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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on May 27, 2020 11:49:15 GMT -5
I'll go back to my original premise, I am fine if he goes to LSU. One and done centers aren't a way to win big in the NCAA and that is what we care about. Keep developing the kids we have, bring in Mutombo hopefully and build out that '21 class.
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seaweed
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Post by seaweed on May 27, 2020 11:54:33 GMT -5
3 rapid-fire crystal ball predictions for L$U this morning. I don't think we'll get this kid, but it'd be fun to watch him for a year. He may get paid more for 1 year at LSU than he would in the G league!!!!! Why ‘may’? Seems clearly certain to me
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SDHoya
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Post by SDHoya on May 27, 2020 12:02:11 GMT -5
You would think he would go G League Select. Even if any team lands him, G league select is still an option Hope we get him but not gonna worry about it till I see him on the floor if we have a season. Do kids have to be HS grads in order to be part of the G League Select, or is there a minimum age? Honest question--could say, a 17 year old HS junior drop out and go G League before his senior year if hype is high enough? Or a 18/19 year old with academic issues who does not graduate, or just a kid who is old for his grade and hasn't graduated yet?
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Hoyas4Ever
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
A Wise Man Once Told Me Don't Argue With Fools....
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on May 27, 2020 13:49:36 GMT -5
I know Will Wade & L$U don't really care about the rules but their scholarship situation is a mess already at 15 for next season including 6 freshman (2 Centers) & 2 transfers (LeBlanc & Shareef O'Neal). Adding Cisse would give L$U 16 scholarship players for next season.
All that to say, expect some players to be shown the door...
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mdtd
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,567
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Post by mdtd on May 27, 2020 14:29:52 GMT -5
I know Will Wade & L$U don't really care about the rules but their scholarship situation is a mess already at 15 for next season including 6 freshman (2 Centers) & 2 transfers (LeBlanc & Shareef O'Neal). Adding Cisse would give L$U 16 scholarship players for next season. All that to say, expect some players to be shown the door... Keep in mind that they have four kids who have declared for the draft, which has not yet been accounted for by Verbal Commits's scholarship chart. Three are retaining their college eligibility from what I've found, though.
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Hoyas4Ever
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A Wise Man Once Told Me Don't Argue With Fools....
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on May 27, 2020 14:46:12 GMT -5
I know Will Wade & L$U don't really care about the rules but their scholarship situation is a mess already at 15 for next season including 6 freshman (2 Centers) & 2 transfers (LeBlanc & Shareef O'Neal). Adding Cisse would give L$U 16 scholarship players for next season. All that to say, expect some players to be shown the door... Keep in mind that they have four kids who have declared for the draft, which has not yet been accounted for by Verbal Commits's scholarship chart. Three are retaining their college eligibility from what I've found, though. I was aware of the three retaining eligibility. I know the deadline to declare if your staying in the draft or not has been pushed back but at this point in the process, most players have gotten feed back and have an idea what they are going to do. I do expect some players to be taking a pay cut and forced out/leaving L$U for the G-League, overseas, or another D1 program...
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Post by professorhoya on May 27, 2020 16:05:59 GMT -5
You would think he would go G League Select. Even if any team lands him, G league select is still an option Hope we get him but not gonna worry about it till I see him on the floor if we have a season. Do kids have to be HS grads in order to be part of the G League Select, or is there a minimum age? Honest question--could say, a 17 year old HS junior drop out and go G League before his senior year if hype is high enough? Or a 18/19 year old with academic issues who does not graduate, or just a kid who is old for his grade and hasn't graduated yet? You know I'm not sure. Although it says G League Select/Pathway kids earn a full scholarship in a partnership with Arizona State (ASU)
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mdtd
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Post by mdtd on May 27, 2020 17:08:59 GMT -5
Keep in mind that they have four kids who have declared for the draft, which has not yet been accounted for by Verbal Commits's scholarship chart. Three are retaining their college eligibility from what I've found, though. I was aware of the three retaining eligibility. I know the deadline to declare if your staying in the draft or not has been pushed back but at this point in the process, most players have gotten feed back and have an idea what they are going to do. I do expect some players to be taking a pay cut and forced out/leaving L$U for the G-League, overseas, or another D1 program... Same thing at Tech, too with Mac's announcement. They are now two scholarships over (one once Ramsey leaves) I believe, and I don't think that anyone else is in the draft. That one is even more puzzling to me.
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hoyazeke
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Post by hoyazeke on May 27, 2020 18:14:56 GMT -5
Take L$U paying Cisse out of the equation, is freshman Cisse playing over sophomore Wahab? I don't think so and I don't think they can play together.
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dense
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Post by dense on May 27, 2020 18:47:26 GMT -5
Take L$U paying Cisse out of the equation, is freshman Cisse playing over sophomore Wahab? I don't think so and I don't think they can play together. Why can't they? Cisse played with Kofi Cockburn for 2 years and he has less ability to move then Wahab.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 27, 2020 18:59:46 GMT -5
Take L$U paying Cisse out of the equation, is freshman Cisse playing over sophomore Wahab? I don't think so and I don't think they can play together. Yes - he's really a C. No - he's probably not starting ahead of Wahab. But yes, he's starting. He's too talented not to -- especially on this team. He'd play with Wahab & Pickett in a big frontcourt lineup. Why? Because... are you really gonna start Bile or Sibley ahead of him? They might be more traditional college forwards, but these guys aren't Otto or even Ike at this point. It's not like we're breaking up the '86 Celtics frontcourt to fit an admittedly square peg. Also - he and Wahab wouldn't play much more than 25 mins on most nights. That means you could stagger them for a good chunk of the game.
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mdtd
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Post by mdtd on May 27, 2020 19:22:26 GMT -5
Take L$U paying Cisse out of the equation, is freshman Cisse playing over sophomore Wahab? I don't think so and I don't think they can play together. I'd think they would start together, that being said if I had to choose to start one it's Cisse. And if this is a question of whether or not I'd want Cisse on the team, the answer is an emphatic yes.
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Hoyas4Ever
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A Wise Man Once Told Me Don't Argue With Fools....
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on May 27, 2020 21:05:14 GMT -5
I was aware of the three retaining eligibility. I know the deadline to declare if your staying in the draft or not has been pushed back but at this point in the process, most players have gotten feed back and have an idea what they are going to do. I do expect some players to be taking a pay cut and forced out/leaving L$U for the G-League, overseas, or another D1 program... Same thing at Tech, too with Mac's announcement. They are now two scholarships over (one once Ramsey leaves) I believe, and I don't think that anyone else is in the draft. That one is even more puzzling to me. Yeah Texas Tech is now 2 over the limit and in heavy pursuit of Jonathan Kuminga. I have always hated this part of college basketball recruiting where schools go way over the limit of allowable scholarships and then push some kid(s) out of the program in June or July with little to know heads up or options... The head coach has his exit meetings with individual members of the team in mid April. The young man can be told we are excited about your progress and looking forward to next season. That young man goes home thinking/planning for next season only to have there scholarship pulled late in the process so that the program can bring in a bigger fish. I've seen where a player is on campus going to summer school and working out with the team and gets called in the office to let him know he's had his scolly pulled. The ugly side of college recruiting. Very Very slimy head coaches out there...
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hoyazeke
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Post by hoyazeke on May 28, 2020 3:05:35 GMT -5
Take L$U paying Cisse out of the equation, is freshman Cisse playing over sophomore Wahab? I don't think so and I don't think they can play together. Why can't they? Cisse played with Kofi Cockburn for 2 years and he has less ability to move then Wahab. In HS. You can't get away with playing two back to the basket players at the same time anymore. I'll take Cisse in a heartbeat but I just don't see why a player like him would choose GTown with Wahab already being here.
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turbohoya
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Post by turbohoya on May 28, 2020 7:49:40 GMT -5
Same thing at Tech, too with Mac's announcement. They are now two scholarships over (one once Ramsey leaves) I believe, and I don't think that anyone else is in the draft. That one is even more puzzling to me. Yeah Texas Tech is now 2 over the limit and in heavy pursuit of Jonathan Kuminga. I have always hated this part of college basketball recruiting where schools go way over the limit of allowable scholarships and then push some kid(s) out of the program in June or July with little to know heads up or options... The head coach has his exit meetings with individual members of the team in mid April. The young man can be told we are excited about your progress and looking forward to next season. That young man goes home thinking/planning for next season only to have there scholarship pulled late in the process so that the program can bring in a bigger fish. I've seen where a player is on campus going to summer school and working out with the team and gets called in the office to let him know he's had his scolly pulled. The ugly side of college recruiting. Very Very slimy head coaches out there... While I 100% agree that this behavior is slimy, as a player do you not know that something like this is more likely to happen to you if you go to school X vs. school Y? Coaches must have built a track record on this and their reputation must, at this point, be making the rounds no? Also, you want to play at Big Time U but you know you are probably on the back end of the talent level, you know that your schollie may get pulled by that ty coach you chose, no? Had you gone to a mid-major you would be the star, no schollie pull but you don't get to play with the best... I guess all I am saying is that this type of behavior is not a secret, and it's more likely to happen to kids who are marginal talents on their team... Maybe, sometime, the kids know and they still want to see what and SEC school or an ACC one looks like from the inside? Would I like to see the NCAA put a time limit on this? sure, and if there is one, it seems it's not early enough... but I am also not totally convinced that these kids are always clueless about what they are getting themselves into and that, while young, they are old enough to make decisions - even bad ones sometimes, like the rest of us really
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Post by RockawayHoya on May 28, 2020 10:50:33 GMT -5
Yeah Texas Tech is now 2 over the limit and in heavy pursuit of Jonathan Kuminga. I have always hated this part of college basketball recruiting where schools go way over the limit of allowable scholarships and then push some kid(s) out of the program in June or July with little to know heads up or options... The head coach has his exit meetings with individual members of the team in mid April. The young man can be told we are excited about your progress and looking forward to next season. That young man goes home thinking/planning for next season only to have there scholarship pulled late in the process so that the program can bring in a bigger fish. I've seen where a player is on campus going to summer school and working out with the team and gets called in the office to let him know he's had his scolly pulled. The ugly side of college recruiting. Very Very slimy head coaches out there... While I 100% agree that this behavior is slimy, as a player do you not know that something like this is more likely to happen to you if you go to school X vs. school Y? Coaches must have built a track record on this and their reputation must, at this point, be making the rounds no? Also, you want to play at Big Time U but you know you are probably on the back end of the talent level, you know that your schollie may get pulled by that ty coach you chose, no? Had you gone to a mid-major you would be the star, no schollie pull but you don't get to play with the best... I guess all I am saying is that this type of behavior is not a secret, and it's more likely to happen to kids who are marginal talents on their team... Maybe, sometime, the kids know and they still want to see what and SEC school or an ACC one looks like from the inside? Would I like to see the NCAA put a time limit on this? sure, and if there is one, it seems it's not early enough... but I am also not totally convinced that these kids are always clueless about what they are getting themselves into and that, while young, they are old enough to make decisions - even bad ones sometimes, like the rest of us really I don't disagree that pulling the rug out from a kid's feet in the summer is a slimy play that I wouldn't want our program to resort to like many other programs have shown. But, I'm going to play devil's advocate for a second here. Not pointing at anyone specifically either on the current roster or in the past, but there have definitely been kids who have not put in the work once they've gotten on campus. Should the staff be forced to continue to watch these kids not develop (or even worse, regress) and not try to improve the program by taking on potentially more talented kids who are ready to work? I'm not certain that should be the case 100% of the time. I understand that this scenario usually impacts those on the back end of the talent pool and I am empathetic for those in that situation who are being unexpectedly pushed out for the flavor of the week, but I would hope there's a fair amount of college coaches out there who will recognize the difference between a less talented kid who is still putting in max effort vs. a more talented kid who is wasting that talent and not helping the team. I am not 100% against the idea of letting the latter go if there's a better option. The program has a level of responsibility to the player, but the player also has a level of responsibility to the program as well. Truth be told, I would much rather we be in a position where we can pick and choose among talented options as opposed to finding anybody to fill some schollies.
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hoyainla
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Suspended
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Post by hoyainla on May 28, 2020 12:06:38 GMT -5
While I 100% agree that this behavior is slimy, as a player do you not know that something like this is more likely to happen to you if you go to school X vs. school Y? Coaches must have built a track record on this and their reputation must, at this point, be making the rounds no? Also, you want to play at Big Time U but you know you are probably on the back end of the talent level, you know that your schollie may get pulled by that ty coach you chose, no? Had you gone to a mid-major you would be the star, no schollie pull but you don't get to play with the best... I guess all I am saying is that this type of behavior is not a secret, and it's more likely to happen to kids who are marginal talents on their team... Maybe, sometime, the kids know and they still want to see what and SEC school or an ACC one looks like from the inside? Would I like to see the NCAA put a time limit on this? sure, and if there is one, it seems it's not early enough... but I am also not totally convinced that these kids are always clueless about what they are getting themselves into and that, while young, they are old enough to make decisions - even bad ones sometimes, like the rest of us really I don't disagree that pulling the rug out from a kid's feet in the summer is a slimy play that I wouldn't want our program to resort to like many other programs have shown. It's "likely" already happened here. If the players that are getting pushed out get a waiver then I have no problem with it as players have taken control of their own situations as well.
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Post by ColumbiaHeightsHoya on May 28, 2020 12:15:09 GMT -5
I wonder how a four star recruit like Darius Days feels about a signing like this (if the kid goes to LSU)? They got Watford last year and if they get this kid this year the kid is looking at year 3 in baton rouge before seeing starters minutes. That also assumes they don't bring in the next kid like him the following year. I really hate what is happening in the college landscape with kids not even sticking with a program for a couple years. I really hope Malcolm Wilson carves out a role and can thrive by his junior year as it is the old school development plan.
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mdtd
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
Posts: 1,567
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Post by mdtd on May 28, 2020 13:07:20 GMT -5
While I 100% agree that this behavior is slimy, as a player do you not know that something like this is more likely to happen to you if you go to school X vs. school Y? Coaches must have built a track record on this and their reputation must, at this point, be making the rounds no? Also, you want to play at Big Time U but you know you are probably on the back end of the talent level, you know that your schollie may get pulled by that ty coach you chose, no? Had you gone to a mid-major you would be the star, no schollie pull but you don't get to play with the best... I guess all I am saying is that this type of behavior is not a secret, and it's more likely to happen to kids who are marginal talents on their team... Maybe, sometime, the kids know and they still want to see what and SEC school or an ACC one looks like from the inside? Would I like to see the NCAA put a time limit on this? sure, and if there is one, it seems it's not early enough... but I am also not totally convinced that these kids are always clueless about what they are getting themselves into and that, while young, they are old enough to make decisions - even bad ones sometimes, like the rest of us really I don't disagree that pulling the rug out from a kid's feet in the summer is a slimy play that I wouldn't want our program to resort to like many other programs have shown. But, I'm going to play devil's advocate for a second here. Not pointing at anyone specifically either on the current roster or in the past, but there have definitely been kids who have not put in the work once they've gotten on campus. Should the staff be forced to continue to watch these kids not develop (or even worse, regress) and not try to improve the program by taking on potentially more talented kids who are ready to work? I'm not certain that should be the case 100% of the time. I understand that this scenario usually impacts those on the back end of the talent pool and I am empathetic for those in that situation who are being unexpectedly pushed out for the flavor of the week, but I would hope there's a fair amount of college coaches out there who will recognize the difference between a less talented kid who is still putting in max effort vs. a more talented kid who is wasting that talent and not helping the team. I am not 100% against the idea of letting the latter go if there's a better option. The program has a level of responsibility to the player, but the player also has a level of responsibility to the program as well. Truth be told, I would much rather we be in a position where we can pick and choose among talented options as opposed to finding anybody to fill some schollies. The big thing to me was the April vs July idea. If a scholarship is pulled in April, the player has many options to transfer to. In July, teams are essentially done adding players and he has almost nowhere to go. That kid was lied to by his head coach and betrayed and now ends up stuck in the portal, hoping someone who has an open scholarship goes after him. For example with Texas Tech, if Ramsey goes pro as we expect, they are still one scholarship over the limit. I've seen two potential outcomes for them to get back too 13. A. Ex Walk-on Avery Benson, who received a scholarship last year, will get his scholarship pulled (if he was offered one for the next season) and that's how they get down to 13 or B. A player will be forced to transfer, with limited options. That player would have almost nowhere to go.
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Post by RockawayHoya on May 28, 2020 16:35:48 GMT -5
I don't disagree that pulling the rug out from a kid's feet in the summer is a slimy play that I wouldn't want our program to resort to like many other programs have shown. But, I'm going to play devil's advocate for a second here. Not pointing at anyone specifically either on the current roster or in the past, but there have definitely been kids who have not put in the work once they've gotten on campus. Should the staff be forced to continue to watch these kids not develop (or even worse, regress) and not try to improve the program by taking on potentially more talented kids who are ready to work? I'm not certain that should be the case 100% of the time. I understand that this scenario usually impacts those on the back end of the talent pool and I am empathetic for those in that situation who are being unexpectedly pushed out for the flavor of the week, but I would hope there's a fair amount of college coaches out there who will recognize the difference between a less talented kid who is still putting in max effort vs. a more talented kid who is wasting that talent and not helping the team. I am not 100% against the idea of letting the latter go if there's a better option. The program has a level of responsibility to the player, but the player also has a level of responsibility to the program as well. Truth be told, I would much rather we be in a position where we can pick and choose among talented options as opposed to finding anybody to fill some schollies. The big thing to me was the April vs July idea. If a scholarship is pulled in April, the player has many options to transfer to. In July, teams are essentially done adding players and he has almost nowhere to go. That kid was lied to by his head coach and betrayed and now ends up stuck in the portal, hoping someone who has an open scholarship goes after him. For example with Texas Tech, if Ramsey goes pro as we expect, they are still one scholarship over the limit. I've seen two potential outcomes for them to get back too 13. A. Ex Walk-on Avery Benson, who received a scholarship last year, will get his scholarship pulled (if he was offered one for the next season) and that's how they get down to 13 or B. A player will be forced to transfer, with limited options. That player would have almost nowhere to go. Agreed, the timing sucks for sure. I think though, with new players entering the transfer portal and rosters in more flux than ever, that kids who end up getting the boot over the summer will have more options for landing spots than they may have in previous years.
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