like Uconn, which had a successful year last year, have lost 3 guys, at least 2 of which would have slotted into large playing time roles with who they have leaving. They currently have 5 scholarships available. And their team leader and best player was a Howard transfer. Retention is a thing of the past in most instances. And with NIL money being offered around parents even moreso like the idea of someone that "knows how the system works" to help guide their kid. Look at Providence this year. Their age was brought up as reason for their success many times. Yet 5 of their top 7 rotation players were transfers. They were able to keep Reeves and Watson around. The rest of their contributors - Bynum (St Joes). Horchler (UNF). Minaya (South Carolina). Croswell (Lasalle). Durham (Indiana). All transfers. Providence had their best season in forever. Yet their top recruit decommitted because he is going to get more attractive NIL offers elsewhere. If you come to watch college basketball for the camaraderie and loyalty and school spirit - I'd recommend a switch to another sport.  3 of the 5 PC transfers were multi year guys so retention did matter a lot to their success. I think both Pierre & Berry are better players than the big kid who changed his mind on PC Hurley stated two weeks ago he was going to look into the portal for skilled perimeter guys, on fact he had 6-5 guard Tristen Newton a Jr. from East Carolina on campus this weekend.. Given those facts I'm not surprised Floyd or Doogins left. Not sure how teams can gel when they're changing so much year to year. |
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BeantownHoya
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Post by BeantownHoya on Apr 13, 2022 10:57:24 GMT -5
If you read my prior post to the Nova one in this thread - I explained why I disagree with that. 5 of their 7 man rotation were transfers. All within this season or last. I do no think that's comparable to Nova at all. That's kind of debatable though - two kids here took red shirts at Providence, most of the college time was at Providence : Watson : 5 years at Providence Durham : 1 year at Providence, 4 at Indiana Bynum : 3 years at Providence, 1 at St. Joe's Horchler : 3 years at Providence, 2 at North Florida Reeves : 4 years at Providence Minaya : 1 year at Providence, 4 at South Carolina Croswell : 2 years at Providence, 2 at La Salle Breed : 2 years at Providence Goodine : 2 years at Providence, 1 at Syracuse Fonts : 5 years at Providence Bynum/Minaya are definitely mostly transfer-developed, but everyone else was at Providence longer than anywhere else, and I bet they graduate a lot more of these players. Fonts and Goodine should not be on the list of representing either a rotational player or key cog at Providence. Fonts has played 65 minutes over 5 seasons. Goodine average less than 6 minutes a game. The other 8 players, their core average over 13 minutes a game. So that's 18 years at Providence and 13 years elsewhere. Look we can all twist stats to represent our narratives and no one is necessarily wrong. That being said it feels like to me the Nova model will be difficult if not impossible to replicate in the upcoming seasons. I think the key will be if Gtown is that players first transfer and early in their career. That way they have wiped away now their free transfer year in all likelihood and you have them potentially committed for 2+ seasons. Murray fits that mold. BHH would fit that mold. Personally that's who I would target in the Portal and I think most likely the makeup you will see of winning teams beyond a few players like a Watson who stays for all 5. |
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hoyarooter
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Post by hoyarooter on Apr 13, 2022 20:30:26 GMT -5
That's kind of debatable though - two kids here took red shirts at Providence, most of the college time was at Providence : Watson : 5 years at Providence Durham : 1 year at Providence, 4 at Indiana Bynum : 3 years at Providence, 1 at St. Joe's Horchler : 3 years at Providence, 2 at North Florida Reeves : 4 years at Providence Minaya : 1 year at Providence, 4 at South Carolina Croswell : 2 years at Providence, 2 at La Salle Breed : 2 years at Providence Goodine : 2 years at Providence, 1 at Syracuse Fonts : 5 years at Providence Bynum/Minaya are definitely mostly transfer-developed, but everyone else was at Providence longer than anywhere else, and I bet they graduate a lot more of these players. Fonts and Goodine should not be on the list of representing either a rotational player or key cog at Providence. Fonts has played 65 minutes over 5 seasons. Goodine average less than 6 minutes a game. The other 8 players, their core average over 13 minutes a game. So that's 18 years at Providence and 13 years elsewhere. Look we can all twist stats to represent our narratives and no one is necessarily wrong. That being said it feels like to me the Nova model will be difficult if not impossible to replicate in the upcoming seasons. I think the key will be if Gtown is that players first transfer and early in their career. That way they have wiped away now their free transfer year in all likelihood and you have them potentially committed for 2+ seasons. Murray fits that mold. BHH would fit that mold. Personally that's who I would target in the Portal and I think most likely the makeup you will see of winning teams beyond a few players like a Watson who stays for all 5. This is all well and good, provided that Murray and hopefully BHH stick around. Also, can someone explain how this brave new world impacts the NCAA requirement that teams keep their players academically eligible and graduate them? |
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Apr 13, 2022 21:02:53 GMT -5
Fonts and Goodine should not be on the list of representing either a rotational player or key cog at Providence. Fonts has played 65 minutes over 5 seasons. Goodine average less than 6 minutes a game. The other 8 players, their core average over 13 minutes a game. So that's 18 years at Providence and 13 years elsewhere. Look we can all twist stats to represent our narratives and no one is necessarily wrong. That being said it feels like to me the Nova model will be difficult if not impossible to replicate in the upcoming seasons. I think the key will be if Gtown is that players first transfer and early in their career. That way they have wiped away now their free transfer year in all likelihood and you have them potentially committed for 2+ seasons. Murray fits that mold. BHH would fit that mold. Personally that's who I would target in the Portal and I think most likely the makeup you will see of winning teams beyond a few players like a Watson who stays for all 5. This is all well and good, provided that Murray and hopefully BHH stick around. Also, can someone explain how this brave new world impacts the NCAA requirement that teams keep their players academically eligible and graduate them? If Murray is as good as the Ewing/Nickleberry fans seem to believe, he’ll only be here one year. BHH is here at least 3 years. He’s an athletic lunch pail guy with few basketball skills who will not be attractive to NBA scouts. If he leaves Georgetown early, it will be to transfer down a level. |
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Bigs"R"Us
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Post by Bigs"R"Us on Apr 13, 2022 21:52:56 GMT -5
Fonts and Goodine should not be on the list of representing either a rotational player or key cog at Providence. Fonts has played 65 minutes over 5 seasons. Goodine average less than 6 minutes a game. The other 8 players, their core average over 13 minutes a game. So that's 18 years at Providence and 13 years elsewhere. Look we can all twist stats to represent our narratives and no one is necessarily wrong. That being said it feels like to me the Nova model will be difficult if not impossible to replicate in the upcoming seasons. I think the key will be if Gtown is that players first transfer and early in their career. That way they have wiped away now their free transfer year in all likelihood and you have them potentially committed for 2+ seasons. Murray fits that mold. BHH would fit that mold. Personally that's who I would target in the Portal and I think most likely the makeup you will see of winning teams beyond a few players like a Watson who stays for all 5. This is all well and good, provided that Murray and hopefully BHH stick around. Also, can someone explain how this brave new world impacts the NCAA requirement that teams keep their players academically eligible and graduate them? Forget the term student-athlete. Think pick-up game. You select new players every season. |
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TC
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Post by TC on Apr 14, 2022 5:18:23 GMT -5
This is all well and good, provided that Murray and hopefully BHH stick around. Also, can someone explain how this brave new world impacts the NCAA requirement that teams keep their players academically eligible and graduate them? Forget the term student-athlete. Think pick-up game. You select new players every season. Again - stable programs like Villanova or Providence or Creighton will actually graduate kids. Desperate programs like Georgetown where the only mission statement is keeping the Coach employed will be turnstyles. |
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Post by bornhoya on Apr 14, 2022 18:32:42 GMT -5
This is all well and good, provided that Murray and hopefully BHH stick around. Also, can someone explain how this brave new world impacts the NCAA requirement that teams keep their players academically eligible and graduate them? If Murray is as good as the Ewing/Nickleberry fans seem to believe, he’ll only be here one year. BHH is here at least 3 years. He’s an athletic lunch pail guy with few basketball skills who will not be attractive to NBA scouts. If he leaves Georgetown early, it will be to transfer down a level. So the 6’10 guy who can run and jump and hit the mud range jumper has few basketball skills? |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2022 19:07:01 GMT -5
This is all well and good, provided that Murray and hopefully BHH stick around. Also, can someone explain how this brave new world impacts the NCAA requirement that teams keep their players academically eligible and graduate them? If Murray is as good as the Ewing/Nickleberry fans seem to believe, he’ll only be here one year. BHH is here at least 3 years. He’s an athletic lunch pail guy with few basketball skills who will not be attractive to NBA scouts. If he leaves Georgetown early, it will be to transfer down a level. I would play him at center but he has more skills than you're giving him credit for here imo. |
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hoyazeke
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Post by hoyazeke on Apr 14, 2022 19:16:13 GMT -5
If Murray is as good as the Ewing/Nickleberry fans seem to believe, he’ll only be here one year. BHH is here at least 3 years. He’s an athletic lunch pail guy with few basketball skills who will not be attractive to NBA scouts. If he leaves Georgetown early, it will be to transfer down a level. I would play him at center but he has more skills than you're giving him credit for here imo. He looks like the perfect 4 to put beside Ryan...this kid would change our trajectory for next year. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2022 19:26:04 GMT -5
I would play him at center but he has more skills than you're giving him credit for here imo. He looks like the perfect 4 to put beside Ryan...this kid would change our trajectory for next year. I don't like how that looks on D personally. Think his best position is Center where he can cause mismatch problems and defend all over the court. |
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hoyazeke
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Post by hoyazeke on Apr 14, 2022 19:33:32 GMT -5
He looks like the perfect 4 to put beside Ryan...this kid would change our trajectory for next year. I don't like how that looks on D personally. Think his best position is Center where he can cause mismatch problems and defend all over the court. I hear you but the kid would have to want to play the 5...also I believe most of your concerns have to do with Ryan on D. Ryan is a grinder so I wouldn't be surprised if he is a better defender next season....he'll be stronger for sure. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2022 19:55:08 GMT -5
I don't like how that looks on D personally. Think his best position is Center where he can cause mismatch problems and defend all over the court. I hear you but the kid would have to want to play the 5...also I believe most of your concerns have to do with Ryan on D. Ryan is a grinder so I wouldn't be surprised if he is a better defender next season....he'll be stronger for sure. He played 5 for Tennessee a lot. I don't think getting stronger will help Ryan guard in space which in my opinion was his biggest issue. I also don't think you want BHH guarding smaller quicker players for 30 minutes either. No point in worrying about it rn though since he is still exploring options and hasn't committed to any school. |
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hoyaroc
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Post by hoyaroc on Apr 15, 2022 0:11:51 GMT -5
I hear you but the kid would have to want to play the 5...also I believe most of your concerns have to do with Ryan on D. Ryan is a grinder so I wouldn't be surprised if he is a better defender next season....he'll be stronger for sure. He played 5 for Tennessee a lot. I don't think getting stronger will help Ryan guard in space which in my opinion was his biggest issue. I also don't think you want BHH guarding smaller quicker players for 30 minutes either. No point in worrying about it rn though since he is still exploring options and hasn't committed to any school. I believe BHH left Tenn due to playing the 5 and lack playing time. |
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hoyazeke
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Post by hoyazeke on Apr 15, 2022 5:57:48 GMT -5
I hear you but the kid would have to want to play the 5...also I believe most of your concerns have to do with Ryan on D. Ryan is a grinder so I wouldn't be surprised if he is a better defender next season....he'll be stronger for sure. He played 5 for Tennessee a lot. I don't think getting stronger will help Ryan guard in space which in my opinion was his biggest issue. I also don't think you want BHH guarding smaller quicker players for 30 minutes either. No point in worrying about it rn though since he is still exploring options and hasn't committed to any school. Yeah very true about getting worked up about it during these early stages....my last thought...the kid you showed in the highlights probably views himself as a 4/3 or maybe even a 3/4. I don't think that I saw one post up in the 3mins of film. I see a kid that probably idolized Bron Bron or KD...😁 |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2022 8:12:24 GMT -5
He played 5 for Tennessee a lot. I don't think getting stronger will help Ryan guard in space which in my opinion was his biggest issue. I also don't think you want BHH guarding smaller quicker players for 30 minutes either. No point in worrying about it rn though since he is still exploring options and hasn't committed to any school. I believe BHH left Tenn due to playing the 5 and lack playing time. According to the Tennessee board it was somewhat related to pt and other reasons. Playing the 5 wasn’t listed but since we’re not hearing from the kid it’s all speculation. Think it’s important to note the video was from 2 years ago and he’s grown a few inches and bulked up since then. He’s not quite the same player but foundational skills are still there. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2022 8:49:06 GMT -5
I believe BHH left Tenn due to playing the 5 and lack playing time. According to the Tennessee board it was somewhat related to pt and other reasons. Playing the 5 wasn’t listed but since we’re not hearing from the kid it’s all speculation. Think it’s important to note the video was from 2 years ago and he’s grown a few inches and bulked up since then. He’s not quite the same player but foundational skills are still there. He’s also a reclass kid - he was originally a 2022 kid, but he reclassified after committing to Tenn. |
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Omega
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Post by Omega on Apr 15, 2022 10:37:05 GMT -5
That's kind of debatable though - two kids here took red shirts at Providence, most of the college time was at Providence : Watson : 5 years at Providence Durham : 1 year at Providence, 4 at Indiana Bynum : 3 years at Providence, 1 at St. Joe's Horchler : 3 years at Providence, 2 at North Florida Reeves : 4 years at Providence Minaya : 1 year at Providence, 4 at South Carolina Croswell : 2 years at Providence, 2 at La Salle Breed : 2 years at Providence Goodine : 2 years at Providence, 1 at Syracuse Fonts : 5 years at Providence Bynum/Minaya are definitely mostly transfer-developed, but everyone else was at Providence longer than anywhere else, and I bet they graduate a lot more of these players. Your conflating the pre-free agency transfer rules with the current. Providence doesn't get a gold star because Horchler and Bynum had to sit out a year in 19-20. They both played 2 years at Provy. They don't have a single transfer (again they only played a 7 man rotation mostly so the 3 you list at the bottom are pretty moot) of the 5 that played more than 2 years. If getting a couple transfers to stay 2 years so that the whole class is upperclassmen makes you Nova - then sign me up. But it doesn't. Is there really a debate about retention? Had Coach retained more players, GU would have been where Provy was this year... I support whoever is coaching the team. But there is no doubt, the current coach needs to retain his players. Most teams in the BE last year were older...I never understood why Coach couldn't convince Blair and Bile to stay? |
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thedragon
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Post by thedragon on Apr 15, 2022 11:27:44 GMT -5
Your conflating the pre-free agency transfer rules with the current. Providence doesn't get a gold star because Horchler and Bynum had to sit out a year in 19-20. They both played 2 years at Provy. They don't have a single transfer (again they only played a 7 man rotation mostly so the 3 you list at the bottom are pretty moot) of the 5 that played more than 2 years. If getting a couple transfers to stay 2 years so that the whole class is upperclassmen makes you Nova - then sign me up. But it doesn't. Is there really a debate about retention? Had Coach retained more players, GU would have been where Provy was this year... I support whoever is coaching the team. But there is no doubt, the current coach needs to retain his players. Most teams in the BE last year were older...I never understood why Coach couldn't convince Blair and Bile to stay? No disagreement whatsoever Omega I was just stating that I don't look at Provy as a good example of pulling off the Nova model. |
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seaweed
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Post by seaweed on Apr 15, 2022 15:47:23 GMT -5
Your conflating the pre-free agency transfer rules with the current. Providence doesn't get a gold star because Horchler and Bynum had to sit out a year in 19-20. They both played 2 years at Provy. They don't have a single transfer (again they only played a 7 man rotation mostly so the 3 you list at the bottom are pretty moot) of the 5 that played more than 2 years. If getting a couple transfers to stay 2 years so that the whole class is upperclassmen makes you Nova - then sign me up. But it doesn't. Is there really a debate about retention? Had Coach retained more players, GU would have been where Provy was this year... I support whoever is coaching the team. But there is no doubt, the current coach needs to retain his players. Most teams in the BE last year were older...I never understood why Coach couldn't convince Blair and Bile to stay? Probably cause he thought we would be better off w Tre King and Jordan Riley, but one flaked out and the other got hurt. |
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