paranoia2
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
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Post by paranoia2 on Mar 18, 2020 13:10:54 GMT -5
Tim w be a FORCE. Lot of upside. Give him some time.
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Hoyas4Ever
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
A Wise Man Once Told Me Don't Argue With Fools....
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Post by Hoyas4Ever on Jun 7, 2020 22:51:42 GMT -5
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dense
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by dense on Jun 7, 2020 22:55:32 GMT -5
Of all the returning players, he is the one I am most interested in seeing in year 2. It seemed when he was forced into action things were moving too fast for him but you could see that he can really control a game just by his presence on the defensive end in that Butler game at Butler.
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Post by michaelgrahmstylie on Jun 8, 2020 1:09:07 GMT -5
Happy birthday, Timothy!
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dchoya72
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 3,488
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Post by dchoya72 on Jun 8, 2020 4:01:48 GMT -5
Happy Birthday Timothy. I hope you have adjusted and found a good home in DC. You were a pleasant surprise last year for the Hoyas. You came in and had a wonderful impact. We/I am looking for great things in the upcoming years. Do your thang!
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s4hoyas
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by s4hoyas on Jun 8, 2020 8:31:10 GMT -5
Happy Bday, Timothy!...Keep on workin'...
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Jun 8, 2020 22:46:57 GMT -5
Okay you had your one day off to celebrate. Now work twice as hard tomorrow!đ
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LCPolo18
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,406
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Post by LCPolo18 on Jun 8, 2020 23:02:46 GMT -5
Okay you had your one day off to celebrate. Now work twice as hard tomorrow!đ Even better, he was running the Exorcist Stairs the morning of his birthday! http://instagram.com/p/CBI2vGXpZxm
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prhoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by prhoya on Jun 8, 2020 23:18:02 GMT -5
Okay you had your one day off to celebrate. Now work twice as hard tomorrow!đ Even better, he was running the Exorcist Stairs the morning of his birthday! http://instagr.am/p/CBI2vGXpZxm No đ· ?
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LCPolo18
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by LCPolo18 on Jun 12, 2020 12:56:32 GMT -5
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MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by MCIGuy on Aug 14, 2020 18:43:30 GMT -5
These are the two points that really caught me off guard. First off, in fouls per 40, it shows how often a player fouls. Having 7.1 fouls per 40 means that Tim would have five fouls in 28.2 minutes of play. He fouls a lot, as most freshman bigs do. That's all that says. Per 40 in this case makes sense. If we were comparing the points of Jaden Robinson to Jagan Mosely and to say that Jaden was as good of a scorer since their numbers were so close, then it would be used wrong. But in this case, it makes sense to me. Most players don't foul out of games. It just doesn't happen that often considering the ratio or percentages of all the guys who get on the court. This includes starters. This also includes the players who start at the five, historically the most foul-prone position in basketball before this modern era of stretch five came about. In college and the pros a fan can watch an entire week of games involving their teams without witnessing any player from their team or the opponents teams picking up that fifth or sixth foul respectively. So while fouling out does happen, its occurrence rate is at a very low percentage. The lack of fouling out can be the result of a coach protecting a player by pulling him off the court for stretches or it may occur at the college level by teams switching to a zone to help keep a player on the floor once he has accumulated fouls. But more often from my vantage point a player keeps from fouling out by changing up what he is doing on the floor. As I see it MOST players who pick up two quick fouls in a first half or a third foul early in the second half, tend to wise up and adjust in a way to stay on the court. Perhaps they stop reaching, maybe they don't buy the fake the second time around, possibly they start moving their feet better. Just as likely they will play 'smarter" and think things through a bit more or they could just as easily come to a realization of how the refs are calling the game and base their aggression on defense going forward on that. In other words they adapt, they adjust to keep themselves from fouling out Not all the time of course, but the majority of the time. This is why I don't buy into the Per 40 because it does not, it cannot, take those scenarios into consideration. Per 40s create an average off of a hypothetical. That is foolish considering it would be tough for even the best of players to be able to display the same level of consistency over a stretch of that time. If a player averaged 15 rebounds in 30 minutes of play (five per every ten minutes) would that mean they would average 20 if they were on the court all 40? No, because they may likely not have the gas to keep up such a pace if playing every minute of a game. Per 40s don't factor in fatigue or adjustment or better awareness. It just looks at numbers and extrapolates predictions and outcomes. Players can be more careless with the ball or more careless in their fouling in the first stretch of a game only to be more careful on both fronts when the game is on the line. That is a human factor these stats have no room for. In the case of that backup point guard who may be committing those turnovers or that second off the bench big who picks up a little under 2 fouls in a little under 10 minutes per game, there may not be extra stretch of time given to prove that they won't turn over the ball in crunch time or that they won't pick up another two silly fouls down the stretch. When Ighoefe gets on the court he may feel like he is playing with house money. He may do riskier things, he may feel he can afford to pick up a quick foul or two because he is not the primary big man that his team is counting on. So he can afford to be careless at first. Then again he could be feeling his way initially and getting a sense of how the game is being called and the importance of staying on the floor if needed. Which means its not out of the real of possibility that if he got another 15 to 20 minutes he could calm down, think things through better and stop the fouling. The alternative though could very well be that Ighoefe is a foul-prone big who can't adjust to cutting down on penalties even he was given the extra minutes. In that case the Per 40 Minutes stats would indeed be very telling. We just can't know that yet. I have argued that part of the problem with him is that he didnât play enough, especially early on, to get better acclimated to the level of competition and coaching he faced. People on this board may disagree but I believe players can be taught what to do in practice for an eternity but the polish doesnât come until they are in actual game situations on the court. Just one man's opinion.
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SirSaxa
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by SirSaxa on Aug 14, 2020 22:10:24 GMT -5
I believe players can be taught what to do in practice for an eternity but the polish doesnât come until they are in actual game situations on the court. Completely agree with this point MCI. Also, re: fouls. Didn't Q foul like crazy early in the season? Nerves? speed of game? finding his way? Whatever the case, with additional coaching and time on the court Wahab became a surprisingly effective replacement for Omer when he went down with injury. My impression of those last games was the Hoyas got better D out of the 5 with Wahab than GU had in many a year. And... Wahab also held his own on the offensive end. I think he is going to be a much improved 5 man when the Hoyas finally get to return to the court for real. Didn't mean to hijack Tim's thread. My point was - Yes, Timmy did foul a lot. But so did Q. With more PT, Q got it under control. No reason to think TI won't be able to do the same.
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MCIGuy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
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Post by MCIGuy on Aug 14, 2020 23:16:23 GMT -5
You didn't hijack it all. You simply beat me to the punch in referencing Q and his foul numbers in one of my to-be follow-up posts. Thanks for giving your take.
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Post by FrazierFanatic on Aug 15, 2020 8:12:41 GMT -5
Good points. The fact is that pretty much every freshman big man who has to play a lot of minutes is going to have foul issues; they are adapting to the speed of the college game, and also to playing against other talented and athletic big men every night, something they don't face often in high school.
If any coach can teach an athletic big man to harness his ability and play intimidating defense without fouling, it is the current head Hoya.
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Post by HometownHoya on Aug 15, 2020 11:31:06 GMT -5
I had mentioned it in the Mourning thread but your 3rd big is honestly there for the 5 fouls, rebounds, and maybe some putbacks. Tim did that last year effectively. As the 2nd big this next year, I think we see the fouls come down and the low post moves go up.
Qudus and Tim are a formidable duo at the 5 and if Malcom can contribute in 20/21, Patrick will have a lot of flexibility with his centers.
This may also belong in a defense focused thread but we saw both Yurt and Jessie play soft on defense to save themselves for offense. With the upcoming season's team, our bigs will be able to commit to defense without worry about handicapping the team on offense if they're not out there. The hard hedge by the C is more effective the harder the C can go. I am cautiously optimistic about seeing defensive improvement this year solely due to the defensive quality of our bigs.
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dchoya72
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
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Post by dchoya72 on Aug 15, 2020 14:27:48 GMT -5
Such a big difference between practices and scrimmages. The real game speed,the desire to please and not makes mistakes--all lead to mistakes, overcome by experience and talent. Overcoming mental mistakes can be painful, but it is part of the process. Tim has the widest reach I think I have ever seen. You can't teach height or reach. He is an asset!
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mdtd
Golden Hoya (over 1000 posts)
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Post by mdtd on Aug 15, 2020 23:02:57 GMT -5
These are the two points that really caught me off guard. First off, in fouls per 40, it shows how often a player fouls. Having 7.1 fouls per 40 means that Tim would have five fouls in 28.2 minutes of play. He fouls a lot, as most freshman bigs do. That's all that says. Per 40 in this case makes sense. If we were comparing the points of Jaden Robinson to Jagan Mosely and to say that Jaden was as good of a scorer since their numbers were so close, then it would be used wrong. But in this case, it makes sense to me. As I see it MOST players who pick up two quick fouls in a first half or a third foul early in the second half, tend to wise up and adjust in a way to stay on the court. Perhaps they stop reaching, maybe they don't buy the fake the second time around, possibly they start moving their feet better. Just as likely they will play 'smarter" and think things through a bit more or they could just as easily come to a realization of how the refs are calling the game and base their aggression on defense going forward on that. In other words they adapt, they adjust to keep themselves from fouling out Not all the time of course, but the majority of the time. When Ighoefe gets on the court he may feel like he is playing with house money. He may do riskier things, he may feel he can afford to pick up a quick foul or two because he is not the primary big man that his team is counting on. So he can afford to be careless at first. Then again he could be feeling his way initially and getting a sense of how the game is being called and the importance of staying on the floor if needed. Which means its not out of the real of possibility that if he got another 15 to 20 minutes he could calm down, think things through better and stop the fouling. The alternative though could very well be that Ighoefe is a foul-prone big who can't adjust to cutting down on penalties even he was given the extra minutes. In that case the Per 40 Minutes stats would indeed be very telling. We just can't know that yet. I have argued that part of the problem with him is that he didnât play enough, especially early on, to get better acclimated to the level of competition and coaching he faced. People on this board may disagree but I believe players can be taught what to do in practice for an eternity but the polish doesnât come until they are in actual game situations on the court. Just one man's opinion. I respect your opinion and generally agree with most of what you said here. I think practice time helps more with things like getting your moves right and I think most development happens in practice personally, which may not be the common take, but I see both sides for sure, For some guys going against your teammates and gus you see every day is different from guys you don't know or see daily. The only thing here is some guys wise up and play smarter while others just play really soft and just stop playing defense, but that doesn't seem like something Tim would do IMO. From my impression, he'd rather foul out then play sift, which is going to be good for this team. This team will need an enforcer or two. I'm excited for his potential. But, I still think he's got a lot to learn.
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Aug 15, 2020 23:40:43 GMT -5
This should be obvious, but as with any stat, you need to examine it in context, and for what it's worth. For example, fouls committed per 40 minutes, is simply a tool in demonstrating how often a guy fouls on average. That's all. I mean, what about batting average in baseball? If you average .333 that doesn't mean you go 1/3 every game, it's just a tool demonstrating, on average, how often a guy gets a base hit. It's not even the best stat for evaluating offense in baseball, but it can still be informative.
Clearly, Tim's stats are based on a small sample size. So, all stats have to be taken with a grain of salt. But again, it doesn't mean they are totally useless either. What Tim's stats show is he fouled a fair amount. So, if I am the staff, I am using that as a tool to try to teach Tim to foul less--maybe look at film to see why he fouled, and what can be cleaned up.
The fact is, big men foul a lot, and they usually get better with time. But, it can still be telling. For example, Trey Mourning's rates were 9.9, 8.9, then 5.0. So, clearly he improved, but it does tell you he still fouled at a high rate his whole career.
As far as guys fouling out, Ewing pulls guys pretty quickly on fouls, as do most coaches. That's the main reason guys do not foul out. Personally, I think if a guy is our best player at that position (like Wahab), we need them to be in the game as long as possible. And again, that's where FC/40 is a useful stat. Of course, no big men are likely to play 40 minutes, but we DO want our best guys to play as much as they can, and if they are committing early fouls, that's just not going to happen.
Lastly, one of the ways guys avoid fouling out once they do have 4 fouls is to effectively cede ground on defense. That's not ideal, either.
But yeah, I would agree that we largely don't know much on Ighoefe because he did not play a ton last year. But, Ewing did see him a lot, so presumably, there are good reasons.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Aug 16, 2020 5:19:10 GMT -5
I would argue that Ighoefe didn't play a lot last season because he was the last to arrive for the team, the one lone player who had to get acclimated to the overall level of play in America and more importantly because he was behind two stud centers for most of the year, guys whose level he hadn't yet caught up to at that time of was incapable of matching.
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Nov 14, 2020 5:37:06 GMT -5
Time for a bump. Staff says that Timothy may be most improved. Heâs becoming a beast. They love what Bile brings to the table and have been impressed with Kobe. Imagine waking up and learning that during a zoom session Georgetown coaches had remarked that Jamorko Pickett was becoming a beast. And let me make this clear that they may actually believe Pickett is on the verge of dominating in this upcoming season. But what if they actually came out and said he was beasting ? And letâs not stop with Jamorko. Consider the reaction that would follow if what was said about Ighoefe had been said in one way or another about certain other players on the roster. The praise wouldnât even have to be as laudable as the ones above that blueandgray shared with us. It could have been simply something as âsuch and such have looked pretty good so far in practice.â Just picture if that type of more general and vague praise had been applied to certain guys that Hoya fandom have apparently placed their bets and hopes on for this coming season. Guys such as Jalen Harris, Dante Harris, Donald Carey, Jamari Sibley or even Kobe Clark and T.J. Berger. That would have generated a certain amount of, relatively speaking, excitement and piqued interest. I too would have been swept up in the giddiness of such news if it had been applied to a few of these same names I listed because I myself have high hopes for a couple of them. But WHERE is the reaction by Hoya fans when coaches used the word âbeastâ in reference to the growing development of a now listed 7 foot âkidâ with a 250 pound NBA body? A player whose best days are still ahead of him considering he hasnât gotten much playing time and was thrust into the American form of the basketball game for the first time last year. A player who at the very least has shown glimpses of good level athleticism and quickness for a guy his size. A big man who already has shown he has good hands. A player being coached by a gentleman who knows something about big man dominance. Ighoefe being called most improved is exactly how Terrell Allen referred to him on a Georgetown Instagram post in late spring or early summer. That was something I noted because Allen in my estimation had an opinion worth valuing after witnessing him take over the leadership role for the Hoyas despite only being part of the program for less than a year. Considering how little information we were getting on the development of returning Hoya players I thought this snippet of evaluation by Allen was telling. On Hoya Report someone who had also participated in the Zoom conference claimed that the coaches referred to Ighoefe and Bile as the "most impressive" so far in practice. Perhaps that was a slightly wrong interpretation of the coaches' words, but it nonetheless suggests that Ighoefe is standing out. On its own these words are very encouraging coming from a staff that regretfully doesnât often publicly shower players with praise, particularly at this stage of the season. In my opinion it becomes even more intriguing considering its almost a certainty Ighoefe has made such impression battling every day against the dude who, in the same zoom conference, the coaches referred to as the best center in the Big East, Qudus Wahab; the one person who virtually every Hoya fans have high hopes for going into this upcoming season. Following the Big East Media Day I posted this in the thread dedicated to that media session: I finally got around to reading these comments made by Ewing and the players and the most promising (or at least interesting) insight as far as I am concerned is all the talk about Timothy Ighoefe. This was unexpected. Seriously no one here has taken the time to mention this? Here is the first drop of his name yesterday: So Ewing is asked about the importance of Pickett and pivots to discussing other key guys to share the burden. mentioning names like Blair and Wahab were totally expected. But he threw in Ighoefe's name as well. Why is that? One could assume its because these four are the only returning scholarship players who got any run last season. But let's be real. People have known that all along and yet still no one has previously elevated Ighoefe's name to such a point that it is mentioned alongside Pickett, Blair and Wahab in this fashion. Once again the drop of Ighoefe's name. I'm not sure in what context his name was used in the form of a question (or even if his name had been brought up at all), but Ewing is is speaking of him once more. Normally I may have been worried or deflated that his words about him and Wahab are not exactly adulatory, but I know how highly Ewing thinks of Wahab because he has talked so highly above him in the recent past. Has spat out the typical clichĂ© of the sky being the limit for Wahab. Ewing thinks Wahab has a big future ahead of him. And by his very words, by intertwining the trajectories of both of these two, young Nigerian big men, he is implicitly saying the same thing about Ighoefe. Like I said Ewing is extremely high on Wahab. He chose Wahab, as a sophomore, to be one of the two Hoya player representatives for Big East Media Day. Its a guarantee that Wahab is a starter. Nonetheless Aidan of Hoyas247 picked up something on Ewing's comments about Ighoefe and decided to press him about the possibility of Ighoefe taking some minutes, at the very least, from Wahab. Ewing's lack of a decided response, his lack of brushing such a question off altogether, can be interpreted as meaning that yes there is a chance of this. And that bodes very well imo for Ighoefe and the team. Lets go back to Hyas247 one last time with a quote from Wahab More Timmy talk! Wahab mentioning how he is comfortable at playing the four or five? Wahab talking about the idea of being on the floor at the same time as Ighoefe? Where have I come across this idea before? Oh, yeah. And this too. The first guy needs no introduction. The second, Duval Simmonds, is a former college basketball player and current trainer who has been working with Wahab before he even signed with Georgetown. What you get in both is the suggestion of not only playing Wahab and Ighoefe at the same time but also of the possibility that such an idea could actually work. It proposes a very exciting notion that either one of the guys or both can legitimately play the four. Its coming from two people with enough inside knowledge (pickup games, practice, summer workouts) about Wahab and Ighoefe to know if this can be done and if they can compliment one another. Funny that when I posted the tweet by Simmmonds weeks ago, HoyaTalkers almost immediately made it about how Wahab could play alongside Ryan Mutombo. Typical. As always Ighoefe remained an afterthought to them. But apparently he is not as much the non-factor they have made him out to be. Here's one more take: Philadelphia Hoya appears to be spotlighting a quote by John Fanta. This doesn't appear to be some random remark by Fanta in which he is being kind by throwing in Ighoefe's name because he too is a big man on scholarship. If that was the case why not mention Malcolm Wilson too? But notice how Wilson is not mention by name anywhere which means at this point Wilson hasn't shown enough separation from the pack to get acknowledge at this time. But Ighpefe has. Here are the observations by Fanta in their entirety: www.bigeast.com/news/2020/10/28/mens-basketball-big-east-media-day-notebook-11-takes.aspxGeorgetown Could we see a pair of sophomore Hoya towers on the floor at the same time this season? Patrick Ewing isnât ruling it out, because heâs seeing two of his big men make progress together by competing against one another in practice. Georgetown will be led in the post by second-year big guys Qudus Wahab and Timothy Ighoefe. Wahab showed flashes of potential last season, including a six-block performance in February against DePaul. They will be relied upon to man the interior this season. I'd be willing to bet good money that Fanta wasn't even aware of Ighoefe or at least remembered him before today's media day. And now he's referencing Twin Towers? Considering how highly Fanta thinks of Wahab it is pretty doubtful he would even make such a reference unless the comments about Ighoefe succeeded in making an impression. One last nugget of info. On Hoya Report the moderator has supplied some brief info days back from Georgetown program insiders about first impressions of players in these early days of practice (please don't ask me/DM for info). The comments regarding Ighoefe, again while brief and not terribly specific, are encouraging and one of the more positive feedbacks. I find all of this to be promising insight. No one else? A seven foot big man weighing at least 250 pounds who has soft hands and is athletic and agile is not exactly a player that grows on trees. That he is apparently making very good progress should be catching everyone's attention. Yet despite this growing accumulation of positive buzz about Ighoefe, the Hoya fandom has been virtually silent. Silent on message boards and websites. On twitter and on certain Hoya-centric podcasts there have been in fact those going out of their way to tamp down expectations for Ighoefe. Why is that? Yes, buzz has to translate to performance on the court if any difference is to be made but that applies to every player. However if anywhere near this buzz had been growing for players I already mentioned people would be running with it, looking at it as a sign of hope if not for this season than perhaps the next. This is the gist of every other comments made about D. Harris, Sibley and Kobe. And donât get me started on Donald Carey whom Hoya fans have penciled in as a two-year starter who they see as arguably the most crucial newcomer. If Hoya coaches had insinuated any indication that he was standing out in practice at this point, Georgetown fans would be all over it, some may have even gone as far to predict that the Hoyas could make the Big Dance. But all of these promising tidbits about Ighoefe has led to the biggest indifferent shrug that I have ever witnessed by Hoya fans since this medium known as the internet has become a thing. And that makes no sense. Are we that jaded? Or are we not excited because Ighoefe didnât arrive with four to five stars attached to his name and therefore we see him as a placeholder until someone like Ryan Mutombo arrives? The only logical reason I can see for people not caring about anything regarding Ighoefe is because they donât see him being as much of a necessity because Wahab is the starting center which makes Ighoefe pretty much a backup. Thatâs fine but doesnât having such a backup give us as fans a little more comfort going into the season? Doesnât that mean we have more fouls to give at the position and that the dropoff wonât be too bad if Ighoefe has to sub in for Wahab? And by the way for those who are so excited about Mutombo coming in while still expecting Wahab to be around next season, wouldnât Mutombo be in a similar role that first season? So why all the anticipation for Mutomboâs arrival next season and none for Ighoefe this coming year? It has to be the four-star ranking of Mutombo because I canât see any other reason (and, no, being the son of a Hoya great shouldnât by itself get a personâs hopes up for team success). Then again people have curiously placed high expectations on this year's newcomers who weren't highly regarded either. So perhaps it may come down to any success of Ighoefe and any possibility of his making a huge difference does not fit the narrative that some have already laid out in their minds when it comes to the team's fortunes. For those sick of me tooting Ighoefeâs horn let me tell you I am even more sick of having to do so. I honestly wish others had taken up that cause from time to time. But every instance some positive news or hints regarding Ighoefeâs progress drops the only thing that follows is the sound of crickets. That makes me feel compelled to write something, to post anything. I wish more of us would try that because isnât that what we as fans are supposed to do? If Wahab and Ighoefe both turn out to be studs then I hope I donât ever again come across posts playing down a playerâs potential because they didnât come in highly regarded according to the recruiting gurus.
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