Brandon Murray 2020 to LSU, transfer to Georgetown

[hoya9797]

Apr 12, 2022 4:14:23 GMT -5 hoyazeke said:

Apr 11, 2022 19:42:33 GMT -5 hoya9797 said:

Sorry, that Ewing is horrible is established fact and anyone who would tie his future to him is an idiot. This is the way it is.

Do you want GTown to be good or do you want GTown to be bad? Your reaction to GTown getting a good player is very odd. Almost like you don't want good players to come to GTown…..Would you rather have another 6-25 season to ensure that Ewing isn't coaching after next year?

I would like them to be good but in a sustainable way. What this failure of a coach is doing in reboot #4 is not that. He will fail because that’s what he does and he’ll be off trying to find seven new players in year one, part five. It’s ridiculous.

[guru]

Apr 12, 2022 7:40:20 GMT -5 hoya9797 said:

Apr 12, 2022 4:14:23 GMT -5 hoyazeke said:

Do you want GTown to be good or do you want GTown to be bad? Your reaction to GTown getting a good player is very odd. Almost like you don't want good players to come to GTown…..Would you rather have another 6-25 season to ensure that Ewing isn't coaching after next year?

I would like them to be good but in a sustainable way. What this failure of a coach is doing in reboot #4 is not that. He will fail because that’s what he does and he’ll be off trying to find seven new players in year one, part five. It’s ridiculous.

Look, the act played well during the season. Now that it's clear no head coaching change is being made, it's tired, dated and just terribly annoying for anyone trying to find news and discussion about the team.

There is no one on the board unfamiliar with your stance on Patrick Ewing. Your constant need to remind us all that you know just how bad a coach we have reveals a character flaw in yourself that you really should work on. It would be a better use of your time than posting the same thing 10x a day here.

[AltoSaxa]

Great pickup. Unfortunately looks like a 1:1 swap for Aminu

[guru]

Apr 12, 2022 8:03:03 GMT -5 AltoSaxa said:

Great pickup. Unfortunately looks like a 1:1 swap for Aminu

Love the player, but losing Aminu's handler is a win for the program.

[trotters10]

Apr 12, 2022 8:05:28 GMT -5 guru said:

Apr 12, 2022 8:03:03 GMT -5 AltoSaxa said:

Great pickup. Unfortunately looks like a 1:1 swap for Aminu

Love the player, but losing Aminu's handler is a win for the program.

Is it ever. What a nightmare Shawn Harmon is. Calling out Patrick like that yesterday (when all Patrick did was wish Aminu best in whatever route he decides to go) is insane behavior. So insane, Etan Thomas had to reply to Harmon, and call him out. Nicely done Etan.

Hopefully in the future, Georgetown can spot a weirdo handler quickly, and just avoid the player all together. Love Aminu though, he'll be a great player. Such a shame, because I believe he does need another year in college, but Harmon is hoping he can cash in on Aminu and is giving him terrible advice (so it seems, at least).

[Ranch Dressing]

<5% chance Aminu returns with Murray signing.

[hoyaroc]

Apr 12, 2022 22:00:00 GMT -5 Ranch Dressing said:

<5% chance Aminu returns with Murray signing.

#24 is now available.

[TC]

Apr 12, 2022 8:17:46 GMT -5 trotters10 said:

Hopefully in the future, Georgetown can spot a weirdo handler quickly, and just avoid the player all together. Love Aminu though, he'll be a great player. Such a shame, because I believe he does need another year in college, but Harmon is hoping he can cash in on Aminu and is giving him terrible advice (so it seems, at least).

0-20 beggars can't be choosers. If you want to go all-in on talent and not on developing kids and retaining them, you are going to have to deal with people that aren't going to toe the party line.

[s4hoyas]

I think that there's a lot of prejudging of Shawn Harmon's intentions relative to his comments of Aminu being 1000 percent committed to the NBA draft...I believe that he has Aminu's best interest in mind based on all he's said over the past couple of years...he likely made the comment to assure NBA types of Aminu's sincerity in his efforts relative to the draft, and to avoid giving the impression that he's merely "window shopping" which could result in him not getting really focused attention and best evaluation in the process...I, like most others, think Aminu would be best served by coming back for another year and after a strong summer working on areas of improvement (mid/long range shooting, passing, etc) and another year reflecting those improvements, I think he could significantly enhance his draft status as well as get closer to his degree...

[ColumbiaHeightsHoya]

Apr 12, 2022 22:00:00 GMT -5 Ranch Dressing said:

<5% chance Aminu returns with Murray signing.

Maybe true but having two strong wings that can play D seems like a major plus. IT would take a lot of pressure off Aminu too. As far as weirdo handlers someone mentioned, aren't all "handlers" kind of weirdos by definition? I'll hang up and listen.

[thejerseytornado]

Apr 13, 2022 7:16:44 GMT -5 s4hoyas said:

I think that there's a lot of prejudging of Shawn Harmon's intentions relative to his comments of Aminu being 1000 percent committed to the NBA draft...I believe that he has Aminu's best interest in mind based on all he's said over the past couple of years...he likely made the comment to assure NBA types of Aminu's sincerity in his efforts relative to the draft, and to avoid giving the impression that he's merely "window shopping" which could result in him not getting really focused attention and best evaluation in the process...I, like most others, think Aminu would be best served by coming back for another year and after a strong summer working on areas of improvement (mid/long range shooting, passing, etc) and another year reflecting those improvements, I think he could significantly enhance his draft status as well as get closer to his degree...

it's the "certain individuals" and "whatever school" line that has me angry/disappointed/assuming the worst, not the being committed to the draft line

[bigskyhoya]

Apr 13, 2022 6:36:30 GMT -5 TC said:

Apr 12, 2022 8:17:46 GMT -5 trotters10 said:

Hopefully in the future, Georgetown can spot a weirdo handler quickly, and just avoid the player all together. Love Aminu though, he'll be a great player. Such a shame, because I believe he does need another year in college, but Harmon is hoping he can cash in on Aminu and is giving him terrible advice (so it seems, at least).

0-20 beggars can't be choosers. If you want to go all-in on talent and not on developing kids and retaining them, you are going to have to deal with people that aren't going to toe the party line.

Any program looking to recruit top talent, successful or not, has to deal with handlers on occasion, so your statement makes no sense.

[thedragon]

I'm by no means defending Ewing and his regime re:keeping players. Developing them I think is a much more interesting argument - as there are both successes and failures.

But this idea that we are choosing talent over retention. Or that dealing with players that have handlers/guardians is somehow a red flag is pretty shortsighted.

1300+ players in the portal. Schools like Uconn, which had a successful year last year, have lost 3 guys, at least 2 of which would have slotted into large playing time roles with who they have leaving. They currently have 5 scholarships available. And their team leader and best player was a Howard transfer.

Retention is a thing of the past in most instances. And with NIL money being offered around parents even moreso like the idea of someone that "knows how the system works" to help guide their kid.

Look at Providence this year. Their age was brought up as reason for their success many times. Yet 5 of their top 7 rotation players were transfers. They were able to keep Reeves and Watson around. The rest of their contributors - Bynum (St Joes). Horchler (UNF). Minaya (South Carolina). Croswell (Lasalle). Durham (Indiana). All transfers.

Providence had their best season in forever. Yet their top recruit decommitted because he is going to get more attractive NIL offers elsewhere.

If you come to watch college basketball for the camaraderie and loyalty and school spirit - I'd recommend a switch to another sport.

[prhoya]

Apr 13, 2022 8:45:45 GMT -5 thedragon said:

I'm by no means defending Ewing and his regime re:keeping players. Developing them I think is a much more interesting argument - as there are both successes and failures.

But this idea that we are choosing talent over retention. Or that dealing with players that have handlers/guardians is somehow a red flag is pretty shortsighted.

1300+ players in the portal. Schools like Uconn, which had a successful year last year, have lost 3 guys, at least 2 of which would have slotted into large playing time roles with who they have leaving. They currently have 5 scholarships available. And their team leader and best player was a Howard transfer.

Retention is a thing of the past in most instances. And with NIL money being offered around parents even moreso like the idea of someone that "knows how the system works" to help guide their kid.

Look at Providence this year. Their age was brought up as reason for their success many times. Yet 5 of their top 7 rotation players were transfers. They were able to keep Reeves and Watson around. The rest of their contributors - Bynum (St Joes). Horchler (UNF). Minaya (South Carolina). Croswell (Lasalle). Durham (Indiana). All transfers.

Providence had their best season in forever. Yet their top recruit decommitted because he is going to get more attractive NIL offers elsewhere.

If you come to watch college basketball for the camaraderie and loyalty and school spirit - I'd recommend a switch to another sport.

When trying to guess what works to be successful consistently in college basketball, we don’t have to look far. Just look at Wright and Villanova. The keys to their success are retention of talent, developing that talent to play within a successful scheme, underclassmen generally waiting their turn while upperclassmen get the most minutes, position and class balance, and filling the holes with one or two transfers. Of course, the head coach is responsible for everyone of them.

[thedragon]

Apr 13, 2022 8:54:42 GMT -5 prhoya said:

Apr 13, 2022 8:45:45 GMT -5 thedragon said:

I'm by no means defending Ewing and his regime re:keeping players. Developing them I think is a much more interesting argument - as there are both successes and failures.

But this idea that we are choosing talent over retention. Or that dealing with players that have handlers/guardians is somehow a red flag is pretty shortsighted.

1300+ players in the portal. Schools like Uconn, which had a successful year last year, have lost 3 guys, at least 2 of which would have slotted into large playing time roles with who they have leaving. They currently have 5 scholarships available. And their team leader and best player was a Howard transfer.

Retention is a thing of the past in most instances. And with NIL money being offered around parents even moreso like the idea of someone that "knows how the system works" to help guide their kid.

Look at Providence this year. Their age was brought up as reason for their success many times. Yet 5 of their top 7 rotation players were transfers. They were able to keep Reeves and Watson around. The rest of their contributors - Bynum (St Joes). Horchler (UNF). Minaya (South Carolina). Croswell (Lasalle). Durham (Indiana). All transfers.

Providence had their best season in forever. Yet their top recruit decommitted because he is going to get more attractive NIL offers elsewhere.

If you come to watch college basketball for the camaraderie and loyalty and school spirit - I'd recommend a switch to another sport.

When trying to guess what works to be successful consistently in college basketball, we don’t have to look far. Just look at Wright and Villanova. The keys to their success are retention of talent, developing that talent to play within a successful scheme, underclassmen generally waiting their turn while upperclassmen get the most minutes, position and class balance, and filling the holes with one or two transfers. Of course, the head coach is responsible for everyone of them.

Villanovas culture is just not something that is recreatable in this new paradigm. They established that culture pre- college free agency. And while maybe they will be able to hold on to that setup for a few more years - it's simply not realistic imo for us or anyone else to copy that blueprint anymore.

[TC]

Apr 13, 2022 10:20:38 GMT -5 thedragon said:

Villanovas culture is just not something that is recreatable in this new paradigm. They established that culture pre- college free agency. And while maybe they will be able to hold on to that setup for a few more years - it's simply not realistic imo for us or anyone else to copy that blueprint anymore.

Why? Providence is doing a reasonable approximation of it.

[thedragon]

Apr 13, 2022 10:21:25 GMT -5 TC said:

Apr 13, 2022 10:20:38 GMT -5 thedragon said:

Villanovas culture is just not something that is recreatable in this new paradigm. They established that culture pre- college free agency. And while maybe they will be able to hold on to that setup for a few more years - it's simply not realistic imo for us or anyone else to copy that blueprint anymore.

Why? Providence is doing a reasonable approximation of it.

If you read my prior post to the Nova one in this thread - I explained why I disagree with that. 5 of their 7 man rotation were transfers. All within this season or last. I do no think that's comparable to Nova at all.

[vv83]

Apr 13, 2022 8:54:42 GMT -5 prhoya said:

Apr 13, 2022 8:45:45 GMT -5 thedragon said:

I'm by no means defending Ewing and his regime re:keeping players. Developing them I think is a much more interesting argument - as there are both successes and failures.

But this idea that we are choosing talent over retention. Or that dealing with players that have handlers/guardians is somehow a red flag is pretty shortsighted.

1300+ players in the portal. Schools like Uconn, which had a successful year last year, have lost 3 guys, at least 2 of which would have slotted into large playing time roles with who they have leaving. They currently have 5 scholarships available. And their team leader and best player was a Howard transfer.

Retention is a thing of the past in most instances. And with NIL money being offered around parents even moreso like the idea of someone that "knows how the system works" to help guide their kid.

Look at Providence this year. Their age was brought up as reason for their success many times. Yet 5 of their top 7 rotation players were transfers. They were able to keep Reeves and Watson around. The rest of their contributors - Bynum (St Joes). Horchler (UNF). Minaya (South Carolina). Croswell (Lasalle). Durham (Indiana). All transfers.

Providence had their best season in forever. Yet their top recruit decommitted because he is going to get more attractive NIL offers elsewhere.

If you come to watch college basketball for the camaraderie and loyalty and school spirit - I'd recommend a switch to another sport.

When trying to guess what works to be successful consistently in college basketball, we don’t have to look far. Just look at Wright and Villanova. The keys to their success are retention of talent, developing that talent to play within a successful scheme, underclassmen generally waiting their turn while upperclassmen get the most minutes, position and class balance, and filling the holes with one or two transfers. Of course, the head coach is responsible for everyone of them.

Are there a lot of other schools having big time success operating like Villanova? My sense is that most schools that win big consistently depend more on transfers and short term (1-2 year) players as a big part of their core each season. It may be that Villanova is now actually the outlier among the top programs. Maybe their success is pretty difficult to replicate in the current environment. I think we would all like Georgetown to operate like Villanova - retain players, have them improve over time and step into starting roles as upperclassmen, with selective transfers to fill specific gaps for a particular season. But unless we get someone like Jay Wright to coach the team - I think it might be unrealistic to think we can do what Villanova does. And it seems pretty clear that Ewing is never going to operate successfully under the Villanova model

As long as Ewing is the coach - I think we are more likely to find some degree of success by focusing on building a "new" team each year with transfers and short term high school recruits that we don't expect to stay at Georgetown for more than two seasons. When Ewing is no longer coach - maybe we can bring in a coach who can operate like Wright. But I think we sometimes underrate how hard it is to do what Wright is doing, especially in the free transfer/NIL environment that we are now living in. The new model might be more like what Eric Musselman is finding success with at multiple schools - lots of strong transfers, with big roster turnover each season. Most of us would vastly prefer the Jay Wright approach, but the Musselman approach might be the more realistic path to fairly steady success for most schools in the current environment.

All this analysis obviously does not take the educational experience of the player into account. Schools being able to both win big consistently and graduate most of their players is a great goal, but it also seems like a pretty narrow path to thread these days. Right now we are doing neither.

[TC]

Apr 13, 2022 10:26:56 GMT -5 thedragon said:

Apr 13, 2022 10:21:25 GMT -5 TC said:

Why? Providence is doing a reasonable approximation of it.

If you read my prior post to the Nova one in this thread - I explained why I disagree with that. 5 of their 7 man rotation were transfers. All within this season or last. I do no think that's comparable to Nova at all.

That's kind of debatable though - two kids here took red shirts at Providence, most of the college time was at Providence :

Watson : 5 years at Providence
Durham : 1 year at Providence, 4 at Indiana
Bynum : 3 years at Providence, 1 at St. Joe's
Horchler : 3 years at Providence, 2 at North Florida
Reeves : 4 years at Providence
Minaya : 1 year at Providence, 4 at South Carolina
Croswell : 2 years at Providence, 2 at La Salle
Breed : 2 years at Providence
Goodine : 2 years at Providence, 1 at Syracuse
Fonts : 5 years at Providence

Bynum/Minaya are definitely mostly transfer-developed, but everyone else was at Providence longer than anywhere else, and I bet they graduate a lot more of these players.

[hoyaguy]

Apr 13, 2022 10:29:54 GMT -5 vv83 said:

Apr 13, 2022 8:54:42 GMT -5 prhoya said:

When trying to guess what works to be successful consistently in college basketball, we don’t have to look far. Just look at Wright and Villanova. The keys to their success are retention of talent, developing that talent to play within a successful scheme, underclassmen generally waiting their turn while upperclassmen get the most minutes, position and class balance, and filling the holes with one or two transfers. Of course, the head coach is responsible for everyone of them.

Are there a lot of other schools having big time success operating like Villanova? My sense is that most schools that win big consistently depend more on transfers and short term (1-2 year) players as a big part of their core each season. It may be that Villanova is now actually the outlier among the top programs. Maybe their success is pretty difficult to replicate in the current environment. I think we would all like Georgetown to operate like Villanova - retain players, have them improve over time and step into starting roles as upperclassmen, with selective transfers to fill specific gaps for a particular season. But unless we get someone like Jay Wright to coach the team - I think it might be unrealistic to think we can do what Villanova does. And it seems pretty clear that Ewing is never going to operate successfully under the Villanova model

As long as Ewing is the coach - I think we are more likely to find some degree of success by focusing on building a "new" team each year with transfers and short term high school recruits that we don't expect to stay at Georgetown for more than two seasons. When Ewing is no longer coach - maybe we can bring in a coach who can operate like Wright. But I think we sometimes underrate how hard it is to do what Wright is doing, especially in the free transfer/NIL environment that we are now living in. The new model might be more like what Eric Musselman is finding success with at multiple schools - lots of strong transfers, with big roster turnover each season. Most of us would vastly prefer the Jay Wright approach, but the Musselman approach might be the more realistic path to fairly steady success for most schools in the current environment.

All this analysis obviously does not take the educational experience of the player into account. Schools being able to both win big consistently and graduate most of their players is a great goal, but it also seems like a pretty narrow path to thread these days. Right now we are doing neither.

Hence Neptune will be high on many people's lists next season if he hasn't left Fordham already, but I don't want to beat a dead horse. Rebuilding every year seems like it'll be the path as long as Ewing is coach and it will be similar elsewhere. I don't mean this aggressively but these massive changes like free agency that makes exoduses the norm and other anomalies such as covid cancelling 2020 tournament collectively really helped Ewing out 

Murray is a huge get and hopefully can continue to grow and bring other players with him