iowa80
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Post by iowa80 on Nov 15, 2017 23:35:31 GMT -5
Grumpy Old Man Thoughts here. Fun game to watch, but I'm not nearly as positive as most of you about this team. I do like some things: - I'm still very much liking the offense that we are running. A lot less screening/picking this time around, as we spent much less time in the halfcourt, but there's good spacing, decent movement, and still every once in a while we create a bucket out of good interior passing.
- If this is a real step forward for Jagan, and not just the result of playing a short, unathletic team, then the prospects going forward are much better. I love his IQ, but he hasn't been able to finish at the rim, well, ever, before this game.
- Sodom looks like he could really be something at some point. Pat Ewing + Sodom could be a heckuva player at some point.
- We got an absurd amount of our points on the break, especially to a trailing big man for a three. That's great that we recognize this opportunity, but fast break points are something that good teams and well coached teams can often take away. This is grumpy me talking -- people on here seemed to always think that when we'd run against cupcakes and then not much against Villanova that III was holding people back. The defense plays a role. Forcing turnovers and strong rebounding can help that, but I'm not sure we're actually going to be strong there.
- People were worried about shooting, but that's probably the strongest part of our offense so far -- Govan, Doc, Blair, Pickett make for some pretty decent shooting.
- I just don't think this offense can keep up. I don't trust MD's or Govan's post game or offensive rebounding against bigger, stronger teams. I don't trust anyone to create off the dribble. I suspect we won't be a great breaking team against good teams. We'll run the offense and shoot a crapload of threes. Don't believe me -- we've played two creampuffs and we are shooting 3s on 38.4% of our FGA -- 5% more than last year! On one hand, we are shooting 44%, so okay, but on the other, these are teams we should be able to get to the line against, get to the hole, post up. And we're still resorting to 3s on 40% of our shots. What's going to happen against a good defense?
- Our pick and roll defense was really, really bad. We got away with it a ton. On small/big pnrs, we went over the top and the big hedged back to stop the drive. We stopped the drive ... but game up a ton of wide open threes (they missed). More worryingly, we also gave up a ton of easy passes to the roll man -- our help rotation from the weak side was late at least four times that I saw, usually fouling.
- We're also giving up a ton of threes (40% of FGA), but not giving up a high %. Good 3pt defenses usually limit the shots while limiting % tends to be a bit more random. I think this is a bit fluky given this may have been scouting report driven, but it's something to watch.
- Part of my skepticism is that we've dominated the boards, but I can't see Jessie Govan doing that against any size. Perhaps he will prove me wrong.
- I will harp on this again: we are taking a ton of threes, not getting to the line at all, not forcing turnovers, and our good offense has been driven by hot 3pt shooting. Ewing runs a different offense, and yes, we're breaking a lot though some of that may be opponent. But this team has a lot in common with prior years, mostly that pesky personnel.
We are only two games in, but I detect more than a subtle difference in our offensive philosophy. At this point, personnel is irrelevant to that, and we are likely to get our butts kicked on nights when we don't control the defensive boards and/or are not shooting/making the three. Still, if there's a suggestion that this is our previous coach's vision, I'd have to disagree. |
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Nov 15, 2017 23:40:47 GMT -5
Blair is who intrigues me. I know Pickett and even Walker are gonna be studs. Blair though was an under-the-radar guy that people were raving about during the Kenner League. He looked like the second coming of DSR out there, although one in better condition at this stage of his college playing days. I know, I know. Level of competition. Unfortunately we're gonna be wondering about this until mid-December.. After two very nice wins, I'd love to see the team taking on tougher comp out in Portland a week from Friday.. I'd put a chunk of change many posters would like to see how they'd do now as well.. The schedule is a joke. I somewhat understand why Ewing went that route and I'm somewhat sympathetic. But it is not only gonna bite us in terms of prep and being able to gauge, it will also make getting to the NCAA tourney almost impossible even if the team turns out better than expected. |
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 15, 2017 23:41:13 GMT -5
Aggression on the boards, Rebounding has been much better. We've played some really small teams. Let's wait and see on this. Totally agree. We'll see if it pays off against better defense. The former is not really true once you take into account the creampuff nature -- we're actually shooting MANY more threes. We aren't getting to the line AT ALL. We actually got to the line a TON last year, which was admittedly different than most JTIII teams. [quote[players who look as if they have discovered conditioning, seeking out fastbreaks if available, better grasp at not only beating a trap defense but how to punish the defense once beating that trap, going deep into the bench in an early season game....and in the first half no less, I am reserving judgement until we play a real team. Which we play like once all preseason. I am a fan of the crisp, purposeful passing. Let's wait and play a real defense on the rest. This offense does not have the talent to not be stymied and fail to be able to penetrate at times. And the droughts thing has been debunked a thousand times but you keep it up -- every team has them, and Georgetown's had a lot more to do with talent level than style. The problem is that this isn't true. Much of it stems from the fact that most people on this board think "small name school = weak foe." Thompson lost to just 2 teams ranked 200 or over in Pomeroy in 13 years. And both of those were ranked well above MSM or Jacksonville. If we blow out Richmond or Syracuse, you may have a point. But we've played two terrible teams and we crushed one and played to a comfortable win over the other. That's basically what III did for 13 years against Pomeroy 250+ teams, never losing and blowing out the majority of them. Yes, you often said this. What level of opponent should this roster be blowing out by halftime? Look, we got upset a lot in the tournament against underdogs, but mostly pretty damn good underdogs. But understand that MSM is soooo far from any of those teams in quality. I find fire and passion overrated -- something fans are obsessed over but I don't know if there's much of a correlation to winning. However, I do appreciate the teaching time outs. |
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SFHoya99
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 15, 2017 23:51:49 GMT -5
Grumpy Old Man Thoughts here. Fun game to watch, but I'm not nearly as positive as most of you about this team. I do like some things: - I'm still very much liking the offense that we are running. A lot less screening/picking this time around, as we spent much less time in the halfcourt, but there's good spacing, decent movement, and still every once in a while we create a bucket out of good interior passing.
- If this is a real step forward for Jagan, and not just the result of playing a short, unathletic team, then the prospects going forward are much better. I love his IQ, but he hasn't been able to finish at the rim, well, ever, before this game.
- Sodom looks like he could really be something at some point. Pat Ewing + Sodom could be a heckuva player at some point.
- We got an absurd amount of our points on the break, especially to a trailing big man for a three. That's great that we recognize this opportunity, but fast break points are something that good teams and well coached teams can often take away. This is grumpy me talking -- people on here seemed to always think that when we'd run against cupcakes and then not much against Villanova that III was holding people back. The defense plays a role. Forcing turnovers and strong rebounding can help that, but I'm not sure we're actually going to be strong there.
- People were worried about shooting, but that's probably the strongest part of our offense so far -- Govan, Doc, Blair, Pickett make for some pretty decent shooting.
- I just don't think this offense can keep up. I don't trust MD's or Govan's post game or offensive rebounding against bigger, stronger teams. I don't trust anyone to create off the dribble. I suspect we won't be a great breaking team against good teams. We'll run the offense and shoot a crapload of threes. Don't believe me -- we've played two creampuffs and we are shooting 3s on 38.4% of our FGA -- 5% more than last year! On one hand, we are shooting 44%, so okay, but on the other, these are teams we should be able to get to the line against, get to the hole, post up. And we're still resorting to 3s on 40% of our shots. What's going to happen against a good defense?
- Our pick and roll defense was really, really bad. We got away with it a ton. On small/big pnrs, we went over the top and the big hedged back to stop the drive. We stopped the drive ... but game up a ton of wide open threes (they missed). More worryingly, we also gave up a ton of easy passes to the roll man -- our help rotation from the weak side was late at least four times that I saw, usually fouling.
- We're also giving up a ton of threes (40% of FGA), but not giving up a high %. Good 3pt defenses usually limit the shots while limiting % tends to be a bit more random. I think this is a bit fluky given this may have been scouting report driven, but it's something to watch.
- Part of my skepticism is that we've dominated the boards, but I can't see Jessie Govan doing that against any size. Perhaps he will prove me wrong.
- I will harp on this again: we are taking a ton of threes, not getting to the line at all, not forcing turnovers, and our good offense has been driven by hot 3pt shooting. Ewing runs a different offense, and yes, we're breaking a lot though some of that may be opponent. But this team has a lot in common with prior years, mostly that pesky personnel.
We are only two games in, but I detect more than a subtle difference in our offensive philosophy. At this point, personnel is irrelevant to that, and we are likely to get our butts kicked on nights when we don't control the defensive boards and/or are not shooting/making the three. Still, if there's a suggestion that this is our previous coach's vision, I'd have to disagree. No, it's a different offense. My point was that no change in philosophy is going to correct the roster's lack of a penetrating guard who can create one on one, or the fact that MD is not quite tall or athletic enough or that Govan doesn't play with force. The system looks fine, and it's different -- though it has plenty of shared elements with the Princeton. But whether it is this offense or JTIII's, I think people fail to appreciate that player skill and execution often dictates what it looks like. Wanting to run a PNR offense without a quality PG isn't going to be effective just by telling people to run the PNR. We're going to shoot a lot of threes this year because we can't get a better shot. It's not because Ewing is a terrible coach; it's because we'r going to face teams that are more talented than us. We were actually lower than average in terms of 3PA/FGA last year and got to the line a ton. I suspect we'll actually shoot MORE threes this year and get to the line LESS. And if that happens, it won't be because Ewing is an idiot, it's because we don't have LJ Peak for the most part. I sincerely hope I'm wrong -- that either the players develop quickly or Ewing is a genius, but I just suspect that we're going to crush the non-conference schedule and have a pretty rough BE. |
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SFHoya99
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by SFHoya99 on Nov 15, 2017 23:56:47 GMT -5
Right up until we miss a tourney because of a weak schedule.  I don't mind the cupcake schedule this year, but the BE schedule could be a pretty nasty wake-up call for some fans ... and the team. I've been making this argument since the summer. A nasty wake up call in January is far better than misery from November-March like we were getting with these schedules that were deceptively challenging. When was the last time we had over optimism and too much positivity on this board? Can't we just be happy that the made up facts and fake news is trending is the positive direction for once? Remember when Nov/Dec was designed for setting unrealistic expectations for the rest of the season? That's one way to go. My preference is not to watch everyone crash and burn in January. I'm just keeping a level head and watching for signs that the fundamentals of good coaching are there -- effective strategy and discipline on offense and defense; improving player skills; that sort of thing. EDIT: And if you want positivity, III's first year saw massive improvement and set the stage for very real, very quick success. Let's hope for the same here. |
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Post by trillesthoya on Nov 16, 2017 1:55:40 GMT -5
Heads up, nsfw language in background song.
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HoyaFanNY
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Post by HoyaFanNY on Nov 16, 2017 6:21:12 GMT -5
great rebounding numbers. decent turnover numbers other than mulmore. pickett and blair really bring it offensively. They are constantly putting pressure on the defense. Great performance from Mosely. UMES should be another opportunity for the young guys to develop. Get Sodom and Walker some good minutes. They'll be needed come January. Is Mourning playing this year?
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Nov 16, 2017 7:01:45 GMT -5
One thing that's difficult for me to gauge is yes, we'll take more threes but will they be better threes than the last few years?
I think so. One reason is the starters can all shoot an open three. That sounds unremarkable but it's step one. You can't really shoot more threes with a Lubick/Hopkins frontcourt and expect them to be less guarded. Second, we do shoot on the break. I know "good coaching can stop that" but the Hoyas weren't entirely outmanned when choosing not to break. Was it Jay Bilas who noted nobody practiced the break the last few years less than us? Third, we have realized there are corners and they are still part of the court. One of the more frustrating parts of the last few years was our "talent" for artificially restricting our operating space. We almost used any movement resulting in a corner three as a "surprise tactic" preferring to basically weave until LJ got fouled. Fourth, we might not trust MD and JG inside but they are clearly better than MD and JG last year. So whether or not they're great remains to be seen but they will have to be accounted for down low at the very least which will open up the perimeter more.
So the lack of a great PG limits the ceiling of the offense. After two games though, I'm almost ready to raise the floor. I don't think we're Depaul in record or trajectory and that was a real fear as a scenario.
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sweetness
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Post by sweetness on Nov 16, 2017 7:06:58 GMT -5
Watching that game was like night and day from the last few years. It was actually fun to watch. I also felt like we were watching modern basketball being played by guys who actually wanted to be playing/winning. And I say all that recognizing that we will likely not have a great Big East record this year.
Just focusing on the freshmen, Pickett is a stud, and Blair is a revelation at this point. As someone mentioned I like how Blair stayed aggressive even after missing his first few shots. And I saw enough of Walker at Kenner to know it's just a matter of time until he's contributing as well.
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Post by professorhoya on Nov 16, 2017 7:30:01 GMT -5
One thing that's difficult for me to gauge is yes, we'll take more threes but will they be better threes than the last few years? I think so. One reason is the starters can all shoot an open three. That sounds unremarkable but it's step one. You can't really shoot more threes with a Lubick/Hopkins frontcourt and expect them to be less guarded. Second, we do shoot on the break. I know "good coaching can stop that" but the Hoyas weren't entirely outmanned when choosing not to break. Was it Jay Bilas who noted nobody practiced the break the last few years less than us? Third, we have realized there are corners and they are still part of the court. One of the more frustrating parts of the last few years was our "talent" for artificially restricting our operating space. We almost used any movement resulting in a corner three as a "surprise tactic" preferring to basically weave until LJ got fouled. Fourth, we might not trust MD and JG inside but they are clearly better than MD and JG last year. So whether or not they're great remains to be seen but they will have to be accounted for down low at the very least which will open up the perimeter more. So the lack of a great PG limits the ceiling of the offense. After two games though, I'm almost ready to raise the floor. I don't think we're Depaul in record or trajectory and that was a real fear as a scenario. The thing about this years unit is that they can all hit wide open 3s and have good strokes (except maybe Kaleb Johnson whose shot is flat and doesn't have the right arc.) Mulmores shot is a little unorthodox but he can hit the wide open 3 if you give him all day. In the past we've had guys like Reggie Cameron and Stephon Domingo who were supposed to be 3pt specialists but had trouble consistently hitting wide open3s on top of not being not able to create their own shot. I've seen enough of Blair to know that he can hit the 3, is very aggressive and won't be psychologically bothered by missing a 3 like Cameron seemed to be. He's been a pleasant surprise to this recruiting class. |
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Post by professorhoya on Nov 16, 2017 7:31:30 GMT -5
Watching that game was like night and day from the last few years. It was actually fun to watch. I also felt like we were watching modern basketball being played by guys who actually wanted to be playing/winning. And I say all that recognizing that we will likely not have a great Big East record this year. Just focusing on the freshmen, Pickett is a stud, and Blair is a revelation at this point. As someone mentioned I like how Blair stayed aggressive even after missing his first few shots. And I saw enough of Walker at Kenner to know it's just a matter of time until he's contributing as well. WAlker just isn't getting the minutes right now but you can already see his athleticism and tenacity. And he dominanted Kenner so it's only a matter of time before he becomes a force. |
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smokeyjack
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Post by smokeyjack on Nov 16, 2017 8:00:35 GMT -5
Observations from first Ewing game live after attending literally hundreds of JT3 games:
1. GU desperately needs a PG - it’s going to likely be the difference between a stunning debut and just a good one for Pat and Co.
2. Style of ball is so much better to watch - wow, what a difference. Team with weaker personnel on paper than last season looks better than any Hoyas team in years relative to comfort on floor and flow. There aren’t those hideous halting moments where the bigs flash high, get the ball and hold the ball for 10 seconds before awkwardly handing off. And this is Game 2 with a punch of pups playing. Most impressive to me is how well this team passes and moves ball in half court given that’s not even really the uptempo focus. Not to Edited on the departed, but juxtaposition is NOT kind to JT3.
3. Yeah, it’s MSM, but they were a tourney team last season, Junior is a very good player and we handled them more convincingly than ND or Marquette.
4. Pickett is a future pro. Kid is big time. Blair is going to be solid. Once again, really too bad this team doesn’t have a natural PG.
5. Mulmore is ... well... not a PG. Kid totally lacks the spacing and passing intuition to be the handles under pressure for a legit squad.
6. As stated by many ITT above, Govan is a totally different player.
7. Pat can coach. Shame on me for questioning a guy who spent as long as he did on NBA benches, but he knows what he is doing - no doubt. You don’t look as reasonably smooth and confident as this group looked last night against reasonable competition in Game 2 unless growth is happening at a solid rate in practice. We’ll see if Pat has a late-game knack later this season, but he has them prepared.
8. Love the intensity. Was Pat scorching guys routinely? No, but the guy who said above his demeanor is similar to JT3’s just doesn’t know what he’s watching. Sodom got a Popsesque 90-second short shift in the first half last night when he didn’t box out one of MSM’s midgets. And during the Mount’s only “run” of the game when they cut it to 15 in second half, Ewing at one point yanked Derrickson for playing crap D and settling for deep 3s and gave him one heck of an earful on reinsertion. Dude is way more intense than 3, and his players reflect that with intensity.
9. No way is this the worst team in the BE. Certainly not the best, but we are going to shock some folks this season and absolutely pull some upsets. Love, love, love what I️ see so far.
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blueandgray
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Post by blueandgray on Nov 16, 2017 8:21:38 GMT -5
Watching that game was like night and day from the last few years. It was actually fun to watch. I also felt like we were watching modern basketball being played by guys who actually wanted to be playing/winning. And I say all that recognizing that we will likely not have a great Big East record this year. Just focusing on the freshmen, Pickett is a stud, and Blair is a revelation at this point. As someone mentioned I like how Blair stayed aggressive even after missing his first few shots. And I saw enough of Walker at Kenner to know it's just a matter of time until he's contributing as well. Agree with everything here. Add to that ....love the pace these kids are playing with (especially love how we attacked the press) and the cadence of Ewing’s coaching style. He seems to be calling time outs at the right time (ie after a few poor defensive stands and one to save Mulmore from a possible turnover in the backcourt). Add to that he had some really nice inbounds plays which was so refreshing. We may fall apart come conference play....but i have a sneaking suspicion that we will have more quality wins than we do bad losses. |
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DallasHoya
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Post by DallasHoya on Nov 16, 2017 8:27:04 GMT -5
Observations from first Ewing game live after attending literally hundreds of JT3 games: 1. GU desperately needs a PG - it’s going to likely be the difference between a stunning debut and just a good one for Pat and Co. 2. Style of ball is so much better to watch - wow, what a difference. Team with weaker personnel on paper than last season looks better than any Hoyas team in years relative to comfort on floor and flow. There aren’t those hideous halting moments where the bigs flash high, get the ball and hold the ball for 10 seconds before awkwardly handing off. And this is Game 2 with a punch of pups playing. Most impressive to me is how well this team passes and moves ball in half court given that’s not even really the uptempo focus. Not to Edited on the departed, but juxtaposition is NOT kind to JT3. 3. Yeah, it’s MSM, but they were a tourney team last season, Junior is a very good player and we handled them more convincingly than ND or Marquette. 4. Pickett is a future pro. Kid is big time. Blair is going to be solid. Once again, really too bad this team doesn’t have a natural PG. 5. Mulmore is ... well... not a PG. Kid totally lacks the spacing and passing intuition to be the handles under pressure for a legit squad. 6. As stated by many ITT above, Govan is a totally different player. 7. Pat can coach. Shame on me for questioning a guy who spent as long as he did on NBA benches, but he knows what he is doing - no doubt. You don’t look as reasonably smooth and confident as this group looked last night against reasonable competition in Game 2 unless growth is happening at a solid rate in practice. We’ll see if Pat has a late-game knack later this season, but he has them prepared. 8. Love the intensity. Was Pat scorching guys routinely? No, but the guy who said above his demeanor is similar to JT3’s just doesn’t know what he’s watching. Sodom got a Popsesque 90-second short shift in the first half last night when he didn’t box out one of MSM’s midgets. And during the Mount’s only “run” of the game when they cut it to 15 in second half, Ewing at one point yanked Derrickson for playing crap D and settling for deep 3s and gave him one heck of an earful on reinsertion. Dude is way more intense than 3, and his players reflect that with intensity. 9. No way is this the worst team in the BE. Certainly not the best, but we are going to shock some folks this season and absolutely pull some upsets. Love, love, love what I️ see so far. And not a single reverse spin dribble 30 foot from the basket without a defender anywhere nearby. |
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Post by practice on Nov 16, 2017 8:59:47 GMT -5
Recruits are going to watch film with Coach Ewing and envision what they can do in this offense. Almost everyone seems to have a green light. They are pushing the ball. Kids are going to want to play here.
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hoyadimes
Century (over 100 posts)
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Post by hoyadimes on Nov 16, 2017 9:11:30 GMT -5
I 100% agree with most of the positive points. This is the first time in years I feel the team understands how the offense is to produce buckets. There were too many instances in previous years where players seemed to be simply trying to run the offense without a true purpose, only to end up taking a bad shot anyways due to the shot clock expiring. A true point guard and this team would be a lock for the tournament. The entire attitude offensively/defensively is different. It's obvious the players have bought in. We should all be excited about the future of this program.
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Post by ewingitrust on Nov 16, 2017 9:17:55 GMT -5
The focus should be on our free flowing offense that produced 5 double-digit scorers and our improved defense/rebounding...than who we're playing. Game by game improvement is all i ask
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calhoya
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Post by calhoya on Nov 16, 2017 9:32:04 GMT -5
I certainly understand the view of those who say that this team has not yet proven that it is good, but simply it is better than some bad teams. While there may still be missing parts and some players may still have the same flaws as in the past, it is like watching the freshman year of the Copeland-White-Peak class. Frustrating at times, but still hopeful about the future and the potential growth of that team. That group did not work out but this is a new team with different skills. It's nice to be a little optimistic about this team after so much negativism from the past few years.
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Post by williambraskyiii on Nov 16, 2017 9:33:34 GMT -5
Real question: where did Jahvon Blair come from? Even against MSM, dropping 17 in your second college game is seriously impressive. Was this guy heavily recruited? He seems ready to contribute now. Great touch around the basket (love the floaters), accuracy from deep, strong build...can't wait to see him against better competition, so in 2018 I guess....
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SSHoya
Blue & Gray (over 10,000 posts)
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Post by SSHoya on Nov 16, 2017 10:01:15 GMT -5
Real question: where did Jahvon Blair come from? Even against MSM, dropping 17 in your second college game is seriously impressive. Was this guy heavily recruited? He seems ready to contribute now. Great touch around the basket (love the floaters), accuracy from deep, strong build...can't wait to see him against better competition, so in 2018 I guess.... Canadian. www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/player/_/id/4278565/jahvon-blair |
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