hoyasaxa2003
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Nov 18, 2017 0:02:44 GMT -5
Our offensive possession time is currently 35th in the country and two seconds faster than last year (I believe our fastest year under JTIII). That's not slight. Overall pace might be close because teams are trying to slow the game down, but our offense is a lot faster. A few thoughts: - I realize it's all we have, but we have to be careful in comparing our team's stats after 2 games to our team's stats in previous years for an entire season. After Jacksonville, our tempo stats were actually under last season's numbers. Then the Mount St. Mary's game was faster, so it went the other way. - Yes, if we stay 35th in average offensive possession length that'll certainly be quicker than anything JT3 ever did. But, last year, we were 91st. So while that would be a good bit faster, last year wasn't slow. We may very well be faster this year on offense, and it definitely seems they are being coached that way. But after 2 games it's hard to say, plus it's a fairly safe bet that our possession length will increase when we play better teams. It's easier to hoist up a good shot against a bad team than a good one. - Thus far, our turnovers have been sky high. Given that these often happen toward the beginning of an offensive possession, it likely skews the numbers to make it appear more quick than it actually is. A good counterargument is that JT3's teams turned it over too. The big difference is that a lot of those turnovers came while passing in the half court offense, whereas under Ewing so far many of the turnovers seem to happen on the break. - As I've said before on HoyaTalk, take a look at the super fast teams, and almost all of them are bad teams. - Personally, I am most concerned about efficiency and effectiveness. It's not all about speed. An offense can be quick because of turnovers, as mentioned above, or taking and missing bad shots. And your defensive possessions can end quickly if you foul too much or simply let the other team score so quickly. If Ewing can speed things up efficiently, then I am all for it. |
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GIGAFAN99
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Post by GIGAFAN99 on Nov 18, 2017 0:40:59 GMT -5
Our offensive possession time is currently 35th in the country and two seconds faster than last year (I believe our fastest year under JTIII). That's not slight. Overall pace might be close because teams are trying to slow the game down, but our offense is a lot faster. A few thoughts: - I realize it's all we have, but we have to be careful in comparing our team's stats after 2 games to our team's stats in previous years for an entire season. After Jacksonville, our tempo stats were actually under last season's numbers. Then the Mount St. Mary's game was faster, so it went the other way. - Yes, if we stay 35th in average offensive possession length that'll certainly be quicker than anything JT3 ever did. But, last year, we were 91st. So while that would be a good bit faster, last year wasn't slow. We may very well be faster this year on offense, and it definitely seems they are being coached that way. But after 2 games it's hard to say, plus it's a fairly safe bet that our possession length will increase when we play better teams. It's easier to hoist up a good shot against a bad team than a good one. - Thus far, our turnovers have been sky high. Given that these often happen toward the beginning of an offensive possession, it likely skews the numbers to make it appear more quick than it actually is. A good counterargument is that JT3's teams turned it over too. The big difference is that a lot of those turnovers came while passing in the half court offense, whereas under Ewing so far many of the turnovers seem to happen on the break. - As I've said before on HoyaTalk, take a look at the super fast teams, and almost all of them are bad teams. - Personally, I am most concerned about efficiency and effectiveness. It's not all about speed. An offense can be quick because of turnovers, as mentioned above, or taking and missing bad shots. And your defensive possessions can end quickly if you foul too much or simply let the other team score so quickly. If Ewing can speed things up efficiently, then I am all for it. I responded to your comment on pace. Yeah, it's two games but you tried to act like nothing had changed. It has. And here's some of the top 20 fastest teams: USC, Florida, Creighton, Oklahoma, UCLA, San Diego St., Alabama. Will we be grouped with those teams end of year? We don't know how effective the offense is but to say it's not different or fast=ineffective is just wrong. So let's see what happens. |
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Nov 18, 2017 2:37:56 GMT -5
I've been watching and recording Gtown games since Alonzo's frosh year back when I was pretty much a kid hogging the family VCR. I've rewatched games, edited highlights and rewatched those over the years. At times I have rewatched highlights to get a better sense of the offense the team was running, to observe the execution of players or to simply enjoy special performances of individual players. This game against Mount Saint Mary is the first time I watched the highlights specifically to take in how a Hoya team broke the press. And what they did was deliver a masterclass. I don't care how bad the competition was in terms of talent, MSM's game plan is to stop teams with their pressures. A less talented team can cause disruptions like that of a more talented squad as long as they are committed to doing so. And working even more in MSM's favor was that the Hoyas' starting point guard went out early with foul troubles. Hoyas got the job done anyway.
Granted if a superior team attempted to press the Hoyas like that some of the results would have possibly been different. But that's not really the point. What matters was that the Hoyas actually had a game plan of their own in how to execute against such fullcourt pressure and it looked great. Off of the inbound the Hoyas would throw DECISIVE diagonal, forward passes to OPEN teammates who could then take a dribble or two before the defense caught up with them. Often after that another pass would be thrown to another open teammate who was typically in a position to score. Even guys who aren't traditional ballhandlers had to do their part by getting to a spot as the passer or the recipient of an outlet pass, sometimes dribbling a little in the process. No one ever looked fazed or panicked or out of position. Best of all in most of those scenarios the Hoyas made MSM pay by looking for the scoring opportunity once the press was broken (rather than pull the ball back out and use up time on the clock).
Again I don't care about the level of competition. My focus is on the execution. Execution is determined by coaching and practicing. You have less chance at executing if your prep for it is bad. Whether the Hoyas can be at least respectable in beating the press of the more talented teams remains to be seen. But at least I have confidence in that they know what they are doing in those scenarios. And that's refreshing.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 18, 2017 4:20:12 GMT -5
Couple thoughts
Re: pace (offensive),
If Scenario A is one where the ball is only passed around the perimeter and the possession results in a contested 3 after 20 seconds, and Scenario B is one where the possession starts with a high screen and roll, ball reversal, pass into the post, pass to short corner 3, reversal to top of the key for an open look 3 and takes 22 seconds, my preference would be for Scenario B.
Agree that pace isn’t everything and this is not an indictment of III, but understanding that the level of competition is poor, I’ve been encouraged by the minimal amount of dribbling so far in our offensive sets - unless it’s with a purpose,to the hoop. Also echo MCI’s thoughts on breaking the press. Haven’t seen much in the way of diagonal passing the last few years.
Now, if all that passing and drives to the hoop continually result in turnovers or blown layups, then it’s an issue.
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EtomicB
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Post by EtomicB on Nov 18, 2017 11:51:49 GMT -5
I've been watching and recording Gtown games since Alonzo's frosh year back when I was pretty much a kid hogging the family VCR. I've rewatched games, edited highlights and rewatched those over the years. At times I have rewatched highlights to get a better sense of the offense the team was running, to observe the execution of players or to simply enjoy special performances of individual players. This game against Mount Saint Mary is the first time I watched the highlights specifically to take in how a Hoya team broke the press. And what they did was deliver a masterclass. I don't care how bad the competition was in terms of talent, MSM's game plan is to stop teams with their pressures. A less talented team can cause disruptions like that of a more talented squad as long as they are committed to doing so. And working even more in MSM's favor was that the Hoyas' starting point guard went out early with foul troubles. Hoyas got the job done anyway. Granted if a superior team attempted to press the Hoyas like that some of the results would have possibly been different. But that's not really the point. What matters was that the Hoyas actually had a game plan of their own in how to execute against such fullcourt pressure and it looked great. Off of the inbound the Hoyas would throw DECISIVE diagonal, forward passes to OPEN teammates who could then take a dribble or two before the defense caught up with them. Often after that another pass would be thrown to another open teammate who was typically in a position to score. Even guys who aren't traditional ballhandlers had to do their part by getting to a spot as the passer or the recipient of an outlet pass, sometimes dribbling a little in the process. No one ever looked fazed or panicked or out of position. Best of all in most of those scenarios the Hoyas made MSM pay by looking for the scoring opportunity once the press was broken (rather than pull the ball back out and use up time on the clock). Again I don't care about the level of competition. My focus is on the execution. Execution is determined by coaching and practicing. You have less chance at executing if your prep for it is bad. Whether the Hoyas can be at least respectable in beating the press of the more talented teams remains to be seen. But at least I have confidence in that they know what they are doing in those scenarios. And that's refreshing. A wise man once said “everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth”.. Competition matters imo, MSM didn’t have the ability to punch Gtown in the mouth.. All presses aren’t the same so I’m not sure how you can be that confident going forward, the team did very well against the press in this game but that’s as far as I can take it until I see them p,ay better competition.. |
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MCIGuy
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Post by MCIGuy on Nov 18, 2017 19:35:47 GMT -5
A wise man once said “everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth”.. Competition matters imo, MSM didn’t have the ability to punch Gtown in the mouth.. All presses aren’t the same so I’m not sure how you can be that confident going forward, the team did very well against the press in this game but that’s as far as I can take it until I see them p,ay better competition.. Actually that dude was never all that wise considering the life choices he made. But still it looks as if you have your own narrative that you must feed because I addressed the level of competition and how it didn't matter in my post. My argument was that the team looked well versed in the technique of how to beat the press. This doesn't mean they will be so effective at beating the press of much better opponents, but in terms of spacing, passing and aggressiveness the Hoyas looked better in this game against the press than any of III's teams when he faced such defenses. And I include games in which III's Hoya teams had far more talent (NBA talent in fact) than their inferior opponents but still looked shaky in executing. It's like shooting threes. The first thing that matters is not the level of defender a long-range shooter may face; what matters is first that the shooter must develop the correct form on his release as well as the needed spin on the ball. Once the shooter has that then he can go about improving/adjusting his game to get his shot off more quickly for the eventuality in facing superior defenders. But the quick release is only useful AFTER the shooter develops a reliable shooting form. The Hoyas becoming more skilled and prepared to handle a superior pressing team only comes into play AFTER they learn how to execute against pressure correctly in the first place. |
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jwp91
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Post by jwp91 on Nov 19, 2017 17:45:05 GMT -5
For anyone who missed the game here's the entire game on youtube: Thank you for posting this. I missed the game and enjoyed watching it. Anyone know if yesterday’s game is posted anywhere? |
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Post by HoyaSinceBirth on Nov 19, 2017 21:18:27 GMT -5
For anyone who missed the game here's the entire game on youtube: Thank you for posting this. I missed the game and enjoyed watching it. Anyone know if yesterday’s game is posted anywhere? Sadly no. I think this youtube channel will only have the games if it's on FS2 or FS1 or that level of channel. Doesn't look like they'll carry any of the FSN games. Which is too bad since those are the ones we really need. |
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Post by veilside21 on Nov 20, 2017 2:32:43 GMT -5
i dont know if this was posted already a picture of michael jordan  |
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hoyasaxa2003
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Post by hoyasaxa2003 on Nov 20, 2017 11:46:50 GMT -5
I responded to your comment on pace. Yeah, it's two games but you tried to act like nothing had changed. It has. And here's some of the top 20 fastest teams: USC, Florida, Creighton, Oklahoma, UCLA, San Diego St., Alabama. Will we be grouped with those teams end of year? We don't know how effective the offense is but to say it's not different or fast=ineffective is just wrong. So let's see what happens. I acknowledge my original post was off a bit - while I was correct that our overall pace is similar to last year's (143rd this year versus 147th last year), you are absolutely right that the offensive pace is quicker. Right now, we are 32nd in offensive possession length, and last year we were 91st. So that's a big change. My sense is that as we face better competition that'll come down a bit, but Ewing is obviously pushing a faster pace on offense. It'll be interesting to see what happens when we face real competition. |
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