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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Apr 9, 2019 8:04:14 GMT -5
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guru
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Post by guru on Apr 9, 2019 9:04:32 GMT -5
Hard to put too much stock in these quickfire takes on rankings for next season. Marquette is #2 on ESPN, #34 at The Athletic. The ESPN rankings clearly think the Big East is going to be a beast.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Apr 9, 2019 10:02:42 GMT -5
I think Tim Cluess (former St. John's player) of Iona would be a much better basketball hire. Not as "sexy" a hire as Hurley but a much much better coach... I wonder what would be better for the Big East? Hiring a former college All-American from the NYC metro area who has had head coaching success at his two previous stops - and by the way, hiring him away from a "Power Five" school that has football money. Or, hiring a 60-year old from the Metro Atlantic Athletic Conference whose previous head coaching experience came at LIU-Post and Suffolk Community College.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 9, 2019 10:09:48 GMT -5
Hard to put too much stock in these quickfire takes on rankings for next season. Marquette is #2 on ESPN, #34 at The Athletic. The ESPN rankings clearly think the Big East is going to be a beast. The Athletic has to be assuming Howard leaves, right? I don't understand how they could have them being worse than this year when they return their entire core. I think they're for sure top 10, but #2 is extremely aggressive. Not sure about that one.
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Hoyas4Ever
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Apr 9, 2019 10:28:17 GMT -5
The St. John's job is extremely difficult. You don't have a great facilities and campus life so they try and sell the city and MSG. Now they gotta start from scratch. That's a 4-5 year turnaround minimum for anyone outside of a coaching legend. You get to year 4 off a complete rebuild (Coach Lavin left absolutely no talent on the roster) reaching the tournament, with Mullin having a good core returning, finally recruited some depth, and the AD trips up the program 80% of the way to completing the rebuild. It's not as daunting as it may appear. St. John's isn't exactly a vacation spot but Seton Hall has even less than St. John's and they seem able to compete; and yes, it's easier to sell MSG to recruits than games in Newark with the upper half of the arena tarped off. St. John's enjoys the unusually loyal support of the local sports press and the largest alumni base on the conference, but it's a base that has been burned out by a quarter century of bad hires and poor leadership. Given that Hurley would be a short term hire, I'm not convinced that he's just another Steve Lavin-type choice at this point. The point of my post was not to figure out which was the $hittier program locale and facilities wise within the BIG EAST. But since you bought it up and used Seton Hall as your example. Let's look at what the Hall did when there Head Coach ran into some adversity 5 years ago when Coach Willard was fighting off a very public mutiny by the upperclassmen of his team. Many thought he wouldn't survive that season, his fourth at the New Jersey school. Seton Hall's AD could have washed his hands and moved off of Coach Willard in an effort to stabilize the program as the teams season completely flamed out in a very public and chaotic manner that ended with a mass exodus of players via transfer. No he stayed the course knowing that a full reboot of the program would set it back another five years meaning it could have been a decade without any measure of success in South Orange New Jersey. His patience was rewarded with the most greatest success the program has had since the late 1980's. Every program outside of maybe, maybe Villanova is a five year tear down and rebuild after a coaching change. Getting through four years of the rebuild, improving your record every season concluding with an NCAA Tournament appearance and then tearing it down again is just bad business. This move will set the St. John's program back in the long run and make the program a transit stop, a grand central terminal for college coaches as they use it to get to other jobs. Nothing is more important in a college basketball program then stability...
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Post by iheartdurenbros on Apr 9, 2019 10:42:49 GMT -5
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Post by practice on Apr 9, 2019 10:48:24 GMT -5
No surprise on Mullins -- 3 losing seasons in a row and then losing in the play-in game. His teams always had a bunch of talented players but never seemed to be cohesive units. He looked and acted disengaged -- and it was epitomized by the shot of him this season tying his shoe during a timeout while his assistant coach did the Xs and Os. He was able to recruit though.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Apr 9, 2019 10:49:17 GMT -5
Good article - interesting that Pitino is publicly declaring interest in the job. Obviously he's got serious baggage, but he'd certainly provide publicity to the Big East. I still think Hurley is a no-brainer, assuming he's interested, and Cragge wouldn't have moved on from Mullin unless he knew he had the guy he wanted ready to go.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Apr 9, 2019 10:50:59 GMT -5
No surprise on Mullins -- 3 losing seasons in a row and then losing in the play-in game. His teams always had a bunch of talented players but never seemed to be cohesive units. He looked and acted disengaged -- and it was epitomized by the shot of him this season tying his shoe during a timeout while his assistant coach did the Xs and Os. He was able to recruit though.The recruiting part isn't particularly accurate. The Abdelmissah guy that bailed and went to Nebraska did all the good recruiting. In fact, once he left last week, St. John's already had decommitments from its incoming JUCO point guard and the top 100 class of 2020 kid Tabor. So, if Mullin wasn't doing the in-game coaching, and he wasn't doing the recruiting, what exactly was he doing?
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Hoyas4Ever
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Apr 9, 2019 10:59:36 GMT -5
I think Tim Cluess (former St. John's player) of Iona would be a much better basketball hire. Not as "sexy" a hire as Hurley but a much much better coach... I wonder what would be better for the Big East? Hiring a former college All-American from the NYC metro area who has had head coaching success at his two previous stops - and by the way, hiring him away from a "Power Five" school that has football money. Or, hiring a 60-year old from the Metro Atlantic Athletic Conference whose previous head coaching experience came at LIU-Post and Suffolk Community College. Lol at how you painted this picture and tried to shape your narrative. Coach Cluess has eight 20 win seasons in his 9 years at Iona. 6 NCAA Tournament appearance, 5 conference tournament titles and 4 regular season conference titles. Never had a losing season. So he's a grinder and a winner who plays a really exciting style of play. Just as important, Coach Cluess would bring stability to St. John's. He's had opportunities to leave Iona for greener pastures but he's a New Yorker through and through. His family has really strong St. John's ties as not only did he play there but so did all three of his older brothers. Even with Coach Hurley's ties to the metro area, no one doubts he wouldn't bounce for a better Job the moment he can. The BIG EAST schools have to stop hiring these mercenary coaches and make stability and longer-term winning its priorities...
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Apr 9, 2019 11:04:20 GMT -5
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Hoyas4Ever
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Apr 9, 2019 11:09:10 GMT -5
No surprise on Mullins -- 3 losing seasons in a row and then losing in the play-in game. His teams always had a bunch of talented players but never seemed to be cohesive units. He looked and acted disengaged -- and it was epitomized by the shot of him this season tying his shoe during a timeout while his assistant coach did the Xs and Os. He was able to recruit though.The recruiting part isn't particularly accurate. The Abdelmissah guy that bailed and went to Nebraska did all the good recruiting. In fact, once he left last week, St. John's already had decommitments from its incoming JUCO point guard and the top 100 class of 2020 kid Tabor. So, if Mullin wasn't doing the in-game coaching, and he wasn't doing the recruiting, what exactly was he doing? The Juco PG Cam Mack decommited because of all the smoke surrounding Coach Mullins tenure. He even said that he would still be interested in going back their if Coach Mullin returned. Nate Tabor (2020 prospect) decommited after it was announced that Coach Mullin wouldn't be returning. Your playing really really loose with the facts....
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Apr 9, 2019 11:12:07 GMT -5
The recruiting part isn't particularly accurate. The Abdelmissah guy that bailed and went to Nebraska did all the good recruiting. In fact, once he left last week, St. John's already had decommitments from its incoming JUCO point guard and the top 100 class of 2020 kid Tabor. So, if Mullin wasn't doing the in-game coaching, and he wasn't doing the recruiting, what exactly was he doing? The Juco PG Cam Mack decommited because of all the smoke surrounding Coach Mullins tenure. He even said that he would still be interested in going back their if Coach Mullin returned. Nate Tabor (2020 prospect) decommited after it was announced that Coach Mullin wouldn't be returning. Your playing really really loose with the facts.... Did these kids decommit before Abdelmissah left? No they did not. Did they stay committed to Mullin once Abdelmissah was gone? No they did not. Those are the facts. Not sure how anybody could look at Mullin's tenure at St. John's, along with losing his top recruiting assistant and two top commitments, and say - yeah, let's keep him and extend his contract right now. It's a no-brainer to upgrade from where Mullin currently has the program to a guy like Hurley, if Hurley wants the job. Complete 100% no-brainer.
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Hoyas4Ever
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Apr 9, 2019 11:24:50 GMT -5
The Juco PG Cam Mack decommited because of all the smoke surrounding Coach Mullins tenure. He even said that he would still be interested in going back their if Coach Mullin returned. Nate Tabor (2020 prospect) decommited after it was announced that Coach Mullin wouldn't be returning. Your playing really really loose with the facts.... Did these kids decommit before Abdelmissah left? No they did not. Did they stay committed to Mullin once Abdelmissah was gone? No they did not. Those are the facts. Not sure how anybody could look at Mullin's tenure at St. John's, along with losing his top recruiting assistant and two top commitments, and say - yeah, let's keep him and extend his contract right now. It's a no-brainer to upgrade from where Mullin currently has the program to a guy like Hurley, if Hurley wants the job. Complete 100% no-brainer. Do your homework and read up on the subject. Cam Mack said in articles he was decommitting because of all the chaos and smoke regarding Coach Mullins tenure. He didn't immediately decommit after Abdelmissah left for Iowa State. He was still committed but all the noise surrounding Coach Mullin forced his hand (his words). He had to give himself the best opportunity to find a college home with two months to go before basketball players report for the first session of summer school and conditioning around the country. Cam Mack also said he would absolutely consider going back to St. John's if Coach Mullin remained. Tabor also decommited last night after it was widely announced by multiple news outlets that Coach Mullin was resigning. Tabor didn't decommit after Coach Abdelmissah left for Iowa State. Those are the facts...
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mdtd
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Post by mdtd on Apr 9, 2019 14:24:50 GMT -5
I think Tim Cluess (former St. John's player) of Iona would be a much better basketball hire. Not as "sexy" a hire as Hurley but a much much better coach... I wonder what would be better for the Big East? Hiring a former college All-American from the NYC metro area who has had head coaching success at his two previous stops - and by the way, hiring him away from a "Power Five" school that has football money. Or, hiring a 60-year old from the Metro Atlantic Athletic Conference whose previous head coaching experience came at LIU-Post and Suffolk Community College. That's a very short-sighted way to look at it. The best hire is probably a hire which would make St. John's be the best team that they can. Cluess is a great coach who has been to the last 4 NCAA tournaments. Hurley has also done well, but his teams have faded off towards conference play in the last two years. Sure, he was an excellent player, but that doesn't make you an excellent coach, just look at Mullin. I think the Hurley hire would be a great hire, but it's incredibly short-sighted to look just from the conference perspective. Jay Wright was hired from the America East, does that make him a bad hire? Cluess deserves consideration for sure. Aside from his first year at Iona, Cluess has been to either the NCAA or the NIT in every single one of his seasons there. Wouldn't be a bad hire in the slightest.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Apr 9, 2019 14:41:34 GMT -5
Vitamin Water owner ready to pony up cash for a coach?
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Hoyas4Ever
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Apr 9, 2019 14:58:59 GMT -5
Vitamin Water owner ready to pony up cash for a coach? This smells like a hit/hatchet job by the new AD that was in the works for a while and only a tournament run could have preempted.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Apr 9, 2019 15:11:53 GMT -5
Vitamin Water owner ready to pony up cash for a coach? This smells like a hit/hatchet job by the new AD that was in the works for a while and only a tournament run could have preempted. If you're the AD at St. John's, you're going to sink or swim based on the basketball program. One year into the gig, you're staring at Chris Mullin as your head coach having just lost his main recruiter and top two recruits. Mullin in his four years hasn't impressed anybody as an in-game coach. Despite getting off to a great start this season, against a relatively weak out-of-conference schedule, the Red Storm stumble home to barely make the NCAA Tournament and then lose a play-in game that wasn't particularly close. Why in the world, as Athletic Director at St. John's, would you hitch your wagon to Chris Mullin? This doesn't smell like a hatchet job at all. It smells like Mullin going to the administration and trying to get a contract extension, the AD saying "no way, you've got a lot more to prove before you get an extension", and Mullin not liking the response. Which is Mullin's right, but for the life of me, I can't understand how anybody would think the AD's acting in anything but an extremely rational fashion.
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njhoya78
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Post by njhoya78 on Apr 9, 2019 15:14:23 GMT -5
It's official. St. John's has released a statement by Mullin, which says that he has "stepped down" as head coach.
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hoyaboya
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Post by hoyaboya on Apr 9, 2019 15:15:23 GMT -5
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