njhoya78
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 7,803
|
Post by njhoya78 on Dec 4, 2017 10:51:06 GMT -5
Plus/minus for yesterday's game, as calculated from the play-by-play posted at guhoyas.com:
Mulmore +21, Johnson +19, Govan +18, Pickett +17, Derrickson +12, Mosely even, Blair -1, Walker -1, Dickerson -5, Hines DNP/coach's decision, Muresan DNP/coach's decision, Sodom DNP/coach's decision.
|
|
TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,477
|
Post by TC on Dec 4, 2017 10:53:15 GMT -5
A couple of random thoughts. (1). It sure looks and feels like Sodom may red shirt this year. I actually think he’d benefit from it. If he can’t get in versus Coppin State, I just don’t see him playing once conference starts. I cannot understand how someone who was so plugged into the program has opinions that are so absurd as "Sodom will redshirt". Not only does what FrazierFanatic says about playing one minute / needing a season ending injury apply, but the growing trend of 4th year grad transfers means that : - you shoot yourself in the foot on frontcourt depth for this year if you redshirt Sodom - what if there's an injury to Govan or Derrickson? - hypothetically, if you somehow manipulate the rules and get Sodom a redshirt year, he probably doesn't play his awarded year at Georgetown. You give a kid a fifth year, he's a free agent. So there's absolutely zero benefit to GU to redshirting the kid now for some payoff down the road for some other school - this team is awful, and we've already eliminated ourselves from the postseason with this schedule - why would you not just play the kid? Govan, Johnson, Mulmore, and Derrickson are not going to be parts of a GU tournament team. You want to get back to the tournament? Play Sodom. Play Walker. Play Mosely. Play Pickett. Play Blair.
|
|
sleepy
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 6,079
|
Post by sleepy on Dec 4, 2017 10:59:36 GMT -5
The staff did a terrible job in not having the team adjust to Coppins slow down tactics, so much for pushing the pace.. This was the type of performance that MCI & other posters would get on JT3 for.. As someone who rarely criticized III, I think criticizing JTIII after a decade of being the coach and having the same perceived flaw is very different from having the team do something poorly 1 game out of 6 in your first year as the coach of a lot of young players. Do we really have to spend time after wins criticizing people for not being critical enough?
|
|
|
Post by professorhoya on Dec 4, 2017 11:03:24 GMT -5
The staff did a terrible job in not having the team adjust to Coppins slow down tactics, so much for pushing the pace.. This was the type of performance that MCI & other posters would get on JT3 for.. It was good to face Fanny Jackson Coppin's makeshift Pack Line Defense. We need practice against that as that takes away dribble penetration and the paint, is immune to freedom of movement fouls and force us to hit wide open 3's. It's good practice for when we face Butler.
|
|
SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 17,899
|
Post by SFHoya99 on Dec 4, 2017 11:05:49 GMT -5
Terrible game. Not just because we didn't pull away.
Mainly because the effort level and focus that has been lacking with this group of players -- the malaise that doomed this team the last 2 years -- came back. We're five games into the season and we're already seeing players constantly standing around on offense, cutting lazily, sloppy passes, watching. We're seeing slow switches on defense, strange half-help choices that leave them in no man's land, etc. And for all those that care about coach demeanor, Ewing wasn't doing much on the sideline.
Part of the reason I can't wait for next year's class is that both LeBlanc and McClung are known as gym rats with constant motors. We've got maybe one guy like that on our squad that I can tell, and the result is most games are like this. No offense runs well when no one is moving, and no one was moving.
Kudos to Govan for his game. He's still going to struggle against bigger, stronger guys, but his effort was there on offense at least. And nice end of first half from Walker, who got the 50/50 balls that everyone should have been getting.
EDIT: No, I don't buy the "guys are bored of creampuffs" argument. That doesn't explain why it was a game with eight minutes left.
|
|
lichoya68
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
OK YOUNGINS ARE HERE AND ARE VERY VERY GOOD cant wait GO HOYAS
Posts: 17,443
|
Post by lichoya68 on Dec 4, 2017 11:06:47 GMT -5
sloopy the good as usual govan and marcus.. mulmore a little more outa control looks like jagan is steady and healing and also jamarko is getting in the groove and playing a little better on d we will see HOWARD WILL HE TOUGH PS DIXON HAD HIS GUYS COACHED UP hell do well go hoyas
|
|
bostonfan
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 2,531
|
Post by bostonfan on Dec 4, 2017 11:07:14 GMT -5
I'm not sure our defense will allow us to win even one BE game. It is awful. I am serious. To me, at the guard spot, I see Mosely as the only one capable of pulling his weight defensively. At the forward position, no one. Hope I am proven wrong. The defense was not good, and should be able to force turnovers against an undermanned Coppin State team. The only good thing I see from the defense, compared to last year, is they don't seem to foul as often which has resulted in more free thorws for the Hoyas than the opponents, but the aggressiveness is just not there yet. Against Maine it seemed they struggled to keep the other team from penetrating into the lane, they seemed to do a better job of that against Coppin, but they struggled to make the correct rotations to be in position to contest the three point shots. Defense is all about understanding positioning and rotations and then effort. It appears to me that they are giving the effort but just have not gotten up to speed on the rotations and help defense concepts. Better teams, wiht more skilled athletes, will take advantages of these mistakes. I am a big fan of playing aggressive man to man defense, but I really think this team would be well served to be able to switch to a zone occasionally. They have some decent length and it might be helpful in some games, especially if they run into foul trouble with Govan and Derrickson. It might even make it easier to find a few minutes for Sodom. I also would have liked to see the Hoyas pick up full court and speed the pace up against a team like Coppin who was trying to slow the pace down. Overall, another win against a team that is not very good so it is hard to really know how well the team is progressing, but still better than losing to teams that are not very good, which we have done the last few years on occasion.
|
|
|
Post by FrazierFanatic on Dec 4, 2017 11:25:49 GMT -5
A couple of random thoughts. (1). It sure looks and feels like Sodom may red shirt this year. I actually think he’d benefit from it. If he can’t get in versus Coppin State, I just don’t see him playing once conference starts. I cannot understand how someone who was so plugged into the program has opinions that are so absurd as "Sodom will redshirt". Not only does what FrazierFanatic says about playing one minute / needing a season ending injury apply, but the growing trend of 4th year grad transfers means that : - you shoot yourself in the foot on frontcourt depth for this year if you redshirt Sodom - what if there's an injury to Govan or Derrickson? - hypothetically, if you somehow manipulate the rules and get Sodom a redshirt year, he probably doesn't play his awarded year at Georgetown. You give a kid a fifth year, he's a free agent. So there's absolutely zero benefit to GU to redshirting the kid now for some payoff down the road for some other school - this team is awful, and we've already eliminated ourselves from the postseason with this schedule - why would you not just play the kid? Govan, Johnson, Mulmore, and Derrickson are not going to be parts of a GU tournament team. You want to get back to the tournament? Play Sodom. Play Walker. Play Mosely. Play Pickett. Play Blair. I absolutely agree that Sodom should be able to get at least 4-5 minutes a half to help him develop with game minutes. I do not agree that our schedule has eliminated us from the post-season. Because this team was never, ever going to the NCAA's this season. And with the Georgetown name plus Ewing's name, I don't think the NIT will care about our weak OOC if we somehow win 6 or 7 conference games
|
|
SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
"Forget it Jake, it's Chinatown."
Posts: 19,141
|
Post by SSHoya on Dec 4, 2017 11:30:36 GMT -5
Not sure if this was addressed elsewhere in the thread, but from what I was told, TV had no barring on the start times. Georgetown wanted its full pre-game as if there was no prior game. Well, it didn't seem to help!
|
|
EtomicB
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
Posts: 15,231
|
Post by EtomicB on Dec 4, 2017 11:36:56 GMT -5
I am not defending the coaching in the Coppin game, and Patrick should not be immune from criticism. But nobody knows the potential of the team at this point, perhaps not even Ewing. Maybe Richmond, which was not all that impressive in itself, was an outlier. Coach is learning along with us. I think you would concede that if we flame out against Syracuse and in the Big East, we are not very good. Or will that be all the Coach's fault in your view? I get that we don't know the teams full potential after 6 games but we do know they can play much better than they have the last 2 games right? I'm going to continue to judge the team based on 2 to 3 game increments, I think that's the best way to look at developing teams.. Flaming out to me will mean that little to no progress was made during the season, if that happens I'll have no problems handing out blame to the staff, players & the administration..
|
|
TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,477
|
Post by TC on Dec 4, 2017 12:16:09 GMT -5
I do not agree that our schedule has eliminated us from the post-season. Because this team was never, ever going to the NCAA's this season. And with the Georgetown name plus Ewing's name, I don't think the NIT will care about our weak OOC if we somehow win 6 or 7 conference games Maybe 20 years ago we could have made the NIT with this schedule and 6 or 7 conference wins. Here's the 2017 NIT field by RPI : bracketmatrix.com/nit.htmlLowest non-automatic bid? 106, Georgia Tech. We're currently undefeated, but have a RPI of 180. I don't think this team is going to sniff a double digit RPI this season.
|
|
|
Post by FrazierFanatic on Dec 4, 2017 12:36:22 GMT -5
I do not agree that our schedule has eliminated us from the post-season. Because this team was never, ever going to the NCAA's this season. And with the Georgetown name plus Ewing's name, I don't think the NIT will care about our weak OOC if we somehow win 6 or 7 conference games Maybe 20 years ago we could have made the NIT with this schedule and 6 or 7 conference wins. Here's the 2017 NIT field by RPI : bracketmatrix.com/nit.htmlLowest non-automatic bid? 106, Georgia Tech. We're currently undefeated, but have a RPI of 180. I don't think this team is going to sniff a double digit RPI this season. You could be right, although our RPI will certainly rise fairly substantially once conference play starts. I still think 7 conference wins would be enough to get the NIT to invite us, our RPI could get close to that 106 figure depending on who the 7 wins were against.
|
|
TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,477
|
Post by TC on Dec 4, 2017 12:48:53 GMT -5
You could be right, although our RPI will certainly rise fairly substantially once conference play starts. I still think 7 conference wins would be enough to get the NIT to invite us, our RPI could get close to that 106 figure depending on who the 7 wins were against. You're suggesting our RPI is going to rise if we beat Villanova rather than DePaul? The RPI is like a honey badger, given a set of six or seven conference wins, it doesn't really care if we beat DePaul or Villanova.
|
|
aristides
Bulldog (over 250 posts)
Posts: 342
|
Post by aristides on Dec 4, 2017 13:01:13 GMT -5
I was glad for Kaleb Johnson's play last night. He didn't score points but I thought he was a steadying force for the team on both ends of the floor. On a night when Mulmore appeared to struggle and too many players were taking jump shots instead of feeding the post, Johnson seemed to focus on distributing the ball instead of scoring. Defensively, he was a presence as well as I remember him forcing opposing players into several bad shots.
Govan is doing everything he should out there on the offensive end of the floor. MVP of the game hands down.
The more I see of Walker, the more excited I am about the next 3 seasons. He looks like he's going to be good.
|
|
|
Post by FrazierFanatic on Dec 4, 2017 13:01:43 GMT -5
That's not true at all. DePaul may be an outlier if they are as bad as they have traditionally been, since they would be a bad loss, but - as an example - beating a top ten Villanova on the road while losing to a #35 team (let's say Seton Hall for the sake of discussion) raises our RPI more than beating Hall and losing to Nova.
|
|
TC
Platinum Hoya (over 5000 posts)
Posts: 9,477
|
Post by TC on Dec 4, 2017 13:06:50 GMT -5
That's not true at all. DePaul may be an outlier if they are as bad as they have traditionally been, since they would be a bad loss, but - as an example - beating a top ten Villanova on the road while losing to a #35 team (let's say Seton Hall for the sake of discussion) raises our RPI more than beating Hall and losing to Nova. No, it doesn't. 0.25WP x 0.5OWP x 0.25OOWP
|
|
|
Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Dec 4, 2017 13:23:52 GMT -5
Because this team was never, ever going to the NCAA's this season. And with the Georgetown name plus Ewing's name, I don't think the NIT will care about our weak OOC if we somehow win 6 or 7 conference games I don't want to beat a dead horse because I did a post on this last week, but the NIT selection process actually looks at metrics like RPI, and at least on paper is supposed to pick the "best available teams to fill the NIT field." The committee then creates a seed list of teams from 1 to 56ish, and then uses that to place the teams in the bracket. Georgetown's name might carry more cachet than a mid major, but I don't think we can rely on our name to get us into the NIT. It's going to depend on our record. 6 conference games won't be enough. As I've said ad nausem, in 2016 Marquette went 8-10, and had 20 overall wins and did not make it. If we have only 6 conference wins, there will be no NIT for Georgetown. Personally, I think because of our awful OOC schedule, unless we win 9+ conference games, we have virtually no shot at the NIT.
|
|
BigmanU
Silver Hoya (over 500 posts)
Posts: 915
|
Post by BigmanU on Dec 4, 2017 13:33:07 GMT -5
A couple of random thoughts. (1). It sure looks and feels like Sodom may red shirt this year. I actually think he’d benefit from it. If he can’t get in versus Coppin State, I just don’t see him playing once conference starts. I cannot understand how someone who was so plugged into the program has opinions that are so absurd as "Sodom will redshirt". Not only does what FrazierFanatic says about playing one minute / needing a season ending injury apply, but the growing trend of 4th year grad transfers means that : - you shoot yourself in the foot on frontcourt depth for this year if you redshirt Sodom - what if there's an injury to Govan or Derrickson? - hypothetically, if you somehow manipulate the rules and get Sodom a redshirt year, he probably doesn't play his awarded year at Georgetown. You give a kid a fifth year, he's a free agent. So there's absolutely zero benefit to GU to redshirting the kid now for some payoff down the road for some other school - this team is awful, and we've already eliminated ourselves from the postseason with this schedule - why would you not just play the kid? Govan, Johnson, Mulmore, and Derrickson are not going to be parts of a GU tournament team. You want to get back to the tournament? Play Sodom. Play Walker. Play Mosely. Play Pickett. Play Blair. I have no inside knowledge but the way his minutes are restricted, it looks like a redshirt year is actually on the table. He's only seen action in four games and logged a total of 18 minutes and only 5 minutes since game #2. Reminds me of Freshman Hayes minute restriction. Watch to see if Ewing only breaks the glass again in case of emergency.
|
|
GIGAFAN99
Diamond Hoya (over 2500 posts)
Posts: 4,487
|
Post by GIGAFAN99 on Dec 4, 2017 13:34:31 GMT -5
We have the technology for this with the RPI wizard.
If we beat Cuse;
7-11, beat Depaul and lose to Xavier in the BET = projected RPI 93
So there you go.
|
|
|
Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Dec 4, 2017 13:40:36 GMT -5
I have no inside knowledge but the way his minutes are restricted, it looks like a redshirt year is actually on the table. He's only seen action in four games and logged a total of 18 minutes and only 5 minutes since game #2. Reminds me of Freshman Hayes minute restriction. Watch to see if Ewing only breaks the glass again in case of emergency. Except the rules are such that if you play ANY MINUTES you cannot qualify for a redshirt without an injury waiver or some other type of waiver. Ewing, the staff, and the athletic department clearly know that. So, if they intended on a redshirt, he would not have played thus far. Hayes did not get a redshirt. He got a waiver for an extra season largely resulting from personal family issues, including that his father died unexpectedly during his freshman year. His limited minutes were not the driving force. The more logical - and almost certainly correct - reason behind Sodom's minutes is that Ewing doesn't feel he's good enough to warrant them, and we have had closer games than you'd like to give Sodom ample playing time.
|
|